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  1. #1

    1 Year VIP Discount prices - are they correct?

    I refer to: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...aign=201406VIP

    As of the time of typing $79.99 = £47.10.

    Looking at historical trends in the exchange rate there has been no time during the life of the game that $79.99 has equalled £71.99.

    If we convert from € then €63.99 only equals £51.13.

    In fact £71.99 at current exchange rates equals $122.21.


    Can anyone at Turbine justify why we in the UK should be discriminated against in economic terms?
    It can't be hardware overheads because all the Servers are now State-side.

    Why should UK citizens be asked to pay one and a half times more for the same product as US citizens do?

    Looking at the HMRC site I can see no reason why UK taxes would lead to such a cost disparity.

    All The Best

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    268
    I am not Turbine.

    However, one thing I have seen when purchasing things on travel is the Value Added Tax of VAT in England and the EU. The US price does not include any similar taxes. We end up getting a surprise at the checkout when they add the sales taxes in. Since I live in wonder Tax Land (some know it is California) where the sales tax is 10% I would need to add that to the total to see what I would pay. I hope this helps a little bit. In general TAXES suck.

    Tosaf
    Tosaf, Founder Covenant Knights, Guardian,

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tosaf View Post
    I am not Turbine.

    However, one thing I have seen when purchasing things on travel is the Value Added Tax of VAT in England and the EU. The US price does not include any similar taxes. We end up getting a surprise at the checkout when they add the sales taxes in. Since I live in wonder Tax Land (some know it is California) where the sales tax is 10% I would need to add that to the total to see what I would pay. I hope this helps a little bit. In general TAXES suck.

    Tosaf
    VAT if it applies, and I am not certain it does, would only take the cost up to $96, or £56.55.

    Not the £71.99 Turbine is asking.

    All The Best

  4. #4
    Is there anything stopping you from paying in U.S. dollars? Your credit card will probably give you a much better deal on the currency conversion.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    Is there anything stopping you from paying in U.S. dollars? Your credit card will probably give you a much better deal on the currency conversion.
    I don't possess a Credit Card, I'm not in the habit of spending money I don't have.


    All The Best

  6. #6
    The prices were adjusted: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...%E2%80%93-29th

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

    We'll be refunding anyone that paid the higher GBP price, the difference, within the next 3-5 business days.
    Last edited by QuartermasterU; Jun 16 2014 at 05:26 PM.

  7. #7
    There are two additional charges that Americans do not see:

    1) Turbine uses its own exchange rate to convert pounds and Euros to dollars. You do not get as many dollars as you are expecting. I suspect this situation is caused by two additional issues:

    a) Turbine is unable to do a dynamic conversion. Turbine has to set the price high enough to cover any strengthening of the Dollar.

    b) I have a feeling that Turbine's bank and payment processor charge much higher fees to handle foreign currencies than what you are expecting.

    My family have found it much more cost effective for us to do currency conversions in Europe using a European bank when dealing with a hard currencies like Dollars, Euros and Pounds. USA banks charge more. Soft currencies like Argentina Pesos - It is best to import the dollars to Argentina - do the conversion locally bypassing the official channels.

    Good news is that it is not as bad as it was 30 years ago. I have no very fond memories of getting a 10-20% penalty over the Frankfort rate. Plus a minimum of 50 dollars flat charge. If the Frankfort rate was 2 Euros (Note Euros did not exist back then) for a dollar and wanted a hundred Euros which I would expect to cost me 50 dollars. I would pay $50 + $60 = $110.

    2) Turbine does not use your country's VAT rate. Instead Turbine uses the highest country VAT rate in Europe. Remits the VAT to either France or Germany whose is responsible for delivering the correct amount to your country.

    Here in the USA, sales tax like VAT is typically paid once a month. Turbine may be converting all of your payment including the VAT to Dollars. When Turbine has to pay the VAT once a month, I suspect the French or Germans want Euros. Turbine faced with having to pay for another currency conversion. If this situation is true, Turbine would require you pay for the double conversion.

    That is another reason for having access to a European bank. You can leave some of the money over there to pay local costs. As previously mentioned you have to build in some of protection against the movement of the exchange rates. One of the companies I worked for bought currency protection so that they did not get an unexpected sting if the exchange rate went the wrong way.
    Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Jun 16 2014 at 05:45 PM.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Egilric View Post
    I don't possess a Credit Card, I'm not in the habit of spending money I don't have.
    This is a pretty outdated idea of credit cards. Nowadays a person is foolish not to use a credit card, especially for online purchases. Usually they give you a "cash back bonus", so the price you're paying is effectively 1-2% lower than if you paid with another method. And if you are a victim of fraud, it's usually a lot easier to get your money back from a credit card company than a bank. If you pay the balance in full each month, you're not paying any interest, and you're not "spending money you don't have".

    The only people who shouldn't use credit cards are those who simply lack the self discipline to live within their means and pay it off each month.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    This is a pretty outdated idea of credit cards. Nowadays a person is foolish not to use a credit card, especially for online purchases. Usually they give you a "cash back bonus", so the price you're paying is effectively 1-2% lower than if you paid with another method. And if you are a victim of fraud, it's usually a lot easier to get your money back from a credit card company than a bank. If you pay the balance in full each month, you're not paying any interest, and you're not "spending money you don't have".

    The only people who shouldn't use credit cards are those who simply lack the self discipline to live within their means and pay it off each month.
    You get the same benefits with a debit card these days, and don't risk being in debt if your circumstances change. I am totally with Egilric on this!

    But back to the topic, it seems Turbine have fixed the issue so I can now go look at the prices without having a heart attack

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterU View Post
    The prices were adjusted: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...%E2%80%93-29th

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

    We'll be refunding anyone that paid the higher GBP price, the difference, within the next 3-5 business days.
    Good to hear... I just wish I'd had a crystal ball to see this discount coming before buying my brother a Year's game time and the expansions for his birthday last week-end
    Taramthir of the Laiquendi Order
    May the Light guide your steps till next we meet

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterU View Post
    The prices were adjusted: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...%E2%80%93-29th

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

    We'll be refunding anyone that paid the higher GBP price, the difference, within the next 3-5 business days.
    While from a consumer point of view I am happy that this "correction" has taken place I do still have concerns.

    Even at this new reduced rate UK citizens are still paying 35% more in $US terms than US Citizens do.

    I understand that Turbine will incur some transaction costs, and may be contractually obligated to use an average over time exchange rate, rather than the current spot rate.

    But I can see no reason why that should equate to a 35% jump in price.

    I could easily understand a 10% increase in price; and I would probably, but begrudgingly, accept a 15% increase in price.

    But 35%?

    Really?

    All The Best

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The United States of America
    Posts
    815
    Quote Originally Posted by Calhil View Post
    You get the same benefits with a debit card these days, and don't risk being in debt if your circumstances change. I am totally with Egilric on this!

    But back to the topic, it seems Turbine have fixed the issue so I can now go look at the prices without having a heart attack
    Not true. A debit card takes your money. A credit card does not. If someone steals your debit card, you will be left with nothing and have to do a lot of proving to get it back...and may not. Credit cards do not take your money. You have to pay a bill and if you dispute the charge successfully, no money changes hands. There are plenty of problems with people using cards at gas pumps in the south that the cards are being "stolen" with devices. Ask the people who used debit cards versus those that used credit cards how it went for them.

    As someone mentioned, you simply have to make sure you treat your credit card AS you do your debit card and stay within that budget. The "cash back" or points bonuses are good, you still keep your money in your account accruing interest, you don't get charged fees if you don't carry a balance and aren't late, you accrue a credit score, which whether you think you'll use it or not, you NEED, you aren't responsible for charges and in some cases, merchants charge you less, not more.

    Pay cash or use credit, never debit cards.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardineck View Post
    Not true. A debit card takes your money. A credit card does not. If someone steals your debit card, you will be left with nothing and have to do a lot of proving to get it back...and may not. Credit cards do not take your money. You have to pay a bill and if you dispute the charge successfully, no money changes hands. There are plenty of problems with people using cards at gas pumps in the south that the cards are being "stolen" with devices. Ask the people who used debit cards versus those that used credit cards how it went for them.

    As someone mentioned, you simply have to make sure you treat your credit card AS you do your debit card and stay within that budget. The "cash back" or points bonuses are good, you still keep your money in your account accruing interest, you don't get charged fees if you don't carry a balance and aren't late, you accrue a credit score, which whether you think you'll use it or not, you NEED, you aren't responsible for charges and in some cases, merchants charge you less, not more.

    Pay cash or use credit, never debit cards.
    I guess debit cards are not as good in the US as they are here in the UK then.

    I know what risks and benefits come with my debit card, and what risks and benefits come with a credit card. I choose the former. Sorry if that disappoints you

    Oh and yes, debit cards take your money. That is traditionally called 'paying' for something lol. I much prefer to pay for something when I have the money, other than risking future debt. Circumstances can change in the blink of an eye and suddenly those monthly payments are unaffordable.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Calhil View Post
    You get the same benefits with a debit card these days, and don't risk being in debt if your circumstances change.
    This is not true, at least in the U.S., although I may have incorrectly generalized my statement to other countries.

    To the O.P., I think at this point, the remaining price difference must be due to market research that shows different behavior for Turbine's U.K. customers vs. its U.S. customers. I.e., revenue is maximized at a lower price in the U.S. than in the U.K., because of greater price elasticity of demand, or just because U.K. customers are used to paying more for such things.

    Apparently the risk that U.K. customers will see the lower U.S. price and react with anger is small.
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval

  15. #15
    Here's a handy guide for U.K. consumers about the advantages and disadvantages of credit cards and debit cards:http://www.theukcardsassociation.org...right_card.asp
    Thurallor, Warden of Landroval

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thurallor View Post
    Here's a handy guide for U.K. consumers about the advantages and disadvantages of credit cards and debit cards:http://www.theukcardsassociation.org...right_card.asp
    Um....no thanks, don't want a credit card, don't need a credit card, please do not call this number again *hangs up*.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Calhil View Post
    You get the same benefits with a debit card these days, and don't risk being in debt if your circumstances change.
    This is my exact experience. Was comfortably employed, could afford a Credit Card because I always paid it off at the end of the month. Went on holiday, picked up a blood-clot on a long-haul flight, was unable to work for over 12 months, took over two and half years to pay down the credit card bill.

    All The Best

  18. #18
    Oh well, just subbed to SW:ToR for 6 months.

    Their exchange rate between $ and £ almost exactly matches the actual exchange rate.

    Not getting ripped off by them like I would here.

    All The Best

 

 

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