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Thread: Say vs Emotes

  1. #1

    Say vs Emotes

    I've noticed a recent trend where roleplayers are putting their dialogue into the emote channel, does anyone know why? It makes it much harder to read and seems to counter-intuitive to me.

  2. #2
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    You probably have had some people originally from Landroval visiting your server (and Landroval has had some visitors from Laurelin). A lot of heavier RPers use /e for both description and dialogue on Landy.

    Whether it is counter-intuitive or not, though, is another debate entirely *grin*. As Laurelin is your own server with its own culture upon it, I suppose you Laurelin folks can decide if it is worth addressing visitors to not do such a thing. On Landroval both styles are used more or less equally.

    Best of luck
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  3. #3
    Well it's counter intuitive no matter which side of the pond you're in my view: There is a channel specifically for dialogue and one for emotes, I cannot fathom why anyone thought putting it all in the emote channel was a good idea. I'm curious what the logic is. I've never came across that approach in any MMORPG which had two channels.

  4. #4
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    For many, they view it as better than /e and /say both used in one reply because it allows more flexibility with how you write your whole response without having to resort to /e , /say , /e , /say , /e to just get one reply out, which means interruptions before you are done emoting happen a good deal less. So it is definitely the flexibility of writing that makes it attractive to those who adore description in between dialogue.

    It also makes it possible to describe the words themselves with an adjective that is not /say. You can yell, whisper, mumble, shout, spit out, snarl... the list goes on. And when it comes to reading it in a log (as many, many people do love to log their RPs to post on the web), it is much smoother to read it as 'Bob yells, 'Stop it!' rather than Bob yells: [enter] Bob says, 'Stop it!'

    So in my opinion it is not counter-intuitive at all for smooth reading. However, I respect the other point of view and I personally use both styles depending on the RP, or who I am with, or where I am, etc.
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  5. #5
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    It's seems strange to me speak in emote mode, too, but c'est la vie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guvadan View Post
    It makes it much harder to read...
    If you wish to make your emote mode more visible, right click on the desired tab, e.g., 'General', click on 'Change Text Colours', scroll down to 'Emote', then select a colour on the right. If desired, you may also change the size of the text.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by oldbadgerbrock View Post
    It's seems strange to me speak in emote mode, too, but c'est la vie.


    If you wish to make your emote mode more visible, right click on the desired tab, e.g., 'General', click on 'Change Text Colours', scroll down to 'Emote', then select a colour on the right. If desired, you may also change the size of the text.
    They might also be referring to what some of us call "The Wall of Text". Changing the text color or size won't fix that.

    It's one thing to see/read short bursts with the occasionally longer bit here and there. It's another thing to see nothing as you're waiting for what you think will be a short reply, then the maximum allowed lines in emote show up just as you think the person must be either afk or crashed. (Often ending with a + to signify more is coming!) There are some nights at the pony where everyone is wall texting, and it does get really hard to muck through.

    As one can easily guess, I'm not a fan of the wall style. I understand why some do it, and even RP with folks who use it, but it's not my preference.

    Getting back to the OP, many people fall into the habit of using the emote channel for say for two other reasons than that listed above:
    1) it doesn't get affected by the say channel bug
    2) it reaches farther than the say channel
    Last edited by Gaming_Gal; Aug 06 2013 at 09:32 AM.

  7. #7
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    I can't speak for the ones actually doing it, right now, but back, "long ago", before MMOs, there were these online games called MUSHes. That was how we posed (emoted). You were expected to write a decent length, descriptive paragraph that included both your actions and your dialogue. For someone like me, that habit is very hard to kick. It also makes logs look nicer and easier to edit, IMO.

    I do agree that, unless you're in a more private setting with few people, that putting out the Giant Novels is spammy. For example, in the Pony, I tend to keep to 2 lines.
    Favorite Dev Quote from 2009: [b]Graal:[/b] The lack of an instant threat catch up skill is one of the differences in tanking between Wardens and Guardians, just like Wardens dont have a easily used forced taunt. It is unlikely, but not impossible that this will change. Bottom line...Dont die.

  8. #8
    Essentially it comes down to a 'wall-of-text' type feeling, which makes following the roleplay difficult. By putting dialogue and emotes indifferent channels, I can more easily follow what is going on. Recently I've found myself missing important details in the whilst trying to follow the 'all in emote' type roleplayers. So much so that I have started to resist interacting with them because it's too much work following them.

  9. #9
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    I've never liked this style, in my 13 years of MMO roleplaying. Not bragging, just wanting to give a time perspective.

    It makes roleplaying one long wait, in my opinion -- waiting for ridiculously long descriptions when short phrases will do. Roleplaying should be a give and take, as smooth as a face-to-face conversation. Don't you hate long-winded people who go on and on? That's how I feel when I encounter this.

    That having been said, I do love the use of one of the finest tools the LotRO devs gave us: the ability to put an animated emote into our own emote text. Used sparingly, this adds a great amount of realism.

  10. #10
    Personally I sometimes find it necessary to put my character's dialogue in their emote, simply put just so my character's action and words flow better.

  11. #11
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    Well, "sometimes" is good, as long as it's not too long, in my opinion.

  12. #12
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    Well... I dunno, I think people should use /say when they're saying something and /e when they're emoting something. And I really kind of don't like it (I mean no offense to anyone, just my opinion here) when I see people RPing and there's like 5 lines of text in one message. Doesn't it take a lot of time to type? Meaning the people youre Rping with are just standing there like *tumbleweed*. Personally I find it much more entertaining if people keep it at least somehow simple. Because in the end, no matter how many words you use to describe the "emotions" of your character, in your RP fellow's head it's going to be pretty simplified. At least I like to think so.

    but to reply to the OPs post; Say definitely > /e, unless your'e actually, I dunno, [emoting something.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eogion View Post
    Doesn't it take a lot of time to type? Meaning the people youre Rping with are just standing there like *tumbleweed*. Personally I find it much more entertaining if people keep it at least somehow simple.
    I have to disagree with you there, I find role play to be much more flavorful if the "actors" be as detailed as possible, though simplifying things might be necessary at some points due to lack of inspiration or time constraints ultimately it will probably result in stale rp if you over simplify things too much. The whole "standing there like tumbleweed" is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of role playing in an mmorpg and most of the people who dedicate themselves to rp on this server have learned to deal with it by simply being patient.

    But in the end it comes down to preference of how you like to role play.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supergrunt8 View Post
    I have to disagree with you there, I find role play to be much more flavorful if the "actors" be as detailed as possible, though simplifying things might be necessary at some points due to lack of inspiration or time constraints ultimately it will probably result in stale rp if you over simplify things too much. The whole "standing there like tumbleweed" is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of role playing in an mmorpg and most of the people who dedicate themselves to rp on this server have learned to deal with it by simply being patient.

    But in the end it comes down to preference of how you like to role play.
    Well those are all good points and I do agree with them, I'm not saying RPing should be limited to one sentence per message, and as a mmorpg rper of several years, sometimes it's frustrating for me to see people write a large bunch of text about how they sit down and a fair breeze softly tickles their hair as they do so. (lol, okay I'm being overly dramatic here, I apologise) but still. As long as everyone has fun!

    EDIT: also adding that as a non native english speaker, even if generally my english is pretty good, I don't have the same vocabulary or understanding of grammar as a native and often I feel a bit dumb when I'm not able to be as creative with my rping :P

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Supergrunt8 View Post
    I have to disagree with you there, I find role play to be much more flavorful if the "actors" be as detailed as possible, though simplifying things might be necessary at some points due to lack of inspiration or time constraints ultimately it will probably result in stale rp if you over simplify things too much. The whole "standing there like tumbleweed" is an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of role playing in an mmorpg and most of the people who dedicate themselves to rp on this server have learned to deal with it by simply being patient.

    But in the end it comes down to preference of how you like to role play.
    Longer dialogue and emotes does not make for better quality or even more detailed roleplay by default, it simply makes for longer dialogue and emotes. I am not saying there is not a time and place for those wall-of-text emotes, but for the most part I find myself less involved in the other persons roleplay if I am constantly having to wait for them to pen a novel. Or even worse, having to try pick out the dialogue hidden within a string of emotes. I certainly don't think 'oh wow this is so detailed and flavourful'.

    You're right that it comes down to preference, and ultimately people can choose to roleplay in whatever manner they wish. But people can also choose not to roleplay with those who make interaction difficult. If someone is being especially verbose and not following the standard practice of using /say for dialogue and /e for emotes, they may find people like myself are less inclined to interact with them. Being sociable means having to adhere to social norms after all.

    I know I am not the only person who feels this way, as several other roleplayers have mentioned it. It's very much a recent trend too, it's not something that I noticed 12 months ago.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guvadan View Post
    It's very much a recent trend too, it's not something that I noticed 12 months ago.
    I played on Landroval originally and I kept running into the wall-of-text-style more often than not. (2+ years ago). But yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels this way too, but I definitely don't mean to say longer text RP = bad! :] I guess the bottom line of what I'm saying is that I use different font colours for /e and /s because they help me separate them from one another.

  17. #17
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    This thread is not actually about /say vs /emotes, from what I can gather. It's about an actual writing style. If someone is one of the type that I've terms The Narrative Teleposer (in which you get 2-3 paragraphs of tons of descriptives that you can't use ICly), then even if they're using /say and /emote to differentiate, they're still going give you 2-3 giant paragraphs of it to read.

    Typing speed is also not limited by /say or /emote. A fast typist will put out a paragraph in less time than a slow typist (or one who's alt-tabbed or multi-boxing) will take for one line of text.

    There's definitely room the varying styles of writing, although I do agree that Walls Of Text in crowded RP area are rude and spammy, especially if it's the type just describing how their hair moves, the gown flows, the tilts of their wrists etc. If it's a private or semi-private scene in a non-crowded place, then it's up to whatever the people RPing like.
    Favorite Dev Quote from 2009: [b]Graal:[/b] The lack of an instant threat catch up skill is one of the differences in tanking between Wardens and Guardians, just like Wardens dont have a easily used forced taunt. It is unlikely, but not impossible that this will change. Bottom line...Dont die.

  18. #18
    Might be a bit late here Guv, but I find myself using both equally. Sometimes it just makes sense. For example:

    Cyras shakes his head, frowning.
    [Cyras]: Wenches be trippin' yo.

    and

    Cyras shakes his head, "Wenches be trippin'," he snarls in disgust, "yo."

    Both work, it's flavour certainly, but one's a bit more... Florid? Artistic? It's definitely a choice and the latter can really be used to add a bit of spark to a bland sentence. People who speak purely through emotes, however, deserve a sharp pain in the urethra.

    Quote Originally Posted by Person above me
    There's definitely room the varying styles of writing, although I do agree that Walls Of Text in crowded RP area are rude and spammy, especially if it's the type just describing how their hair moves, the gown flows, the tilts of their wrists etc.
    Purple prose is equal parts amusing, intriguing, and painfully boring.

  19. #19
    Speaking as a Landroval ... visitor(?) ... tourist (?) ... to Laurelin, I agree completely with the wall-of-text aspect mentioned above. Trust me, it annoys plenty of us on Landroval as well for all the reasons cited. But I end up /emoting much of my dialogue for one simple reason: It is the easiest way to describe /how/ I am saying what I say. Vocal description is part of nearly every character I RP. So, yes, you will likely see emotes from me such as:

    Thoronmir mumbles, "I wish Butterbur would start offering oatmeal-cranberry cookies on the menu."

    Thoronmir growls, "I can't believe that Hobbit ate the last oatmeal-cranberry cookie."

    Thoronmir whines, "I really want an oatmeal-cranberry cookie!"

    Thoronmir spits out his words, "That does it! I'm moving to the Shire, where they know how to make a decent oatmeal-cranberry cookie."

    I also have a few (e.g., maybe three) ;aliases that combine a specific animation with dialogue. For example:

    /rude "Now I will end you!" (which allows me to combine the throat-slit animation with my words).

    In my opinion (and it's all a matter of opinion), unless the action described in the emote relates directly to what is being said, yes, keep the emote and the dialogue separate.

  20. #20
    I agree with Guvadan. The mass amount of irrelevant text we need to read through due to emotes being extra long with quotations in them makes it difficult for me roleplay and it is becoming quite annoying.

    When I emote I usually: '/e leans his head back as he laughs mirthfully mirthfully, then brings forth his head once more and speaks, however tilting his head curiously after his words:' '/say Nay, now plainly tell me of whither you hail.'

    I don't seen any trouble with that, it makes life much easier for all other roleplayers abroad.

  21. #21
    To be clear, the post was originally about putting dialogue in emotes. That is what I specifically wished to highlight as an issue. The long emotes is a corollary of that, since the addition of dialogue to emotes does make them longer by default.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wythwindle View Post
    I agree with Guvadan. The mass amount of irrelevant text we need to read through due to emotes being extra long with quotations in them makes it difficult for me roleplay and it is becoming quite annoying.
    I tent to use simple emotes so that I can add a bit of description to what the character says. Are they completely serious, mocking ext. Things like that can be hard to convey with just text, adding a little description helps. Or even what the character is doing when they speak. (Neluihel tilted her head sideways, running a hand over her chin "Yes" she said meekly. "I suppose I can understand that.") for example. I can understand some people's desire to post the emote and the say seperately but with something that small I think posting both at once can also save time. Not much perhaps but every little helps.

    I do agree though, adding unnecessary things annoys me, people emoting what their character is thinking about for example. It might help me, the player, understand but if it cannot be used by the character then perhaps it should not be in the emote. Send it in a tell or by some other means. And this is all made worse when it is not a simple emote but a long wall of text. I also think that not every bit of dialog needs and emote. If the character isn't doing anything then I'll simply use /say. Unless I need the characters words to carry farther then a /say would. Across a kin hall for example on an rp night.

    Now that having been said I do not mind a longer emote at the beginning of rp, if someone is describing the scene for example. That can actually be helpful. And if someone wants to add a few quick lines of dialog at the end I can deal with that. So I suppose it isn't even the occasional wall of text that bothers me so much as when that's the only thing people post. Especially when its full of information that cannot be used by other characters.

  23. #23
    Late reply in this thread, but stumbled upon it and this is a issue to me.
    I finding it really hard to follow when all I see are emotes in the chattab.
    When people use say, it is much easier to see when different people speak, in emotes, name and text is the same colour.

    Instead of doing it like: /e Sit down and take a sip at her mead "hello there"
    Can people not do it all in say and use ** for emote? It is so much easier to see and follow and keep attention at the person I want to converse with when there is a crowd.

    *sit down and take a sip at her mead* hello there


    In the end it is all about preference and like someone said, it is about mine preference, I have already activly chosen not to engage in RP with people just because they use walls of emote text and because I found it hard to differentiate what people is saying when it all becomes a grey blur.
    When my chat window do fill up and I get a hard time to follow I usually think it is the same as when I am out at a place IRL that is crowded and with a lot of noise. But it is different with these grey walls, specially when two people really fill the chatwindow ALL THE TIME with grey text, it is annoying and a immersion breaker to me.


    and that is my opinion, you do not have to share it
    Last edited by Heleywen; Apr 01 2014 at 02:00 AM.

  24. #24
    Now that I have found the right words I will explain my perception of the matter.(No, it did not take me several months)


    In my opinion dialogue in an emote is a real inconvenience to other players. Understand that we may already have some troubles with keeping up what is happening in RP, while trying to remain aware of all the RP about us. Especially folk like myself who are a bit sluggish at reading.

    To me it is important to regard others about me, it is public RP and it is not fair for me to go about as though I own the place, now is it? But that is not the point. Many players do this without really even knowing that they're inconveniencing other players with their walls of text that we can see from the West Gate of Bree all the way to the Boar fountain(Obviously an over-exaggeration). And is it really so hard to post your dialogue in /say? There are very seldom times when I would utilise /emote for dialogue with quotes in them, but sometimes I do feel that it is necessary to give myself the full effect of my character's actions and his dialogue coordinating.

    However, I do not appreciate this for example:

    '/e laughs, "Oh, really? I am Barliman Butterbur, land-lord of the Prancing Pony Inn and I often forget these things. They say that those queer Rangers are comin' in here more often, and see, I think they're up to no good. Always lurking abroad and telling queer tales of strange Kings that were here 'bouts long time ago. Now, I don't doubt their lore and what not, but I think it's just down-right queer!"

    That, please, I ask kindly: please DO NOT do it. Simply as there is a single action the emote and the rest is all dialogue that will clutter up my chat-box even more than necessary. Then there are those who also take their dialogue into a new message and the giant wall of text persists. This is very inconvenient to me.

    There are times when emotes like these have become so over-bearing that I have put people into my ignore list.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wythwindle View Post

    In my opinion dialogue in an emote is a real inconvenience to other players. Understand that we may already have some troubles with keeping up what is happening in RP, while trying to remain aware of all the RP about us. Especially folk like myself who are a bit sluggish at reading.

    That, please, I ask kindly: please DO NOT do it. Simply as there is a single action the emote and the rest is all dialogue that will clutter up my chat-box even more than necessary. Then there are those who also take their dialogue into a new message and the giant wall of text persists. This is very inconvenient to me.

    There are times when emotes like these have become so over-bearing that I have put people into my ignore list.
    I hope you're on Laurelin, then, where that is the style. I come from a long background of MUSHing, where the combined text/dialogue was the standard. That said, when I'm in a public place and there's a lot of RP, I keep my emote to 2-lines or less. Nobody needs the giant life-story, descriptive narrative emote in a busy setting.

    Using /ignore is fine, though. I do it myself, if I'm RPing where there's a lot of dancers and I need to not see the 20 lines of "X dances like an elf."
    Favorite Dev Quote from 2009: [b]Graal:[/b] The lack of an instant threat catch up skill is one of the differences in tanking between Wardens and Guardians, just like Wardens dont have a easily used forced taunt. It is unlikely, but not impossible that this will change. Bottom line...Dont die.

 

 
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