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  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by headhunted View Post
    I probably should have broadened my examples of how this very often plays out in PvMP. Indeed I am usually the one being focused, and so I have to stay somewhat mobile while trying to avoid the countless disarms, silences, fears, stuns, and interrupts. PvP healing just simply isn't something that is meant to be stationary, and that's probably why defiler's do so well in most circumstances *winks at Encornado*. I rarely, and I mean really really really rarely find a point in time in which I can afford to, or even successfully cast a 7.5s RW channel in PvP. I would even go out on a limb to call is useless/pointless in PvP.

    This wouldn't be too pressing of an issue if it wasn't that most creep DPS classes have relatively potent AoE attacks, and AoE bleeds. If you throw 1-2 reavers and 1-2 spiders into a fight, everyone is going to be getting hit pretty hard, even if they aren't on the RAT. Will people drop just because of this? Sometimes. But more often than not what happens is the RK healer has to focus his/her entire effort into healing the RAT target, and doesn't have enough time to dish out extra heals. Trying to keep WoH on people to account for this is not only wasteful in terms of power and time, but it is also very distracting as keeping even 3 separate tiers of WoH without easy access to RW is a mentally consuming chore. And more often than not when you can't keep a person in your group above 70% health continuously, they will be switched to and nuked very quickly. Creeps are like sharks. Show them some blood, and they frenzy.

    Balancing PvP in a game is not just about balancing a certain class relative to it's counterparts. It's also about balancing interactions between classes, and accounting for the types of situations that will occur often in regular gameplay. Buffing RW (or even just increasing the tick rate) can help solve this very common issue.
    Lol, I have no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks for the insight though! I'm pumped to get my RK to 95 and get whooped in PvP hahaha. Thank goodness for bubbles though, right?!

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by headhunted View Post
    I probably should have broadened my examples of how this very often plays out in PvMP. Indeed I am usually the one being focused, and so I have to stay somewhat mobile while trying to avoid the countless disarms, silences, fears, stuns, and interrupts. PvP healing just simply isn't something that is meant to be stationary, and that's probably why defiler's do so well in most circumstances *winks at Encornado*. I rarely, and I mean really really really rarely find a point in time in which I can afford to, or even successfully cast a 7.5s RW channel in PvP. I would even go out on a limb to call is useless/pointless in PvP.

    This wouldn't be too pressing of an issue if it wasn't that most creep DPS classes have relatively potent AoE attacks, and AoE bleeds. If you throw 1-2 reavers and 1-2 spiders into a fight, everyone is going to be getting hit pretty hard, even if they aren't on the RAT. Will people drop just because of this? Sometimes. But more often than not what happens is the RK healer has to focus his/her entire effort into healing the RAT target, and doesn't have enough time to dish out extra heals. Trying to keep WoH on people to account for this is not only wasteful in terms of power and time, but it is also very distracting as keeping even 3 separate tiers of WoH without easy access to RW is a mentally consuming chore. And more often than not when you can't keep a person in your group above 70% health continuously, they will be switched to and nuked very quickly. Creeps are like sharks. Show them some blood, and they frenzy.

    Balancing PvP in a game is not just about balancing a certain class relative to it's counterparts. It's also about balancing interactions between classes, and accounting for the types of situations that will occur often in regular gameplay. Buffing RW (or even just increasing the tick rate) can help solve this very common issue.
    Very accurate

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    I thought we already could crit, just not dev? I am probably wrong and fwiw the damage reduction does not sound like it's going to be slightly
    I worry about this, too. While I do think it hits too hard, there are a number of things that hit too hard atm. If you look on the forums, there are FAR more threads where people have noted the OPness of things like Impale or immediate skills that let a warg get off 8 attacks in a second. Again, I do agree SW's damage needs to come down, but it needs to be looked at in the context of other changes as well, and I do not think singling RKs out for a dps nerf is a good idea. Nerf it too much, and you'll likely see fire RKs disappear from the Moors (just as a lot of other freeps already have).

    People have different opinions about the affects of U13 on balance, but I think one thing is undeniable...... as a creep friend said, "it sure wasn't good for business!" I recently transferred off the server I played on for two years because u13 completely killed the action there. I checked around in the forums and messaged people on other servers, and found pretty much the same thing. I transferred to BW, because action was dying or dead everywhere else from what I could tell. And, what did I find there? Logged in, ran down the front steps of GV, and found six FoTM defilers supporting a whole bunch of BAs and two sets of multi-boxing weavers. So, when it comes to nerfing RK dps without balancing other things as well ....... why? Frankly, I'd put u13 in the same category as HD. Both resulted in lots of players leaving the game. If there are stats that indicate otherwise, I'd love to see them. From personal experience, though, more than half the people I was playing with in November, and had played with for several years, are gone now.

    Anxious to see what the next to level cap increases bring to the game. Hopefully, they'll be changes that bring people back instead of causing still more to leave.
    Last edited by Nouri; Jun 09 2014 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    The SH change is for solo/dps RKs moreso than healers.
    This is indeed a very nice change for DPS RKs that will give them a bit more survivability. When a warg can macro away a third of your health you before you can even break the first stun, it will certainly help.

  5. #155
    And please give a look at 'Prelude to Hope', healing 56-60 morale per tick. It's too weak.

  6. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Fulgurix View Post
    And please give a look at 'Prelude to Hope', healing 56-60 morale per tick. It's too weak.
    indeed , and give us some rotation for healing skills

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by LorenNell View Post
    indeed , and give us some rotation for healing skills
    no rotation

    the attemp to implement a rotation into the RK healing is one reason why we are in a bad spot
    comboing skills is ok like bubble + EfA to react to certain situations (as long as it isnt the main fokus)
    but a rotation in healing takes all flexibility from you which is bad

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Malganis_Lefay View Post
    no rotation

    the attemp to implement a rotation into the RK healing is one reason why we are in a bad spot
    comboing skills is ok like bubble + EfA to react to certain situations (as long as it isnt the main fokus)
    but a rotation in healing takes all flexibility from you which is bad
    I have to disagree with this. While healing, only under superb/very predictable circumstances can a healer achieve a true "healing rotation" - with exact skills following each other in a predetermined pattern. However, just like how a DPS class needs a general dps rotation to follow/aim to achieve in combat, a healer must have a general outline, or even just a theme to the healing in order to keep HPS normalized and to be able to deal with the expected damage. While I am sure most of us would prefer to not go back to the spamming MV days, I must admit that having the ability to use MV as liberally as we did allow for much greater healing dependability, and the easy transition allowed for the RK healer to adjust to a situation, knock off a couple of cooldowns, and return to the original plan.

    Healing situations are, in every sense, much more unpredictable and tougher to adapt to than DPS situations. DPSers can always (unless when doing PvE and all damage has to be stopped) continue their rotations and achieve a reasonably predictable outcome. Healers however, must constantly watch and maintain the unpredictable spike, AoE, and other damage on their group members. Because of this, it is nearly impossible to continuously follow a specific healing rotation. But like I said earlier, in order for any healer to have a reliable baseline of healing, they must have some potent rotation that they can fall back to. That is one of the reasons that RK healer is in a tough position when competing with other healing classes. The inability of RKs to string together skills and create efficient combos (other than the unpotent MV+WoH combo that eats up power) is something that needs to be, and I believe is currently being, addressed (at least from what I have heard about with discussion related to the tweaking of skills animations).

  9. #159
    i of course agree with something basic that maintain a good baseline of hps
    i personal just wouldn´t call it really a rotation if it does not contain 4 or more skills

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Malganis_Lefay View Post
    no rotation

    the attemp to implement a rotation into the RK healing is one reason why we are in a bad spot
    comboing skills is ok like bubble + EfA to react to certain situations (as long as it isnt the main fokus)
    but a rotation in healing takes all flexibility from you which is bad
    Exactly, very well said.

  11. #161
    Join Date
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    NO Preset-Rotation, just adjust the skills we have to be more effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by headhunted View Post

    Healing situations are, in every sense, much more unpredictable and tougher to adapt to than DPS situations.................... ... Healers however, must constantly watch and maintain the unpredictable spike, AoE, and other damage on their group members. Because of this, it is nearly impossible to continuously follow a specific healing rotation.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Malganis_Lefay View Post
    no rotation

    the attemp to implement a rotation into the RK healing is one reason why we are in a bad spot
    comboing skills is ok like bubble + EfA to react to certain situations (as long as it isnt the main fokus)
    but a rotation in healing takes all flexibility from you which is bad
    Completely agree. We must have no rotation, and only 2-3 skills that can work together depending on each situation, healing is not a rotation based role, it's a role based on adapting to the situation and knowing the fight, right now we have Rousing words powerful enough to take care of expected group damage in a raid, so there is no need to have anything else, single target maybe we're weaker given amount of damage a tank will get, but for me, rousing words + prelude (to restore power on everyone) is enough of a rotation for expected damage with a couple of efta or MV for tank. If they make it a rotation based role, it will be just boring and there will be no difference of character skill, and even lag or slow connection would make only difference if everyone is using same rotation.

  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    I worry about this, too. While I do think it hits too hard, there are a number of things that hit too hard atm. If you look on the forums, there are FAR more threads where people have noted the OPness of things like Impale or immediate skills that let a warg get off 8 attacks in a second. Again, I do agree SW's damage needs to come down, but it needs to be looked at in the context of other changes as well, and I do not think singling RKs out for a dps nerf is a good idea. Nerf it too much, and you'll likely see fire RKs disappear from the Moors (just as a lot of other freeps already have).

    People have different opinions about the affects of U13 on balance, but I think one thing is undeniable...... as a creep friend said, "it sure wasn't good for business!" I recently transferred off the server I played on for two years because u13 completely killed the action there. I checked around in the forums and messaged people on other servers, and found pretty much the same thing. I transferred to BW, because action was dying or dead everywhere else from what I could tell. And, what did I find there? Logged in, ran down the front steps of GV, and found six FoTM defilers supporting a whole bunch of BAs and two sets of multi-boxing weavers. So, when it comes to nerfing RK dps without balancing other things as well ....... why? Frankly, I'd put u13 in the same category as HD. Both resulted in lots of players leaving the game. If there are stats that indicate otherwise, I'd love to see them. From personal experience, though, more than half the people I was playing with in November, and had played with for several years, are gone now.

    Anxious to see what the next to level cap increases bring to the game. Hopefully, they'll be changes that bring people back instead of causing still more to leave.
    A dps nerf on that skill is a bummer not because of the nerf to that one skill but it's just another nerf in a semi-long line of them. We've lost so much utility and so much of the "extra" stuff we brought to the table over the last few updates, mostly with the intro of trait trees. The class is so simplified now and to get dps nerfed even further is sad. We won't be able to be interrupted but we'll still be able to be stunned, mezzed, disarmed. It's hard to complain about Impale/Dev b/c in raid situations creeps need that for the burst but that is op too.

    Any chance we could see a bump in the proc chance on the buff that reduces inductions? I haven't had coffee, can't recall the name, it seems to come up so seldom, omg is rng nerfing us too!!!!!

  14. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    It's hard to complain about Impale/Dev b/c in raid situations creeps need that for the burst but that is op too.
    That's precisely why, if SW is to be nerfed, the change needs to be looked at in the context of a package of changes that reduce the need for such OP burst skills and abilities as SW, Impale and the use of 'immediate' skills which allow for the execution of 8 to 9 skills in the space of a second.

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    That's precisely why, if SW is to be nerfed, the change needs to be looked at in the context of a package of changes that reduce the need for such OP burst skills and abilities as SW, Impale and the use of 'immediate' skills which allow for the execution of 8 to 9 skills in the space of a second.
    I will just say something:
    If you do changes that completely destroy pve fun (as they did), most pve people will just stop doing that and just leave the game or even stop buying expansions until it's fixed while pvp people might be up yet for playing but some people who do pvp are mainly raiders who don't play if the game doesn't offer fun in pve.
    Now if you do changes that completely destroy pvp fun, some people will cancel subscriptions, but most pve people will keep buying expansions as long as pve is good and I don't think that will mean a huge income loss.
    So in my oppinion, first fix pve which is most of the game (if possible before 90% of the players leave the game), and then fix pvp.

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    That's precisely why, if SW is to be nerfed, the change needs to be looked at in the context of a package of changes that reduce the need for such OP burst skills and abilities as SW, Impale and the use of 'immediate' skills which allow for the execution of 8 to 9 skills in the space of a second.
    the day they finally remove the capability for Monsters and Freeps to oneshot one another in a 1v1 will be my favorite day in PvMP.
    that includes high rank versus low rank btw, I just really don't see the point of classes being able to kill another player in mere seconds.
    If someone gets ganked by multiple enemies and dies in seconds, sure. But one warg killing low ranks before the Sudden Pounce stun wears of just scares away players from soloing and encourages everyone to huddle up in big raids.

  17. #167
    Rune Keeper Changes on bullroarer

    Runekeeper

    Riffler of Writs items should now properly remove the attunement shift of a Writ as intended.
    Words of Exaltation had old tooltip text that referred to the duration of the bubble being increased per tier of writ of health on a target. This functionality was removed in update 12 but the tooltip was not updated. It is now.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...UlLROARER-ONLY

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    708
    Quote Originally Posted by LorenNell View Post
    Rune Keeper Changes on bullroarer

    Runekeeper

    Riffler of Writs items should now properly remove the attunement shift of a Writ as intended.
    Words of Exaltation had old tooltip text that referred to the duration of the bubble being increased per tier of writ of health on a target. This functionality was removed in update 12 but the tooltip was not updated. It is now.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...UlLROARER-ONLY
    Very Sad list. Let's hope there will be more than one round of testing and that we will get a list of what is being worked on for the next round of Beta.

  19. #169
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
    Turbine, Inc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    Very Sad list. Let's hope there will be more than one round of testing and that we will get a list of what is being worked on for the next round of Beta.
    RK changes did not make it into the build, but they are in and will be playable next BR build.

    -Jinjaah

  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    RK changes did not make it into the build, but they are in and will be playable next BR build.

    -Jinjaah
    Is it possible to get a list of all of the changes, healing and else we will see in the next update? If it's even been fnalized that is.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    Is it possible to get a list of all of the changes, healing and else we will see in the next update? If it's even been fnalized that is.
    I assume change sets are accepted into the final builds as per QA sign-off and that means that some of those changes may not make U14. Posting them before QA sign-off would be like dangling candy in front of kids and not giving it to them
    [I]A small cog in a big machine.
    [/I]
    Life has no "Undo" button, only "I'm sorry". Thinking before doing is a good thing.

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    RK changes did not make it into the build, but they are in and will be playable next BR build.

    -Jinjaah
    Does this mean we will see changes to the RK in U14 or no?

  23. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    Is it possible to get a list of all of the changes, healing and else we will see in the next update? If it's even been fnalized that is.
    Sapience posts them on the Bullroarer forum before the server is opened.

  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by papafhill1 View Post
    Does this mean we will see changes to the RK in U14 or no?
    It means yes, in the next round of beta testing.

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    1,639
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    RK changes did not make it into the build, but they are in and will be playable next BR build.

    -Jinjaah
    As Jinjaah said here the changes are over on Bullroarer right now with U14 Build 2. Go test things out people.

    I've already gone and checked on DNF and I have to say Thanks Jinjaah for listening to us on this issue. I know I've been trying to get this specific change ever since HD Build 3.

 

 
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