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  1. #1
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Official Feedback: Hobnanigans

    We'd love to hear your feedback on the return of Hobnanigans.

    Please use this thread to discuss your likes and dislikes about the Hobnanigans game. Do please keep in mind that this isn't meant to be "won" in a single weekend and that Hobnanigans will return from time to time to allow you to gather more tokens and earn your items.

    If you don't know what Hobnanigans is, you can learn all bout it here.

  2. #2
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    Angry So many bugs!!!

    SO MANY BUGS.
    haven't gotten a full game yet without the chicken being hit out of the arena or hit on top of the goal post.

    Really???
    Selembar - R12 - Minstrel
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  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Yeah, 4 games and the last one bugged for us too. The chiken is outside of the game arena. We cannot get out, Target not in line of sight.


    Great game though, I love it.

  4. #4
    Prices need to be lowered.

    Carrying Chickens need to be made permanent. As that's really the only thing I am interested in, having them be one use only is a waste of my time.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
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    I was really looking forward to this. The game itself is fun but the prices for rewards are far too high. You get 5 tokens for losing or drawing (not sure about winning) and most rewards are hundreds of tokens each. Each game takes 10 minutes to play - you have to play day and night to ever get anything.

    I was excited about some of the lower priced rewards - ie: a live chicken you can carry that only costs 10 tokens. I bought one and thought it was really cute until I found out it was one use only!!! Seriously??!! ONE USE??!! I would be prepared to pay more tokens if it was a permanent skill - say 50 tokens.

    Very very disappointed
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  6. #6
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    I also had a chicken get stuck on top of one of the banners by the goal. I filed a bug report. So excited to have this back, but I also agree that the prices for the rewards are a bit high.
    Lethareth, the Celebratory

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardhik View Post
    We cannot get out
    Hey, this isn't Mines of Moria here ya know.....

    “It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

    ~ Bilbo Baggins * J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  8. #8
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    here Is my take on it, I played a few games on a couple different servers. the few games where there was no bugs, glitches or afkers I had a blast.

    However,

    #1 The banner posts on the sides at middle field, this is a bad spot. had a couple games where multiple players hit the chicken just right and it poped up on top of the banner post. It then gave a line of sight error and was unable to finish the game. Did a /bug report on this issue.
    #2 The Corners are a bit rough, It did seem like the chicken was stuck but it wasnt. just had to be able to hit it at the right angle to knock it out of the corner. Having a chicken in the corner tho is a real pain with 6 players trying to wallop on the poor birdie. I did not /bug this issue because the chicken never technically got stuck.
    #3 AFK players, had a few of these on both the servers i tried out. A player joins the game, then goes afk in the corner or over against the wall for the entire game. this does not help the team the player is on win the match. I did not bug this issue because its technically not a bug. Alas tho, I would like to see some kind of timer on the skill activity so if they dont keep using their chicken skill they get booted from the game or a penalty of say a 24 hour ban from hobnanigans. Not sure how this would be achieved or if it is achievable, but it would be nice to have something to prevent the afk players.
    #4 Reported 1 other issue, which I will not go into details or discuss. But i do hope it gets fixed soon.
    #5 hobnanigan tokens, You get 5 tokens for loosing, i did not manage to win any of the games. Think either the number of days hobnanigans is running needs to be increased, the cost of the items lowered or win / loose the amount of tokens you receive needs increasing. Due to waiting for players I only got to play about 6 games last night over a 4 hour period. my teams lost all the games so 4 hours for 30 tokens. I would like to at least get the wagon, that costs 90 tokens so i have to get lucky enough to have enough players to loose at least 12 more matches, less matches if i manage to win 1 or 2. haven't even considered the chicken pets or anything because i cant be available to play 18 hours a day for the 3 or 4 days this event is running.
    #6 tokens show up in inventory and no the barter wallet, did not bug this as i was not sure if it was working as intended or not.
    #7 tokens in inventory did not say Bound or anything, Have not tried to trade them yet to see whats up with it. unknown if working as intended or not.

    I do like the new wagon yard decoration. The game overall is a lot of fun and I will try to get it some play time later today if possible to get a few more tokens. Once all the bugs and kinks are worked out im sure this will be alot of fun. An idea, Since some servers do not have enough players interested in the festivals and events like hobnanigans, think it would be possible to eventually do instances type stuff so if their is say 3 players from Riddermark, 1 on Landroval and 2 on Brandywine, instead of waiting 2 or 3 hours for enough players they could be put into a instance match together.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celembar View Post
    SO MANY BUGS.
    haven't gotten a full game yet without the chicken being hit out of the arena or hit on top of the goal post.

    Really???
    Something so simple and so buggy. It looks like really fun, except the 9 out of 10 minutes waiting, because the chicken reached an impossible place, with no reset.

    ./dissapointed
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Celembar View Post
    SO MANY BUGS.
    haven't gotten a full game yet without the chicken being hit out of the arena or hit on top of the goal post.

    Really???
    Yeah I have to second that. Our chicken flew to the other side of the small stone-fence and now we can't get to it but still have time left. Sapience, is this a matter we should report to GMs?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus778 View Post
    Yeah I have to second that. Our chicken flew to the other side of the small stone-fence and now we can't get to it but still have time left. Sapience, is this a matter we should report to GMs?
    There is no real safe way to reset the game (and therefore the chicken), so notifying the GMs won't help you. At this time the only thing you can do is wait out the 10 minute timer until the game resets automatically.

    Please assure you are filing bugs whenever this happens so we can make the fields as robust as possible for the next round.

    Thank you for your help, and we hope you're enjoying the event!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We'd love to hear your feedback on the return of Hobnanigans.

    Please use this thread to discuss your likes and dislikes about the Hobnanigans game. Do please keep in mind that this isn't meant to be "won" in a single weekend and that Hobnanigans will return from time to time to allow you to gather more tokens and earn your items.

    If you don't know what Hobnanigans is, you can learn all bout it here.
    Love it! Awesome! Fantastic game! Landroval had great expeirence of playing, and not much exploiting.

    I can see a lot of potential with this, including actual real leagues and try to have champions defend their titles so on, on special occasions. Such as winning streaks. Ladders.


    Anyway Here are the bugs and suggestions to be fixed

    1: When a player picks up a stick and leaves fields by actually physically leaving, or crashing. The stick should be immediately replaced. If the person crashes within few seconds of picking up the last stick and the game is about to start, the game should reset and stick immediately replaced.
    This will stop exploiting, it will also stop having games with a man down. Hell I have seen Field 1 and 4 with 6 red and 1 blue!! Or 2 red and 0 blues.
    If someone crashes during game and managed to return in time, no credit is given.

    2: The walls should be smoother, it is so annoying to see chicken bogged down by a slight corner because of each stumps along the wall. There shouldn't be any gaps between walls and banners. This small gap allow chicken to be hit out of field and therefore stuck. If a chicken is stuck somehow during game and is not touched for a minute, it should be reseted to the centre line.

    3: Put the invisible wall around the field higher. Sometimes a chicken is hit 6 times and really flies over the fences/goal posts. Maybe create a maze's ceiling to keep it inside?

    4: Have all character's skills except for hobnanigans-related skills greyed out. The Egg stun can be breaken out by Hunter's Cry of the Predator, prevented by LM's stun immunity, champion's breakout skills and probably other characters too.

    5: Pets should be deactivated in the field, because with the chicken pets this can be annoying.

    6: Field 3 is broken sometimes. As when game start, the scoring isn't announced on screen in shout format, no one really wins the game therefore no win rewards are given out.

    7: Field 2 sometimes have players wearing the wrong cloak colours. And I have seen green cloaks, white cloaks, and bald people

    8: I hope Hobnanigans are one weekend every month or every fortnightly for 3-4 days, and for the duration of the major sporting events (Rugby World Cup, Soccer World Cup, Euro Cup)

    9: Minor, but the physics sometimes doens't make sense in terms of billard

    10: Tokens are not bound (can be bound to account). This can be exploited by trading, in particular with multiple accounts. A person with 6 accounts can take over 3v3 and earn 90 tokens a game, or 120 tokens if they take over 6v6. I understand the argument about kinship pooling together so this is minor issue if cooldown are addressed

    11: None of the bartered items are bound. EDIT: upon reflection, Nah don't need to be bounded, I like it that way.

    12: If the event is rarely run (4 times a year like Treasure Hunt) the cook recipes should be permanent, not single use. Please introduce furniture for the purple cook recipes!

    13: I haven't seen any special chicken tokens drop, except for the white ones. I assume they only drop if you win by many goals, or score the most goals? I am fine with some randoms, but can this be tied to achievements? Such as more winning streaks allow more chance of the rare one drops?

    14: Field 4 should be converted to 2 fields of 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4. It is difficult getting both 6v6 field full, and this contribute to number 1 issue mentioned above about sticks. Maybe this would change on weekend with more people.

    15: Cosmetic cloaks can be dyed. Quivers both are not coloured (should be red/blue), but dyable. EDIT: please don't be retroactive, as I got some and dyed it orange, it looks better :P)

    16: The prices are slightly expensive, if you are unlucky and never win a game, you would have to play 60 games to get a white chicken pet.

    17: the game time length is perfect, please don't cut it down as it is to be a game, not short quick hitfest. If a player pick up stick and leave game, the cooldown should be 10 minutes and barred from playing that field. That will kill exploiters.

    18: Is it possible to have a "ready button" to boot afkers? To reduce farming?

    19: While I was multi-boxing for testing purpose as there was no one online and I took opportunity to see how much can be exploited so on. For some reason, my main always gets (boost
    accounted for) 20 tokens for winning and 10 tokens for playing, but my main is always in fellowship and my second player who is to be next leader of fellowship also gets 20 tokens for winnign and 10 tokens for playing. Is this intended? Being a fellowship leader increase tokens? I thought it was because of top goal scorer but I tested this and my 3rd was top goal scorer of the match and yet only got 10 tokens (boosted). This is the case for 5 straight matches.

    Testing again out of fellowship still the same. can't pinpoint the reason.

    Update:


    20: I got white chicken hobnanigan field for the house decoration. the small one is cute but that is all? really? The large one is nice too. But I guess there is nothing much we can do with them.

    21: Lawn Chicken. Why not make them move around like property guards do and preferable 2-3?
    Last edited by duvelmoortgat; May 09 2014 at 10:31 AM.

  13. #13
    Dwarrowdelf has hardly anyone playing. The few people playing continuously bug the game by kicking the chicken out of bounds.

    I actually got one of my friends that quit lotro to reinstall it for this event. After 5 minutes he quit again because of this.

  14. #14
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    570
    Quote Originally Posted by duvelmoortgat View Post
    Love it! Awesome! Fantastic game! Landroval had great expeirence of playing, and not much exploiting.

    I can see a lot of potential with this, including actual real leagues and try to have champions defend their titles so on, on special occasions. Such as winning streaks. Ladders.


    Anyway Here are the bugs and suggestions to be fixed

    1: When a player picks up a stick and leaves fields by actually physically leaving, or crashing. The stick should be immediately replaced. If the person crashes within few seconds of picking up the last stick and the game is about to start, the game should reset and stick immediately replaced.
    This will stop exploiting, it will also stop having games with a man down. Hell I have seen Field 1 and 4 with 6 red and 1 blue!! Or 2 red and 0 blues.
    If someone crashes during game and managed to return in time, no credit is given.

    2: The walls should be smoother, it is so annoying to see chicken bogged down by a slight corner because of each stumps along the wall. There shouldn't be any gaps between walls and banners. This small gap allow chicken to be hit out of field and therefore stuck. If a chicken is stuck somehow during game and is not touched for a minute, it should be reseted to the centre line.

    3: Put the invisible wall around the field higher. Sometimes a chicken is hit 6 times and really flies over the fences/goal posts. Maybe create a maze's ceiling to keep it inside?

    4: Have all character's skills except for hobnanigans-related skills greyed out. The Egg stun can be breaken out by Hunter's Cry of the Predator, prevented by LM's stun immunity, champion's breakout skills and probably other characters too.

    5: Pets should be deactivated in the field, because with the chicken pets this can be annoying.

    6: Field 3 is broken sometimes. As when game start, the scoring isn't announced on screen in shout format, no one really wins the game therefore no win rewards are given out.

    7: Field 2 sometimes have players wearing the wrong cloak colours. And I have seen green cloaks, white cloaks, and bald people

    8: I hope Hobnanigans are one weekend every month or every fortnightly for 3-4 days, and for the duration of the major sporting events (Rugby World Cup, Soccer World Cup, Euro Cup)

    9: Minor, but the physics sometimes doens't make sense in terms of billard

    10: Tokens are not bound (can be bound to account). This can be exploited by trading, in particular with multiple accounts. A person with 6 accounts can take over 3v3 and earn 90 tokens a game, or 120 tokens if they take over 6v6. I understand the argument about kinship pooling together so maybe this is minor issue if cooldown are addressed

    11: None of the bartered items are bound.

    12: If the event is rarely run (4 times a year like Treasure Hunt) the cook recipes should be permanent, not single use. Please introduce furniture for the purple cook recipes!

    13: I haven't seen any special chicken tokens drop, except for the white ones. I assume they only drop if you win by many goals, or score the most goals? I am fine with some randoms, but can this be tied to achievements? Such as more winning streaks allow more chance of the rare one drops?

    14: Field 4 should be converted to 2 fields of 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4. It is difficult getting both 6v6 field full, and this contribute to number 1 issue mentioned above about sticks. Maybe this would change on weekend with more people.

    15: Cosmetic cloaks can be dyed. Quivers both are not coloured (should be red/blue), but dyable.

    16: The prices are slightly expensive, if you are unlucky and never win a game, you would have to play 60 games to get a white chicken pet.

    17: the game time length is perfect. If a player pick up stick and leave game, the cooldown should be 10 minutes and barred from playing that field. That will kill exploiters.

    18: Is it possible to have a "ready button" to boot afkers? To reduce farming?

    5. I saw several LM pets on the fields. These should most definitely be disabled.

    10. Sorry but I disagree. Don't have these bound. One of things that just irks me to no end with this game is all the stuff that's bound. Having them bound is much more harder for ones in kinships for example to get items for there house.


    11. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS! Items are hard as is to get & if someone who plays on more then one account like me then can give the cosmetic for example to the other account to put in wardrobe. Again enough with items being bound!


    17. Time length is too long. Should be cut down to 5 min.

  15. #15
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    I've played this event on my server ( snowbourne ) and i liked it but i am sure that i could have enjoyed it a lot more if multbiboxers were kiked from there
    Try to find a fix for multiboxers in this festival .
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  16. #16
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    Could the barter folks have the appropriate symbols placed on our map/minimap? I have a hard time locating them all. So far I've found three (furniture, cosmetics, emotes) but apparently I haven't found them all yet, as I saw someone above talking about recipes? Just how many of them are there?
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Could the barter folks have the appropriate symbols placed on our map/minimap? I have a hard time locating them all. So far I've found three (furniture, cosmetics, emotes) but apparently I haven't found them all yet, as I saw someone above talking about recipes? Just how many of them are there?
    Yeah I don't know where these recipes are or where to barter for the special chicken tokens.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Could the barter folks have the appropriate symbols placed on our map/minimap? I have a hard time locating them all. So far I've found three (furniture, cosmetics, emotes) but apparently I haven't found them all yet, as I saw someone above talking about recipes? Just how many of them are there?
    5 Barters for rewards.
    #1 Pets {Has the trading generic->chicken tokens for all but the gold quality ones, but the trade actions are rep gated) If you have the tokens already [via random drop, trade,etc] you can trade for any of the other rewards without worrying about rep. You just need rep to upgrade tokens as best I can tell.

    #2 Recipes (All Cook!) They're all single use recipes.
    #3 Cosmetics (Several are identical to both factions once dyed, or are simply reused old cosmetics.)
    #4 Housing Items
    #5 Emotes

    1 Barter for the 'rewards boosted for next match' (via mithril)
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Could the barter folks have the appropriate symbols placed on our map/minimap? I have a hard time locating them all. So far I've found three (furniture, cosmetics, emotes) but apparently I haven't found them all yet, as I saw someone above talking about recipes? Just how many of them are there?
    Both the recipe vendor and the pet vendor are up on the hill over the big 6v6 arena (Field #4, I believe?). The Recipe vendor (and a supplier) are near a cooking fire on the southeast corner of the field while the Pet vendor is above the northeast corner of the Field. (near a pen where you can see the tiny chicken types)

    I agree that it would be nice to have blue barter flag markers on the mini map for these.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Could the barter folks have the appropriate symbols placed on our map/minimap? I have a hard time locating them all. So far I've found three (furniture, cosmetics, emotes) but apparently I haven't found them all yet, as I saw someone above talking about recipes? Just how many of them are there?

    Southeastern of field 4 respectively southwestern of the of the tag game ruin is a carnival campfire with an npc for these recipes. so on the hill if that helps

    And at the western side of field 1 is a NPC for consumables (1 time use chicken to carry, map to Hobnanigans)

  21. #21
    Really disappointed with how this has been implemented.

    Firstly, I thought this would be a permanent event, not just a 'weekends special' like the treasure hunt. Our kin likes to play freeze tag on special occasions and this would have been a nice addition to our kin events. Now it sounds like we will have to turn up on a specific day and fight for space with the rest of the server. There's not even any guarantee that we could all play on the same field depending on numbers.

    Secondly, I totally didn't expect this to get turned into another festival grind! I think there is far to much focus on the rewards and not enough on the actual game. If an activity is fun to play then it doesn't need to be incentivised with tacky rewards. Lately there's been a lot of horrible grindy mechanics added to the game that we suffer through just for the rewards (BB's, fangorn quests, WoS grinds). This was the one thing that I was actually looking forward to playing for the sake of playing, yet rewards have been added and now its getting ruined by farmers and exploiters!

    Not happy.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We'd love to hear your feedback on the return of Hobnanigans.

    Please use this thread to discuss your likes and dislikes about the Hobnanigans game. Do please keep in mind that this isn't meant to be "won" in a single weekend and that Hobnanigans will return from time to time to allow you to gather more tokens and earn your items.

    If you don't know what Hobnanigans is, you can learn all bout it here.
    One word . . . . FUN!

    OMG, almost lost through laughing too much. Very nice social addition to the game.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We'd love to hear your feedback on the return of Hobnanigans.

    Please use this thread to discuss your likes and dislikes about the Hobnanigans game. Do please keep in mind that this isn't meant to be "won" in a single weekend and that Hobnanigans will return from time to time to allow you to gather more tokens and earn your items.

    If you don't know what Hobnanigans is, you can learn all bout it here.
    I played a little bit last night for the first time and it was a lot of fun. Hopefully, this can be a part of the game on a permanent basis and not just for the weekend.

    The only part that was getting a bit annoying was when the chicken would get caught up along the sidelines or in the corners...not sure what you guys could do with that though...maybe respawn it back in the middle after a certain amount of time. Other than that, ya, it was great....love it!

    Thanks Turbine/WB/Community
    “It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door. You step into the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”

    ~ Bilbo Baggins * J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    We'd love to hear your feedback on the return of Hobnanigans.

    Please use this thread to discuss your likes and dislikes about the Hobnanigans game. Do please keep in mind that this isn't meant to be "won" in a single weekend and that Hobnanigans will return from time to time to allow you to gather more tokens and earn your items.
    [/URL]
    I must say that I really like the idea of this mini-event, I like the looks of the Festival Grounds much better than with the old solo lonely looking playfield. I really wanted this to be a fun carefree event like some of the other event mini-games I've come to really like.

    However, after jumping over to see what was going on on the second day of this event I must say I was nothing but frustrated with the implementation. I felt that the lack of explanation other than 'Go and see!' really negatively impacted my first impression. I was almost immediately confused with 3 playing areas and what appeared to be duplicated quests (I could get what appeared to be the same quest from three different quest-givers, each with differential behaviors). That had me baffled for a few minutes.

    I really had a hard time knowing what was going on once I got into a game. The games are obviously timed, but there appeared to be no clock I could see. If I'm wrong and there is one, you need to make it more visible. If I'm not wrong you also need to make the clock more visible, a lOT more. I had no idea how long a game should go on, and it seemed to drag on -forever-. Time does that when you have no idea where you are in a period.

    The games appear to have a score, but I can't tell you how to find it. If there's a scoreboard it would be news to me. Not knowing whether your team is in the game or not is a interest killer, too.

    The game mechanics are what really got under my skin. Apparently it all about timing, so if you invoke your chicken hit a split-second too late you're actually going to drive it in the same direction as whomever got there first. I cannot tell you how many times I saw one red team player rush a hen followed by multiple blue team members, only to have all the blues hit a bit late, driving the chicken into blues' goal. Switch the team colors around and you have about every game I played or watched. After this frustration I tried to play it like a team sport, and played defense. It was an exercise in a new flavor of frustration. Now I am always facing the wrong direction, underestimated the distance the hen would be hit, can't chase it down fast enough, whatever. Position play may be possible given these mechanics, but I determined that to get good you'd be undermining the whole fun of this event! I thought this was meant to be a lark (or chicken, if you prefer)?

    I got further frustrated when my team, no matter how many goals we would win by (presumably, without score keeping who can know for sure?) we would always be told it was a tie! I know for certain a tie was not possible, but I was told that twice when my team was certain up by double-digit goals. So, I quickly learned I would never get anything other than 5 tokens per 10 minute eternity with no hope of acquiring any of the permanent goods (holding chickens are a fine idea, but at the token prices you're asking you can count me out). I came to understand the several people out of 12 that were always AFK each game. Why bother to play?

    Add to this the dead-time waiting for 12 players, chickens leaving the playing field, that you made a hockey game with -square corners- (even when the chicken is on the pitch there is game-stoppage because of the poor field shape - corners eat the game object, folks), a mystery list of deeds we may or may not want to pursue (why don't you guys publish this stuff along with, say, any kind of play instructions?) and I was done. I got the Rookie deed, and the two team deeds in 4 games and called in quits.

    I left the festival grounds in a foul mood, no pun at all intended. I did not return for this event, and unless fixes are made and published before the next event I have no intention of going back. Grinding slayer deeds, which is what I abandoned to try this, was far more fun and rewarding.

    It was after I left that I realized that Hob tokens are -unbound-. I have ten in my kinhouse chest right now. Was the intent to create an insane new economy around those willing to grind out event quests for the rich? Again, another sign this was rushed out the door.

    Oh, and the mithril accelerator salesman? One word: insulting. If you want to encourage your detractors to describe your game as a transparent money grab, taking the fun out of things and replacing it with a grind (that you can spend real money to eliminate!!!) please persist with this. The rest of my description above is about frustration. Seeing that guy out there was disheartening. It's hard to disagree with your detractors when you're selling vendor items that require thousands of tokens, mystery chickens that you acquire with impossible wins (presumably, again there are no published game rules and rewards, so how would I know?) for something that I was able to generate 20 tokens for in an hour of 'play'. Scare quotes intended.

    I don't want the devs getting discouraged - this was a great idea! But this implementation feels rushed and poorly thought out. I love LotRO a great deal, but I had to walk away from my computer Friday after this event to cool down. Awful.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,369
    The time remaining gets announced when a new skill gets added to your bar. And the score is announced whenever a goal is scored. Both in fairly large print in the middle of your screen. Perhaps a bug if you weren't able to see it. A ticking clock in your quest bar as is usually done for timed quests would be helpful, Turbine.

 

 
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