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  1. #1

    Squishy revisited

    Well, I've done my best to follow the help and suggestions other players have offered and the character I originally posted about, my rune keeper, is doing better, and I think she might make it to lv95 if I can find the patience for it.

    However, I just dug my Champion out of mothballs and was horrified to find he is even squishier than my rune keeper! On the yellow tree he was nearly getting killed by a single on-level non-elite. Switched to the tanking blue tree which has a lot of self heals...he could handle one ok but 2 on-level non-elites were too much for him. I mean...come on...he's a freakin tank for gosh sake and he can't handle 2 on-level non-elites?! ###! And this was after messing around on lower level stuff to get the hang of the blue tree attack rotation so I'd know how best to handle a mob. I had to switch my RK to the red tree just so she could survive but seriously is the red tree the only survivability option for the solo player? Seriously?

    I've done what I can improve based on the suggestions given, but all I want to do is quickly and with as little annoyance as possible grind out my remaining 48 levels. Under these current circumstances leveling is much slower, more tedious, and a heck of a lot more frustrating. I though games were supposed to be fun, where is the fun when your champion is as weak as a little baby and you somehow have to slog through 48 more levels without going crazy. I'd really prefer that content be made crazy insane challenging for level 95s but left easy for people grinding out levels. Enough already, this squishiness is sucking the fun out of leveling up.

    My champs particulars:

    Race traits equipped: Tactics and might bonus, Man sword damage bonus

    Virtues equipped: Compassion level 4, Valour level 4, Charity level 3, Fidelity level 6, and Patience level 6 (These are on par with where he is at level-wise in case anyone is wondering)

    Armor/jewelry/weps: Mix of purple and teal crafted at or as close to his level as was possible and with appropriate stats

    Using full line of purple superior food, scrolls and fervor potions at the level available

  2. #2
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    I recommend reading through and posting in this thread: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...and-virtues%29
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by elfincat View Post
    Virtues equipped: Compassion level 4, Valour level 4, Charity level 3, Fidelity level 6, and Patience level 6 (These are on par with where he is at level-wise in case anyone is wondering)
    Change Valour and Patience to something useful (e.g. Honour, Zeal).

    Lvl3 Compassion and lvl3 Charity on a lvl47 char show that you basically ignored virtues. Charity could have lvl8 or 9, Compassion lvl8-10.

  4. #4
    I didn't read the other thread so I may be repeating some of the similar advice, but I guess you are level 47? Did you get your legendary items yet? if not, do so ASAP, it will help you immensely. I was 85 when HD came out so I can't say for sure @ the earlier levels, but when traiting yellow you should be dealing out so much dps that your relative squishiness shouldn't be an issue. what type of skill rotation do you use? where are you questing, eregion or moria? are you using morale potions? why aren't you using your man self heal (didn't see it mentioned below)? how often are you dying? dying once in a while is OK, learn from your mistakes! if you are having a lot of trouble, ask people in your kin for assistance; this is an MMO after all.

    it is also important to realize that champs aren't tanks. they CAN be pretty decent at tanking with a lot of work and skill, but that is not their primary role. they are not meant to stand there taking hit after hit. they are meant to tear through crowds quicker than the crowd can hit back. keep that in mind while playing.

  5. #5
    I checked that other thread mentioned so as far as virtues go, let's be honest here, even getting those up to all 9s and 10s isn't suddenly going to make my character super strong and the content thus easy. Virtues are only going to get a person so far and as far as his trait tree...yeah blue is a so-called "tank" build with a few self heals built in. Nothing changes the fact that grinding levels is now a tedious chore and you 95s don't have what you want either so it's a lose-lose isn't it guys.

  6. #6
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    When you get to 50, grab a few runs of sch/lib with a friend at cap just for scaled loots. Virtues at 4-5 isn't uncommon where you are at and you shouldn't have to worry too much about it. Go back for a few deeds perhaps --- you could be higher up in them but that'd require a few deeds like quest deeds in an area...do whatever seems quick. Aim for resistances and mitigation in virts - and resi food, regular food buffs - scholar battle/morale scrolls. Make sure your weapons have non-common damage type etc.

    It should become doable but don't expect it to be much fun and smooth. Chat in /ooc and in kin and see if you can get to duo a bit, it really makes the struggle less obvious and boosts your sessions a lot.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    Lvl3 Compassion and lvl3 Charity on a lvl47 char show that you basically ignored virtues. Charity could have lvl8 or 9, Compassion lvl8-10.
    For a level 50 character doing only SoA content, virtues effectively cap around 8.

    To take Compassion as a specific example, the ninth rank would come from either completing Barad Gularan nine times, or completing I.14.15, School, and Library. Neither is possible for a level 50-ish character who isn't using the xp disabler and in a very active level 50 kin. And this assumes the character has completed the Eregion quest deeds, which probably isn't the case yet.

    Re: OP, my level 50 champ does just fine in yellow, same as ever. But he has good virtues at the highest available levels (mostly 7s - for many virtues the eighth rank would be from Eregion/Moria or on-level instances) and very good gear. Mixture of instance drops as Macroscian recommended, and guild level 50 crafted pieces. He does own Rift boots but they're actually not very good. It could be that virtues are the main issue you're seeing - a kinmate claimed his cap-tank lost 34% phys mit after U13, which struck me as very odd since my champ only lost 10-12%. But he explained that his virtues are mostly 3s...

    Make sure you complete as many class deeds as possible. My level 50 champ has 33 trait points (all deeds complete except the ridiculous True Heroics deed - that one could well take more than a year to finish if they don't fix it).

    Oh, and make sure to equip a decent pocket. My level 50 champ can't (xp disabler), but there are plenty of options with a nice chunk of physical mitigation around level 50. Tasgall's Gift of Valour in the low 40s in west Angmar, later the Phial of the Swirling Waters from finishing I.8.5; there's one in Forochel (candied nuts of some kind, I think) in between if that's more convenient. And once you start Moria, there's the Symbol of Deep Thought from II.2.2. The switch to using the pocket for offensive stats instead of mitigations doesn't really start until the low 70s, and even then it's worth holding on to the Symbol of Deep Thought in case you continue running into survivability issues.

  8. #8
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    I've been reading all these posts about super squishiness after the latest update so I jumped on a couple of my lower level characters and tested out each one and I don't really see a difference to be honest. Let me clarify that I have been playing for 5 years and have one character for each class in the game (my 95 RK being my first and main) and since I have so many alts I also have all the crafts covered as well so my champ and warden, the 2 characters I tested out, have crafted armor, weapons and jewellrey but I have done absolutely no work on their virtues and they steamrolled through everything I tried out with ease. If you are having trouble maybe it's your gear, or lack thereof, more than anything else. Perhaps be a tailor if you are a light or medium armor class or a metalsmith if you are a heavy armor class and craft yourself some armor or ask someone in your kin or in the chat channels to help you out. I know many people on Elendilmir who would happily craft something for someone if they asked and especially if they had the ore or hides that were needed.

    I myself have crafted stuff for newer low level players and just mailed it or gave it to them because I felt bad that that they had no decent gear - at low levels critted crafted gear is awesome and usually best in slot for most pieces.

    That's just my suggestion.
    Elendilmir forever!

  9. #9
    I dusted off a lvl 41 champ alt on an old server after seeing this thread. Geared with the lvl 25 barrow downs heavy set, lvl 35ish weapons, and random quest reward jewelry. Mobs 1-2 levels above me were dying to me losing about 1/8th of my morale, 2 mobs at once I'd be way above 1/2, and even 4 mobs at once I didn't need to use any defensive skills, just stand there and dps. This is with no virtue above r3.

    I'm not seeing the problem, personally. I'm sorry to hear you are.

  10. #10
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    I'm not sure where these claims of "squishyness" are coming from. I know they changed amount of damage landscape mobs dish out but still. Maybe its my still slightly OP'd pet eagle but managing 2-3 mobs at once isn't to bad for my 45 LM. two signatures starts to get interesting or anything more than a sig + 1 mob but its still do able. I enjoy actually dying once and awhile and having to plan my route around the world to avoid untimely doom

  11. #11
    My level 20 captain is strolling around the landscape like he's on god mode. One careless death: I was afk.

    He's on yellow and grey gear with one purple item (the class quest weapon). In fact some of the yellow armour is not even heavy, the grey stuff was so outlevelled the medium armour quest rewards have better armour value & stats.

    I don't want to humiliate anyone, but you aren't squishy in this game any more, definitely not on the landscape.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex53 View Post
    My level 20 captain is strolling around the landscape like he's on god mode. One careless death: I was afk.

    He's on yellow and grey gear with one purple item (the class quest weapon). In fact some of the yellow armour is not even heavy, the grey stuff was so outlevelled the medium armour quest rewards have better armour value & stats.

    I don't want to humiliate anyone, but you aren't squishy in this game any more, definitely not on the landscape.
    My hunter had same, to 22. The reason is trait tree starts are OP. The fun starts in Evendim, with about zero trait tree points you your name. You may wish to look at the classes discussed, too.

    I ran an hour duo in Eregion with a minstrel, he dealt about double my damage. I ran a while with an LM who took about half the damage I did from one ranged mob.
    1-7 is just intro, 8-30 is as easy as it ever was since cap was 65. 34 was where I hit a major bump in the road and going through the revamped areas it was just struggle and more struggle to 45 when I opted to do a slowmotion crawl through Walls of Moria for my LIs.

    I know the quests and the areas and the content and my class - I know and have access to the best buffs available.

    The opening post is about a champ, apparently a class that will see a major make-over next patch. I doubt anyone's humiliated if you have a different experience, on a different class, at different levels. Happy lelving!

  13. #13
    Thanks to everyone who responded with good suggestions, despite the original angry tone of my post, I've taken it all to heart and took the time to grind up my virtues quite a lot as well as changing them up to focus on as much phys and tact mit as I can.

    I also swapped out to the Red Champion tree and I still find myself bleeding morale heavily during any on-level fight and even some a few levels below to where the poor guy nearly dies and that's with food and scrolls too. It's almost like he isn't wearing any armor. My light armor RK doesn't have this problem, its really weird and her virtues are even a little on the low side. If the virtues cap on his level is around 8 then he is pretty close to it so I don't think getting all to level 8 is going to suddenly cause him to stop bleeding out so fast....unless he is broken. I mean...I am just not seeing any difference in performance after nearly doubling his mits.

    Has anyone else below level 95 experienced a problem with Champs bleeding morale super fast after u13 even after leveling virtues by 2 or 3 ranks? Maybe he really is broken and I need to put in a ticket?

    ***UPDATE: I forgot to mention earlier, since making all the changes to this character I only tried him out against on or below level creatures in Forochel and he was still very squishy *however* I then decided to test him out against on or above level creatures in Eregion around Gwingris...and he is doing just fine! So the problem isn't me it's that frost debuff. Just wanted to let people know. I'm feeling a bit embarrassed but also relieved =) Just going to skip Forochel for now.***

    Here are his current particulars at lv47 without any food, scrolls, or other buffs active:

    Virtues: Compassion 6, Innocence 5, Charity 7, Fidelity 7, Patience 7

    Morale: 2802
    Power: 2517
    Armor: 2654
    Might: 393
    Vitality: 265

    Offence:

    Crit: 893

    Phys mastery: 3305
    Tact mastery: 3408

    Decence:

    Resistance: 3394

    Mitigations:

    Phys: 4967
    Tact: 1442
    Last edited by elfincat; May 02 2014 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Added new combat info

  14. #14
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    Virtues look good . Since RoI I usually run 2x physical mit, 2x tactical mit and 1 resist virtue on all characters. Sometimes I'll swap out a tact mit for +armor on my casters while soloing. So you've got a good spread there. One note about Forochel, you can clear that persistant frost debuff you get by warming yourself near a camp fire. But the longer you stay out there without visiting a camp fire from time to time, the more it stacks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by catofnine View Post
    Virtues look good . Since RoI I usually run 2x physical mit, 2x tactical mit and 1 resist virtue on all characters. Sometimes I'll swap out a tact mit for +armor on my casters while soloing. So you've got a good spread there. One note about Forochel, you can clear that persistant frost debuff you get by warming yourself near a camp fire. But the longer you stay out there without visiting a camp fire from time to time, the more it stacks.
    The steam vents in the ice canyons do the same as the campfires, as far as I know. They certainly remove it in instances. Good to hear you tracked the problem in Forochel, Elfincat

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfincat View Post
    Well, I've done my best to follow the help and suggestions other players have offered and the character I originally posted about, my rune keeper, is doing better, and I think she might make it to lv95 if I can find the patience for it.

    However, I just dug my Champion out of mothballs and was horrified to find he is even squishier than my rune keeper! On the yellow tree he was nearly getting killed by a single on-level non-elite. Switched to the tanking blue tree which has a lot of self heals...he could handle one ok but 2 on-level non-elites were too much for him. I mean...come on...he's a freakin tank for gosh sake and he can't handle 2 on-level non-elites?! ###! And this was after messing around on lower level stuff to get the hang of the blue tree attack rotation so I'd know how best to handle a mob. I had to switch my RK to the red tree just so she could survive but seriously is the red tree the only survivability option for the solo player? Seriously?

    I've done what I can improve based on the suggestions given, but all I want to do is quickly and with as little annoyance as possible grind out my remaining 48 levels. Under these current circumstances leveling is much slower, more tedious, and a heck of a lot more frustrating. I though games were supposed to be fun, where is the fun when your champion is as weak as a little baby and you somehow have to slog through 48 more levels without going crazy. I'd really prefer that content be made crazy insane challenging for level 95s but left easy for people grinding out levels. Enough already, this squishiness is sucking the fun out of leveling up.

    My champs particulars:

    Race traits equipped: Tactics and might bonus, Man sword damage bonus

    Virtues equipped: Compassion level 4, Valour level 4, Charity level 3, Fidelity level 6, and Patience level 6 (These are on par with where he is at level-wise in case anyone is wondering)

    Armor/jewelry/weps: Mix of purple and teal crafted at or as close to his level as was possible and with appropriate stats

    Using full line of purple superior food, scrolls and fervor potions at the level available


    Forget everything you used to know about virtues. basically now anything virtues offer is worthless compared to mitigation bonuses. Moral? forget it. Might? worthless.

    for the best mitigation bonuses go with (and max however you can) Fidelity, Tolerance, Empathy, Innocence , and either Compassion(physical) or Honor(tactical)

    These will vastly improve your mitigations.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000d6cff/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by douglasburns View Post
    Forget everything you used to know about virtues. basically now anything virtues offer is worthless compared to mitigation bonuses. Moral? forget it. Might? worthless.

    for the best mitigation bonuses go with (and max however you can) Fidelity, Tolerance, Empathy, Innocence , and either Compassion(physical) or Honor(tactical)

    These will vastly improve your mitigations.
    See i disagree with this.

    I still use Morale/Vit/Might/Agi/Will virtues all my toons, LM/MINS/RNK/CAPT/CHAMP/GRD/BURG. There is no need to equip extra Mitigation virtues for anything in the game other than PVP. For levelling all classes have some sort of heals so all-out dps is the obvious choice. I recently took a minstrel from 0-60, through the new areas (nice changes btw) and didnt die until i got to moria...and that was to get the 'well travelled' title.

    As for the original OP having problems with his RNK/CHAMP they do have self-heals, bracing attack for champs (im sure you would have to spend 2 points to spec it if your red/yellow line) and RNK's can spec mending verse and get 1 other heal as standard. Use stuns/roots when you can also (champ horns etc)

    I dont agree with people saying squishys are too squishy:

    LM's shouldnt even get hit if the player is paying the class correcty
    RNK's do way too much damage and have stuns etc
    Minstrels still do way too much dps...i took down a lvl 65 rare elite (one of the ones who drops mithril flakes) with no problems solo

    My main problem is with my Burg, he dies more than my others combined. This is probably in part the way i play my burg (i.e im not very good heh), but im always using stuns/roots/mezzes.

    Anyways in short self-heals/Crowd control/kiting/sensible pulls will see you through.

  18. #18
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    If you want/need max or close to max mitiagations you will do as I suggest.

    If you don't need em don't?

    What is there to disagree about?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000d6cff/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 

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