We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1

    To make things more interesting and less faceroll-y

    So, I have a simple solution

    Lets add more tiers to all instances, every instance in the current roster and future instances

    there is the base (and rather easy) tier's 1 to 3, why not add 3 or 4 more tiers? and with each tier give the group an incoming healing debuff (whoa i know, im getting hasty here). Not a huge one, but just to make things more interesting, also, scale the damage from mobs on each tier by 50%
    tier 1 - 50%
    tier 2 - 100%
    tier 3 - 150%
    tier 4 - 200%
    Tier 5 - 250%
    tier 6 - 300%
    tier 7 - 350%
    as well as have an in coming and/or out going healing debuff of 10% for each tier as well

    I know, some of you may think "whoa, what are you saying? you want to make something a challenge?"

    and yes, that is the main point of this thread. A tier 3 sk-raid should not be farmable by 6 people on a constant basis. sooner or later first ages might as well be yellow drops from land scape mobs

    and these debuffs will only be calculated (to a certain extent) for 3 man to 12 man groups only, solo groups and duo groups will be 15% per tier for solo and 25% for duo's and scales by 15% and 25% respectively for each tier as well
    Last edited by Barney1119; Apr 28 2014 at 11:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,499
    As I just finished saying on another thread, some people
    want challenges. Some people DON'T.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,950
    There are people for whom the definition of challenge isn't determined by combat, fight time or defeat risk. The task is the challenge. Sometimes that's the fight alone, often it isn't.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  4. #4

    Great idea!

    I think this is a great idea! I like it. Unfortunately I think this would require a huge amount of work from the devs and so I don't think it will ever happen.

  5. #5
    I'd also suggest to add absolutely no additional loot in respect to T2HM except maybe titles.
    I also guess that 1-2 additional tiers would suffice.

    This way absolutely noone else would be affected (of course it would draw precioussssss programming time from my favorite playstyle....).
    This would just be instances for those who like it. The main target would be to be NOT able to do them, but to get the feeling it is possilbe while in reality it isn't.
    Maybe add a 100% heal just at the end :-)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,027
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post
    As I just finished saying on another thread, some people
    want challenges. Some people DON'T.
    How would this be a problem for those who don't want challenge? No one would have to do the harder tiers. this would surely just allow for those who want challenge and those who don't to be able to choose their preferred level.

    or am I missing something?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    900
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    How would this be a problem for those who don't want challenge? No one would have to do the harder tiers. this would surely just allow for those who want challenge and those who don't to be able to choose their preferred level.

    or am I missing something?
    Nope, i don't think you missed anything, it's just that the discussion has become so infected there are many instinctive reactions to anything involving the words 'difficulty', 'reward' or 'challenge'

    I think more tiers is a great idea, and have had a couple of suggestions about this myself.

    It seems to me some players have a feeling of being 'excluded' from content because they don't want to group/play with strangers. As i think Middle-Earth should be big enough for all of us (i.e. many different playstyles) i absolutely promote introducing more tiers as i think this could solve this problem.

    We would need a T0 (explorer-tier) More or less a zero-difficulty Level. All mobs non-agressive, all mechanics to proceed taken away etc. This way everyone can at least see the content.

    I admit i'm partly egoistic here as i'm pretty sure most non-groupers would be quite underwhelmed when they see what little effort has been put in the so called 'raids/instances' since RoI+LLG and therefore get a better understanding of why raiders/groupers have a feeling they get the short end of the stick.

    After T0 there should be at least T1-T4 on everything. Preferably with a CM on every tier to train players on meeting certain conditions. Rewards accordingly of course.

    In a perfect (imho of course) world, content like this (multi-tiered) would also exist for solo-instances, (tailor-made for every class) to finally end the boring and never-ending discussion about 'best reward for the most difficult content' .

    Not very likely, i agree, but dreaming is still for free, ain't it?

    Regards
    /T

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,027
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias_R View Post
    Nope, i don't think you missed anything, it's just that the discussion has become so infected there are many instinctive reactions to anything involving the words 'difficulty', 'reward' or 'challenge'

    I think more tiers is a great idea, and have had a couple of suggestions about this myself.

    It seems to me some players have a feeling of being 'excluded' from content because they don't want to group/play with strangers. As i think Middle-Earth should be big enough for all of us (i.e. many different playstyles) i absolutely promote introducing more tiers as i think this could solve this problem.


    /T
    Couldn't agree more, it does get frustrating seeing people demanding only cater to my preferences about X or Y. Personally I'd find it quite sad if everyone was the same/wanted the same thing. THAT would be boring. Variety is good but gives the developer headaches.

    Still agree with OP though , and yourself extra tiers could work quite well. Not sure how able they are to to this with landscape stuff though, sounds like lots and lots and lots of work. When would they have time to make more raids if they did that?

    Regards

  9. #9
    I have no problem with adding harder tiers to instances, but base tier difficulty, classes, and threat mechanics need fixing first. Fix the fundamentals, then add new stuff.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,499
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    Not a challenge. Too weak.
    To please The Screamers, i propose the following:
    1) increase monster damage and health 100 times and
    2) decrease players' health and damage 10 times.
    If your tongue were any further into your cheek, it would be
    wriggling out your ear.

    Then we would have real challenge, game would be less faceroll, Lotro would return to where it was 77 years ago, all elitists Screamers would be happy and the world would be ways better.
    Seventy-seven years ago? That would be 1937, when the
    only games we had were baseball, football, and war games
    that were rapidly becoming all too real; and video screens
    were still a mere gleam in Farnsworth's eye.
    Last edited by djheydt; May 02 2014 at 12:23 PM.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI, U.S.A.
    Posts
    1,406
    Quote Originally Posted by djheydt View Post

    Seventy-seven years ago? That would be 1937, when the
    only games we had were baseball, football, and war games
    that were rapidly becoming all too real; and video screens
    were still a mere gleam in Farnsworth's eye.
    If by video screens you mean first transmitted and displayed still/moving (television) images, you would need to go back a bit further to the 1880's and the 1920's

    History of Television

    I know it is a Wiki article and therefore its accuracy is suspect, but I believe it serves the purpose here.

    Love your tongue in cheek comment.
    Ujest - 100 Lore-master, Opun - 76 Warden, plus alts and mules
    Pipeweed and Ale, Arkenstone (formerly Friends of Frodo Vilya)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    12,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandolf_TheOld View Post
    If by video screens you mean first transmitted and displayed still/moving (television) images, you would need to go back a bit further to the 1880's and the 1920's

    History of Television

    I know it is a Wiki article and therefore its accuracy is suspect, but I believe it serves the purpose here.

    Love your tongue in cheek comment.
    /e bows right, left, and center

    Thank you, Sir.

    (I went to grade school with Farnsworth's nephew Darryl. How's
    that for ancient?)
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  13. #13
    I suggested they make a pocket item or skill that when used or active lowers your stats, or mitigation's, or both at the same time. Yula suggested a slider to do the same thing. This way you can use it or not use it. It works for most everyone then. If the game is made to hard, then one side is upset, and if not made hard enough, the other side is upset. This way, everyone has a choice as to how challenging they want to make the game. I personally don't want to go back to having to find someone to complete a quest. I like the game the way it is, but I also understand there are those that like it more challenging. At least with a slider, skill, or pocket item, you get to control how much of a challenge you want.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,110
    You can already make a difficulty slider by removing armor/jewelry until things get to your desired difficulty level. But that's not terribly satisfying. The landscape should be moderately easy overall, with the occasional tougher spot. Group instances should cover the range from fairly easy to fiendishly difficult, according to a given player's taste. Previous to U13, there really wasn't any difficult instance to be found without self-nerfing. Now we seem to be a good deal closer.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,685
    Just ask Turbine sell a pocket item that increases your incoming damage by 50% and lowers also your outgoing damage by 50%. Anyone wanting the difficulty and longer fight can equip it, leaving people who want to breeze through the content alone.

  16. #16
    As someone who likes the landscape content on the easy side and rarely groups I think that's an awesome idea for the raiding community. No idea if the mechanics make sense, but adding additional tiers to the existing instances could be at least something as long as Turbine doesn't come up with new instances.
    ~ Huntress reincarnated ~

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vilan View Post
    You can already make a difficulty slider by removing armor/jewelry until things get to your desired difficulty level. But that's not terribly satisfying. The landscape should be moderately easy overall, with the occasional tougher spot. Group instances should cover the range from fairly easy to fiendishly difficult, according to a given player's taste. Previous to U13, there really wasn't any difficult instance to be found without self-nerfing. Now we seem to be a good deal closer.
    Update 13.1 >>> Update 13.
    But the rot set in with the removal of stat caps, for me.
    And you'd be surprised at the number of 95s that still can't do Dark Delvings or Dar Narbugud...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    1,850
    My opinion:
    I think landscape quests should be soloable by the majority. But, in my opinion, players should not be able to stand in the landscape, surrounded by mobs, go afk and still kill using auto-attack or pets or just not die. This is not farmville it is middle earth. edit: Perhaps instead provide a 'mobs do no damage' button or an 'invulnerable' pocket item sellable in the store, for those who would like it. (Any deeds done like this would not count, of course. But then these players wouldn't need those pesky virtues anyway.) I'd rather this, than expecting those who don't like it so easy to nerf themselves and the landscape.

    As it is I think update 13 got it right for the landscape with a few notable exceptions discussed at length elsewhere.

    Group content should not gate the main quest lines. But areas with optional group quests at all levels on the landscape would be nice.

    Tier 1 should be a bit harder but puggable half the time by first time group players on first attempt.
    Tier 2 should take practice on tier 1 or good group of experienced players and should need all class skills available
    Tier 3 or tier 2 CM should be expert level and any mistake should be punished.

    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Just ask Turbine sell a pocket item that increases your incoming damage by 50% and lowers also your outgoing damage by 50%. Anyone wanting the difficulty and longer fight can equip it, leaving people who want to breeze through the content alone.
    This doesn't make it more challenging. Nor does playing naked. It is just more tedious, if it still a mindless dps race that takes longer. This is the reason the slider idea would not work. It is the reason mits reduction had little effect on experienced players at most levels (some classes and levels excepted-as noted elsewhere.)

    When people like me say they want challenge they do not mean do half the damage or half the heals, they mean improve the AI and the make the mobs damage interesting. That is please add interesting mechanics-like reflects, debuffs, positioning, calls for help to nearby mobs, so my skills matter. Even if it is in a special area of landscape with big warning signs that can avoided by anyone who doesn't want to play that way.

    I repeat-Landscape should be fairly easy for all. In my experience on a level 47 light tactical it still exactly that but others seem to differ. Despite still being frustrated that mobs are so far apart and have such tiny aggro ranges these days that I can't chain pull on the landscape any more (it's so frustrating to have to run to chase the next one and lose my attunement when doing the kill 10 snowbeasts type quests) if I could take the quests 5-8 levels above my characters, I'd be happy with the update 12 level of non difficulty, so I got my immersion and others got to pewpew their way by dpsing only, and got easily to cap.



    As it is I think the move was in the right direction-levels 86-89, mounted uruks, and some escort quests, being the notable exeptions. These are being fixed in 13.1, it seems.
    Last edited by Calta; May 02 2014 at 08:16 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    4,950
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    My opinion:
    I think landscape quests should be soloable by the majority. But, in my opinion, players should not be able to stand in the landscape, surrounded by mobs, go afk and still kill using auto-attack or pets or just not die. This is not farmville it is middle earth. edit: Perhaps instead provide a 'mobs do no damage' button or an 'invulnerable' pocket item sellable in the store, for those who would like it. (Any deeds done like this would not count, of course. But then these players wouldn't need those pesky virtues anyway.) I'd rather this, than expecting those who don't like it so easy to nerf themselves and the landscape.

    As it is I think update 13 got it right for the landscape with a few notable exceptions discussed at length elsewhere.

    Group content should not gate the main quest lines. But areas with optional group quests at all levels on the landscape would be nice.

    Tier 1 should be a bit harder but puggable half the time by first time group players on first attempt.
    Tier 2 should take practice on tier 1 or good group of experienced players and should need all class skills available
    Tier 3 or tier 2 CM should be expert level and any mistake should be punished.



    This doesn't make it more challenging. Nor does playing naked. It is just more tedious, if it still a mindless dps race that takes longer. This is the reason the slider idea would not work. It is the reason mits reduction had little effect on experienced players at most levels (some classes and levels excepted-as noted elsewhere.)

    When people like me say they want challenge they do not mean do half the damage or half the heals, they mean improve the AI and the make the mobs damage interesting. That is please add interesting mechanics-like reflects, debuffs, positioning, calls for help to nearby mobs, so my skills matter. Even if it is in a special area of landscape with big warning signs that can avoided by anyone who doesn't want to play that way.

    I repeat-Landscape should be fairly easy for all. In my experience on a level 47 light tactical it still exactly that but others seem to differ. Despite still being frustrated that mobs are so far apart and have such tiny aggro ranges these days that I can't chain pull on the landscape any more (it's so frustrating to have to run to chase the next one and lose my attunement when doing the kill 10 snowbeasts type quests) if I could take the quests 5-8 levels above my characters, I'd be happy with the update 12 level of non difficulty, so I got my immersion and others got to pewpew their way by dpsing only, and got easily to cap.



    As it is I think the move was in the right direction-levels 86-89, mounted uruks, and some escort quests, being the notable exeptions. These are being fixed in 13.1, it seems.
    I agree with this. I don't think a slider would be useful, but if enough want something like that as a 495TP pocket item, more power to them.

    Combat calculations are brittle to scaling. The magic formulas and numbers under the hood need to be redone. Once that is done, changes to mob AI would be more meaningful, I think. The whole process is iterative.

    @Calta. We know that adjustments to mob AI have been made. We know that the devs agree with the concept. HoarseDev, I believe or was it jwbarry, mentioned it. We should also remember the 'Stunland' complaints about mob specials in Dunland. Changing that contributed to the current situation.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    My opinion:
    I think landscape quests should be soloable by the majority. But, in my opinion, players should not be able to stand in the landscape, surrounded by mobs, go afk and still kill using auto-attack or pets or just not die. This is not farmville it is middle earth. edit: Perhaps instead provide a 'mobs do no damage' button or an 'invulnerable' pocket item sellable in the store, for those who would like it. (Any deeds done like this would not count, of course. But then these players wouldn't need those pesky virtues anyway.) I'd rather this, than expecting those who don't like it so easy to nerf themselves and the landscape.

    As it is I think update 13 got it right for the landscape with a few notable exceptions discussed at length elsewhere.

    Group content should not gate the main quest lines. But areas with optional group quests at all levels on the landscape would be nice.

    Tier 1 should be a bit harder but puggable half the time by first time group players on first attempt.
    Tier 2 should take practice on tier 1 or good group of experienced players and should need all class skills available
    Tier 3 or tier 2 CM should be expert level and any mistake should be punished.



    This doesn't make it more challenging. Nor does playing naked. It is just more tedious, if it still a mindless dps race that takes longer. This is the reason the slider idea would not work. It is the reason mits reduction had little effect on experienced players at most levels (some classes and levels excepted-as noted elsewhere.)

    When people like me say they want challenge they do not mean do half the damage or half the heals, they mean improve the AI and the make the mobs damage interesting. That is please add interesting mechanics-like reflects, debuffs, positioning, calls for help to nearby mobs, so my skills matter. Even if it is in a special area of landscape with big warning signs that can avoided by anyone who doesn't want to play that way.

    I repeat-Landscape should be fairly easy for all. In my experience on a level 47 light tactical it still exactly that but others seem to differ. Despite still being frustrated that mobs are so far apart and have such tiny aggro ranges these days that I can't chain pull on the landscape any more (it's so frustrating to have to run to chase the next one and lose my attunement when doing the kill 10 snowbeasts type quests) if I could take the quests 5-8 levels above my characters, I'd be happy with the update 12 level of non difficulty, so I got my immersion and others got to pewpew their way by dpsing only, and got easily to cap.



    As it is I think the move was in the right direction-levels 86-89, mounted uruks, and some escort quests, being the notable exeptions. These are being fixed in 13.1, it seems.
    I agree that tier 1 content should be puggable, but, say in t1, have t2 and t3 mechanics in there, but not to the same extend, like say 10% of t2 and 3 and above mechanics are in t1, to let the "first timers" to get a hang of what they do, but still not experience the full 100% mechanics needed, I think, as the tiers go up there should be different mechanics added, like say, for Trouble in Tuckborough, tier 1 is the standard farm everything that moves, and last boss
    tier 2 should say, have the farm everything that moves + 1 or 2 farms with 3 check points outside of tuckborough itself that need "liberating" and tier 3 have 4 farms, that have all 3 check points + a sub bosses but in order to unlock the main boss at the very end, you ahve to "liberate" the outlying farms, each farm has to be completed in a set amount of time (tier 3 would have 4 farms, 12 people, so 3 people per farm) and at the end, meet up at the end for the final boss fight

    do something like that in skirmishes, and that would be really fun IMHO

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload