We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 51 to 63 of 63
  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldeld View Post
    Noble effort, but the foundation the Moors is built on is flawed. There won't be any improvements that will ever get the swings to be small unless the game's PVMP is fundamentally revamped from the ground up. Every update will cause the scales to tip drastically one way or the other until they address the root cause.
    And in this case, if all of the classes mirrored eachother you would still have imbalances in between classes.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  2. #52
    "-Make balancing adjustments on a scale that can be accurately analyzed by putting creep morale pools, mitigations, bpe, resistance, inc healing, and damage/healing back in rough alignment with freep values (the game CAN be balanced without this, but doing so makes things much easier to analyze accurately)"

    I agree with most of your points, however this one sticks out. If you lower creep morale to freep levels, you will have freeps killing creeps very quickly because you can not adjust freep damage to a reasonable level because that would interfere with PvE. The only solution to this would be adding insane amounts of mitigations to the creeps to counter act the hunter DPS. The only way to counter act this is adding insane amounts of mitigations, wich would result in the lesser damage dealing classes dealing next to no damage, there are also a ton of other problems that cone with doing this.

    Also, I really like the fact that the two sides have different stats. It provides a unique aspect to LOTRO PvMP that is not seen elsewhere, and if done correctly, provide a much more dynamic form of balance than other games.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    How do you suggest they do this?

    The problem I see with roughly aligning creeps and freeps in terms of morale pools, mitigations, damage, healing etc. would be that the fights would be ridiculous damage-wise. You'd have people 1-shotting each other. Audacity would need to be changed. Healing would need to be tuned to actually combat spike damage instead of overhealing 90% of the time.
    ^ this....even though i agree i dont like the idea of having a rvr balance
    [IMG]http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz274/williamwegertjr/signigture_zps382aa4d5.jpg[/IMG]

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    And in this case, if all of the classes mirrored eachother you would still have imbalances in between classes.
    Yes, but the cost of figuring out those imbalances is significantly reduced when they're mirrored.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldeld View Post
    Yes, but the cost of figuring out those imbalances is significantly reduced when they're mirrored.
    Then how would you balance a captain going up against a reaver in a 1v1 environment. A captain that is designed to buff groups and has average solo skills (morale and dps), and a reaver that is designed that has good solo skills (DPS and morale)
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    Then how would you balance a captain going up against a reaver in a 1v1 environment. A captain that is designed to buff groups and has average solo skills (morale and dps), and a reaver that is designed that has good solo skills (DPS and morale)
    High survivability should not be coupled with high DPS as it is in a number of classes/trait lines.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    High survivability should not be coupled with high DPS as it is in a number of classes/trait lines.
    I know, but my point is that a class that has a specialization that is used mostly in group content, should be weaker 1v1 than a class that's main role is used in both group and solo content.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    I know, but my point is that a class that has a specialization that is used mostly in group content, should be weaker 1v1 than a class that's main role is used in both group and solo content.
    If that's the case, I think it's bad design to have a class that has no trait lines geared for solo play. And, no class, freep or creep, should have both high survivability and high DPS.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    "-Make balancing adjustments on a scale that can be accurately analyzed by putting creep morale pools, mitigations, bpe, resistance, inc healing, and damage/healing back in rough alignment with freep values (the game CAN be balanced without this, but doing so makes things much easier to analyze accurately)"

    I agree with most of your points, however this one sticks out. If you lower creep morale to freep levels, you will have freeps killing creeps very quickly because you can not adjust freep damage to a reasonable level because that would interfere with PvE. The only solution to this would be adding insane amounts of mitigations to the creeps to counter act the hunter DPS. The only way to counter act this is adding insane amounts of mitigations, wich would result in the lesser damage dealing classes dealing next to no damage, there are also a ton of other problems that cone with doing this.

    Also, I really like the fact that the two sides have different stats. It provides a unique aspect to LOTRO PvMP that is not seen elsewhere, and if done correctly, provide a much more dynamic form of balance than other games.
    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    ^ this....even though i agree i dont like the idea of having a rvr balance
    see below.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Give freeps a +200% Maximum Morale buff when entering the moors, put creeps at similar base levels as freeps and also apply that same buff (so both sides will be sitting at an approximately 40-90k morale pool, with similar damage output).
    Effects: Increased combat duration, lower effect of healing (meaning sustained dps matters again), and the near equality in morale pools/damage/healing on both sides.

    Having both sides at nearly equaly morale pool and damage/healing ranges will also make it easier to understand which hits are high, so no more. "that <insert freep class here> hits for 20k, but I only hit for 7k", while the 7k hit from a creep is actually slightly more powerful than a 20k hit from a freep, because of that morale difference.
    Massively different stats like morale pools does little to add to the 'depth' of the pvp experience. In your options change vital display to percentage from the default of Cur/Max and see if the game seems any different. Leaving things the other way is important for leaders/target callers to identify squishy targets, but otherwise i guarantee if you brought a brand new player to the moors who'd never seen a creep, and didn't let them look at their combat tab to see the damage disparity, they would have no idea a morale gap actually existed.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuddlepaws View Post
    I don't think most people here consider catapults a substantive change to PvP.
    .
    If they are implemented correctly, it should be a fairly solid zerg deterrent in which case I wholly welcome the change.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    see below.


    Massively different stats like morale pools does little to add to the 'depth' of the pvp experience. In your options change vital display to percentage from the default of Cur/Max and see if the game seems any different. Leaving things the other way is important for leaders/target callers to identify squishy targets, but otherwise i guarantee if you brought a brand new player to the moors who'd never seen a creep, and didn't let them look at their combat tab to see the damage disparity, they would have no idea a morale gap actually existed.
    Ok sure.
    Im for it but the numbers will definitely need to be refined.
    Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
    Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,874
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldeld View Post
    Noble effort, but the foundation the Moors is built on is flawed.
    Based on what?

    The flaws as I see them have always come from a lack of resource and priority allocation in each update.
    That is, when the rest of the game changes, PvMP doesn't. That I think is the 'foundational problem'.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,874
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    see below.


    Massively different stats like morale pools does little to add to the 'depth' of the pvp experience. In your options change vital display to percentage from the default of Cur/Max and see if the game seems any different. Leaving things the other way is important for leaders/target callers to identify squishy targets, but otherwise i guarantee if you brought a brand new player to the moors who'd never seen a creep, and didn't let them look at their combat tab to see the damage disparity, they would have no idea a morale gap actually existed.
    If this would have been done in more significant updates in the past, over time they would definitely have noticed quite a few fundamental differences in allocated ratio's of stats and utilities between the factions.

 

 
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload