We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 226
  1. #151

    Exactly Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    Plus, in cases where the broad strokes are set in stone (mounted combat, trait trees, epic battles), I'd encourage people to put the effort into suggestions for making them better rather than fighting against their existence.

    I have seen over and over on the forum where players want to erase entirely. Not only is that unlikely to happen, I think a focus like that will more often lead to more negativity as a whole. That isn't good for the player, the community, or LOTRO.

    I like that Turbine takes some chances on new types of gameplay. Hytbold at level 85 may not have been everyone's cup of tea, but I thought it was pretty amazing having the place come back to life bit by bit as I played. Mounted combat and warbands, on the other hand, were not things I took to at first. I disliked what I felt was a lack of control in movement and having to learn a completely different style of fighting was frustrating. Then I got the hang of it. Started to win more than I lost. Started to enjoy doing something different than what I'd been all but locked into for 80 levels.

    Now I am learning epic battles. Again, I did not start off too well with them. I am picking up tips here and there, but the system seems very clunky at the outset (and getting people in there at level 10 may lead to more frustration than enjoyment). I don't want them gone, though. I want them improved. I hope the Players Council can have input on where those improvements should be and I hope Turbine keeps taking chances on new things.
    Thornglen is exactly right. Turbine should be applauded for its changes and additions. Players should say what parts they love and what parts drive them away. In doing so, they not only influence Turbine but other players. Due to Thornglen's comments, I am going to give epic battles another try.

    Good luck to the new council. Have a great time and be eloquent!

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,517
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    What the members do represent are their particular play-styles and voices, whether it matches others is a bonus.
    Which is why an anthropophobic soloer has as much right to be on the council as any other player, or at least as much right to be considered. Obviously they would have to rein in that phobia if selected, though I suspect that sort of individual would likely chose not to participate in the first place. But regardless, even that person can give good input on things like: housing, cosmetics, decor, difficulty, quest progression, etc. There is a lot that can be done in an MMO without interacting with others.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  3. #153
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    It doesn't really answer my question. Basically, if someone doesn't interact with the community - what help are they in this council context?
    I think the problem you are having is with your exceptionally narrow definition of the community. The official forums are used (and by that I mean posted to, not read) but a percentage of the player community that is in the low teens (which is about average for gaming communities). Which means the vast, and I do mean vast I'm not speaking rhetorically here, majority of players don't post here. So saying participating in one of the smallest portions of the community is somehow indicative of their activity in the game or value on the council isn't really valid.

    To give you some idea, consider that the downtime message for this week was read by about 2,000 players here on the forums. The exact same message was read by more than 10x that number on Facebook. Consider also, that every time anyone reads a post here the counter goes up. So if someone is following a thread, they may personally represent 50 'views' of that thread. While on something like Facebook, 1 read = 1 person no matter how many times they read it.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I think the problem you are having is with your exceptionally narrow definition of the community. The official forums are used (and by that I mean posted to, not read) but a percentage of the player community that is in the low teens (which is about average for gaming communities). Which means the vast, and I do mean vast I'm not speaking rhetorically here, majority of players don't post here. So saying participating in one of the smallest portions of the community is somehow indicative of their activity in the game or value on the council isn't really valid.

    To give you some idea, consider that the downtime message for this week was read by about 2,000 players here on the forums. The exact same message was read by more than 10x that number on Facebook. Consider also, that every time anyone reads a post here the counter goes up. So if someone is following a thread, they may personally represent 50 'views' of that thread. While on something like Facebook, 1 read = 1 person no matter how many times they read it.
    Exactly. I have never posted on the forums prior to the Council ...

    but I've played the game since 2008. I KNOW the game and I'm active on my Server, in my Kin, etc.

    Just because I don't read the Official LOTRO forums doesn't mean I don't have any business giving feedback.
    The one ... the only ... Meow.

  5. #155
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    9,519
    Quote Originally Posted by KayleahSunshine View Post
    Exactly. I have never posted on the forums prior to the Council ...

    but I've played the game since 2008. I KNOW the game and I'm active on my Server, in my Kin, etc.

    Just because I don't read the Official LOTRO forums doesn't mean I don't have any business giving feedback.
    This. It goes directly to something players asked when we announced the council two years ago. How do we know that people who don't have a voice in the forums are still represented and heard from. This is how. By adding long time players who are active in game, not necessarily in the forums, to the council. Hearing from the real silent majority if you will..

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    There has never been a requirement to interact with the community, albeit it was sometimes a good idea, as the members do not represent them. What the members do represent are their particular play-styles and voices, whether it matches others is a bonus.

    The same misconception people have from the first Council seems to be prevailing this time around...the members of the council are not representative of the players, they are a voice of the players. The help they provide is to allow the Developers to interact with the actual players in an environment that is proven to be far more capable of keeping on task.
    Indeed:

    council n.
    1.a. An assembly of persons called together for consultation, deliberation, or discussion.
    representative n.
    1. One that serves as an example or type for others of the same classification.
    Those definitions perfectly describe the LOTRO Players Council...

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    4,101
    Sapience I admire because he really is actively acting as a conduit for ideas and a human voice with a keen sense of what's happening in the community. I thought the council was supposed to be doing just that, from our point of view. I have been told some bit back up the thread that this is not correct. I accept that.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Local cluster
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Hearing from the real silent majority if you will..
    I must say that I find the romanticization of said 'majority' (and especially the unspoken assumption that this is a single, coherent group with shared interests that differ markedly from 'non-silent' foruming players) somewhat puzzling.

    Darkcntry: that's not quite accurate still. They are players with voices, but not 'voices of the players'; the latter suggests representation, the former emphasizes the fact that they are the only players with institutionalized voice. The other players literally has no guarantee that their PoV will be heard by the devs, whereas the council members can be fairly sure that they will be heard, even if their concerns will never have any weight beyond the weight granted to them by the devs who decide to listen to them.

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, IN
    Posts
    270
    *waves* I'm another one of those PC members who doesn't post on the forums much. I read them daily, however. I also don't participate much in the insanity of glff\globallff on my favorite servers, but I do follow those, and often respond through tells. Can you imagine what the forums would be like if every player posted here on a regular basis? Another good thing might be to consider some of us might not post a response to a thread simply because the op or subsequent responders might have already articulated our opinion. That, or we might have such an opinion out in left field that others might consider us crazy. (that's often me) I am very excited to bring my "out of the box" point of view to the Player Council, and look forward to reading\hearing others also.

    Wait...how have I accumulated over 100 posts? It doesn't feel like I've posted that much.
    Amandakay (Arkenstone), refugee from Elendilmir
    Amorina (Laurelin)
    Hallaniel and Harweniel (Landroval)
    Lilta and Zyphrantha (Gladden)
    Bruyera (Sirannon), refugee from Estel

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    Sapience I admire because he really is actively acting as a conduit for ideas and a human voice with a keen sense of what's happening in the community. I thought the council was supposed to be doing just that, from our point of view. I have been told some bit back up the thread that this is not correct. I accept that.
    Actually, the council NDA is pretty strict. Once they start discussing something on the council forum, they CANNOT discuss it further anywhere else. This, unfortunately, reinforces the idea of not listening. I can tell you that is not the case. A ton of ideas were brought to different members from a variety of sources. Some had their PM boxes clogged by stuff. Sapience has more discretion about what he can and cannot talk about. The council has none. Like some of the others, until the council my post count was probably in the teens. But I frequently read many threads. Now, I read more. Send your ideas to the council, PM them, put them in the suggestion thread (everyone really does read that). But understand that right now, you'll never really know how far it goes. Hopefully they decide to change that this year, we'll see.

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    They are players with voices, but not 'voices of the players'; the latter suggests representation, the former emphasizes the fact that they are the only players with institutionalized voice. The other players literally has no guarantee that their PoV will be heard by the devs, whereas the council members can be fairly sure that they will be heard, even if their concerns will never have any weight beyond the weight granted to them by the devs who decide to listen to them.
    You're right. I think it would be more accurate to say they are a voice FOR the players. Not OF. If nothing else they can put a face to things. They are also fairly well representative OF the larger player base. As in they have many of the same views, concerns, interest of the various "groups" in the game.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Somewhere in the wilderness
    Posts
    68
    Congrats to all who made the cut for the 2014 PC!
    Hope you all have a lot of fun getting your hands good and dirty.

    And thanks again to the 2013 crew. What a brave lot you have been. Welcome back to Earth.
    [URL="http://www.sigcreator.com/"][IMG]http://www.sigcreator.com/generatedsigs/2092919610lotro_lotro32.png[/IMG][/URL]

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Decatur, AL
    Posts
    5,572
    Congrats to my fellow council members and thank you to everyone else I am looking forward to this year!
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
    .: Dannach, 100 WDN :.: Daire, 83 LMR :.: Gyrefalcon, 92 CHN :.: Brandon, 72 CPT :.: Honey, 71 GRD :.: Griffon, 69 HNT :.: Kaelenea, 72 RNK :.
    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 50 HNT :.

    I am the master of my fate. I am the captain of my soul.
    Might as well face it, I'm addicted to WDN

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fremont, CA
    Posts
    465
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    I must say that I find the romanticization of said 'majority' (and especially the unspoken assumption that this is a single, coherent group with shared interests that differ markedly from 'non-silent' foruming players) somewhat puzzling.
    Without even trying too hard I can think of one topic, as you will, that would probably fairly roundly fit the majority of the 80%+ of the community that doesn't use the forums, that would likely be markedly different from "non-silent" forum users, and that would be Casual non-PvP play. Sure, there are some forum users who also advocate for that kind of playstyle, but it typically pales in comparison to the fairly incessant advocacy for PvMP changes, and Raids/Instance Clusters that we see here, despite being told incessantly what the plans are.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Reximus View Post
    Without even trying too hard I can think of one topic, as you will, that would probably fairly roundly fit the majority of the 80%+ of the community that doesn't use the forums, that would likely be markedly different from "non-silent" forum users, and that would be Casual non-PvP play. Sure, there are some forum users who also advocate for that kind of playstyle, but it typically pales in comparison to the fairly incessant advocacy for PvMP changes, and Raids/Instance Clusters that we see here, despite being told incessantly what the plans are.
    Please refrain from making assumptions and throwing percentages around. If you do NOT know the actual numbers, do not use them. I hope that ALL play-styles will be listened to, even if the chances appear slim (given the outcome from HD). Silent majority, vocal minority - they all care about the game, whether it suits you or not.
    No sig whatsoever... oh wait....

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Elisawen View Post
    Please refrain from making assumptions and throwing percentages around. If you do NOT know the actual numbers, do not use them. I hope that ALL play-styles will be listened to, even if the chances appear slim (given the outcome from HD). Silent majority, vocal minority - they all care about the game, whether it suits you or not.

    And another thing to factor in, is that the PC is just one of many forms of feedback that Turbine use and nobody in game is silent, if they just log in sit in bree for 5 mins then log out, this gets noticed, as they say actions are louder then words.

    I like the idea of focus groups, they have proven to work in all walks of life at the Qualitative level, and to call it a council is ok in the same way it was ok for Elrond to have a secret council.

    The council members give up their spare time to improve the game its a very commendable thing to do.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Bragard View Post
    And another thing to factor in, is that the PC is just one of many forms of feedback that Turbine use and nobody in game is silent, if they just log in sit in bree for 5 mins then log out, this gets noticed, as they say actions are louder then words.

    I like the idea of focus groups, they have proven to work in all walks of life at the Qualitative level, and to call it a council is ok in the same way it was ok for Elrond to have a secret council.

    The council members give up their spare time to improve the game its a very commendable thing to do.
    This is a very good point.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    4,424
    Quote Originally Posted by Elisawen View Post
    Please refrain from making assumptions and throwing percentages around. If you do NOT know the actual numbers, do not use them. I hope that ALL play-styles will be listened to, even if the chances appear slim (given the outcome from HD). Silent majority, vocal minority - they all care about the game, whether it suits you or not.
    Nobody knows the actual numbers except Turbine, yet we all throw numbers around as "opinion". If nobody could use numbers that weren't "factual" nobody would be able to post, LOL. Either way you can be sure there are a lot of different viewpoints on the Council. As I said before, this should be a fascinating year.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN: Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10 + alts CRICKHOLLOW: Moochy, 21 Minstrel

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,261
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    Nobody knows the actual numbers except Turbine, yet we all throw numbers around as "opinion". If nobody could use numbers that weren't "factual" nobody would be able to post, LOL. Either way you can be sure there are a lot of different viewpoints on the Council. As I said before, this should be a fascinating year.
    Yeah it will. You guys get to figure out the new class. Good luck with that. LOL

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    Nobody knows the actual numbers except Turbine, yet we all throw numbers around as "opinion". If nobody could use numbers that weren't "factual" nobody would be able to post, LOL. Either way you can be sure there are a lot of different viewpoints on the Council. As I said before, this should be a fascinating year.
    Really? We all do that? Fascinating indeed
    No sig whatsoever... oh wait....

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in Middle-Earth
    Posts
    140
    Quote Originally Posted by Runesi_EU View Post
    The PC is meant to be representative of the player base, not be the player bases representatives.
    One could say that's the same thing. Tomato tomato. The thing is not every one thinks alike. A council implies you are there to represent a certain group of like minds. If it's just to represent only their views then you aren't representative of the player base at all. It's just one facet of the player base. There is no way to even get feedback if you aren't allowed to discuss or put out a hypothetical scenario out there to see/gauge the player base reaction to certain changes that may or may not be implemented in a future update. Your answer strikes me as we do but we don't. You either do or you don't you can't be both. I think the backlash that the past PC got was due to the simple fact that there was no polling of what the players really thought. An example is look at the rather volatile reaction to the new class and the dismissal of updating the housing. The player base wanted the update to housing. The player base wants more options on a lot of levels but so far nothing has happened and faith is being lost in that lack of action.

    I honestly hope some good comes out of this year's PC though I have my doubts anything will be done. But that isn't the fault of the PC by any means so don't get me wrong there
    Tessariel Aerlinn of Landroval
    Elven Minstrel of Rivendell
    Member of Sons of Numenor

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallon617 View Post
    One could say that's the same thing. Tomato tomato. The thing is not every one thinks alike. A council implies you are there to represent a certain group of like minds. If it's just to represent only their views then you aren't representative of the player base at all. It's just one facet of the player base. There is no way to even get feedback if you aren't allowed to discuss or put out a hypothetical scenario out there to see/gauge the player base reaction to certain changes that may or may not be implemented in a future update. Your answer strikes me as we do but we don't. You either do or you don't you can't be both. I think the backlash that the past PC got was due to the simple fact that there was no polling of what the players really thought. An example is look at the rather volatile reaction to the new class and the dismissal of updating the housing. The player base wanted the update to housing. The player base wants more options on a lot of levels but so far nothing has happened and faith is being lost in that lack of action.

    I honestly hope some good comes out of this year's PC though I have my doubts anything will be done. But that isn't the fault of the PC by any means so don't get me wrong there
    Well the 2013 PC got a LOT done. But it's old history now. Rank Farming, CoC rewrite, Riding Traits, Festivals, Trait Trees (good bad and indifferent), quests, raids, pvmp, cosmetics, RP, Kinships, Housing, Area Revamps along with the Forum Re-Organization, Turbine Documentation Archive Forum (so you can find what they said and when) and you know after over a year, I've forgotten most of the topics because they come so fast you have to move along to the next ones.

    Additionally, topics from the forums were pulled into new or existing PC topics and even after an official topic was concluded we didn't stop, we kept piling on the comments, suggestions and revisiting criticisms or re-opening issues with new concerns or approvals. Even some topics not included in our mandate made it into the PC forums. My personal one (although not admired by some on the PC) was security and privacy issues, including updates coming from the EU and SA, changes to Safe Harbor provisions and other rather nasty bits, just to make sure the Devs and the Management at Turbine, keep their eyes on the prize which includes our player base in the EU.

    However, you are 100% correct in that the PC has NO CONTROL over what actually happens inside Turbine. The PC has no control or say about their development schedule, what goes on or comes off their design timeline, the order of projects, quests or upgrades. At best we can request a postponement of something that's really green-as-grass but we cannot "force" them to perform/create/carryout or address different areas no matter how popular they are in the forums, the game players or media.

    Turbine has more than one way of finding out about what players like, don't like, do or don't do. There's a lot on the inside they can "see", analytics up the ying-yang. If you play in one area, they know it, if you don't they know that too.

    I coined a phrase: Sapience's Whinging Ratio. This number represents the number of players someone "thinks" accesses any aspect of the game vs the real numbers. Phrases like: some, many, all, everyone (or their implied usage) are lead ins to the Sapience Whinging Ratio. You can spot this in PVMP forums, Raiding forums, and nearly every area. It was very hard for the 2013 PC to accept that some areas are just not popular over all, even if they get a lot of action in the forums, /glff or from other venues.

    There are some things that are not in the mandate of the PC and sometimes that includes items that appear to be very popular but that for reasons only known to Turbine are not on the table. No matter what is said or requested. Sometimes things are put on the table and removed. These are not in the control of the PC and there's little that can be done that you are not already doing here: telling them that you want X and why you want X.

    Continue to voice your desires, ideas and suggestions here in the forums. They will be noted, not just by PC members but by Turbine themselves. And next year, apply to the PC for 2015.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6,018
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallon617 View Post
    One could say that's the same thing. Tomato tomato. The thing is not every one thinks alike. A council implies you are there to represent a certain group of like minds. If it's just to represent only their views then you aren't representative of the player base at all. It's just one facet of the player base. There is no way to even get feedback if you aren't allowed to discuss or put out a hypothetical scenario out there to see/gauge the player base reaction to certain changes that may or may not be implemented in a future update. Your answer strikes me as we do but we don't. You either do or you don't you can't be both. I think the backlash that the past PC got was due to the simple fact that there was no polling of what the players really thought. An example is look at the rather volatile reaction to the new class and the dismissal of updating the housing. The player base wanted the update to housing. The player base wants more options on a lot of levels but so far nothing has happened and faith is being lost in that lack of action.

    I honestly hope some good comes out of this year's PC though I have my doubts anything will be done. But that isn't the fault of the PC by any means so don't get me wrong there
    I think you're off base. The Council is a sounding board, designed to be a sample of the player base. A voice for the players. Will that be a perfect sample? No., but it doesn't have to be perfect. It has to be good enough.

    There are other means of getting feedback, and to the greatest extent possible, it is gathered in as close to a random, blind fashion as it is possible. Thus, no forum/internet polling. Even launcher polling has to deal with self-selection. Even Beta polling, which is done, has survivor and self-selection biases.

    Just because neither you nor anyone you know was surveyed, doesn't mean said surveying wasn't done. I've been involved in some surveys outside of the game/betas.

    You've heard of Harris/Nielsen/Gallup, etc surveys. Until I was surveyed by Nielesn, twice, I had not nor anyone that I knew of, had been in a Nielsen survey. To my recollection, I've yet to be picked for a Harris/Gallup political poll. What's the difference? The ratings/political polling firms publish the questions and/or the results. Private businesses don't do that, especially for products in the planning or production phases.
    Last edited by cdq1958; Apr 25 2014 at 08:57 PM. Reason: grammar and clarity
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,926
    Quote Originally Posted by Palentian View Post
    Yeah it will. You guys get to figure out the new class. Good luck with that. LOL
    Gotta say, I really don't envy them for that job.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  25. #175
    After hearing the discussion of what the function of the PC is, and the ACTUAL definition of what they ARE, well....

    Why do we even have a player council?

    They are single people not representatives.
    They have absolutely NO ability to make changes.
    Their actual interaction with US, as a whole, is entirely voluntary.

    Wow....I was all for a PC before....I really was.

    It's like children during wedding planning...they get asked...but it really doesn't matter what they say. We (Turbine) just get to say they had input.
    Holding on by the last hair on the dwarfs beard.

 

 
Page 7 of 10 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload