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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittcrew1 View Post
    Not sure if this has been said like I'm saying (havent had time to read all of this) but the biggest issue for me is that it's a big time sink, and you aren't guaranteed anything, ever, except from tokens. This angers people because they made the first appearance of cosmetic pets for normal classes only attainable through luck - that's it. Sapience and the dev team, as you know from the or one of the latest TTHTI runs, said that they wanted to reward people for hard work. It is not hard work to run these quests 50 times and not get anything, not when someone else can get it on their first run (and someone on one of the TTHTI runs, maybe even the same one had the pet)! I don't care how long it takes to get them, but I hate that it is based on luck, no matter how lucky I am.

    I really think they should have made a deed that increments for each completion of any Seed quest, and once you get to a certain amount of completions, say 15 (or more, I don't know, just making it up), you get an item that starts a quest that you turn in to Quickbeam, which rewards you your choice of the pets. Then there is another incremental deed after that that takes either another 15, or more (or less really, it's not like you can use 2 at the same time), so that you can obtain the others. Then there should be a third deed for the last one. But I would also keep a low drop rate directly from boxes, and make the pets from boxes BtA to avoid angry people who get duplicates (or filter out the acquisition of ones you have, but I don't know if Turbine can do that, I have never seen a system like that to date). This would give us incentive to do the quests, instead of just getting sick of RNG and mad at Turbine and potentially leaving over a stupid thing. The issue is you have no progression as it is.

    I mean I could do these quests 500 times, taking about 6 years I think, and never get a pet on any of my characters; yet someone could get it within the first 5. That does not, in any way, represent "hard work".
    If you read that stream the way I did, this is what comes across to me. They (Turbine) was not sure how well the player base would receive the new pets. They made them really hard to get and only by the pRNG to keep them very rare until they could gauge how popular (and if there would be technical trouble, such as more lag, from them) they would be. I don't expect the current system to stay as it is. I rather expect a fairly long but guaranteed system to come along later. I would not be surprised to see these sold in the Skirmish Camp Curiosities vendor at some point, added to the Store, or even given out with expansions in the future.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  2. #102
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    Dec 2011
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    872
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    Well, for me the Entwood is very... entish. The seed-quest is the only one I can do since all Quieting -quests are bugged (I got to do one quest, and the rest of them have been unavailable to me ever since). So, I get about 700 rep every five days (if I play about 5 minutes every day), so I will reach kindred faction around Christmas 2017
    The crafting instances and their sub-tasks award rep too..

  3. #103
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    On my hunter I have been doing each of the crafting instances for the rep. you also get like 300 rep for each of the sub quests in the instances. The part is find depressing is I need the rep so im doing all 3 instances but I can only collect the wood from the 1 instance. :-(


    Also, I have been doing the "seed" quests on the same toon. So far I think ive completed 3 of the seed quest chains. I have gotten "10 Fangorn Leaves", "Fangorn Hourn yard decoration", "Snowy Fangorn Hourn yard decoration".

    Have not seen any deeds listed for the Quests in the Derndingle, Fangorn area. The rep I have seen so far from completing the quests seems to be for Fangorn. The epic quests for the flooded isengard didnt have any rep listed when i completed the quests.

    As for regular loot from the mobs ive collect lots of hides for tailor, same fur bearing bears and doggies give task items that can be used for the hemmingas rep in helms deep. and ive also gotten the the other various task board items from the humanoids for the hemmingas. This was a big help as i now have 3 characters at kindred with hemmingas rep, soon to be 5.


    Hope this helps
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  4. #104
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    Depressing is doing the seed quests 3 times and getting 10 leaves each time.

    One the plus side I am glad I finished stewards of fangorn in that time.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by guguzza71 View Post
    Depressing is doing the seed quests 3 times and getting 10 leaves each time.

    One the plus side I am glad I finished stewards of fangorn in that time.
    That would be where I am at the moment
    <grumbles at RNG>

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by guguzza71 View Post
    Depressing is doing the seed quests 3 times and getting 10 leaves each time.

    One the plus side I am glad I finished stewards of fangorn in that time.
    7 times here, still nothing but leaves.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman76 View Post
    That would be where I am at the moment
    <grumbles at RNG>
    Same. Very annoying.
    Tarphindiel~Hu~100, Tolella~Mi~86, Ryeberry~Gu~80, Torfrik~Rk~80, Arindis~Be~60
    Meleras~Wd~50, Minethril~Ca~49, Diorwen~Ch~44, Indiria~Lm~38, Alanda~Bu~32
    And Fourteen Other Alts
    Founder of Gladden's "The Fellowship of the Ping"

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Same. Very annoying.
    Make it 4 now

  9. #109
    I had 2 characters that were literally 1 day away from completing the quest, as i'd been doing it the past 4 days. Now i log in and the quest has reset? Does that mean i have to wait another 5 days for the reward? This was in the patch notes today:

    "Quieting Quests – FIXED!
    Quickbeam will now have a Quieting quest for everyone every day. The reset timer was accidentally being removed during login. So any players that still had any Quieting repeatable quest underway at the 3 am reset time could not pick up a new Quieting quest no matter how long they waited. That timer will now be properly maintained. Additionally, any players who currently have a quest retry with no timer display will be fixed as soon as they login to 13.1 and will be able to pick up a new Quieting quest right away."

    Of course i bugged it (as i was annoyed) and the GM sent the link to the notes. When it says that there will be a Quieting quest every day, does that mean there's only a 1 day wait? I have no idea what these notes are trying to say.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by MalonSaria View Post
    I had 2 characters that were literally 1 day away from completing the quest, as i'd been doing it the past 4 days. Now i log in and the quest has reset? Does that mean i have to wait another 5 days for the reward? This was in the patch notes today:

    "Quieting Quests – FIXED!
    Quickbeam will now have a Quieting quest for everyone every day. The reset timer was accidentally being removed during login. So any players that still had any Quieting repeatable quest underway at the 3 am reset time could not pick up a new Quieting quest no matter how long they waited. That timer will now be properly maintained. Additionally, any players who currently have a quest retry with no timer display will be fixed as soon as they login to 13.1 and will be able to pick up a new Quieting quest right away."

    Of course i bugged it (as i was annoyed) and the GM sent the link to the notes. When it says that there will be a Quieting quest every day, does that mean there's only a 1 day wait? I have no idea what these notes are trying to say.
    That has nothing to do with the seed quest, its a completly different quest.

    And yes not only was mine reset but the soil it is telling me to use can't be interacted with.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2521c00000004dc6e/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    The smaller the chance of getting a desired reward, the more difficult it is to get, luck or no. That seems fairly obvious to me. Sure, it's not the same level/type of challenge as Ivar's Helm, but I am personally glad that there is no guarantee of getting the huorn pet. It means it's a lot more special if/when I finally do get it. And because there are 3 versions, the chances of getting any one specific huorn is even lower. I like that. Just like Nanu's hding place, or the statue of Draigoch, or Draigoch's fireplace - these are all items that are exciting to get. They would be a lot less exciting if everyone had a guarantee of getting them after a certain amount of tries.

    The possibility of lucking out and getting Draigoch's fireplace, or the statue, makes me excited to run Draigoch. The chance of getting a huorn makes me excited to run the seed quests. As much as people complain, if they really want the huorn pet the will keep running them too.
    Welcome to the Skinner box, keep mashing that pellet button.

    Ultimate hard to get items that requires taking time everyday to do rather than doing something you remotely enjoy is fine for something truly useful but a cosmetic item has no uses at all. If you are going to want to get inside the Skinner Box and have an ultra rare RNG chance of getting the hardest to obtain item but 99.9999999% chance you will get the same useless junk then the item needs to be something worth spending the time. Maybe an account bound special token/scroll to make a first age weapon that has all the upgrades for 30 extra levels already implemented that is applied to any lvl 75/85/95 third age weapon to make into the special first age. Something like that would truly be worth doing the 3 daily quests 100 times, but a chance of 1 of 3 cosmetic pets? Absurd.

    A proper Skinner box for cosmetic pets would be the pets should be 9 pets, 3 types with 3 color variations of each at the very least. Goal is collect all of them to complete a deed that rewards 1 special unique non combat pet version that has an extra 45 second temporary non op combat pet call feature with a long cool down in the 60-120 minute range. That's just the reward, the pellet button is getting a random loot box from specific enemies in specific areas. Loot box chance of dropping is low and the RNG for the pets you can get are in a curve where the last one in the deed is the hardest to get and the first one you will get quite often. You may get lucky and get the last in the list in the first box you open and that is bragging rights itself. All the extra pets can be traded in for top tier barter tokens so there is no "Unique item! You get nothing sucker!" lack of reward... reward that some companies think is perfectly fine to bestow upon their customers(looking at you Turbine). That would make more players desire to work towards doing the pellet mashing because they get a reward each time, there is progression to keep completionists in OCD mode and those with real OCD mashing the pellet button like mad. Also gives everyone a chance at a fluff item cosmetic pet with ever increasing chances of the ultimate uber pet everyone envies.

    Still a Skinner box though. (I need to get to mashing my button now).

    *Edit
    Also about the non combat pet Skinner box, it needs to be obtainable by atleast 25% of the population doing it before the next content comes out even obtainable within the first week if the RNG gods prove favorable to some lucky players. Players need to see it in action or at the very least see others have it to make them want it more. 25% across all the servers is a small drop in the bucket for a single servers population so that not huge numbers obtaining the hardest to get of items but rather enough to make people drool and get onto the pellet button. The pellet button needs reward for mashing it but also needs a time limit because there are plenty of other MMO's with their own Skinner boxes demanding players attention and I think that's why LOTRO has had a huge drop in players in the last 2 years. Not enough rewards given to make players do it as they advance in levels and boredom quickly sets in. A small portion of the population having the best stuff does wonders for getting the rest working hard to obtain the same stuff, that's human nature to try to keep up with the neighbors so some neighbors need to have the goodies and people need to see others obtaining them during the time they are working on it. Nobody getting them in a month means nobody will be trying in a month, nobody trying means they are doing something else like maybe a competitors game where they are getting the rewards in a more reasonable pace.
    Last edited by jet1971; May 06 2014 at 05:28 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000307b65/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #112
    Ironically enough I've now got 2 pets on my metalsmith crafting alt who needs leaves to buy recipes and lots of 10-leaf rewards on my main who has nothing to spend them on and wants the pets.

    I have been saying for years that Turbine's addiction to the RNG is the single most depressing thing about the game. All rewards - repeat, ALL - should be available through barter items or simple gold, gated by content completion (deeds, rep, quests, whatever).

    At the very least, barter items such as leaves should be bound to account not to character.
    [CENTER]Tarmas Elf Champion R13 | Tarmeg Elf Guardian R6 | Tarmil 95 Elf Warden | Tarmun Elf Hunter R6 | Tarmot Elf Minstrel R6 | Tarmyr Elf Loremaster R6
    Strawn Reaver R6 | Strawz Warg R6 | Strawk Blackarrow R6 | Strawx Warleader R6 | Strawb Defiler R6 | Strawt Weaver R6[/CENTER]

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmas_Eldar View Post
    I have been saying for years that Turbine's addiction to the RNG is the single most depressing thing about the game.
    This.

    I opened 8 boxes so far, no sign of a huorn pet.
    I was planning on buying TP to buy 250 Mithril coins with the sale going on, but I will skip it this time. No joy, no money.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman76 View Post
    Make it 4 now
    Got the Black Hourn today, weee. And it looks great.

  15. #115
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    Got the Fangorn Huorn yard decor Orofarne's Memory box. It's a lot larger than I expected, considering it's a "small" yard decoration.




    Tarphindiel~Hu~100, Tolella~Mi~86, Ryeberry~Gu~80, Torfrik~Rk~80, Arindis~Be~60
    Meleras~Wd~50, Minethril~Ca~49, Diorwen~Ch~44, Indiria~Lm~38, Alanda~Bu~32
    And Fourteen Other Alts
    Founder of Gladden's "The Fellowship of the Ping"

  16. #116
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    It sounds to me like a small content update with inflated grind to make it appear bigger. I've spent a total now 6 hours trying the new content.
    So now instead of evil raiders and groupers being the only victims of the RNG, everyone now gets to see it's glory (or severe lack there of).
    In what areas does the RNG effect loot/rewards now?:
    1. Group instances
    2. Epic Battles
    3. Solo quests
    4. Free hobbit presents

    Then you have things like Hytbold/Wildermore that is inflated grind due to the randomcity of the quests offered. Then you have things like the warband gold tokens in Wildermore. Seriously when does randomocity end and clear solutions begin?

    Expect more of this. And really the players disapproval of this system should be so loud that EVERY developer can hear it.

    Would you rather be able to get 10 leaves 4 times a week and have the pet barter able at say 250 leaves?
    (this still drags out the content making it seem inflated, but at least you know where you stand)

    Or would you rather bank on the dumb luck of the RNG? Where you may never win the item EVER. And then other players will rub it in your face that it took them 1 or 2 tries.

    Me, I like to see my efforts rewarded. I like to know up front what it's going to take. I will always support a barter system over the pulling of a slot machine handle hoping this time is the big win, only to be disappointed more and more with each spin of the wheel. pull of the handle or draw of the cards.

    This is called discouragement. It builds with each loss. And when you finally get the item your after in this system it's only a small relief. Because the next item you want will rewarded the exact same way. Causing even more discouragement. Until you have lost that player.

    If you let one developer get away with something like this what's to say that it isn't ok for others to follow suit.

    While this mentality works in a casino where people can win actual money. It doesn't here because all you win are pixels. Pixels that are mostly obsolete with in weeks or months. While a permanent pet/lawn ornament is much different from the usual loot as it is permanent, players should not be treated this way in any video game when it comes to working towards a goal.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    It sounds to me like a small content update with inflated grind to make it appear bigger. I've spent a total now 6 hours trying the new content.
    So now instead of evil raiders and groupers being the only victims of the RNG, everyone now gets to see it's glory (or severe lack there of).
    In what areas does the RNG effect loot/rewards now?:
    1. Group instances
    2. Epic Battles
    3. Solo quests
    4. Free hobbit presents

    Then you have things like Hytbold/Wildermore that is inflated grind due to the randomcity of the quests offered. Then you have things like the warband gold tokens in Wildermore. Seriously when does randomocity end and clear solutions begin?

    Expect more of this. And really the players disapproval of this system should be so loud that EVERY developer can hear it.

    Would you rather be able to get 10 leaves 4 times a week and have the pet barter able at say 250 leaves?
    (this still drags out the content making it seem inflated, but at least you know where you stand)

    Or would you rather bank on the dumb luck of the RNG? Where you may never win the item EVER. And then other players will rub it in your face that it took them 1 or 2 tries.

    Me, I like to see my efforts rewarded. I like to know up front what it's going to take. I will always support a barter system over the pulling of a slot machine handle hoping this time is the big win, only to be disappointed more and more with each spin of the wheel. pull of the handle or draw of the cards.

    This is called discouragement. It builds with each loss. And when you finally get the item your after in this system it's only a small relief. Because the next item you want will rewarded the exact same way. Causing even more discouragement. Until you have lost that player.

    If you let one developer get away with something like this what's to say that it isn't ok for others to follow suit.

    While this mentality works in a casino where people can win actual money. It doesn't here because all you win are pixels. Pixels that are mostly obsolete with in weeks or months. While a permanent pet/lawn ornament is much different from the usual loot as it is permanent, players should not be treated this way in any video game when it comes to working towards a goal.
    Reward for effort system. Deeding is a perfect example of a reward for effort system, kill 150 Wargs you get 5 TP and advanced deed. Kill 300 more Wargs and you get 10 TP and a Virtue reward that makes your character stronger. There's decent rewards for the effort in the TP alone but completing the advanced deed and getting all the rewards is a sweet thing making players want to work on the next deed. Reward is given and is good enough to make you chase the next big reward to come along. RNG is not a good thing here and it can still be a Skinner Box keeping you playing by gating it with a cooldown or X number of levels per day like class deeds.

    Every game needs RNG because RNG creates variety and variety is the spice of life. But set goals to work towards and accomplish is equally important. When one completes a goal that takes time and effort there is just as much joy as winning a lottery but ther4e is also the pride of accomplishment. The 2 combined is a better feeling than winning a lottery.

    *Edit,
    Forgot "Relief" When there is a set goal like 300 wargs and the stupid things are spread out far and wide and it takes forever to complete even if you 1 hit kill them there is relief when you complete it. "Finally that one is done!!!". Relief that it is over, joy from getting the reward and a sense of accomplishment from doing it. That's a triple hitter of good feelings compared to a single won a lottery that could be either the first try for never ever happen. The longer a lottery is tried with no quality rewards builds "discouragement" as explained in the quoted text, that discouragement causes people to give up before getting the reward and ignoring the next one because the discouragement creates resentment when the lucky ones who didn't put in half the effort shows the reward. 1 positive and 2 negatives compared to 3 positives for the same effort is a big difference in player retention capabilities but the 2 negatives and 1 positive version having the ability to require an infinite amount of effort is almost a sure fire way of getting players to run away.
    Last edited by jet1971; May 14 2014 at 05:03 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000307b65/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    It sounds to me like a small content update with inflated grind to make it appear bigger. I've spent a total now 6 hours trying the new content.
    So now instead of evil raiders and groupers being the only victims of the RNG, everyone now gets to see it's glory (or severe lack there of).
    In what areas does the RNG effect loot/rewards now?:
    1. Group instances
    2. Epic Battles
    3. Solo quests
    4. Free hobbit presents

    Then you have things like Hytbold/Wildermore that is inflated grind due to the randomcity of the quests offered. Then you have things like the warband gold tokens in Wildermore. Seriously when does randomocity end and clear solutions begin?

    Expect more of this. And really the players disapproval of this system should be so loud that EVERY developer can hear it.

    Would you rather be able to get 10 leaves 4 times a week and have the pet barter able at say 250 leaves?
    (this still drags out the content making it seem inflated, but at least you know where you stand)

    Or would you rather bank on the dumb luck of the RNG? Where you may never win the item EVER. And then other players will rub it in your face that it took them 1 or 2 tries.

    Me, I like to see my efforts rewarded. I like to know up front what it's going to take. I will always support a barter system over the pulling of a slot machine handle hoping this time is the big win, only to be disappointed more and more with each spin of the wheel. pull of the handle or draw of the cards.

    This is called discouragement. It builds with each loss. And when you finally get the item your after in this system it's only a small relief. Because the next item you want will rewarded the exact same way. Causing even more discouragement. Until you have lost that player.

    If you let one developer get away with something like this what's to say that it isn't ok for others to follow suit.

    While this mentality works in a casino where people can win actual money. It doesn't here because all you win are pixels. Pixels that are mostly obsolete with in weeks or months. While a permanent pet/lawn ornament is much different from the usual loot as it is permanent, players should not be treated this way in any video game when it comes to working towards a goal.
    There's nothing wrong with RNG loot. Don't think so? Go visit a casino and look at the games. What games predominate the floor you ask? The pure RNG ones do. It works even better in a way in a computer game because you can actually keep track of the time sytematically and go do something else.

    Speaking of working on a goal, what goal are you working on? For me, the loot and its delivery *do not matter to me at all*; the world and its lore with my enjoyment in it is the goal.

    Just keep in mind that if things are going to be rare, that time or price or both will be high. Some folk would rather have the 'I got lucky' than the other one if there is going to be exclusivity. Yet people complain about prices, too. Unlike the casino operators, the computer game developers can't win :P.

    Still, having a defined time to complete path as a complement to the pRNG is fine with me.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    There's nothing wrong with RNG loot. Don't think so? Go visit a casino and look at the games. What games predominate the floor you ask? The pure RNG ones do. It works even better in a way in a computer game because you can actually keep track of the time sytematically and go do something else.

    Speaking of working on a goal, what goal are you working on? For me, the loot and its delivery *do not matter to me at all*; the world and its lore with my enjoyment in it is the goal.

    Just keep in mind that if things are going to be rare, that time or price or both will be high. Some folk would rather have the 'I got lucky' than the other one if there is going to be exclusivity. Yet people complain about prices, too. Unlike the casino operators, the computer game developers can't win :P.

    Still, having a defined time to complete path as a complement to the pRNG is fine with me.
    Visit a casino? I have no urge to do so. If I did I would buy a game called Vegas Slots. And then you want me to do something other than play the game. I do, it is called life.

    What goal am I working on. Currently with the loot system the way it is for EVERYTHING at level 95, I am working on leveling a new toon enjoying the older content on a new server. I wanted to try a new server because my entire kin was decimated by the lack of new content, poor class revamps and a loot system that treated them like a gambling addict in a casino. For you character building isn't important, but the story. For me the game used to be about building my character so I could help my kin overcome difficult content. No matter if it's a 6 man, farming warbands or banding together on the landscape. Basically whatever activity my kin was working on. If I went into these events with quest yellows and crafted purples 5 levels below the content am I really helping them?

    IF the loot system doesn't effect you at all why even participate in this thread?

    Yes things are rare like gold items. I never expect these to rain from the sky, but basic cyan items should not be this rare. I should get something for my efforts. When I grind out a solo quest area for months I should be able to barter for the best rewards, instead of praying to the RNG gods that I can finally get the item.
    The thing we are talking about is a cosmetic pet won through solo questing through the story. You may get it on the first try, or never. Nothing guaranteed.

    And as you have stated the RNG works well for you because you either don't care or aren't effected by it. That is no reason to squash others concerns with it.
    No one is saying that the way you play is wrong. Quite frankly the story is the only thing left that isn't frustrating.

    Some of us signed up for an MMO, not vegas slots.

  20. #120
    A great example of a frustrating experiences with the RNG:

    1.) I ran BG nearly every single day (sometimes twice or three times a day) T2 Challenge mode for months for the sole purpose of getting the Unwelcome doormat. Never once did it drop .. ever. It became a running joke with people and some even questioned if it was even still in the game as no one got the drop ever.

    Then one day a random person came in and joined the run who had not run it in over 3 years joined and pretty much went afk every 2 minutes. He already had 3 mats and had just joined because he was bored. Needless to say.. he won it.
    I understand it's rare, I do, I get it. Honestly I get it.
    But when a person logs over 100 BG runs, which is not a short run, without ever even seeing anyone get it, then someone waltzes in and gets it on their first run in years and was afk half the time... you can imagine how absolutely disheartening it was. It made me rather bitter to be honest and that's not how you want your players to feel about your content or policies.

    2.) I was on the 'friendly' side of the RNG in BfE on my RK. I had 8 gold hats at one point before I stopped bringing my Rk into them so others might have a better chance. One person who ran them with us all the time was on the losing end. Never got one. I can only imagine the frustration she must have felt seeing me win one every single time and her getting nothing and I felt supremely guilty about it even though I shouldn't have as I had no control other then to start bringing in other chars to play it. The worst part for me was I threw them away because I didn't need 8 and that was so shameful to me as others wanted them.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    A great example of a frustrating experiences with the RNG:

    1.) I ran BG nearly every single day (sometimes twice or three times a day) T2 Challenge mode for months for the sole purpose of getting the Unwelcome doormat. Never once did it drop .. ever. It became a running joke with people and some even questioned if it was even still in the game as no one got the drop ever.

    Then one day a random person came in and joined the run who had not run it in over 3 years joined and pretty much went afk every 2 minutes. He already had 3 mats and had just joined because he was bored. Needless to say.. he won it.
    I understand it's rare, I do, I get it. Honestly I get it.
    But when a person logs over 100 BG runs, which is not a short run, without ever even seeing anyone get it, then someone waltzes in and gets it on their first run in years and was afk half the time... you can imagine how absolutely disheartening it was. It made me rather bitter to be honest and that's not how you want your players to feel about your content or policies.

    2.) I was on the 'friendly' side of the RNG in BfE on my RK. I had 8 gold hats at one point before I stopped bringing my Rk into them so others might have a better chance. One person who ran them with us all the time was on the losing end. Never got one. I can only imagine the frustration she must have felt seeing me win one every single time and her getting nothing and I felt supremely guilty about it even though I shouldn't have as I had no control other then to start bringing in other chars to play it. The worst part for me was I threw them away because I didn't need 8 and that was so shameful to me as others wanted them.
    Maybe there was something about RK's? My RK won the gold healing hat 6 times. This wasn't my main toon. Actually it was a toon I knocked the cobwebs off once or twice a week to heal BFE and FOS. My mains (2) both are tanks a warden and guardian. The warden won some hunter gold in OE. The guardian (the toon which had the most game time, twice the amount of my warden and 25 times the amount of my RK) never won a single gold. And as a tank I was in very high demand. The only time I healed on my RK is when a tank from our kin logged in and he was not a frequent logger on.

    It's become widespread in the game now. Not just limited to group rewards, which is why this thread was created.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
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    4,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    A great example of a frustrating experiences with the RNG:

    1.) I ran BG nearly every single day (sometimes twice or three times a day) T2 Challenge mode for months for the sole purpose of getting the Unwelcome doormat. Never once did it drop .. ever. It became a running joke with people and some even questioned if it was even still in the game as no one got the drop ever.

    Then one day a random person came in and joined the run who had not run it in over 3 years joined and pretty much went afk every 2 minutes. He already had 3 mats and had just joined because he was bored. Needless to say.. he won it.
    I understand it's rare, I do, I get it. Honestly I get it.
    But when a person logs over 100 BG runs, which is not a short run, without ever even seeing anyone get it, then someone waltzes in and gets it on their first run in years and was afk half the time... you can imagine how absolutely disheartening it was. It made me rather bitter to be honest and that's not how you want your players to feel about your content or policies.

    2.) I was on the 'friendly' side of the RNG in BfE on my RK. I had 8 gold hats at one point before I stopped bringing my Rk into them so others might have a better chance. One person who ran them with us all the time was on the losing end. Never got one. I can only imagine the frustration she must have felt seeing me win one every single time and her getting nothing and I felt supremely guilty about it even though I shouldn't have as I had no control other then to start bringing in other chars to play it. The worst part for me was I threw them away because I didn't need 8 and that was so shameful to me as others wanted them.
    This is a classic example for me as well. I've run BG more times at T2c than I care to admit and I've never in all the years seen an unwelcome mat drop for anyone. I've also suffered from the example of a guy logs in for over a year, comes along and wins the rarest loot item in the game, then disappears for another year while the rest of us fume in frustration.

    I used to run Ost with a champ friend of mine at 85, because he wanted gold boots. He ran it several hundred times, no boots for him, yet every time we took in a pug champ to fill out our group it seemed they won it - frequently their first time in. Then of course they drop group and we're looking again for somebody to fill our group. In that same time I won 2 gold dps minstrel chest pieces that I never wanted because they didn't work for me even in dps mode. I vendored them and felt horrible about it. I think I won 3 gold minstrel shields while my RK friend never ever won a gold anything at level 85, no matter how many T1-T2c runs we did in instance after instance and raid after raid.

    We need a better system other than some get it, some don't, no rhyme or reason.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Maybe there was something about RK's? My RK won the gold healing hat 6 times. This wasn't my main toon. Actually it was a toon I knocked the cobwebs off once or twice a week to heal BFE and FOS. My mains (2) both are tanks a warden and guardian. The warden won some hunter gold in OE. The guardian (the toon which had the most game time, twice the amount of my warden and 25 times the amount of my RK) never won a single gold. And as a tank I was in very high demand. The only time I healed on my RK is when a tank from our kin logged in and he was not a frequent logger on.

    It's become widespread in the game now. Not just limited to group rewards, which is why this thread was created.
    I've never seen another Rk get as many golds as I had in that time period, it was awful. I had other classes get other gold items but not even as close as my Rk. I got every single gold piece except fornost ears and not for lack of trying. That char is exceptionally lucky, my guard on the other hand never got anything at all. Jinxed like she walked under a ladder every day while smashing mirrors and kicking black cats.

    I was more trying to express the general feeling of what one deals with when having bad RNG and how it affects people. Since it is filtered down now to questing it affects anyone who does that content and in the end the result will be as shown above. Bitterness at watching others get what you can't even though you do the same amount of work. At what point does someone just stop doing it because it's to frustrating? That's definitely not what you want your player base, not just raiders anymore, to feel about landscape content.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

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  24. #124
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    515
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    We need a better system other than some get it, some don't, no rhyme or reason.
    All of my characters in this game have absolutely horrible luck with the RNG. I rarely win anything with /roll unless no one else wants it. RNG loot is an exercise in frustration and it has been a big factor in me ditching BBs and other raid-type content. Eventually there has to be a payoff for running content, and if you don't get that payoff, you'll look elsewhere to invest your time.

    I like two of the models that they use in Star Trek Online for top-end gear. With the first system, each time you ran a Special task Force mission, you had a chance to get a token reward for a specific piece of gear based on which instance and its level (Elite or Normal). However, you also got Omega marks and Borg Neural Processors each time you ran it, and you could eventually acquire enough of those to outright purchase the gear you wanted if you weren't lucky enough to have the tokens drop.

    The system they use now places the top-end gear in a reputation system. You do missions to gain the marks to advance in the appropriate rep, and when you reach the tier of rep necessary for the gear, you can purchase it for the applicable Rep marks, Rep Special items, and in-game currencies. There is no luck involved with it beyond hopefully running missions with capable people to maximize your marks earnings through optionals and how successfully you complete the mission. Yes, it can be grindy, but I found that worst rep grind there was not nearly as obnoxious as the Fangorn Leaf grind, or any of the instance farming in desperate hope that the RNG will smile on you for once.

  25. #125
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Decatur, AL
    Posts
    5,448
    I've never really had to deal much with the RNG but it sure seems like some kind of streakbreaker needs to be in place.
    If you give away gold bars, someone will complain they're too heavy.
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    .: Iryth, 56 WDN :.: Baye, 56 WDN :.: Samtal, 64 WDN :.:Dunnock, 56 WDN :.: Sedgewald, 68 LMR :.: Breyon, 41 CHN :.: Tieran, 40 HNT :.

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