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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I'm so tired of hearing this. Seriously, do people really think the players are predominantly better creepside? I have news for you, the vast majority of them are the same players as the freeps you're talking about. This "lrn2play" business is just insulting and I bet half the people saying it are terrible at their class and never come out without 5 healers and a zerg raid.
    I wouldn't agree that players are predominantly better creep or freepside - there are very talented players on both sides. However, I do think that the relatively easy time that was had by some freeps in early u12 meant that it was too easy to be a freep, and thus they find the Ettenmoors an unwelcoming place now. On the other hand, I also know many longer term players, including myself, who are struggling now in the Moors due to the mitigation changes which happened at the same time as the creep boosts, which I think was a mistake. (edit: that they happened together, rather than in two stages).
    - Taravan, R12 Captain - Tirian, Tanking Guardian - Tolvax, Champion - And others...
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    Leader of Lost Realm of Imladris - Evernight - Co-Founder of Beauty and the Beasts

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tirian-Hammerfist View Post
    This exactly. Good creeps were already able to take on decent freeps 1v1. The boosts needed to primarily be aimed at classes that weren't able to cope solo (low/mid rank defis and low/mid rank spiders, who had a severe shortage of dps). However removing freep mitigations to such a great extent should have been the second stage, after seeing how the creep boosts played out.
    This is what I felt as well. Do the boosts for creeps then relook at mitigations because they were far too easy to cap and add some ON LEVEL itemization to account for mits changes. Right now there doesn't seem to be much choice. Again, I haven't tested it but from what I'm seeing if you don't go for mits you are creep food, I could be wrong though. Don't make it so easy to cap again but don't force freeps to resort to using gear from level 75 in order to compete with the changes which is where I think a lot of the complaints are coming from. Itemization could have been a lot better.
    Amestoplease, Rk
    Ambusher, Warg

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I'm so tired of hearing this. Seriously, do people really think the players are predominantly better creepside? I have news for you, the vast majority of them are the same players as the freeps you're talking about. This "lrn2play" business is just insulting and I bet half the people saying it are terrible at their class and never come out without 5 healers and a zerg raid.
    Agreed, people need to realize if people didn't come out to play for BOTH sides there would not be an ettenmoors. However, creeps have had the disadvantage for a while but have also been the benefactors of advantage from time to time, though not nearly as much as freeps. I disagree with freeps quitting or flipping sides because they can't handle the changes or simply don't want to adjust their play style. The decent freeps will adapt. The rest will either leave or flip to creep. The smug "now you see how it feels" is lame IMO. I played my warg for 4 years since launch when you really needed double numbers and endured 2 minute chain mezzes with nothing to break it as pots didn't exist. I would never wish poor gameplay on others as we all come out to have a good time and play a game. That is just me though. People forget it is supposed to be fun for all involved. If it isn't, people leave which is never good for a game in the long run.
    Amestoplease, Rk
    Ambusher, Warg

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I'm so tired of hearing this. Seriously, do people really think the players are predominantly better creepside? I have news for you, the vast majority of them are the same players as the freeps you're talking about. This "lrn2play" business is just insulting and I bet half the people saying it are terrible at their class and never come out without 5 healers and a zerg raid.
    Dude, chill. I never said all Freeps don't know how to play their classes. I do not believe that. I was referring to my server specifically, were most of the vets have left or no longer play, and we are left with newer players. I said some, perhaps even many, do not know how to properly go about their class, but not all. I'm sure it's hard to, when most of the classes were buffed up beyond reason, and healing granted immortality. It is simply my opinion, and I am not trying to pass it off as fact.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    I disagree with freeps quitting or flipping sides because they can't handle the changes or simply don't want to adjust their play style. The decent freeps will adapt. The rest will either leave or flip to creep. The smug "now you see how it feels" is lame IMO. People forget it is supposed to be fun for all involved. If it isn't, people leave which is never good for a game in the long run.
    Best explanation about "Moors" action these last years.
    Yuzuriha GDN R10 (Retired @ 2012 ) - Farruquita BA R12 Leader of "Sauron Loves Spain" (Evernight - since the beginning)

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    This is my biggest problem with the change to how reflects work, its a change i believe, not a bug. The fact reflects now work on dots is fine, though i think a cd increase for spider's TC would be necessary, but that once the dot is up you are going to be hit with that reflected damage no matter what. No amount of distance or line of sight will prevent that damage to you. That seems pretty silly to me.
    you mean all that time I ran out of L.O.S. it wasn't helping with the lm, guard, warden, burgs, dots and bleeds? funny the further I ran the safer I thought I was, I mean after all its silly to have dots on you when your not L.O.S and you've been out of LOS a considerable amount of time watching your morale tick from 50% to effing dead.


    yah you're right its silly, been silly forever.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    you mean all that time I ran out of L.O.S. it wasn't helping with the lm, guard, warden, burgs, dots and bleeds? funny the further I ran the safer I thought I was, I mean after all its silly to have dots on you when your not L.O.S and you've been out of LOS a considerable amount of time watching your morale tick from 50% to effing dead.


    yah you're right its silly, been silly forever.
    It's a good thing being out of combat for 9s wipes all DoT's then, huh?
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    Agreed, people need to realize if people didn't come out to play for BOTH sides there would not be an ettenmoors. However, creeps have had the disadvantage for a while but have also been the benefactors of advantage from time to time, though not nearly as much as freeps. I disagree with freeps quitting or flipping sides because they can't handle the changes or simply don't want to adjust their play style. The decent freeps will adapt. The rest will either leave or flip to creep. The smug "now you see how it feels" is lame IMO. I played my warg for 4 years since launch when you really needed double numbers and endured 2 minute chain mezzes with nothing to break it as pots didn't exist. I would never wish poor gameplay on others as we all come out to have a good time and play a game. That is just me though. People forget it is supposed to be fun for all involved. If it isn't, people leave which is never good for a game in the long run.
    I've played both sides since the beginning. I have about 2M infamy spread across different toons (I don't group - it was all the hard way). I bet I have 4 times the infamy of the average noob that drops the "lrn2play" t urd on these forums. These people are morons. I'm allowed to have an opinion. That's all I'm saying.

    And for what it's worth, I've played LM, burg, mini, warden in the moors all while they were considered OP. I never have the best gear so this is a little jaded but I've never played a class as laughable as my rank 7 defiler with 14 audacity. It's easily the most faceroll class I've ever experienced.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I've never played a class as laughable as my rank 7 defiler with 14 audacity. It's easily the most faceroll class I've ever experienced.
    Today I owned a p2w reaver (Note he's a not very skilled and common freep fotm player) with my oldie lv75 Rnk 6 Burglar (was retired like most my freeps, just bought 3 MC passes for freep), scaled freep and wearing ToO gear, using mischief!! (That's true LOL)
    Yuzuriha GDN R10 (Retired @ 2012 ) - Farruquita BA R12 Leader of "Sauron Loves Spain" (Evernight - since the beginning)

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nimrinoth View Post
    This is my biggest problem with the change to how reflects work, its a change i believe, not a bug. The fact reflects now work on dots is fine, though i think a cd increase for spider's TC would be necessary, but that once the dot is up you are going to be hit with that reflected damage no matter what. No amount of distance or line of sight will prevent that damage to you. That seems pretty silly to me.
    fighting spiders is a nightmare and blood of fire non healing is near impossible, these are basically I win buttons now I should not lose to a red rank store bought spider, ive played my class since MoM and its my only class ive had some good fights but hell pop TC and im insta dead. this isn't just in PvP FYI, lol Ivars fight is a nightmare, this Reflect CHange effected the entire the game. you know where u are supposed to stop DPSn due to reflects well bleeds really mess that up. any sort of mob that has a reflect mechanic ya need to be extremely careful about (just a lil wood for the fire)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    What worthless spider reflects vs a burg 1v1?
    You'd be surprised, you know how ppl whined about wardens and the good ones would nerf themselves in 1v1s yeah well that's not really happening with creeps they fight with everything because they were able to prior U13 at least I dint care if they did.

    and people are using the whole turbine gave me my skills why should I not used ALOT more

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Early RoR was fantastic. Now, things are simply broken. I very much doubt my champ can kill even incompetent creeps, if they just use Impale/VT/Wargs in general. Balance? Not quite. But yeah, I will enjoy watching the ignorant creeps in OOC, crying about "l2p freeps" who suck so badly now things are balanced. Surely you are not one of them?
    yes RoR that was the best not when freeps were insane but toned down and it was near even

    Quote Originally Posted by Noldorlord777 View Post
    So wargs are OP as well now?

    On my r8 burg I have been able to fight wargs and bag a kill off a warg solo even when they were given defiler heals.

    It is not the creeps apparently whining in OOC about "l2p freeps" that bothers me personally; it is the FOTM freeps that magically appear creepside rolling new defilers.
    lol Wargs I've watched many burn a full audacity full mit freep through 1 stun or 2 seconds after yeah that doesn't scream anything at all BC-for 1.8k+ average freeps only have like 20k morale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asperity View Post
    No he's saying Champions suck even more now.
    I know of a handful extremely good champions that could hold themselves prior to U13... yeah not anymore

    Quote Originally Posted by Selebrimbor View Post
    In some cases Shum, I think this is applicable. Meaning that the Freeps in some cases don't really know how to play their class properly.

    Like our server, for example. I haven't been back long, but as far as I can tell, most of the vet Freeps have either switched to Creepside, transferred, or stopped playing the game altogether. I'm not saying that this is the root of the problem, but I think it is a major issue. A badly played warden is still dangerous simply because it's a warden, no skill to do with it really.
    I guess it depends on the trait line ive killed most of the ez moding shield wardens on our server Before U 13 with r5 rvr/r6 warg.

    a red warden is dangerous but has close to no survivability. Hey don't worry I was looking at our trait lines they actually nerfed our bleed crit chance and lowered bleed crit damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
    Today I owned a p2w reaver (Note he's a not very skilled and common freep fotm player) with my oldie lv75 Rnk 6 Burglar (was retired like most my freeps, just bought 3 MC passes for freep), scaled freep and wearing ToO gear, using mischief!! (That's true LOL)
    this makes absolutely no sense since a r5 reaver can full bleed/impale/dev shot a light/medium armor. so that creep really had to have no idea what he was doing and no audacity u could probably get 1 shot

    Anyways at this point im pretty convinced that if they went and revamped every creep class and gave them 3 trait lines to choose from the moors would be pretty well balanced and then creeps would also understand the average freep a lot better... Oh no 5 minis they are heal stacking (4 minis are in warspeech/redline) - and we have this bad
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ames View Post
    This is what I felt as well. Do the boosts for creeps then relook at mitigations because they were far too easy to cap and add some ON LEVEL itemization to account for mits changes. Right now there doesn't seem to be much choice. Again, I haven't tested it but from what I'm seeing if you don't go for mits you are creep food, I could be wrong though. Don't make it so easy to cap again but don't force freeps to resort to using gear from level 75 in order to compete with the changes which is where I think a lot of the complaints are coming from. Itemization could have been a lot better.
    missed this one. heres the thing about those items.

    A reaver hits u with sundering blow- u lose 8046 armor

    a defiler hits u with CotDS- u lose 8046 armor

    A warg puddle- u lose 4k mits

    with lvl 75 itemization mits may be up but those 3 skills=0% mits

    I don't know what turbine was thinking when they 2x every creep debuff

    none of this new gear has mit on it, and I refuse to stack will as a tank class. they lowered BPE cap so now its much easier to deal with those op bpe classes.they lowered some of the free traits like crit chance/crit defence(doesn't even work on warden)

    the buffed the creeps they nerfed the freeps for pve but it hit even worse in pvp- bad call and basically a double nerf...

    sadly most of the freeps whne they cant win a 1v1 now but at the same time they have low mits and 4k might BECAUSE THEY DO ALOT OF DAMAGE ./facepalm
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  12. #37
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    leave creeps alone, up all basic mitigations by a 5% total (basic) not cap!... my mitigations are already 55% oc/fw 42.9% tactical as a guard... I did have to go under the 10k crit mark to reach the 55% cap but I can kill anything in my path with relative ease, but my wifes RK is having serious issues reaching a physical mitigation cap alone, my hunter was a pain in the butt to get to 50% and in yellow the 55% is near impossible, I have ran across some strong light classes, some strong medium classes, and super tough heavys on the server I creep on... but my freeps have no issue killing but theres allot of freeps who are to easy mode to get their mitigation virtues capped... and the pvp freep population is suffering for it please give all freeps a 5% across the board mitigation increase (not cap increase that is not needed)

  13. #38
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    You know what? I agree. Creeps are right on par right now and it's just a lack of skill from carebear freeps that's the problem. So as of right now, I'm going to play creep and be on side with you super-talented creeps. I can't believe I did see this all along.

  14. #39
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    I think its pretty balanced out now. Freeps will have to group up & work together to get the job done. I have no issues with the Moors revamp.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000c031c/01006/signature.png]Ridka[/charsig]

  15. #40
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    I hope that it makes freeps group up like the way creeps have always done...

    Freeps on my Server are all to busy soloing, but I am happy to give them a prelude to hope and steal half their points.

    It is a major downfall in helping freeps to be coordinated and they will be surprised by the number of fellowship bonuses that make all the difference in a fight.

    All the freeps know they have fellowship bonuses, hope scroll just to start, the class and race traits and skills: yet for some reason no hunter wants to share out combat run buff, or captain buffs...

    If I'm in a raid most the time I wont bother healing people out of it if they are just leaching from the raid unless we are 24 man full.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000da749/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  16. #41
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    The only real means of stacking mitigation in the moors at the moment is;

    1) Going back to Sarchol (the level 75 mitigation cape from isengard pits)

    2) Using the two-set bonus from the PvP rings

    3) Full mitigation virtues

    4) Mitigation crafted relics

    And,

    5) Tanking gear


    For the current moors meta 1, 4 and 5 are dumb. People should obviously not be completely shafted into 3, and the rings are so poor in everything but mitigation on 2 that the mitigation is the only reason anyone would wear them. You could argue that to be a decent trade-off, but I personally digress when it's the best trade-off that's currently available.

    Going from U12 to U13, close to 2/3 of my character build is now somewhat tank orientated for a Moors red-line build and I'm still dying up to 25% faster in the same situations as I would have experienced from the previous update.

    Not complaining about the deaths at all and changes to mitigations had to happen. But there's almost no viable 95 mit itemisation to look for in a moors build, and the practical effects of what's available are all but savvy at best.

  17. #42

    PvP not so much...

    Been playing since day one, original lifer/founder, have not PvPed a great deal over that time (R9 Champ) since I have long since considered LOTRO PVP sub par to every other game on the planet and willing to accept that because it was never their main bread and butter like a DAOC who put more emphasis on PvP over PVE. It is a goes back to fighting bridges and elf camps at TA in the early days to fighting at GV Lugs today they have generally moved the same fight to a different location.

    That's all history and is what t is. U13 IMHO has turned the Moors into a irrelevant waste of time but not U13 alone. I have been working with my champ who has 20+ in all virtues has 19 Acuity in all three sets and I continue to try various combinations to see if I can find something that is even semi effect. I also run plugins that track my stats since U13 Renown averages have dropped from 10k a night to 3K a night and are still falling.

    GV camp to me is as much of a waste of time as a Grams camp

    Store bought creeps, R4 creeps not concerned about going up against and R9 freeps and shame on my freep brothers who are unwilling to group up before going out. Creeps are in general better at grouping and mapping in killing small groups and moving out. They also get the word out and swarm in if you don't believe that go into Groth and hang around solo for a few minutes.

    Other observations for those that have not been paying attention at least on the server I call home. We have not seen a half blue map since U13 I could almost set my watch by the state of the map before. perhaps it will take time for the dust to settle and adjustments to be made on both sides. Maybe but I think not when I 2v1 a pair of R3 defilers to night and had to retreat from the fight because it was going no where and I burned through cool downs and pots with out doing any notable damage.

    So for me I will take a break from the moors and we will watch the continued rank gain by creeps continuing to collect infamy by freeps who continue to hand it out like candy over Halloween. I have also observed a number of my veteran brothers and regulars have not shown up in the past couple of weeks. So no I don't and wont play creep side I have plenty of alts I need to catch up on content and hell summer is coming and I have better things to do than sit in this chair.

    I also strongly agree with Ames' point it has to be fun on both sides if it is not people will not show up.

    Regards
    Last edited by drunes; Apr 24 2014 at 01:17 AM.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by drunes View Post
    Been playing since day one, original lifer/founder, have not PvPed a great deal over that time (R9 Champ) since I have long since considered LOTRO PVP sub par to every other game on the planet and willing to accept that because it was never their main bread and butter like a DAOC who put more emphasis on PvP over PVE.
    Are we allowed to abuse DOAC yet?

    In case anybody forgot what it looks like:



    'You performed Doom Hammer perfectly!'

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shumzuda View Post
    Are we allowed to abuse DOAC yet?

    In case anybody forgot what it looks like:



    'You performed Doom Hammer perfectly!'
    And it was created, it was nerfed. as was so many other freep/creep skills so guess what they will be nerfed again and then you can go quietly QQ
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  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by doug01 View Post
    A large majority of the remaining 20% don't realize that they are part of that 80% and a large majority of the 80% think they are part of the 20%.

    FYI: 72.3% of all internet statistics are made up.
    Very nice!


    Attended by Coldaen

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
    It's 2 days since U13 got launched, and tbh, never, never seen such amount of whinners becoming sad because "mediocre" players cannot roflsteam monster players any longer (There's no reason for that, we all know, creepside will got nerfed soon), instead of flaming developers, look around yourselves, and think deep what kind of action freeps offered from 3-4 years to now? Personally, at most servers I've visited, same as hilarious Zergs, Campfests, etc..... I quittet from freepside nearly ending 2012, and I'm sure it's the best thing I've done ever, because the majority of freep players are and will be ezmoders, read your carácter tips again, take your freep class, and fight, PvP was made for Fight on Ground, not on Forums. For those complaining about unkillable creeps, I bought a pass to Moors, and played my Guardian which was untouched for so long time it took me a while to learn how skills were working, but, surprise, I stepped the grond and started to kill Creeps, with a Scaled Guardian wearing R13 audacity, something's wrong here, and I'm pretty sure, playing FOTM clases can be one of the reasons. Enjoy!

    Congrats. The best post in a while. Keep up the good work setting ppl Off. You will get pretty empty server at sumner. You have then time to reflect, how what and how you do, impact your operating environment. Arrogance.

    I suggest to untrait Ignore the pain, undlot the skill from toolbar. Go and fight then. And say to yourself, hmm this whats champ life is, nomore 4 debuffs gone in 10 sec cd. Use pot and once 60 sec one debuff remover. And dont touch turn the tables. I hope this experience helps you to get down from high horse.

    If this game is to have future, this, here, now should be inviting, helpful and respectful forum. NOOB L2P is not that. Does not help.

    You get it, when you see empty servers. Ofc then there is option to blame noob whiners. You choose.

 

 
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