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Thread: Creepside BPE

  1. #1

    Creepside BPE

    Not a QQ thread about OP creep BPE values!!!!

    Just looking over my creep classes and I'm left scratching my head about some of the final values that have been given to classes relative to eachother. This was supposed to be the update that finally brought creep passive stats to appropriate levels.

    Numbers are in total BPE (Block + Parry, + Evade)
    Reaver: 38.7% (with front line fodder, which is worth maybe 2%)
    Weaver: 30.4% (probably shouldn't be super high, given the nature of Catch Prey's raw % bonuses)
    Warleader 28.3% untraited, 34.8% with shield mastery and avoidance boost
    Warg: 42.0% without any bpe traits
    BA: 25.1% untraited, 34.2% with uncanny reactions and avoidance boost
    Defiler 24.8% without front-line fodder.

    Many of these numbers seem off when you consider their respective roles in the game. Reavers seem a bit off, but Wargs and Warleaders just seem completely off, and in opposite ways.

    This isn't passing judgement on their absolute values, just in the values relative to eachother, and their roles in the game.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    5,768
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Not a QQ thread about OP creep BPE values!!!!

    Just looking over my creep classes and I'm left scratching my head about some of the final values that have been given to classes relative to eachother. This was supposed to be the update that finally brought creep passive stats to appropriate levels.

    Numbers are in total BPE (Block + Parry, + Evade)
    Reaver: 38.7% (with front line fodder, which is worth maybe 2%)
    Weaver: 30.4% (probably shouldn't be super high, given the nature of Catch Prey's raw % bonuses)
    Warleader 28.3% untraited, 34.8% with shield mastery and avoidance boost
    Warg: 42.0% without any bpe traits
    BA: 25.1% untraited, 34.2% with uncanny reactions and avoidance boost
    Defiler 24.8% without front-line fodder.

    Many of these numbers seem off when you consider their respective roles in the game. Reavers seem a bit off, but Wargs and Warleaders just seem completely off, and in opposite ways.

    This isn't passing judgement on their absolute values, just in the values relative to eachother, and their roles in the game.
    Scaling was done by boosting value of each rank of "avoidance" passive. These ranks were assigned to each class long ago and may well need a look over.

    Kind of pointless however, given finesse.
    [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img41/4553/73i4.jpg[/img]

    Even my Signature is trolling!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    Scaling was done by boosting value of each rank of "avoidance" passive. These ranks were assigned to each class long ago and may well need a look over.

    Kind of pointless however, given finesse.
    At the risk of bringing in comparisons to freepside; my warden has 25% finesse, which is among the higher ratings I see from freeps, where most are in the 17-20% range. Pre-U13 my warg had effectively 0% avoidances against a typical freep as my total avoidance was slightly under 20%, and only with frenzy active could I really expect to see more than a single avoidance over the course of a fight. Now with Frenzy active against a typical physical freep I have a roughly 25% chance to avoid a given attack. For those with experience fighting burglars or reavers, how much differently do fights play out with and without dust being active the whole fight? These changes for my warg at least are quite massive compared to freep finesse.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    At the risk of bringing in comparisons to freepside; my warden has 25% finesse, which is among the higher ratings I see from freeps, where most are in the 17-20% range. Pre-U13 my warg had effectively 0% avoidances against a typical freep as my total avoidance was slightly under 20%, and only with frenzy active could I really expect to see more than a single avoidance over the course of a fight. Now with Frenzy active against a typical physical freep I have a roughly 25% chance to avoid a given attack. For those with experience fighting burglars or reavers, how much differently do fights play out with and without dust being active the whole fight? These changes for my warg at least are quite massive compared to freep finesse.
    Are you saying your BPE is 25% higher than pre-update? I'm not actually sure what I had on my wargs before.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Are you saying your BPE is 25% higher than pre-update? I'm not actually sure what I had on my wargs before.
    no, i wasn't exactly clear in the previous post about when Frenzy was and wasn't active (+5% evade). My warg has gained about 20% bpe in the update.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Not a QQ thread about OP creep BPE values!!!!

    Just looking over my creep classes and I'm left scratching my head about some of the final values that have been given to classes relative to eachother. This was supposed to be the update that finally brought creep passive stats to appropriate levels.

    Numbers are in total BPE (Block + Parry, + Evade)
    Reaver: 38.7% (with front line fodder, which is worth maybe 2%)
    Weaver: 30.4% (probably shouldn't be super high, given the nature of Catch Prey's raw % bonuses)
    Warleader 28.3% untraited, 34.8% with shield mastery and avoidance boost
    Warg: 42.0% without any bpe traits
    BA: 25.1% untraited, 34.2% with uncanny reactions and avoidance boost
    Defiler 24.8% without front-line fodder.
    .
    Ok so my mini has a BPE reduction rate of 24.2% from finesse without actively trying to stack it (yes I realize mini stuff can't be BPEd but just an academic exercise). How do these #s compare to others? Finesse on reaver is 20.8% for comparison.

    So let's say my mini stuff could be BPEd. Net BPE rate would be:

    Reaver: 14.5% (with front line fodder, which is worth maybe 2%)
    Weaver: 6.2% (probably shouldn't be super high, given the nature of Catch Prey's raw % bonuses)
    Warleader 4.1% untraited, 10.6% with shield mastery and avoidance boost
    Warg: 17.8% without any bpe traits
    BA: .9% untraited, 10% with uncanny reactions and avoidance boost
    Defiler .6% without front-line fodder.

    Reaver is perhaps high, warg seems similar to what I've faced against burgs on my reaver, nothing else seems too out of line.

    Finesse on my reaver is 20.8% for comparison. What is your BPE on your warden? I got BPEd by wardens fairly often before update so be interested to know what happens now, though I'm not going to be on creep much to find out.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Ok so my mini has a BPE reduction rate of 24.2% from finesse without actively trying to stack it (yes I realize mini stuff can't be BPEd but just an academic exercise). How do these #s compare to others? Finesse on reaver is 20.8% for comparison.

    So let's say my mini stuff could be BPEd. Net BPE rate would be:

    Reaver: 14.5% (with front line fodder, which is worth maybe 2%)
    Weaver: 6.2% (probably shouldn't be super high, given the nature of Catch Prey's raw % bonuses)
    Warleader 4.1% untraited, 10.6% with shield mastery and avoidance boost
    Warg: 17.8% without any bpe traits
    BA: .9% untraited, 10% with uncanny reactions and avoidance boost
    Defiler .6% without front-line fodder.

    Reaver is perhaps high, warg seems similar to what I've faced against burgs on my reaver, nothing else seems too out of line.

    Finesse on my reaver is 20.8% for comparison. What is your BPE on your warden? I got BPEd by wardens fairly often before update so be interested to know what happens now, though I'm not going to be on creep much to find out.
    Add in Catch prey on the weaver figure, first of all.

    My warden currently has 39.6% bpe, which is down from roughly 50% pre-U13. Burgs should be tipping the scales around 40% as well now, and unless building specifically for it every other physical freep class will be at or below this figure as well. Freeps took a roughly 25% hit in bpe values thanks to agility/might only contributing 3 to block/evade instead of 4, and afaik every class is now capped at 20% rather than 25% (my warden definitely is).

    Going off semi-random made up numbers here, tactical freep classes have essentially 0 bpe, against any creeps, and a red guard, red or blue cappy, and any flavor of champ should have essentially no bpe value against a ranked (r10+) creep. I don't want to sound like i'm complaining on this, particularly considering the resistance rates tactical classes achieve. I still for the life of me don't understand why finesse was implemented in this way, and not made into a stat that reduces an opponents bpe rating by a given percentage (finesse would of course need to be adjusted to give much higher percentages).

    The original post was intended to draw comparisons of the relative creep bpe values, not draw comparisons to freep ones, but I'm easily sidetracked.

 

 

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