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Thread: Too squishy

  1. #51
    With this update, things are really alot different then they used to be. Changes may affect classes alot in midle levels. It look more like ToO times, that was lvl75 cap. Back then Angmar map wasnt fun and games at all, on level.

    There should be markers in quest log showing is it single player, small fellw 3man, fellow 6man, or raid 12 man quest.

    Some fellow quest areas on map are in Lonelands, Red Swamp, North downs south east corner? Rewamp? North western part of Angmar, Northern Trollshaws? Rewamp?, Misty mountains South east corner, anything with giants. No such things in Eregion, only few signatures. Lothlorien, Mirkwood, that i know of, some fellow quests. Same in Dunland.
    Limlight is fellow quests only. After that its pretty much all single player areas. Ofc warbands are not ment to be soloed, but many did so. That is until now. Still, some of em hit pretty hard and can oneshoot any player, any class. Especially so in HD. Not all of em, some are pretty weak.

    About mitigations, in raids, tact mitigation is must habe again, many bosses deal unavoidable attacs, tactical aoe. On a map, mostly all damage is physical. Retraiting on a spot is good idea, to try out how it works. Max resist and physical mit for map, tactical for instsas it used to be.
    12 k shards where spent bsak in days, to get 384 crit defence. Some of that too.

    And keep in mind, evrything changed. Old assumptions dont work. And dont belive me or anybody here. Check and test. To give an idea how much is changed, try out Blind one in Skymful. Pretty interesting.
    Last edited by Humbabumba; Apr 15 2014 at 07:54 AM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferns View Post
    My build includes will 1,649, fate 501, and lots of mitigation both tactical 5,481 and physical 3,992. My resistance is 11,828. My tactical mastery is 18,583 and physical is 13,971. This is without scrolls or food or other buffs which I DO use. For my level I think these stats are pretty good. This is a level 81 minstrel.

    I played pre HD; this is NOT that. I have been playing LOTRO, as I said, for years, and it's not my first second or third MMO.

    Please do not mock people giving honest feedback; it just drives them away from giving feedback and investing in the game. We are all here because we enjoy the game... right?

    I was certainly not mocking.
    Firstly, those suggestions I made are good ones for people who don't know how to fix their light clases after the changes. They were not directed at you (they are in the edit for that reason) but at people having trouble with being squishy in general and especially to the persons having difficulty with new landscape mobs at level 95. Prior to these changes those new Isengard orcs at 95 hit for an average of 300 damage and one self bolster courage healed for 1.5 -2K plus. Now our morale bar actually moves when they hit us. That is a good thing but it does mean we do have to self heal a bit while dpsing. And scrolls help mitigate their damage so using them will help as well... as you know. But other people may not: hence their having trouble.

    Secondly, it feels to me more like LOTRO pre HD. You can't solo fellowship content any more... That is a good thing in my opinion. I am sorry you liked it when you could, but many others found it very unsatisfying. I don't think content should be balanced around you or me or anyone, soloing elites designed for fellowships only 6 levels below us. Six months ago at 85 it was not possible to do that with these Limlight elites for many players. 12 months ago it was hard for many fellowships.

    Thirdly, I genuinely don't think it is that bad. Even my level 40 badly played RK can still manage 2-3 white or yellow landscape mobs. Just not 2-3 red coloured landscape mobs anymore. That is how it should be in my opinion.

    I repeatedly have said I don't like the approach to the changes because the landscape soloers who have got used to HD's ease and speed of play, won't like it. And it's not a big enough change to make instances on tier 2 hard enough. We had just duoed Ost Erendil in tier 2 cm mode. This is a six man. I maintain instances are still too easy for capped players.

    TL: DR If people are having difficulty with on level landscape quests then that is a different matter. My suggestions may help. If they don't, and most people can't do on level solo content at all, then no doubt things will be adjusted again. As they should be.
    Last edited by Calta; Apr 15 2014 at 08:01 AM.
    [COLOR="#DDA0DD"][CENTER][B]Peralda[/B] - Minstrel - 100 - The Numenorean Guard - Landroval~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[B]Yvandriel[/B] - Minstrel - 100 - Extraordinary Adventurers' League - Laurelin[/CENTER][/COLOR][COLOR="#EE82EE"][CENTER]And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”[/CENTER][/COLOR]

  3. #53
    For me, ppl actually defited on map while not afk, is the best news for months. There is no achivement without effort.

    Still, again, lets hold our horses steady. We really dont know how it affects midlevels, classes.

    I am pretty confident future adjustments are on the way. Especially i dont think creep raids on stairs of freep base camp, is kind of healthy situation, or gives anybody good gaming experience.

    One thing for shure to bring ppl back to game is news, that ppl are getting defeated on map. That raises eyebrows.

  4. #54
    The slog of levelling after u13 and the general boring powersliding of those warsteed barges basically left me little choice but to cancel and watch from the sidelines from now on.
    Then hearing that level 95s still have little to no trouble doing what they did beforehand is just laughable, shows how little the current devs of the game really understands their game.
    Can anyone say "milking phase"?

  5. #55
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    I won't argue that my level 90 RK isn't the best equipped/traited but was totally destroyed by the level 88 elite orc leader at the camp outside of Aldburg and taking on the 2 normal orcs at the same camp. Never was able to take on the leader.

    I think another extended break is in order. I think the pendulum has swung a bit too much for some levels / classes.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000005c0/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    Some geniuses were screaming about "easy modes", "facerolls" and alike. Like "me is big player me solo anything barehanded and 'tis a faceroll, plz make hard mode".

    What screamers wanted - they have got. A small part of community that screamed loud got hard mode. Got every class squishy. Same small part would be active now telling how good things are when they are not.

    I think Turbine should understand difference between making all classes squishy - and making so much praised "challenge".

    Making all classes squishy --> lots of unhappy players -->probably less profit.
    Making optinal instances (not required in epic line) harder -->more interest for players -->probably more raiders returning -->possibly more profit/more game population.

    I guess no one would ever object if some optional instance/raid is made harder so that player thinks twice before starting. That rewards for those who survive would be good too. And that monsters in a hard instance could even adapt to battle style. But what can be objected - is making characaters stripped off vital statuses and making them squishy.

    Turbine, please harden instances if screamers want so...but please, return player statuses to how they used to be before Update 13.


    For lvl.50 player? Only one advice: get your main toon to grind thousands of task items. Pass them to level 50 toon. Turn in task items. Do lots of crafting, no matter what and why (main toon should support with materials). And when quests are absolutely safe - do them. That's the only logic outcome in these days.


    In your blog.. you state this:
    And so the day has ended. I had earned 0 Turbine points, but was very happy with the new Update. Life is excellent in Lotro once again.

    So I guess it's not that bad after all.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  7. #57
    I noticed that a lot of posts are quick to compare endgame 95's to level 50+. I can easily explain why the 95's found the game too easy, somewhat based on my own play style. It is a completely different experience when you have your build down to a science and the same goes for your raid groups. I have an 85 champ and I was able too solo t2-t3 skirmishes with only minor issues(Herbalist aggro). The point being it is a difference in player experience and level of detail put into a character.

    Now for an interesting laugh, I now have 13k worth of tact mastery that seems to serve no purpose and I get it from might. Even with virtues, you can not make up for the loss of 4k worth of physical mitigation, down from 11k in total. The patch update in a realistic sense hurts a lot more people than balances. The 95's can't be counted, for one simple reason.

    Going to Skyrim for a brief moment. I built a god character though time and effort. Even with patches and updates. It still did not leave a noticeable effect on it's capacity to kill in one shot. Same mechanics apply to the 95's. They have invested the time and effort to build character that are by design to steamroll the High level T3 instances. Even with the patch, you are still looking at a raid group of 95's with endgame gear and experience that almost nullifies the purpose of the patch. But it deeply hurts those that don't have the gear, or prefer to solo.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    I have a theory, i dont think its the content i think its the players, turbine made the game extremely easy over the past 2 expansions and now we have players who basically hit a few buttons and the mob is dead, but now after U13 hit i feel these players could potentially be very poor players. Now this is not a dig in any way, but nowadays players expect the mob to be dead before it reaches them, more so with ranged classes, so they kinda ignore certain skills etc. I think this is the problem, and the fact they have maybe mediocre gear/jewels/weapons etc etc.


    To many players stand in one spot and assume the mob will die before they take a hit, they no longer move to avoid and such like, we need to expect a few smaller issues are a change like the mitigation change we just got, i player my cappy through the book last night and the first new area, its still to easy, but yeah the mobs did hit a tad bit harder, i did a few T3 raids and there so so, games going in a better direction, people just need to understand that and accept it.

    An easy game and all that :-(
    Things like interrupting, kiting, cc and debuffing are needed again but no one knows how to use them because they've rofllolstomped everything for 6 months.
    Taking the time to learn the classes and learning how to survive will certainly make some people unhappy. Sadly for those who like 1 or 2 shotting things will have a hard time adjusting to it.
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    A small part of community that screamed loud got hard mode.
    There is small part of community left still playing this game because majority already left because of faceroll, no challange, and constant denial of grouping as a 'have to' to do not only instances but also landscape quests.
    There are a lot of much better RPGs out, the only thing that made LotRO so special was its 'MMO' part (community, instances), that is gone now.

    I still have some (very small...) hope that once we will play roles we chose: tank will tank, healer will heal, dpser will dps, support will support. But thats just a fool's hope.

  10. #60
    This combat re-balance is a completete fiasco. I've been playing LotRO for years, and fighting solo mobs has NEVER been this difficult.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by R266 View Post
    Same mechanics apply to the 95's. They have invested the time and effort to build character that are by design to steamroll the High level T3 instances. Even with the patch, you are still looking at a raid group of 95's with endgame gear and experience that almost nullifies the purpose of the patch. But it deeply hurts those that don't have the gear, or prefer to solo.
    But you don't need top gear at 95 to be in "God mode."
    I levelled up quickly my Guardian from 65 to 95, by keeping my 65 LIs and 85 gear (Hytbold)
    Any other casual player has better gear than me.
    But I can still solo easily any instance or skraids, which is not normal.
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 10:02 AM.

  12. #62
    I have to agree that they overdid it in the other direction, I have been playing a tank warden as my main since they released with Moria. I have never, ever lost health so fast taking on landscape mobs. Playing in Wildermoor in fulll Hytbold gear, 2nd age weapon and I lose half my health to 2 regular mobs that I pulled and a signature that patrolled in before I can get off two gambits. I survived but I had to go full defensive/heal to recover, a dps toon would have been dead.

    And I out leveled the mobs by several levels at 88.

    If warden tank is taking that much damage that fast, they went too far.

    And I have been playing this toon a long time, all my traits are correct and maxed out, full tank build. I know what I am doing and how to play my class, my hobby since wardens released has been soloing elites and doing T2 skirms without a soldier.

  13. #63
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    I like the changes a lot.
    First time after U13 was like "holy s**t they (<- like in landscape mops) eat me alive!" .. but than I changed my play style a little and it is OK now. I don't faceroll everything but I can manage.
    I guess that light armor classes need a little buff in mid level, but all in all it is better now!

    I didn't try all classes though,
    Hunter (yellow) 32, Burg (yellow) 95, Mini (red) 95 and I will try the Champ 62 [EDIT] .. and the Champ (blue) still works.
    Edit: Wardens arre still broken, btw.
    Last edited by Lialix; Apr 15 2014 at 09:33 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2a223000000278ec9/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  14. #64
    I've never seen worse update. Being a champ without any bubbles, less damage, armour and none of your main stats giving you any mitigations ... this is just ridicilous. Or maybe i should fully gear with light armour which gives will and fate?! Doin instance, ppl expecting you to offtank is no more eligible. Sry champs, but if there is no new update for you, you can bravely delete your toons

  15. #65
    These changes are tough to swallow for someone like me, who is more in it for the story and the scenery. Now my pleasant escape to Middle-Earth has turned into a grim struggle for survival on lower-level characters.

    And on my 95 Guardian, I can still slaughter mobs just fine, it just takes twice as long. What kind of "challenge" is this? All it does is make quests like that "go kill 6 orcs in Isengard depths" longer and more boring.

  16. #66
    Someone screamed and got what? Who screamed? Check facts first.
    There is zero point to go to play the blame game.
    In this, Turbine does what it wants, when he wants, how it wants. Beta testers have posted and stated issues.

    Was a game faceroll? Yes.
    Did raiders want this? No. What they asked for? Raids. What they got? This.

    For better or for worse?
    I dont know. Have to test myself. But it was no effort, no achivement faceeoll.

    And dont think threr is so specific raidgroups. Hit 95, you where qualified. We 6 manned T3 raids in quest gear, with not so much of an effort. Pug runs t3 had lvl90+,ppl in em, whatever... dosent mater. Thats ridiccilous.

    Now, how can someone blame raiders for this?? Pls, do not post absurd alligations. It does not help noone.

    As of somewhat experienced player, i know this: you know who you friends are, when trouble comes. There seems to be issues. All i can do is to offer advice. And by far, when things go south, grouping up is fast fix.

    There is other way also. Backup. If things go really bad, all you can count on are you crafters. Need special gear? Make crafters. All guilds, all tiers. Now you can pretty much customtune any toon. Thing is, its about.. 6 months to make all guilds. Still, in the end it pays off. So you raid if you want to, or craft, or level.

    I dont have cook guild, as it seems abit useless so far.

    Blaming and labelling ... lets not go there. Thats not why we are playing the game. To have fun, is the idea.

    Runekeeper, drop healstone, drop firestone, 2 or 3 fireskills, kiting around healstone worked last time for me.

    As a rule, 85 weapons dont cut pass 88. Look at dps numbres. I remember 85 first ager maxed bow being outdpssed by 89 good 3rd ager. Equip, max dps, have a try. Any time going gets tough, check wepon level. Max 85 first ager bow was 175dps. 3rd ager was 210dps. No amount of extra legacy points make that up. You can probably get to95 with 85 weapons, but its a streach. Upgrade. Lvl 90 jewellry, crafted and skirm camp is better by a kilometer, then anything we had at 85
    Last edited by Humbabumba; Apr 15 2014 at 09:38 AM.

  17. #67
    Were things too easy before? Yes.
    Are they ridiculously the opposite now? Yes.

    I should not have to struggle to take down 2 mobs at the same time. 3 archers and Im dead.

    Questing should not be an exercise in frustration, and huge repairs.

    Champs are more squishy and do less damage at this point. This is NOT a good thing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000000eb50b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  18. #68
    I haven't tried my Runekeeper (Lvl 95) or my Mini (lvl 72) on Up-date 13 yet, saying that, at the lower levels I had to use my skirmish soldier to survive in a lot of the time. That started to change in Moria and I became more survivable. I know it can be very frustrating in those zones. I have noticed that even at the higher levels the class traits can a major impact on how well I will be survive. What works for me of the RK is being Trait-ed as Solitary Thunder when playing solo and on the Ministrel is being trait-ed as Warrior-Skald. I will get on both of the classes today and see is there has been major survivable issues for me

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    95 Champ squishy in PVE ?!!!
    In Blue, I can still solo a raid like Helegrod Giant, which is absurd !
    In 3-man instances... just a joke.
    As I've pointed out on the BR forums as well, LANDSCAPE mobs at lvl 95 have had their damage buffed by 120%. Instances were not affected by this, meaning normal landscape mobs hit has much as or more than instance bosses. And Helegrod Giant is the worst example because that is a lvl 50 scaled raid, and you know just as well that scaling is completely broken.
    Pulling 3 signatures on the landscape (especially if they spam armour debuffs) can really equal the same difficulty as holding 3 (nemesis) luitenants in a t3 skraid, or even be harder, with the only real difference that the landscape mobs die faster.

    I think, if instances get buffed accordingly (not all instances have scaled the same way, erebor instances are much harder than helegrod for example), and overall healing gets nerfed a bit (mostly the group BC for minis being nerfed by 90%), it could go a long way towards making the game more challenging. Still, until scaling gets fixed, the pendulum will just keep swinging.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norwrei View Post
    I noticed the same thing.. way too squishy and have even died a few times from landscape mobs in the new region. My charactors (LM, Minstrel, Warden) are fully geared, virtues, etc. This shouldn't be happening.
    At 95 your minstrel is dying to single landscape mobs, even signatures? You're right, that shouldn't be happening. Mine sounds about equal to yours in set-up and I rolled through the new Isen region without blinking on the signature uruk-hai. What's your health/will/tactical mastery at? Virtues? I'm not being sarcastic or learn-to-play, I want to see what the problem is. Equally geared characters shouldn't have such different results.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    I have a theory, i dont think its the content i think its the players, turbine made the game extremely easy over the past 2 expansions and now we have players who basically hit a few buttons and the mob is dead, but now after U13 hit i feel these players could potentially be very poor players. Now this is not a dig in any way, but nowadays players expect the mob to be dead before it reaches them, more so with ranged classes, so they kinda ignore certain skills etc. I think this is the problem, and the fact they have maybe mediocre gear/jewels/weapons etc etc.


    To many players stand in one spot and assume the mob will die before they take a hit, they no longer move to avoid and such like, we need to expect a few smaller issues are a change like the mitigation change we just got, i player my cappy through the book last night and the first new area, its still to easy, but yeah the mobs did hit a tad bit harder, i did a few T3 raids and there so so, games going in a better direction, people just need to understand that and accept it.

    An easy game and all that :-(
    See I agree with this.

    My minstrel is level 63 and has ###### gear/no virtues and 3rd age legendaries and after u13 still has things easy. People have had thongs so easy in lotro for so long they balk at the idea of thinking instead of charging into a group of mobs and anhialating them!

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikalar View Post
    I won't argue that my level 90 RK isn't the best equipped/traited but was totally destroyed by the level 88 elite orc leader at the camp outside of Aldburg and taking on the 2 normal orcs at the same camp. Never was able to take on the leader.

    I think another extended break is in order. I think the pendulum has swung a bit too much for some levels / classes.
    Were you mounted when you took them on? You don't have to take them on foot. Kiting works beautifully while mounted. I had an RK friend who had the same problem pre-HD because she tried to take them on foot and got destroyed. My minstrel never considered taking them on foot, because it was one of the few times I could see a benefit to mounted combat.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    At 95 your minstrel is dying to single landscape mobs, even signatures? You're right, that shouldn't be happening. Mine sounds about equal to yours in set-up and I rolled through the new Isen region without blinking on the signature uruk-hai. What's your health/will/tactical mastery at? Virtues? I'm not being sarcastic or learn-to-play, I want to see what the problem is. Equally geared characters shouldn't have such different results.
    Comparing all teals to all teals no longer means equal gear. How much mits gear do you have, do you have mits virtues grinded out (all rank 18 virtues, but none of them being for mits doesn't really help).
    In about the worst situation, a fully teal-geared light armour class ends up with about 6k common mits and 5,2k tactical mits. This means around 25% for both (can't tell exactly). There is quite a difference between having 12/11k mits and 6/5k, but this is the range we are talking about between fully teal-geared players.
    Crit defence is also really important, players with crit defence in their build are significantly less squishy than those that don't.

    I can totally see some players dying against the signatures below isengard, if you don't see it coming, you'll be totally surprised by the 3-4k devastates those guys can pull off (they stun as well), if you have no crit defence.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  24. #74
    Well, only my hunter can take monted enemy and win. Champ, guard, cappy dont think so, not eastly.

    So go mounted against mounted. Seems that mobs inbetween hubs are designed to be fighted on horse.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    As I've pointed out on the BR forums as well, LANDSCAPE mobs at lvl 95 have had their damage buffed by 120%. Instances were not affected by this, meaning normal landscape mobs hit has much as or more than instance bosses.
    But not for Champs.
    Instances bosses do very low damage on my Champ (even in Yellow (AoE) for some)
    I tested some 95 mobs in the new region, and apart being totally naked, impossible to be killed as Champ

 

 
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