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Thread: Too squishy

  1. #26
    Harder instas- yes.
    Godmode for everybody- no. I dont want that.

    Because of godmode, we have at95
    -loremasters who have never use anything ghen red, no cc skills ever, not needed,
    -runkeepers lost fate i chill of winter, as no need for it, burn it all,
    -cappys who dont really know what the shield of dunedain or last stand stands for
    -camps dunno where is .. bubble was it. Some bubble, never ever used it.. what is this, why?
    -guards using shields as sports utility acessor in wintersport events in misty mountains
    - minis who dont really know what combat res is and who to res...

    It was bad. It did damage.

    As of landscape, dunno, havent been there n medium, light for week or so.
    If there is too much hardship, too much isnt good.
    So give advice an share experience about hows and whats.

  2. #27
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    Too squishy,less damage, harder or lets say imposible to finish with platinum with out to be with duo on HD instances.I dont like those changes at all espasialy the difficulty of HD instances cause i am solo player.
    Who start wining and you made those changes the creeps?Insteed of nerf us you should give them more dps and i know what i am talking about cause i have a rank 11 reaver.Anyway for one more time something that you made it good at start you destroy it after...
    Arandour Champion Rank 12-Nerien Hunter Rank 11-Runendir RK Rank 7
    Borzol Reaver Rank 12-Mauhnakh BA Rank 9-Varcolac Stalker Rank 9
    Sumnor Spider Rank 8-Orcapo Defiler Rank 8.

  3. #28
    Maybe we should distinguish, were players should be challenged.

    From my personal point of view, while leveling, landscape mobs (2 or 3 at the same time) should still be soloable, whether or not you are specialized in blue, red or yellow and wear quest gear items. I have to admit, I did have some problems with my red sepcialized level 85 guard in a quest instance in entwade (virtues are far beyond good, but I always level them at end level of my toon since playing siege of mirkwood, gear from quests and level 75 second age weapon). Leveling should be fun, but not as hard and challenging as in instances or skirmishes.

    That leads to the point, where players should expect challenge, and look at their virtues, gear and of course, their legendary weapons - in group instances, thats what they are designed for. At the moment it looks like it's the other way around?!

    @castorix
    Don't get me wrong, but maybe it's possible to record your solo t3 raid run. Didn't tried it with my champ yet, but would be interested in how you manage, to survive with purple gear and level 65 legendary weapons.

  4. #29
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    Support i think a nerf is needed IMO.
    ~ WhiteTalpa ~

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Shubidu View Post
    @castorix
    Don't get me wrong, but maybe it's possible to record your solo t3 raid run. Didn't tried it with my champ yet, but would be interested in how you manage, to survive with purple gear and level 65 legendary weapons.
    I posted on Youtube the tests I did with my Champ in U13P4/P5 (Thangulhad T2 - 1st assault, Helegrod Giant - first group of mobs, Library)
    (purple gear & 65 LIs are on my Guardian, I don't think I can do T3 skraids bosses with that, but I do T1 skraids easily)
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 05:10 AM.

  6. #31
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    The thing is, characters are only slightly squishier than they were. Now they just require defensive virtue traits to be slotted if they want to go back to facerolling. So I don't really understand this complaint - other than someone not having virtue traits and not wanting to grind/buy them.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    No, my Guardian has no stat tomes, 85 gear, purple items and 65 LIs !
    Largely sufficient to solo everything with an incredible ease...
    65 LIs? What are you doing to your opponents? Tickle them to death?
    Somehow I can't believe that... even my champ with no higher level character in the background has better gear, and I have yet to see one of the raid instances; just living off quest rewards, drops and the occasional visit to the legendary trader.

    Of course I haven't played a guardian yet - maybe that's the ultimate "I kill everyone while just staring at them and you can't even touch me" class.
    ~ Huntress reincarnated ~

  8. #33
    Okey. We are where.. nowhere.

    If there is issue with midlevels being too squishy:
    Lets post like this:
    - what level toon,
    - how much trait points, skill tree,
    - what virtues are slotted, what level, giving how much resist, block, parry, evade, crit mastery and physical and tactical mitigations
    - gear, foods buffs used,
    - what area there is problems, survivability, can or cant do quest,
    - enemy composition, mobs, elites, rare elites.

    As of remider, rare elites or signatures are suppouse to be taken on only in raid or fellow. They are expected to oneshoot all but hevys. And only good hevy walks away.

    By providing this info, there will be base for adjustments if needed. Something to work with.

    Lets keep lvl95 raid/soloing stuff out, as its not of an issue, stated by original poster.
    So focus on midlevels, light/medium. If there is isue, my guess is its there.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbabumba View Post
    Okey. We are where.. nowhere.

    If there is issue with midlevels being too squishy:
    Lets post like this:
    - what level toon,
    - how much trait points, skill tree,
    - what virtues are slotted, what level, giving how much resist, block, parry, evade, crit mastery and physical and tactical mitigations
    - gear, foods buffs used,
    - what area there is problems, survivability, can or cant do quest,
    - enemy composition, mobs, elites, rare elites.

    As of remider, rare elites or signatures are suppouse to be taken on only in raid or fellow. They are expected to oneshoot all but hevys. And only good hevy walks away.

    By providing this info, there will be base for adjustments if needed. Something to work with.

    Lets keep lvl95 raid/soloing stuff out, as its not of an issue, stated by original poster.
    So focus on midlevels, light/medium. If there is isue, my guess is its there.
    While I agree with most of your post, signatures or elites (rare or common) are not supposed to be taken on only in raid or fellow. Signatures are supposed to be the equivalent to a player character as a newbie, and elites are supposed to be the equivalent to a player character with a bit of experience. Later on elites and signatures become faceroll enemies too, and depending on the class and enemy type, so do elite-masters, nemesi and arch-nemesi.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowellan View Post
    65 LIs? What are you doing to your opponents? Tickle them to death?
    Somehow I can't believe that... even my champ with no higher level character in the background has better gear, and I have yet to see one of the raid instances; just living off quest rewards, drops and the occasional visit to the legendary trader.
    Of course I haven't played a guardian yet - maybe that's the ultimate "I kill everyone while just staring at them and you can't even touch me" class.
    Yes, my DPS is very low, in particular in Blue, but self-heals are insane (heal on blocks for example, similar to "Exemplar" skill of Captains ("God Mode" with a lot of mobs))
    You pull dozens of mobs, set auto-attack on, and you can go afk, mobs will heal you (if you're not stunned)...
    (and I have kept the 85 Hytbold gear which gives... +130K morale. I don't understand how such things can be implemented..)
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 06:41 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    Most people weren't asking for Turbine to make landscape mobs hard because I don't think that's where "challenge" should be based. People were asking for difficulty to be put into instanced content/scaled raids that already exist and to make more of them. Make them what they should be. Instead we got U13.
    Exactly. In fact what most people wanted was speific class fixes first. Nerf mini's aoe BC, get rid of godmode healing/tanking cappies, fix specific things about all the classes. Some of us wanted harder mobs in instances. Most of us wanted harder mobs in tier 2. None of this affected soloers doing landscape quests..

    99% of beta testers said do this first then adjust landscape slowly and gently if soloplayers think it is required.

    What we got- a sweeping nerf to mitigations. My minstrel's dropped from 40% to 13% in one beta build. After much screaming and howling and endless measuring and suggestions we got some mits back from virtues. Then the will/fate points arrived unannounced.

    So, yeah I said everything was faceroll. It was. But I also said in beta testing for update 13, over and over, that the mit change hit mid level light classes hardest, especially in Moria. And that across the board nerf would result in howls from soloers. And freeps in the moors.

    So yeah- we screamed Nakties. Our screaming got your squishy playable at all at 50. You should have tried it with 5%-7% mits at level 50 and no option to get them up through virtues, like it was in the first few betas for update 13. Then you'd be really upset. I guess you ae just going to have to grind mitigation virtues, like the rest of us. Or buy them.

    edit: Needing to play at your best and or get lucky in a pull with an elite and multiple mobs seems about right to me. To take on elites should be hard. The first time you solo one with adds should feel a bit epic. All those mezz skills will be needed. As will crafted gear and food and scrolls. And knowing a bit about the right stats! Hooray!

    edit: can still duo tier2CM pens and OE tier2cm-just have to heal the warden now instead of straight dpsing. thanks for that Devs
    Last edited by Calta; Apr 15 2014 at 05:36 AM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by elfincat View Post
    ...Against a single non-elite they can survive if I pay attention and don't make any mistakes. But against an elite or several non-elites I frequently have to stop fighting and go into frantic life-saving mode, which usually ends with me dying.
    IMO this sounds like perfect tuning. Where one can win a 1-on-1 on-level fight but can't sleep through it, and a 1-vs-many or 1-vs-elite fight isn't manageable without great gear, excellent playing, or assistance. Especially for a light armor wearer.

    Perhaps this even benefits crafting by making purple/blue equipment more desirable while leveling.

  13. #38
    Really appriciate what was done in beta to virtue values. Thanks. Without em this would have been nasty.

    There is one point in virtues now. They can be done in raids. No need o grind em solo. As of anyone who likes to play solo, it is doable. By adding virtue complition to raids, its nice carrot for players to group up earlier, do some teamwork on map, run raid in 30- s and above. Raiding give virtues and xp over the top, more then many event like or want.

    So whats advice o midlevels?
    - every time you are getting new skill, try it out, test and adjust your build,
    - teaming up helps,
    - keep virtues up

    Any other ?

  14. #39
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    I noticed the same thing.. way too squishy and have even died a few times from landscape mobs in the new region. My charactors (LM, Minstrel, Warden) are fully geared, virtues, etc. This shouldn't be happening.

  15. #40
    I have a level 81 minstrel, with 5 virtues all 12-14, with best available crafted or quest /storyline gear (into end of Book 2), maxed level reliced and titled 2nd age 75 legendaries (with 10 levels added), using warrior skald tree with 50 points assigned. upgade 1- 5 applied for Will. I have been playing LOTRO for a few years.

    Suddenly, I am a bug. I cannot take a non-named landscape 75 elite at all, though before the update I could pretty easily. I am not saying it's difficult; it's impossible to kill it; Throwing everything I had at it, with using my bubble, kiting, with attacks to which its kind is supposedly especially vulnerable, made barely a dent in it. The area is Limlight Gorge; should be relaxed area for me at 81.

    I like to solo. I ain't gonna raid. I am rarely going to Fellowship.

    Perhaps the classes of the players who say it's easy for them should be nerfed; most in this thread seem to be melee players; or give everyone a toggle for Hell-mode or normal for capped players. (Maybe it could halve their resistances, crit ratings and a few other stats). Then they can have bragging rights, maybe a title.

    Quote "As of remider, rare elites or signatures are suppouse to be taken on only in raid or fellow. They are expected to oneshoot all but hevys. And only good hevy walks away."

    Since when and why? Since the update, and for no good reason. This is NOT a fellowship-mandatory game - or isn't supposed to be.

    edited to clarify legendaries are 2nd age, added levels and stat tomes on character
    Last edited by Ferns; Apr 15 2014 at 06:06 AM.

  16. #41
    Wait a sec.. Limlight gorge is full fellowship quest area. Quests are ment to be don in fellowship of 6 players. All trolls and ents there where abit of challenge back in days. Especially big spiders with nasty venom ads. This may be the area where its simply too har to solo.

    Please dont say its the orc encampents near limlight that are impossible to do, as they where solo content.
    If the orc encampments are too hard, there is a problem for Real.

    Only thing there to do is.. ener godmode. Lvl 78 3rd ager weapon outdpssed lvl 75 second age by alot. To do the quests there, get lvl80 legendarys that have dps or tact damage rating.
    There are currently hughe dps increses on lvl 77, 87 compared to 75 and 85. Other then that, i dont think there is a way to solo em. Only by overlevel.

    Well, have runned there many times in fellowships to get rep done. Not all runs succeeded.
    As it is now, some places cant be done solo.
    I must confess, i did some during last 6 months or so. I knew, its godmode an it would not last.

    I houpe you still find places you can play the char you like, in way you like.

    You know, minis are alaways in high demand for groups... is there any way you would be interested in doing this?
    Its like another game ontop of te game you have.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferns View Post
    Quote "As of remider, rare elites or signatures are suppouse to be taken on only in raid or fellow. They are expected to oneshoot all but hevys. And only good hevy walks away."

    Since when and why? Since the update, and for no good reason. This is NOT a fellowship-mandatory game - or isn't supposed to be.
    Since before HD. Even in Riders of Rohan expac at 85 my minstrel in full raid gear had big trouble with the elites in Limlight. It is a fellowship landscape area and always has been. It is only one of two fellowship landscape areas in the game-the other being parts of angmar. That's hardly forced fellowshipping. Just skip it if you don't want to play it in a group, the way it was intended, designed and meant to be.

    If you have trouble with the Isengard Orcs then you would have a reason to complain. But not about this.

    Edit: As for level 95 plus dieing on the landscape in the new quest areas, that's player error. They are perfectly doable on a minstrel with level 12 incorrect virtues and avarage gear. But you'll need to play using all your skills. You won't be able to go afk. And your morale bar will actually go down while dpsing.

    Personally, I would rather have not had these across the board nerfs to mits as a way of resolving people soloing skraids and 3 manning raids but that's what we got.

    Despite this, it's not that bad. Get your tactical mitigation virtues up asap. Put your self heals back in your dps rotation. Use scrolls of battle and warding. Put will and fate stats back in your build. Welcome to LoTRO pre HD.
    Last edited by Calta; Apr 15 2014 at 06:20 AM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbabumba View Post
    Really appriciate what was done in beta to virtue values. Thanks. Without em this would have been nasty.

    There is one point in virtues now. They can be done in raids. No need o grind em solo. As of anyone who likes to play solo, it is doable. By adding virtue complition to raids, its nice carrot for players to group up earlier, do some teamwork on map, run raid in 30- s and above. Raiding give virtues and xp over the top, more then many event like or want.

    So whats advice o midlevels?
    - every time you are getting new skill, try it out, test and adjust your build,
    - teaming up helps,
    - keep virtues up

    Any other ?
    I see but two options:

    1) Power-level. Soon it would be a must. Just one or two friendly lvl.95s and if you are lvl.50 - make any easyt instance at lvl.58.
    2) Crafting untill all quests in your region are absolutely safe and you can one-shot stuff.

    Turbine, please reroll this "update13". make tier2 instances and raids hard, but please, leave all class statuses as they were prior to Update13!

  19. #44
    As of advice to get the best out of game, i would not suggest powerlevelling at all.
    There is somuch stuff in midlevels you miss, and alot of it is really good solid, mostly bugfree content.
    With 4 chars at 95, 3 in 75+ and 2 in bree craft hall, i stillfind places and things i never saw before. I try to slow level, i try to keep virtues up, but as ofsome content is fellowship stuff especially since Moria, the level just gets out of control.

    And nobody, and especially me is trying to force anything on anybody. Just some areas arefellowship queat areas. Deadly for solo player. They are in North Downs, Hisuk, Tymat, some other, Red Swamp in lonelands, used to be North Trollshaws, Giants in Mistys, and Limlight also. The content there wasnt designed to be done solo.

    I remember some wardens alaways did some crazy stuff, and if target is stunnable, loremasters have a go oin it. But they where hardcore handpick gear masters of they class. And they had put countless days and months into char. And knew perfectly game mechanics.

    Still at 75, some wandeding trolls made trouble and messed up even fellowships.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbabumba View Post
    Wait a sec.. Limlight gorge is full fellowship quest area. Quests are ment to be don in fellowship of 6 players.
    Hmm. Non instanced landscpae area, but ok I'll walk away from the area and move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humbabumba View Post
    You know, minis are alaways in high demand for groups... is there any way you would be interested in doing this?
    Its like another game ontop of te game you have.
    No. It's someone else's game on top of my game.

    I appreciate your kind intent (at least that's how I read you) but - I want to play solo most of the time. I could explain the many reasons why - but no one has to justify why they prefer to play in a particular way. And my preferred manner of playing just got astronomically harder.

    I think the update missed the mark in an effort to please a particular style of play or level capped players.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    Yes, my DPS is very low, in particular in Blue, but self-heals are insane (heal on blocks for example, similar to "Exemplar" skill of Captains ("God Mode" with a lot of mobs))
    You pull dozens of mobs, set auto-attack on, and you can go afk, mobs will heal you (if you're not stunned)...
    (and I have kept the 85 Hytbold gear which gives... +130K morale. I don't understand how such things can be implemented..)
    Okay, so it is a class thing more or less... you can't do that with a hunter or champ, as far as I know Champ needs to hit the selfheal buttons and hunter... well, don't get me started on hunters and the lame excuse for a self heal this class has
    And those are the only two classes I've played far enough to be able to say anything about it.

    That's the reason while global changes usually are a bad idea - of course, finetuning while looking at all the classes and level areas takes a lot more time and work, but it leaves less frustrated players.
    ~ Huntress reincarnated ~

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    ... Despite this, it's not that bad. Get your tactical mitigation virtues up asap. Put your self heals back in your dps rotation. Use scrolls of battle and warding. Put will and fate stats back in your build. Welcome to LoTRO pre HD.
    My build includes will 1,649, fate 501, and lots of mitigation both tactical 5,481 and physical 3,992. My resistance is 11,828. My tactical mastery is 18,583 and physical is 13,971. This is without scrolls or food or other buffs which I DO use. For my level I think these stats are pretty good. This is a level 81 minstrel.

    I played pre HD; this is NOT that. I have been playing LOTRO, as I said, for years, and it's not my first second or third MMO.

    Please do not mock people giving honest feedback; it just drives them away from giving feedback and investing in the game. We are all here because we enjoy the game... right?

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowellan View Post
    Okay, so it is a class thing more or less... you can't do that with a hunter or champ, as far as I know Champ needs to hit the selfheal buttons
    BTW, it could be done with Champs and special gear which healed on received hits and negated damage (I used them in Lib Challenge at 85 where you must not hit birds)
    I don't think these gear still exist but, as received damage was a lot more important before HD, maybe it is still possible to be healed enough at 95 with these 85 gear)

  24. #49
    3 manned one of the 6 man T3 skirmishes last night, Yellow Line Champ tanking, Blue Line Mini, Blue Line Hunter.

    Had 1-2 wipes, (inc Bad pull)

    We started it 2 man, took out a priestess of fire, the wiped on a willbreaker courage breaker + that goblin who constantly spams wound/fear/poison/disease, Grabbed the hunter, killed them.

    I went down in the boss fight, when the mini got stunned, but got rezzed quickly.

    Overall, it felt like a challenge. But again, the fact that we can 2-3 man a 6 man T3, with a yellow line champ implies that a traditional 6 man with full tank is still easy.

    I'm running 35% Tact mit 58% Phys Mit btw
    +6 tokens but no scrolls.
    Ararax

  25. #50
    This thread makes me hopeful that the game is interesting again.

    The confident assertions of what people want are amusing. People want different things. I actually did want more difficult landscape mobs. I wanted it to be the case that those who wanted easy mobs could take the green and blue quests, while those who wanted challenge could opt for orange and red quests. Middle players could seek out white and yellow. That made sense to me, and was consistent with the idea of making different experiences available to different players with different interests.

    At levels 94 and 95, the "easy" group would likely need to look at gear to help them through the last levels of "White" mobs - but that can't be helped.

    Instead, easy mode had been facing off against red and orange, and seeking a challenge meant seeking a different game to play.

    I find it refreshing to have players once again in conversation about, "What are your stats? Your gear? What virtues do you have? What skills are you using?" (Though I prefer questions asked in a tone of, "How can I help?" rather than the condescending sneer of, "Well, obviously you are doing it wrong.")
    Meadowlarke Sweetweed on Landroval. Also nephews and Bounders Ayrhawk, Wrennsong, and Little Meadowlark Sweetweed
    Club Eclair roleplaying group on Landroval currently capped at Level 45 in Rivendell finishing off Book XIII and starting Book XIV (Alphred Troute, Hedgerow Shrewburrow).

 

 
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