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Thread: Too squishy

  1. #801
    to anyone complaining they are "too squishy:" have you ever considered that you're just not any good at your class and/or lotro in general? perhaps the problem doesn't lie in class balancing/gear/virtues.mob difficulty/etc/etc, but in yourself?
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  2. #802
    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    Yeah, in a lot of cases it'll come to the same thing. I guess the problem would be how many are on you at one time. If I shoot 1 does that mean 3 or 4 will come at me also, or will it just be 1 or 2 more? Before the update it didn't matter. Now it does for me anyway as I can only fight 2 at a time.
    Well, if you fight a group siting around a campfire, I think it should pull that entire group.

    Most areas do not have multiple groups of mobs close enough together to aggro the other group, even if the aggro range is decreased.

    Of course there are a few exceptions, but not many.
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  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by devintownsend View Post
    to anyone complaining they are "too squishy:" have you ever considered that you're just not any good at your class and/or lotro in general? perhaps the problem doesn't lie in class balancing/gear/virtues.mob difficulty/etc/etc, but in yourself?
    *sigh*

    Of course that's considered. That's the first thing most people consider - that they are doing something wrong.

    Except that OTHER people who happen to be pretty good at their class and lotro are ALSO getting smacked around pretty hard - All under certain circumstances.

    I don't think you understand the problem. I suggest you read some of the hard data and SPECIFIC examples that are in this thread.
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  4. #804
    I think a lot of people got used to the god mode of the last several months and are having a hard time going back to being able to be harmed my mobs at all. We have became accustom to just DPS because its fun and it defiantly got the job done. Unfortunately now many of our utility skills are gone or deep in other trait lines that are not as thrilling and our big number dps lines. IF a hunter is having trouble with multiple mobs traited as a deep red glass cannon... whose fault is that? There is yellow line that gives massive CC.

    Since the trait trees we don't have as much flexibility as what we used to have, and it can be painful. If you are having trouble maybe its time to try out some others, Quite Knife burgs don't have the same survivability as a gambler or mischief maker. Bowmasters do not have the survivability of a trapper. We just need to be able to separate ourselves from the DPS is everything mentality.
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  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by devintownsend View Post
    to anyone complaining they are "too squishy:" have you ever considered that you're just not any good at your class and/or lotro in general? perhaps the problem doesn't lie in class balancing/gear/virtues.mob difficulty/etc/etc, but in yourself?
    I think I would have worded this differently. However, I do believe that "player skill" does play a significant factor. It may not be pretty... but it is the truth that everyone has strengths/weaknesses... only a few classes are designed to be able to go toe-to-toe with multiple opponents on a regular basis...

    Quote Originally Posted by Volsi View Post
    I think a lot of people got used to the god mode of the last several months and are having a hard time going back to being able to be harmed my mobs at all. We have became accustom to just DPS because its fun and it defiantly got the job done. Unfortunately now many of our utility skills are gone or deep in other trait lines that are not as thrilling and our big number dps lines. IF a hunter is having trouble with multiple mobs traited as a deep red glass cannon... whose fault is that? There is yellow line that gives massive CC.

    Since the trait trees we don't have as much flexibility as what we used to have, and it can be painful. If you are having trouble maybe its time to try out some others, Quite Knife burgs don't have the same survivability as a gambler or mischief maker. Bowmasters do not have the survivability of a trapper. We just need to be able to separate ourselves from the DPS is everything mentality.
    I wanted to highlight, here, some points that are quite valid. People need to be willing to "use their heads" a little bit.

    If you are struggling, why not ask for help? This is an MMO, after all, and there are situations where taking advantage of "group play" is the solution.
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  6. #806
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    So, you're looking for the game to be much harder and requiring groups huh crossy? Who'd a thunk?!

  7. #807
    I dont understand how u ppl can rant about dufficulty in this game....ABSOLUTELY EASY game to play...i am welcoming all the nerfs we get cuz this game is easy as it gets...the only thing about these changes i dont like is that they screw up pvp..freeps are a bit squishy now BUT ONLY in pvp.

    PvE - pls more nrefs to pve..i want challenge that middle earth can give me...not pew pew hello end game..and then pew pew some more and get bored just talking to kin helping lowbies and some crafting...

  8. #808
    Quote Originally Posted by Athrandiel View Post
    I dont understand how u ppl can rant about dufficulty in this game....ABSOLUTELY EASY game to play...i am welcoming all the nerfs we get cuz this game is easy as it gets...the only thing about these changes i dont like is that they screw up pvp..freeps are a bit squishy now BUT ONLY in pvp.

    PvE - pls more nrefs to pve..i want challenge that middle earth can give me...not pew pew hello end game..and then pew pew some more and get bored just talking to kin helping lowbies and some crafting...
    And of course that is opinion. I do not think that the game is so faceroll, I think the difficulty is about good where it is, that is my opinion.
    There are other people who think the game is too hard, that is there opinion. They have a right to voice that opinion just like you.

    It is Turbine's job to decide which side to cater too.
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  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    Drake Matron and Plague-Bearer were fellowship quests (prior to ND revamp, IDK if they are anymore). So the fact that people were LFF for these was WAI.

    Solo quests need to be soloable. Especially when lots of quests are gated behind them. (e.g. Siege Escalated)
    The Drake Matron and the Plague Bearer are both solo quests now. The level drop and reduction of the mobs from Elite+ to Sig+ make the difference. That said, Dol Dinen is still a group recommended zone for 30s. Gazarpan is an Elite Master still, but level 26; so that one is a group recommended quest. Nan Wathren is a very lovely group recommended zone for 25s and is packed with scholar, wood, and ore nodes. Some of the quests that had group recommended capstone quests were changed. The quests are still there (Oathbreaker Captain is an exception), but the chain has changed. The Falconer is still there, but you have to go poking into the keep to get the quest Birds of a Feather.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
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  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dernudan View Post
    And of course that is opinion. I do not think that the game is so faceroll, I think the difficulty is about good where it is, that is my opinion.
    There are other people who think the game is too hard, that is there opinion. They have a right to voice that opinion just like you.

    It is Turbine's job to decide which side to cater too.
    I am going to agree. I didn't think things on the landscape were that bad before and don't think it is bad now (certain situations excepting), but we who were in Beta knew that things were set on the 'very easy' side for a very important reason. Knowing that, one knew that nerfing was coming. I remember the following suggestions in Beta, once the trees themselves were set, which wouldn't happen until several months of live data gathering was done: 1. changing mob AI to up aggro range a bit and the 'call for help' range, particularly in camps/keeps, 2. changing PC mitigations and the contributions to them from base stats and gear (one of the reasons why the HD item level got a big bump was to do some control point data gathering), 3. adding new special attacks to the mob AI and possibly adding a random element, and 4. buffs to mob hit points, self-heals, corruptions/crowd control, and mitigations. A possible 5th would be to change how buffs/nerfs to combat based on level differential was done.

    All of the above *must be done iteratively* and especially with *sufficient live data gathering* for the process to work. We all need to slot more patience :P.
    Last edited by cdq1958; May 01 2014 at 06:11 PM. Reason: typo
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
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  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    3. adding new special attacks to the mob AI and possibly adding a random element, and 4. buffs to mob hit points, self-heals, corruptions/crowd control, and mitigations. A possible 5th would be to change how buffs/nerfs to combat based on level differential was done.
    .
    I really hope #3 happens. Mobs are too predictable. Caster mobs are always going to do this, will melee mobs always have x set of abilities. If they could tweak mob abilities to the point where we do have to pay attention and be ready to counter, it would make for much more engaging gameplay. Right now we don't respect what they can do at all. We don't bother to interrupt casts/abilities, lay down cc and debuffs, pot out of dots/debuffs, pay attention to patrols, don't bother to get out of their aoe, no strategy, no counter, just brute force spam click our dps keys and faceroll into a coma. Right now the game is tuned to people who just want to continue playing their classes on a superficial level. I don't necessarily want the devs to just slam more hp on the mobs and call it a day. Their track record of late gives me the worry that they'll just take that ez way out, and nobody will be happy. But I would seriously love to see the devs give us mobs where we ignore their abilities to our detriment and actually put some depth back into our gameplay. Leveling a L50 burg right now and it's still pretty easy to deal with landscape pve.
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  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by catofnine View Post
    I really hope #3 happens. Mobs are too predictable. Caster mobs are always going to do this, will melee mobs always have x set of abilities. If they could tweak mob abilities to the point where we do have to pay attention and be ready to counter, it would make for much more engaging gameplay. Right now we don't respect what they can do at all. We don't bother to interrupt casts/abilities, lay down cc and debuffs, pot out of dots/debuffs, pay attention to patrols, don't bother to get out of their aoe, no strategy, no counter, just brute force spam click our dps keys and faceroll into a coma. Right now the game is tuned to people who just want to continue playing their classes on a superficial level. I don't necessarily want the devs to just slam more hp on the mobs and call it a day. Their track record of late gives me the worry that they'll just take that ez way out, and nobody will be happy. But I would seriously love to see the devs give us mobs where we ignore their abilities to our detriment and actually put some depth back into our gameplay. Leveling a L50 burg right now and it's still pretty easy to deal with landscape pve.
    I remember #3 being reasonably popular and don't recall any major objections to it. Some of it has already been incorporated in that the mob big hitters had their usage rate increased.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
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    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  13. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athrandiel View Post
    I dont understand how u ppl can rant about dufficulty in this game....ABSOLUTELY EASY game to play...i am welcoming all the nerfs we get cuz this game is easy as it gets...the only thing about these changes i dont like is that they screw up pvp..freeps are a bit squishy now BUT ONLY in pvp.

    PvE - pls more nrefs to pve..i want challenge that middle earth can give me...not pew pew hello end game..and then pew pew some more and get bored just talking to kin helping lowbies and some crafting...
    As much as some may want things a lot harder... we do have to keep in mind a couple of distinctions...

    Landscape quests should generally be on the easier side. You do not want to make it too tedious to work through the majority of the storyline. There certainly is room for some decent, but fairly easy group quest areas. Places like Limelight Gorge are great places (IMHO). Either way, if any areas on the landscape are too difficult, you can effectively halt the leveling process for some people.
    Do remember that people of a variety of skill levels do play this game... the landscape content should meet a happy medium so as to not hold anyone back unnecessarily.

    Instances, Raids, and PvP should be where the more difficult parts of the game exists. Unfortunately, this is the area where the last 1-2 years has not been kind. For whatever reason, the last couple years just hasn't seen any real focus on group content. Yes, it is there in the form of "Epic Battles". But, those need to see some significant "tweaks" to be where they should be.
    Again, though, group content doesn't have to be incredibly hard to be good. To me, the Epic Battle system and Skirmishes are examples of "raids" that (if designed well) are on the easier side... but can still be fun and adequate enough for the average player to enjoy some group content.

    I do hope to see some improvement in the quality of group content so those who like to group do have some decent things to do as well.
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  14. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Do remember that people of a variety of skill levels do play this game... the landscape content should meet a happy medium so as to not hold anyone back unnecessarily.

    Instances, Raids, and PvP should be where the more difficult parts of the game exists. Unfortunately, this is the area where the last 1-2 years has not been kind. For whatever reason, the last couple years just hasn't seen any real focus on group content.
    I'll second you on these points. I've never thought landscape should be where the difficult part of the game lies, even in the existing small fellowship landscape. Instances and raids are where the difficulty should ramp up with T1 being a bit harder than landscape to give the feeling of an actual raid, T2 is much more coordinated and challenging, and T2c is where those of us that like to truly risk it all should be able to go and beat our heads on the proverbial wall of accomplishment.
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  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowellan View Post
    Maybe. But I don't wanna play my hunter in yellow line - it's completely opposed to my way of playing. I rolled an archer and long-distance-dps-dealer, not a trapper and crowd controller.
    I though I was done here, but this post proves a point.

    Traps, Bards arrow, Distracting Shot, Dazing Blow, Low Cut, Barbed Arrow, heck even Quick Shot - all core Hunter skills regardless of traitline (though some are more effective in different traitlines/stances), all have a CC component. When I leveled my hunter 3 years ago I had to use them all.

    I rolled my Hunter to do be ranged DPSer too. To be effective at that I need to employ other skills as well. Please don't tell us the game is too hard if you're not prepared to use the toolkit that is inherent to the class.

  16. #816
    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    Solo quests need to be soloable.
    And, really some genuine group quests that require a group would be nice. As it is, I have had little difficulty soloing fellowship quests in the North Downs at 3 to 5 levels above the character level.

    Now, I would agree - a string of solo quests capped with a fellowship quest is frustrating. However, a region where one can do fellowship quests - genuine fellowship quests - meant only for fellowships the way that Ettenwoods is meant only for PvP - would be nice.

    As it is, last weekend I sent two characters into the Dol Dinen fellowship area and I was able to complete all quests but one solo.
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  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiempko View Post
    And, really some genuine group quests that require a group would be nice. As it is, I have had little difficulty soloing fellowship quests in the North Downs at 3 to 5 levels above the character level.

    Now, I would agree - a string of solo quests capped with a fellowship quest is frustrating. However, a region where one can do fellowship quests - genuine fellowship quests - meant only for fellowships the way that Ettenwoods is meant only for PvP - would be nice.

    As it is, last weekend I sent two characters into the Dol Dinen fellowship area and I was able to complete all quests but one solo.
    EDIT I'm so sorry. I notice now that you're talking about a different set of levels. Have fun on that road and happy gaming! When you have a 34-50 to discuss with me about my game experience further up the thread, please do return for a bit of input.
    Last edited by Macroscian; May 02 2014 at 04:24 AM.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Radbug View Post
    I though I was done here, but this post proves a point.

    Traps, Bards arrow, Distracting Shot, Dazing Blow, Low Cut, Barbed Arrow, heck even Quick Shot - all core Hunter skills regardless of traitline (though some are more effective in different traitlines/stances), all have a CC component. When I leveled my hunter 3 years ago I had to use them all.

    I rolled my Hunter to do be ranged DPSer too. To be effective at that I need to employ other skills as well. Please don't tell us the game is too hard if you're not prepared to use the toolkit that is inherent to the class.
    That's where we have to agree to disagree. I'm playing archer archteypes in online games now since I started with DAoC in 2001. And I've always played them without using any crowd control, asides from stunning and slowing shots... it sometimes was esasier and sometimes I was biting my desk in frustration. Still, I got along without all that annoying trap placing. I'll get along without trap placing now too, even if my desk is gonna get more teeth traces.

    But no way I'm gonna let a patch force me into a way of playing that is no fun to me. Adjusting, yes... but not completely changing. After all there's a reason there are different traitlines, ain't there? I've always disliked "must have" skill builds, it makes every toon to similar and exchangable.


    Oh, by the way, I don't mind to be called a bad player. I am an average-to-bad player... but this is a game, not a competition. I pay for the game (VIP account) same as everyone else - so, shouldn't I be entitled to play it the way I like and have fun? Call me the "Eddie the Eagle" of MMORPGs


    Basically I agree with Crossbow's approach to keep landscape content rather easy and keep up difficulties for group content and raids. Actually I very much support the idea to introduce really hard and challenging new raid instances, so that the people who love challenge have their fun too.
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  19. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Note that bullroarer release notes for update 13.1 here:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ULLROARER-ONLY

    Currently say that mounted mobs are being nerfed. While everything on bullroarer is of course not guaranteed to go live, seems like this might help those who are being blown up by the uruks etc...
    That'll help a little, but not enough. Last night, my level 85 minstrel reached Kingstead and died about 10 times trying to kill Agajas (or whatever the name is, the mounted elite uruk you summon near Entwade with the stolen crate), asked in LFF to find someone to help, couldn't get any, waited around in case someone else came by, and finally had to just keep reraising all buffs, making another try, dying, repeating until I happened to have a pass where I got enough crits and didn't happen to run into other enemies. Finished with <1000 morale, but finished him. Mounted combat for minstrels sucks anyway -- you have so few attacks that if you're forced to not use the AoE ones to avoid pulling nearby mobs, you just can't do any real damage. All you can do is use the AoEs too and then hope you can outpace the extras who join any fight in any area where the mobs aren't separated out.

    Only to get stuck the same way, only without any option to just keep trying, in the Stilling the Wade instance where you're fighting alongside Eowyn and Agelman. And I wasn't even close. I was kiting from the big bad uruk at the end for ten minutes before I couldn't get away anymore, but he wasn't even at half morale yet. He wasn't mounted, so this change won't help.

    I've redone all my virtues and legendaries (both are min-85 second age with T9 relics slotted for survivability and will), and use all available buffs, including some of the store ones. I'm using all my skills. I've also upgraded a lot of my armor significantly as a result of the other Kingstead quests. My stats are way ahead of what I used to have when I went through this content before, easily (on a hunter and a champion).

    Problem is, that linearity of the Western Rohan quests that wasn't a problem for me before means that, now, I am done with LotRO. Don't want to be. This isn't a ragequit. I just have no options for how to continue, because I can't get the next quest. And there's not other areas with other quests I could do to level up and come back overlevel. So I'm stuck at 85 forever, and thus, basically, can't play the game anymore. Time to find something else to do.

    Wish my third and final alt had happened to be a tanky class.
    Last edited by HunterGreen; May 02 2014 at 06:41 AM.

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowellan View Post
    That's where we have to agree to disagree. I'm playing archer archteypes in online games now since I started with DAoC in 2001. And I've always played them without using any crowd control, asides from stunning and slowing shots... it sometimes was esasier and sometimes I was biting my desk in frustration. Still, I got along without all that annoying trap placing. I'll get along without trap placing now too, even if my desk is gonna get more teeth traces.

    But no way I'm gonna let a patch force me into a way of playing that is no fun to me. Adjusting, yes... but not completely changing. After all there's a reason there are different traitlines, ain't there? I've always disliked "must have" skill builds, it makes every toon to similar and exchangable.


    Oh, by the way, I don't mind to be called a bad player. I am an average-to-bad player... but this is a game, not a competition. I pay for the game (VIP account) same as everyone else - so, shouldn't I be entitled to play it the way I like and have fun? Call me the "Eddie the Eagle" of MMORPGs


    Basically I agree with Crossbow's approach to keep landscape content rather easy and keep up difficulties for group content and raids. Actually I very much support the idea to introduce really hard and challenging new raid instances, so that the people who love challenge have their fun too.

    I'm not calling you a bad player and I apologise if it came across that way. I'm pretty terrible myself

    I'm just trying to understand. To me at least, part of being a Hunter is keeping the bad guys away from you. That becomes harder the more baddies there are. I agree that one on one we should melt pretty much anything landscape-wise. We do that don't we? If there are more than one then we have to get creative. Apart from the U12 aberration that's the way the class has always played in my time playing. My post was referencing the fact that the class design with the CC skillls reflects that idea.

    I also agree that landscape shouldn't be too difficult. I'm OK with it where it is now; it's much better than the U12 nonsense. I just don't see where it's any harder than what is was, say, 12 months ago. The thread title bothers me - to me it's inaccurate.

  21. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Note that bullroarer release notes for update 13.1 here:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ULLROARER-ONLY

    Currently say that mounted mobs are being nerfed. While everything on bullroarer is of course not guaranteed to go live, seems like this might help those who are being blown up by the uruks etc...

    They are also giving characters a bit more tactical mitigation for fate and will.
    Meadowlarke Sweetweed on Landroval. Also nephews and Bounders Ayrhawk, Wrennsong, and Little Meadowlark Sweetweed
    Club Eclair roleplaying group on Landroval currently capped at Level 45 in eastern Angmar for all Shadows of Angmar end-game content (Alphred Troute, Hedgerow Shrewburrow).

  22. #822
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    My highest level character is a hunter as well and I have never used traps either. I do use all of the stunning skills often and bards arrow once in a while.
    Again, I'm not complaining about the current state of game in any way. I do understand the lack of appeal in the traps. In a similar way I don't kill kitties and bears and seldom wolves. It's just a preference. The pinning shot is good, too.

  23. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterGreen View Post
    That'll help a little, but not enough. Last night, my level 85 minstrel reached Kingstead and died about 10 times trying to kill Agajas (or whatever the name is, the mounted elite uruk you summon near Entwade with the stolen crate),
    I'm having serious issues with my minstrel around the Entwade area. I'll admit, minstrel is not a class I'm good with at all, it's one of my last characters that I'm taking through the HD expansion. He has hytbold armour, lvl 85 2nd agers, other gear is kind of ok and his virtues could definitely be better - however I have 12 characters, I love leveling alts and exploring content, I don't have time or interest in grinding deeds on all of them right now - I have no intention of doing any instances or raids with him, I have other characters for that. I don't mind a challenge, I really don't, but when I'm getting knocked off my horse within 1 - 2 hits and killed on the next before I have a chance to heal myself or get back on my horse, well it's pretty discouraging, and I'm in serious trouble if I accidentally aoe other mobs, whether mounted or not. I might as well just forget about leveling him at all at this point, it's just not fun for me and there is no where else for me to quest and level.

    My warden on the other hand is still able to hold her own easily, however I've failed numerous solo instances because the npcs keep getting wiped, also incredibly frustrating
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  24. #824
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    The common level rangs I see is it's 85-89 or 94, Entwade and up, that seems to be the biggest issue for everybody. I personally didn't notice a big issue in lower levels, and I don't notice an issue at 95 for sure, even taking on 3-4.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  25. #825
    Well I have to say in general I like the change. We have to be a little more thoughtful about how we go about the landscape or challenge the instances and skirmishes. I have all the classes but as my main is a minstrel it is nice to be actually needed again. To the level 50 I would say think about how to approach a fight, make sure your virtues are growing with you and if you need better equipment ask around if the drops you get are not working for you. More just have fun.

    For seven years I have listened to people complain about the game. I plan on just enjoying the game. Where I think some things might be changed will use bug reports to fix broken things and otherwise make suggestions in the forums.
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