Tactics and strategy can make a huge difference regardless of how you are geared.
Tactics and strategy can make a huge difference regardless of how you are geared.
Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain
Speaking only for myself, I've got good gear. My gear is not the problem. My virtues, while not maxed, are still decent. My virtues are not the problem. Suddenly being only able to survive in blue and often still being overwhelmed then, with no appreciable change in my playstyle, that's the problem.
When you've got a blue-line champion three levels over-level popping all of their emergency skills, having all their potions on cooldown, and still kiting to survive escort quests, something is wrong. :P
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Note that bullroarer release notes for update 13.1 here:
Currently say that mounted mobs are being nerfed. While everything on bullroarer is of course not guaranteed to go live, seems like this might help those who are being blown up by the uruks etc...
Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:27 AM.
I have a capped champ, and what I have noticed is that champs after update 12 were looking like the low man on the dps totem pole, but that didn't matter much as I could still take on 20 landscape mobs with ease. Now comes u13 and I have noticed, in additon to still being low man on the dps totem pole, I am also squishier. What this means is that I can no longer run into the school and aggro the entire room and walk away. I have no issue with that and I suppose going back to having to do three mans with three people is a good thing. Turbine over the years has been pushing us to a more solo play style and well that works for a lot of people but the very nature of this game is that we do things as a "fellowship." The free peoples of Middle Earth banding together to fight the evil hordes of Sauron. However, the community for most low-mid lvl players is not as inclusive as it needs to be for those people to want or in some cases be able to find groups of people to lvl with. I am not only referring to the overall "I can do this by myself" attitude, but the dwindling numbers of people logging in. I hope that with these mit adjustments players will want to get together to help each other and revive the sense of community that we need.
Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:38 AM.
(just a Champ told me the boss of Necro skraid T3 (Doraz) seems more difficult alone (with some 8K hits), but I did not test)
Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:51 AM.
People seem to be drifting away from the problem point.
The problem is NOT things like school, or most other instances (*save one I found, which I will list below). Or ANYTHING at level 95. Nor is it player skill or gear or virtues. Yes, those things help, but they are NOT the problem.
It seems that many recent posters have not read the past content of this thread, which actually did narrow things down to some very specific pain points.
(1) L85 to L89 quests. Specifically examples are around Entwade, Kingstead, etc. There may also be problems in L83-L84 in sutcrufts and thornehope quests. These need a closer look. Again, on-level.
(2) Specific Landscape mobs fought ON-LEVEL. e.g. Mounted Uruks near Entwade (Adjusted on Bullroarer; ty Turbine)
(3) Main line critical-path instances, meant to be run solo, e.g. Securing the Entwade and In Need of Cheering Up (both are L86 Eowyn escort quests). You can't progress in the game without clearing these quests. 99.9% of the players need to be able to clear them. If not 100%. For some of these quests, you can get help, which mitigates the severity of the problem somewhat (sorry solo people). But others are forced solo, and are in need of adjustment.
* Gerngarth instance (hytbold quest out of Harwick), Khundolar spirit masters used to hit hard before U13, now do 700 shadow damage every 2s for 20s PLUS melee damage. This is a L85 instance. These mobs are brutal for melee classes, a tough fight 1-1, and if you get 2 on you, you are dead. Fortunately, even if you never get past these guys, others in the instance are much more reasonable and you can still clear the quest. Not a blocker, but still a shock; there is no clue that these one class of normal looking mobs hit 4x harder than anything else.
Since U13, I have leveled a solo Captain from 1 to 43. I have seen nothing so far that comes even close to the pain caused by the above.
In general, I believe the across-the-board combat/difficulty adjustments are a step in the right direction, but it clearly exposed a few rough spots that are in need of correction as part of the aftermath. This is not surprising. We've had years of content development with OP combat as the basis for testing and approving quests and instances; Of course the content designers made a few quests that do not scale well. Rather than blaming players, or skill, or gear, people need to acknowledge that there are a few places that need attention. We should point those specific problem areas out, get them fixed up, and move on.
If you are a player having problems, you need to call out EXACTLY what you are doing. Level. Quest. Location. Specific mobs. And so on. It all matters.
There's a lot of good analysis around page 20 in this thread. If you have not read it, please go back.
In the aftermath of the U13 combat adjustments: I'm hoping Turbine rethinks the linear quest model. I'd like to see each quest hub have the baseline quests that are needed for progression at the easiest level, where 99%+ of the players should be able to clear them. I'd also like to see each hub have a good number of optional harder quests, perhaps with slightly better rewards, but still soloable for the more skilled players. Nobody is blocked from progressing in the game. Everybody finds the level of difficulty and enjoyment that meets their needs.
I was only pointing out that until they make adjustments we need to be more willing to work together. For every ten people that say that the game is now hard just for the sake of it there is going to some people who post every other post about how they still face roll all content. Obviously, this is not what most people are seeing when they play the game.
"No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
"Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.
For my two copper, I just returned after a break of about a year. I'm playing my top three toons, lvl 85, lvl 75, and lvl 65. I'm rusty, adjusting to the changes, and am not wearing any raid/top gear. I can hold my own, I'm challenged at times, as I should be, but by playing smart, and carefully choosing my skill order, and timing, I'm doing just fine.
I'm an old hand, with fresh perspective, and I find the difficulty balance to be perfect.
BTW I'm playing solo, duo, and small party with other casuals.
My only complaint is not a new one: All instances need to scale, and provide the same percentage chance per participant to earn the same rewards, regardless of group size. The absence of this mechanic caused me to leave after six years of game play, it could cause a repeat.
I bring word from Lord Elrond of Rivendell. An Alliance once existed between Elves and Men. Long ago we fought and died together. We come to honor that allegiance.
I guess the thrust of what I was trying to say was that they were optional quests. You could skip them and be no worse off. People did try to solo them as a challenge.
That's why I think getting away from the linear quest model has some opportunities for a better distribution of quest difficulty.
I think there is room for solo quests which are hard, but which don't gate further content. For example, I recall the buzz generated by the solo instance out of Gathburz with the dwarf - I can't recall the name - but that was pretty fun when it first came out.
~ Huntress reincarnated ~
I guess I disagree with the overall premise that players are too squishy now, since I'm personally not having any issues with that. Then again, I never had issues with Mirkwood landing (or Death From Below for that matter, but nothing was gated behind that). Then again, leveling content shouldn't require crafted gear, maxed virtues, a single viable traitline, etc.; and that people who consider characters to be "average" geared in all teals with crafted 2A weapons are laughably out of touch with casual gaming.
More importantly, though, I don't see how these U13 changes have improved the quality of gameplay. Most solo content was mechanically very easy for strong players prior to U13, and it still is. Dialing up the morale of mobs and reducing player mitigations doesn't change anything important. Most content still doesn't require one to cleanse debuffs, remove corruptions, CC or pull strategically, or anything else that would make gameplay more engaging. It's simply mechanically more tedious to defeat mobs and maintain high morale.
I always felt that the first step to making the game more exciting would be to return the mob agro radius to where it was pre-F2P (i.e. basically double it). Back in the day, you entered a goblin camp with some trepidation because if you pulled badly you'd have 8+ of them around you. Now if two orcs are guarding a gate, you shoot the one on the left and the one on the right just stands there watching you kill his partner. You can literally walk right though the middle of some orc camps without pulling a single mob. It's immersion-breaking and trivializes the content. So if we want to make the game more exciting, that's a good place to start. Just revert mob agro back to the pre-F2P radius.
And finally, while I don't feel that my characters are too squishy, NPCs plainly are, and that has made some solo content either unsoloable or simply too tedious to be bothered with. So until that's fixed, all this is academic for me anyway, as I'll be playing something else.
I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10
For me, increasing the agro range would be the worst possible thing they could do. As it is I'm often running until 4 or 5 orcs stop chasing. More than this, I most often have to kill every single orc or monster in a camp to get to the objective. For me, increasing this procedure has the main effect of making things more tedious - especially combined with increased number of clicks to kill. I just got to level 71 today and have been doing 73's in Great River. That would take 6-8 clicks now. Finishing things up in Dunland on level as well took 4 clicks on average. Those both felt right to me. But if the mobs got buffed or we get nerfed again and it's 15 clicks with 10 orcs chasing - sneaking around trying to only get 1 all the time - that is tedious.
Withywindle characters-Caesaran (warden), Dernudan (Lore master)
Brandywine characters- Dernudan (champion), Denthur (guardian), Delphinianic(captain)
Where it would make a difference is in cases where you can just waltz up and take the objective, and the mobs stand there watching you do it.
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