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Thread: Too squishy

  1. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laithali View Post
    You are not alone, my LM 95 is doing great, my CMP 95 is doing ok but my Hunter 89 is so frustrated to play and all of the above. its no longer any fun. Encounter more than 1 opponent and I am as good as dead looking against hunderds of repair costs lately and no sattisfaction what so ever. Did HD with my LM and had a blast. my hunter is standing in Aldburg shivering and not in the mood to go any further. Read hundreds of pages how to equipe a hunter tried several things, made her the highest jewelerry and armour mostly with a high level agility and nothing helps. I am making myself a white flag I think maybe that helps.
    Might I ask if you have used any of the "control" skills hunters get (like Distracting Shot)? You can fear/mezz/stun 1 opponent while you deal with the other. You could lay down a couple traps before the fight... immobilizing one of them. Hunters also (IIRC) got a new skill that is a 1-target root for like 1 focus point.

    Tactics and strategy can make a huge difference regardless of how you are geared.
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  2. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigred0727 View Post
    Either get someone to make you some gear or make your own - it's really that simple. I see people running around with really bad gear and then wonder why they are having problems - they didn't make the game that much harder from U12. I have 9 characters, 1 of each class ranging from 95 to 27 and I'm not seeing any huge differences in survival but then all my characters have decent gear. And no, before someone asks, some of the lower level characters that I don't play much have no virtues to speak of and they still faceroll.

    Especially at lower levels crafted gear is usually best in slot - so get to crafting!

    Speaking only for myself, I've got good gear. My gear is not the problem. My virtues, while not maxed, are still decent. My virtues are not the problem. Suddenly being only able to survive in blue and often still being overwhelmed then, with no appreciable change in my playstyle, that's the problem.

    When you've got a blue-line champion three levels over-level popping all of their emergency skills, having all their potions on cooldown, and still kiting to survive escort quests, something is wrong. :P

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  3. #778
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Might I ask if you have used any of the "control" skills hunters get (like Distracting Shot)? You can fear/mezz/stun 1 opponent while you deal with the other. You could lay down a couple traps before the fight... immobilizing one of them. Hunters also (IIRC) got a new skill that is a 1-target root for like 1 focus point.

    Tactics and strategy can make a huge difference regardless of how you are geared.
    Oh yes, I tried everything including tactics like you discribe and sometimes that works but when it comes to more than 1 opponent I usualy die. Overal conclusion, my hunter is indeed squishy and that is frustrating. I rather play my LM, also ranged but with the help of my eagle she is invincable up to 95 solo playing. My CMP is a toe to toe fighter level 95 and solo too although HD I did with my daughter who is also CMP LvL 95 and together we stand even in HD.

  4. #779
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    Note that bullroarer release notes for update 13.1 here:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ULLROARER-ONLY

    Currently say that mounted mobs are being nerfed. While everything on bullroarer is of course not guaranteed to go live, seems like this might help those who are being blown up by the uruks etc...

  5. #780
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Note that bullroarer release notes for update 13.1 here:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ULLROARER-ONLY

    Currently say that mounted mobs are being nerfed. While everything on bullroarer is of course not guaranteed to go live, seems like this might help those who are being blown up by the uruks etc...
    I posted that a bit back, nobody reacted

  6. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by Laithali View Post
    Oh yes, I tried everything including tactics like you discribe and sometimes that works but when it comes to more than 1 opponent I usualy die.
    But in Yellow, you can trap/stun a lot of ennemies at same time.
    In particular with Deadly Decoy, which let time to heal yourself while all ennemies are ignoring you.
    (and when your Hunter will be 95, you will regularly hit mobs with 15-20K in Red)
    Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:27 AM.

  7. #782
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    I have a capped champ, and what I have noticed is that champs after update 12 were looking like the low man on the dps totem pole, but that didn't matter much as I could still take on 20 landscape mobs with ease. Now comes u13 and I have noticed, in additon to still being low man on the dps totem pole, I am also squishier. What this means is that I can no longer run into the school and aggro the entire room and walk away. I have no issue with that and I suppose going back to having to do three mans with three people is a good thing. Turbine over the years has been pushing us to a more solo play style and well that works for a lot of people but the very nature of this game is that we do things as a "fellowship." The free peoples of Middle Earth banding together to fight the evil hordes of Sauron. However, the community for most low-mid lvl players is not as inclusive as it needs to be for those people to want or in some cases be able to find groups of people to lvl with. I am not only referring to the overall "I can do this by myself" attitude, but the dwindling numbers of people logging in. I hope that with these mit adjustments players will want to get together to help each other and revive the sense of community that we need.

  8. #783
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejacksoph24 View Post
    What this means is that I can no longer run into the school and aggro the entire room and walk away. I have no issue with that and I suppose going back to having to do three mans with three people is a good thing.
    You can still pull all mobs at same time in Yellow/Red (I had posted a sample for Library in U13P4 (without 1 point of Tact. Mitigation for Will/Fate), same thing that School but with the poison, which does nothing since HD)
    Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:38 AM.

  9. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    You can still pull all mobs at same time in Yellow/Red (I had posted a sample for Library in U13P4 (without 1 point of Tact. Mitigation for Will/Fate), same thing that School but with the poison, which does nothing since HD)

    That was just an example. I chose the school because I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with that instance. Although i find it interesting that out of my entire post that is what you took from it.

  10. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejacksoph24 View Post
    That was just an example. I chose the school because I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with that instance. Although i find it interesting that out of my entire post that is what you took from it.
    Yes, but I had tested most of 3-man to 12 man instances, and I did not notice any difference after U13, Champs are still nearly invincible, even by pulling 30+ mobs
    (just a Champ told me the boss of Necro skraid T3 (Doraz) seems more difficult alone (with some 8K hits), but I did not test)
    Last edited by Castorix; May 01 2014 at 09:51 AM.

  11. #786
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    People seem to be drifting away from the problem point.

    The problem is NOT things like school, or most other instances (*save one I found, which I will list below). Or ANYTHING at level 95. Nor is it player skill or gear or virtues. Yes, those things help, but they are NOT the problem.

    It seems that many recent posters have not read the past content of this thread, which actually did narrow things down to some very specific pain points.

    They are:
    (1) L85 to L89 quests. Specifically examples are around Entwade, Kingstead, etc. There may also be problems in L83-L84 in sutcrufts and thornehope quests. These need a closer look. Again, on-level.
    (2) Specific Landscape mobs fought ON-LEVEL. e.g. Mounted Uruks near Entwade (Adjusted on Bullroarer; ty Turbine)
    (3) Main line critical-path instances, meant to be run solo, e.g. Securing the Entwade and In Need of Cheering Up (both are L86 Eowyn escort quests). You can't progress in the game without clearing these quests. 99.9% of the players need to be able to clear them. If not 100%. For some of these quests, you can get help, which mitigates the severity of the problem somewhat (sorry solo people). But others are forced solo, and are in need of adjustment.

    * Gerngarth instance (hytbold quest out of Harwick), Khundolar spirit masters used to hit hard before U13, now do 700 shadow damage every 2s for 20s PLUS melee damage. This is a L85 instance. These mobs are brutal for melee classes, a tough fight 1-1, and if you get 2 on you, you are dead. Fortunately, even if you never get past these guys, others in the instance are much more reasonable and you can still clear the quest. Not a blocker, but still a shock; there is no clue that these one class of normal looking mobs hit 4x harder than anything else.

    Since U13, I have leveled a solo Captain from 1 to 43. I have seen nothing so far that comes even close to the pain caused by the above.

    In general, I believe the across-the-board combat/difficulty adjustments are a step in the right direction, but it clearly exposed a few rough spots that are in need of correction as part of the aftermath. This is not surprising. We've had years of content development with OP combat as the basis for testing and approving quests and instances; Of course the content designers made a few quests that do not scale well. Rather than blaming players, or skill, or gear, people need to acknowledge that there are a few places that need attention. We should point those specific problem areas out, get them fixed up, and move on.

    If you are a player having problems, you need to call out EXACTLY what you are doing. Level. Quest. Location. Specific mobs. And so on. It all matters.

    There's a lot of good analysis around page 20 in this thread. If you have not read it, please go back.

    --------------

    In the aftermath of the U13 combat adjustments: I'm hoping Turbine rethinks the linear quest model. I'd like to see each quest hub have the baseline quests that are needed for progression at the easiest level, where 99%+ of the players should be able to clear them. I'd also like to see each hub have a good number of optional harder quests, perhaps with slightly better rewards, but still soloable for the more skilled players. Nobody is blocked from progressing in the game. Everybody finds the level of difficulty and enjoyment that meets their needs.

  12. #787
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    I was only pointing out that until they make adjustments we need to be more willing to work together. For every ten people that say that the game is now hard just for the sake of it there is going to some people who post every other post about how they still face roll all content. Obviously, this is not what most people are seeing when they play the game.

  13. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejacksoph24 View Post
    I was only pointing out that until they make adjustments we need to be more willing to work together. For every ten people that say that the game is now hard just for the sake of it there is going to some people who post every other post about how they still face roll all content. Obviously, this is not what most people are seeing when they play the game.
    Yeah. Personally, I like it when a few quests trigger a call for help on glff. But I understand the payers who want to just solo as well. Anybody who has played for a while probably remembers the periodic calls for help in the North Downs for Plague-Bearer of the North. Or the Matron (drake). Totally optional quests. Decent rewards. And nicely challenging on-level. We don't see much of those any more. Honestly, I would have liked to have seen more of this kind of content in Rohan. I know Warbands were supposed to be the new impromptu group content, but they somehow don't quite feel the same. Perhaps there is room for both.

  14. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viniel View Post
    Yeah. Personally, I like it when a few quests trigger a call for help on glff. But I understand the payers who want to just solo as well. Anybody who has played for a while probably remembers the periodic calls for help in the North Downs for Plague-Bearer of the North. Or the Matron (drake). Totally optional quests. Decent rewards. And nicely challenging on-level. We don't see much of those any more. Honestly, I would have liked to have seen more of this kind of content in Rohan. I know Warbands were supposed to be the new impromptu group content, but they somehow don't quite feel the same. Perhaps there is room for both.
    About war-bands, well those were designed to be not only impromptu group content (and in Wildermore there is a deed that requires you to do the fellowship and raid bands), they were designed with open tapping in mind. That means that the calls for help would not be needed where people in the area could form an ad hoc group simply by riding in and tapping the band. Additionally, the call for help could only easily be done before engaging the band or after you were defeated.
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  15. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by Viniel View Post
    Yeah. Personally, I like it when a few quests trigger a call for help on glff. But I understand the payers who want to just solo as well. Anybody who has played for a while probably remembers the periodic calls for help in the North Downs for Plague-Bearer of the North. Or the Matron (drake). Totally optional quests. Decent rewards. And nicely challenging on-level. We don't see much of those any more. Honestly, I would have liked to have seen more of this kind of content in Rohan. I know Warbands were supposed to be the new impromptu group content, but they somehow don't quite feel the same. Perhaps there is room for both.
    Drake Matron and Plague-Bearer were fellowship quests (prior to ND revamp, IDK if they are anymore). So the fact that people were LFF for these was WAI.

    Solo quests need to be soloable. Especially when lots of quests are gated behind them. (e.g. Siege Escalated)

  16. #791
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    For my two copper, I just returned after a break of about a year. I'm playing my top three toons, lvl 85, lvl 75, and lvl 65. I'm rusty, adjusting to the changes, and am not wearing any raid/top gear. I can hold my own, I'm challenged at times, as I should be, but by playing smart, and carefully choosing my skill order, and timing, I'm doing just fine.

    I'm an old hand, with fresh perspective, and I find the difficulty balance to be perfect.

    BTW I'm playing solo, duo, and small party with other casuals.

    My only complaint is not a new one: All instances need to scale, and provide the same percentage chance per participant to earn the same rewards, regardless of group size. The absence of this mechanic caused me to leave after six years of game play, it could cause a repeat.
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  17. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    Drake Matron and Plague-Bearer were fellowship quests (prior to ND revamp, IDK if they are anymore). So the fact that people were LFF for these was WAI.
    Both are solo-able now. Just did them about a week ago on my leveling captain. Roughly on-level. I don't recall if it they are currently marked as fellowship.

    I guess the thrust of what I was trying to say was that they were optional quests. You could skip them and be no worse off. People did try to solo them as a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    Solo quests need to be soloable. Especially when lots of quests are gated behind them. (e.g. Siege Escalated)
    I completely agree that any quests which gate clusters of content should be soloable by a very high percentage of the player base. If not all. I remember some folks who had bought Mirkwood and couldn't get past the landing instance. That was bad. And it absolutely was a player skill/gear issue, but that's not the point. They had paid for a Quest Pack and were unable to access 99% of it.

    That's why I think getting away from the linear quest model has some opportunities for a better distribution of quest difficulty.

    I think there is room for solo quests which are hard, but which don't gate further content. For example, I recall the buzz generated by the solo instance out of Gathburz with the dwarf - I can't recall the name - but that was pretty fun when it first came out.

  18. #793
    Quote Originally Posted by Viniel View Post
    I recall the buzz generated by the solo instance out of Gathburz with the dwarf - I can't recall the name - but that was pretty fun when it first came out.
    Death from Below, That was a tough one for certain classes and a breeze for others
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  19. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman76 View Post
    I posted that a bit back, nobody reacted
    I've noticed, but somehow didn't reply. And I thought it to be good news - it won't adress all problems, but at least one of the major ones, so I really hope it's gonna go live that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    But in Yellow, you can trap/stun a lot of ennemies at same time.
    In particular with Deadly Decoy, which let time to heal yourself while all ennemies are ignoring you.
    (and when your Hunter will be 95, you will regularly hit mobs with 15-20K in Red)
    Maybe. But I don't wanna play my hunter in yellow line - it's completely opposed to my way of playing. I rolled an archer and long-distance-dps-dealer, not a trapper and crowd controller.
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  20. #795
    I guess I disagree with the overall premise that players are too squishy now, since I'm personally not having any issues with that. Then again, I never had issues with Mirkwood landing (or Death From Below for that matter, but nothing was gated behind that). Then again, leveling content shouldn't require crafted gear, maxed virtues, a single viable traitline, etc.; and that people who consider characters to be "average" geared in all teals with crafted 2A weapons are laughably out of touch with casual gaming.

    More importantly, though, I don't see how these U13 changes have improved the quality of gameplay. Most solo content was mechanically very easy for strong players prior to U13, and it still is. Dialing up the morale of mobs and reducing player mitigations doesn't change anything important. Most content still doesn't require one to cleanse debuffs, remove corruptions, CC or pull strategically, or anything else that would make gameplay more engaging. It's simply mechanically more tedious to defeat mobs and maintain high morale.

    I always felt that the first step to making the game more exciting would be to return the mob agro radius to where it was pre-F2P (i.e. basically double it). Back in the day, you entered a goblin camp with some trepidation because if you pulled badly you'd have 8+ of them around you. Now if two orcs are guarding a gate, you shoot the one on the left and the one on the right just stands there watching you kill his partner. You can literally walk right though the middle of some orc camps without pulling a single mob. It's immersion-breaking and trivializes the content. So if we want to make the game more exciting, that's a good place to start. Just revert mob agro back to the pre-F2P radius.

    And finally, while I don't feel that my characters are too squishy, NPCs plainly are, and that has made some solo content either unsoloable or simply too tedious to be bothered with. So until that's fixed, all this is academic for me anyway, as I'll be playing something else.

  21. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Volsi View Post
    Death from Below, That was a tough one for certain classes and a breeze for others
    Hated that, avoided it at all costs. Luckily it wasn't required and gated nothing behind it. WAI.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  22. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post

    I always felt that the first step to making the game more exciting would be to return the mob agro radius to where it was pre-F2P (i.e. basically double it). Back in the day, you entered a goblin camp with some trepidation because if you pulled badly you'd have 8+ of them around you. Now if two orcs are guarding a gate, you shoot the one on the left and the one on the right just stands there watching you kill his partner. You can literally walk right though the middle of some orc camps without pulling a single mob. It's immersion-breaking and trivializes the content. So if we want to make the game more exciting, that's a good place to start. Just revert mob agro back to the pre-F2P radius.

    And finally, while I don't feel that my characters are too squishy, NPCs plainly are, and that has made some solo content either unsoloable or simply too tedious to be bothered with. So until that's fixed, all this is academic for me anyway, as I'll be playing something else.

    For me, increasing the agro range would be the worst possible thing they could do. As it is I'm often running until 4 or 5 orcs stop chasing. More than this, I most often have to kill every single orc or monster in a camp to get to the objective. For me, increasing this procedure has the main effect of making things more tedious - especially combined with increased number of clicks to kill. I just got to level 71 today and have been doing 73's in Great River. That would take 6-8 clicks now. Finishing things up in Dunland on level as well took 4 clicks on average. Those both felt right to me. But if the mobs got buffed or we get nerfed again and it's 15 clicks with 10 orcs chasing - sneaking around trying to only get 1 all the time - that is tedious.

  23. #798
    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    I guess I disagree with the overall premise that players are too squishy now, since I'm personally not having any issues with that. Then again, I never had issues with Mirkwood landing (or Death From Below for that matter, but nothing was gated behind that). Then again, leveling content shouldn't require crafted gear, maxed virtues, a single viable traitline, etc.; and that people who consider characters to be "average" geared in all teals with crafted 2A weapons are laughably out of touch with casual gaming.

    More importantly, though, I don't see how these U13 changes have improved the quality of gameplay. Most solo content was mechanically very easy for strong players prior to U13, and it still is. Dialing up the morale of mobs and reducing player mitigations doesn't change anything important. Most content still doesn't require one to cleanse debuffs, remove corruptions, CC or pull strategically, or anything else that would make gameplay more engaging. It's simply mechanically more tedious to defeat mobs and maintain high morale.

    I always felt that the first step to making the game more exciting would be to return the mob agro radius to where it was pre-F2P (i.e. basically double it). Back in the day, you entered a goblin camp with some trepidation because if you pulled badly you'd have 8+ of them around you. Now if two orcs are guarding a gate, you shoot the one on the left and the one on the right just stands there watching you kill his partner. You can literally walk right though the middle of some orc camps without pulling a single mob. It's immersion-breaking and trivializes the content. So if we want to make the game more exciting, that's a good place to start. Just revert mob agro back to the pre-F2P radius.

    And finally, while I don't feel that my characters are too squishy, NPCs plainly are, and that has made some solo content either unsoloable or simply too tedious to be bothered with. So until that's fixed, all this is academic for me anyway, as I'll be playing something else.

    Agreed,
    I have not played before f2p but it is immersion breaking to pull a mob and the friend he was talking to does nothing.

    All of your other points I agree with as well.
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  24. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by ElanorFb View Post
    I most often have to kill every single orc or monster in a camp to get to the objective.
    Not trying to be pedantic, but in this case, increasing the agro radius will make no difference. You have to kill all the mobs either way.

    Where it would make a difference is in cases where you can just waltz up and take the objective, and the mobs stand there watching you do it.

  25. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by LillianaWarsaw View Post
    Not trying to be pedantic, but in this case, increasing the agro radius will make no difference. You have to kill all the mobs either way.

    Where it would make a difference is in cases where you can just waltz up and take the objective, and the mobs stand there watching you do it.
    Yeah, in a lot of cases it'll come to the same thing. I guess the problem would be how many are on you at one time. If I shoot 1 does that mean 3 or 4 will come at me also, or will it just be 1 or 2 more? Before the update it didn't matter. Now it does for me anyway as I can only fight 2 at a time.

 

 
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