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Thread: Too squishy

  1. #1

    Too squishy

    I'm not sure what to do...tonight has been an exercise in frustration. My rune keeper and minstrel are now so squishy they're pretty much no longer playable. Against a single non-elite they can survive if I pay attention and don't make any mistakes. But against an elite or several non-elites I frequently have to stop fighting and go into frantic life-saving mode, which usually ends with me dying.

    Since the update I notice that my toons get hit much harder, to the point where a single hit can knock down a third of their health which causes me to have to stop fighting and concentrate on staying alive...usually ending in my dying before I can recover my health. I also notice it takes a whole lot longer for my toons to kill stuff. This is not only not fun but it is far worse and far more difficult than combat pre-trait trees.

    I suppose a handful of experienced long-timer lv95 hard core players rejoice with this change...but my toons are 50s and 60s and I just play for fun a few evenings a week. For me, the casual gamer, this is almost a show stopper. At the moment I don't see how I will get anymore of my toons through Moria, where elites and swarms abound and in which escape isn't as easy as out in the open.

    I can only pray that this terrible combat situation will be tweaked a bit. I don't want the game to be too easy but it shouldn't be too hard either and right now for rune keepers and minstrels it's a real bummer.

  2. #2
    I hope you find some balance there. As a starter, id look long and hard, what virtures you have slotted and is there way to improve them. All starter areas + pre- Moria, shokld give you virtues up to 8 or more. You dont have to kill solo evendim or mistys giants, deeds couny now in raids.

    As s rule of thumb, on s map slot phys mitigation and resistance, in dkirms and instas, tactical mitigation.

    For a long time virtues and deeds where somewhst as optional, hobby, to look good. Not anymore.

    Snd well, lets see what song ill be singing when i log my minibin 50-s, and enter Moria.

    Changes where done, because when players reached lvl 91+, they could pretty much enter any insta, on any class, kick ads with jackboot to teeth thru the spine, max 20 sec boss .. brawl, it wasnt even fight anymore, and take jewels on a way out. All done in 3 to 5 mins. Honestly, after few runs it starts to be less fun. And when you reach lvl 95, you find, that there was .... nothing. So to make game a challenge, chsnges where made. Its beacsuse the hsrfship and challenge you remember.

  3. #3
    I agree. I roll a 95 Champ, and having the top gear in the game makes this new combat survivable. However, I also am rolling as lvl 56 Guard as I am typing this. I just attempted a lowly t1 skirm (Tuckborough) ON LEVEL. MY guard has all purple gear, not a single piece with a level below 50. I died over 8 times. On t1, same level. This is slightly ridiculous. I can fully understand it from the point of a lvl 95, but as soon as you hop on a lower level character, it becomes near impossible. I'm not saying I want to be able to solo a t3 skirm with my 56 guard, thats left for 95. But when its to the point I have one of the best shields possible at my level and I feel like i'm wearing light armour, then we seem to have an issue. I am one of the ones that did want the game slightly harder, but not like this, where a rank 1 creep cant be killed unless the freeps have 6 people zerging him.

  4. #4
    Briantc123...thank you! I knew there had to be others who felt as I do!

    I understand the boredom the lv95s probably felt but this change is a show stopper for everyone else and might cause long term financial harm to turbine if new players quit the game by level 20...like what happened in wow years ago.

    I am going to hang on to hope that this gets fixed in a way that's fair to the 95s and all the rest of us too. I was so excited to finish Moria on my hunter but if things don't change I'll never get to see the rest of middle earth outside of stealth mode :-(,,,,,,,,,,

  5. #5
    What is your skirmish solider? Herbalist or? And id look at virtues first.
    If its too bad, there will be adjustments, but its a struggle from now on. Id say resistance, block, parry evade and mitigations first, then the rest.

    I died and failed some t3 raids yesterday, t3, 6 manned. It was great:] I suppose i traited masochism too deep :]

    But as of useful advice: look at virtues and what they give. Anything pre Moria gives, you need. Join global, i see alot of deeding going on.
    As a rule of thumb, when deeding, in low lvl areas, you alaways invite all players you meet to join fellow, so you dont disturb or kill all the mobs they need.

    And i really try to log my lvl 54 mini today.

    I think if someone posts hey i have virtues at 9 at lvl 50, this is my 3rd char, and i dont survive on Eregion map, then id say there is an issue.

    Look at virtues, look at your trait trees.
    Free ride to everybody hurted the game so much, that i dont think it couod have been any worse. It was necceaary to do this.
    And dont give up hope. If things in mid levels are unbearable, iam sure adbustments to virtue values in lower levels roll out within weeks.

    And therw is alaways alot of to do. Crafting, deeding.
    I hope this post is agleast somehow useful.
    Last edited by Humbabumba; Apr 15 2014 at 03:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    I have a theory, i dont think its the content i think its the players, turbine made the game extremely easy over the past 2 expansions and now we have players who basically hit a few buttons and the mob is dead, but now after U13 hit i feel these players could potentially be very poor players. Now this is not a dig in any way, but nowadays players expect the mob to be dead before it reaches them, more so with ranged classes, so they kinda ignore certain skills etc. I think this is the problem, and the fact they have maybe mediocre gear/jewels/weapons etc etc.


    To many players stand in one spot and assume the mob will die before they take a hit, they no longer move to avoid and such like, we need to expect a few smaller issues are a change like the mitigation change we just got, i player my cappy through the book last night and the first new area, its still to easy, but yeah the mobs did hit a tad bit harder, i did a few T3 raids and there so so, games going in a better direction, people just need to understand that and accept it.

    An easy game and all that :-(
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    I have a theory, i dont think its the content i think its the players, turbine made the game extremely easy over the past 2 expansions and now we have players who basically hit a few buttons and the mob is dead, but now after U13 hit i feel these players could potentially be very poor players.
    Yes, exactly.

    At lvl 95, the game is still a total faceroll : T2/T3 skraids are still soloable.
    With my Guardian, I can go afk with 30+ mobs on me !
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 04:32 AM.

  8. #8
    i also feel that this was a good change, and also they did not go far enough, MOAR NERFS please

  9. #9
    My hunter always been squishy
    “A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -???

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    Yes, exactly.

    At lvl 95, the game is still a total faceroll : T2/T3 skraids are still soloable.
    With my Guardian, I can go afk with 30+ mobs on me !
    well not everyone plays a guard or warden:P
    “A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities.” -???

  11. #11
    I rather say lets hold our horses stedy.
    I remember what was to leel my first char during too times. Crafted everything, foods pots scrolls all the way, if you wanted to survive 5 mobs on you. I think a word of good advice to fellow players is of more value now, then ever.
    Advice on class, tactics, tricks of trade.
    I agree completly, its a step in better direction. But we should not forget players on love levels. And there is thing called pvp. This i dont know nothing about, right now.

    I am pretty sure turbine an devs are one big ear right now. So lets give em good info.

    Lvls 40 to 50 where a strech back then, seems this is back.
    Good info, advice, what works, what not is what is needed.

    I really hope there will NO posts "noobs learn to play or diiiiie" as, its no use to anybody and its really not the players fault in any way.
    They joine the game in prolonged period f greater grace ov Valar. Looks like saruman picked a fight with wrong deity, and look how it turned out for him. Now Isengard is flooded, and we have our work cutted out for us.

    So lets be polite, helpful and good ppl to play with. We need players. Strenght is sometimes in numbers.

    Now, what class solos t3 skirms,and how many hous it takes. Can you be more specific.
    Animal friend loremaster maybe cappy, guard somehow, but still. More info on soloing t3 pls? What skirm?
    Last edited by Humbabumba; Apr 15 2014 at 04:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    Yes, exactly.

    At lvl 95, the game is still a total faceroll : T2/T3 skraids are still soloable.
    With my Guardian, I can go afk with 30+ mobs on me !
    Um - you do know that you're just comparing a level 95 tank class with probably top equipment with a low- to midlevel hunter, a class that's not exactly famous for survivability? That's a very bad case of comparing apples with oranges there.

    I got a 75 hunter and a 80 champ right now and I know that mobs and encounters my hunter really has to use a lot of skills and pots and scrolls and tactics my champ just runs into the middle of things, pulls a handful of mobs and just starts spamming aoe skills, throwing in a heal or two if things start to get nasty.


    Edit: Whoops, sorry, mixed up the two threads... it's a rune keeper here, not hunter, that was the other thread Anyway, rune keeper ain't exactly a tanking class either
    Last edited by Rowellan; Apr 15 2014 at 04:46 AM.
    ~ Huntress reincarnated ~

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
    well not everyone plays a guard or warden:P
    I have also a "weak" Hunter, bad geared
    I'm pretty certain I can still doing (in Yellow or Blue) Necro skraid until boss like before (better Hunters could beat the boss)
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 04:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Rowellan View Post
    Um - you do know that you're just comparing a level 95 tank class with probably top equipment
    No, my Guardian has no stat tomes, 85 gear, purple items and 65 LIs !
    Largely sufficient to solo everything with an incredible ease...
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 04:50 AM.

  15. #15
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    After running about 30 tier 3 skraids at 95 today, they remind me of the way t2 skraids felt at 85 before Update 9. (i.e. people who didn't wait for a tank to get aggro would die, and those with low tactical mitigation, could get one-shotted).

    For example, I noticed my hunter, with 14,500 morale and 30% tactical mitigation could survive a grimm AoE while a 20,000 morale dps champ would die. why? because the dps champ had low tactical mitigation virtues.

    It is going to take some time for low lvls and high levels to adjust back to a more normalized LotRO experience.

    In fact, if you are struggling, it is likely because you have been too used to an easier gameplay for the last 5 months.

    I remember doing t1 solo skirmishes on my hunter at lvl 40 3 years ago and dieing over and over, I see the same types of feelings from you here. But then I learned a few things. 1. train a class appropriate skirmish pet (a lvl 20 trained herbalist isn't going to help much in a lvl 40 skirmish, you need to train the pet as well). 2. learn how to use crowd control skills or debuffs to help ensure your success.

    All in all, I'm pleasently surprised that the the traditional LotRO forged for 7 years has now reappeared in Update 13. Just have patience, study your class, and figure out how to achieve success.
    LvL 100s: Beorning, Burglar, Captain, Champ, Guardian, Hunter, Lore-Master, Minstrel, Rune-Keeper
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfincat View Post
    I suppose a handful of experienced long-timer lv95 hard core players rejoice with this change...but my toons are 50s and 60s and I just play for fun a few evenings a week. For me, the casual gamer, this is almost a show stopper. At the moment I don't see how I will get anymore of my toons through Moria, where elites and swarms abound and in which escape isn't as easy as out in the open.
    Some of us experienced long-timer lv95 hard core players expressed concern over what these changes were going to do to non-level capped players without elite gear. The issue was raised that it would play havoc with characters as they leveled up, and you're in a tough phase for light classes. It's proportionately harder in the 50s than it is most anywhere else, and I appreciate what you're going through. Trust me, it was brought up.

    The changes didn't really affect me at all so if that was Turbine's intention it didn't work. I play a minstrel, she's 95 and has pretty much the best of everything. I haven't noticed really any difference because I was taking on lvl 95 mobs with 33k health and not breaking a sweat as I dps'd. I did throw one small heal on myself because I could, but it wasn't really needed - more like habit. It takes me an extra hit or two because I lost 6k mastery with the nerf. Before that, as soon as I logged on, I healed a 9-person T3 skirm tonight, broke 22k hps (still using that 85 2nd age healing mace, 95 2nd age book) and never used anything but bolster courage. Oh, I threw the group bubble once just to see the glow. My physical mit is still capped with a scroll, and tactical mit is 38%. The grand affect of all this on me was negligible - but to characters below cap it was very significant in a bad way.

    I'm sorry. I wish it had been different. But please don't think people like me - I'd fit your description - didn't think of people coming up the ranks and try to get them to stop and reconsider. We did.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  17. #17
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    The problem began with the Rise of Isengard changes to medium and light armor, those changes went too far and heavy armor classes are god like at end game and the medium and light folks are just too squishy. As stated above a guard can go afk with tons of mobs on it while a hunter is hard pressed using all available skills/pots/scrolls/food with 6 or 7 mobs. Need to redress the imbalance of armor mitigation contributions.

  18. #18
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    My champ yesterday had some hard time versus two lvl.95 wargs and problems with 2 wargs + one Orc captain.
    Well, some players screamed about "easy mode"...and we got squishy classes, too squishy to survive. Even my champion with adequate heavy armour and good virtues (well, they were good prior to Upgrade13) is squishy.

    I'm not sure if that was intended. If it was - there would be too little intentions to play the game itself. Grind reputation witrh the ents - check. Grind remaining reputation with remaining factions - check. Is it what Turbine wanted?

    What needs to be done, is returning to class status prior to Update13. If they want challenge - they may upgrade monsters a bit. Current situation is a bit unacceptable.

    And yeah, for those screaming about "easy mode" - get your own hard mode. Go without armour and weapons to solo Rift. There you will find so highly praised "challenge", "hard mode", "learning curve" and other things you enjoy.

  19. #19
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    Hmm did they changed the difficulty?
    If so that's sounds as an improvement.
    Game is so easy nowdays that I could barely used any strategy with my hunter. Not to mention that my warden could possibly kill the entire Sauron's orc army alone.
    It's simply a matter of time to chew their numbers :P

    Definitely there must be some care with lower chars survivability though

    I haven't played the lower levels for the same reason I do not play anymore my high level chars but this change tempts me to try again

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    No, my Guardian has no stat tomes, 85 gear, purple items and 65 LIs !
    Largely sufficient to solo everything with an incredible ease...
    Thats until raid mechanics kick in and some liutenant buffs all mobs to deal 50% more damage, or defencive skirm wher you have suicidal elfs. So i still question the value of statement, that all can be soloed. Pls some more info. And lvl60 items... thats ... shield use rank.. 8 ? Erm..how long does the fight takes? An hour? Or more?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    Even my champion with adequate heavy armour and good virtues (well, they were good prior to Upgrade13) is squishy.
    95 Champ squishy in PVE ?!!!
    In Blue, I can still solo a raid like Helegrod Giant, which is absurd !
    In 3-man instances... just a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    And yeah, for those screaming about "easy mode" - get your own hard mode. Go without armour and weapons to solo Rift. There you will find so highly praised "challenge", "hard mode", "learning curve" and other things you enjoy.
    Nonsense.
    The gameplay is based on progression.
    They could then remove LIs, loots, gear, jewels...
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 15 2014 at 05:26 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    And yeah, for those screaming about "easy mode" - get your own hard mode. Go without armour and weapons to solo Rift. There you will find so highly praised "challenge", "hard mode", "learning curve" and other things you enjoy.
    Most people weren't asking for Turbine to make landscape mobs hard because I don't think that's where "challenge" should be based. People were asking for difficulty to be put into instanced content/scaled raids that already exist and to make more of them. Make them what they should be. Instead we got U13.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  23. #23
    Okey, pls sahre your stats, gear an traiting tips.
    I really like to see you soloing trait points setup.

    As there is no way you can have defencive and offencive stats at the same time, to do t3 skirms solo and in some reasonable timeframe. Its possible, if you really carefully pick some fights, and leave others. You can not do them all, solo T3.

    And hey, this topic was not about lvl95 hevy vets. Its good to hear things are working well for you.

    This topic was about lvl50 light armor player, who had some hard times since U13. Can you relate to that and give some good advice? Something that actually helps? Anyhing?

    There is alot of content in between, and there is virtue and stat curves. What is your advice to lvl50 player.

  24. #24
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    Some geniuses were screaming about "easy modes", "facerolls" and alike. Like "me is big player me solo anything barehanded and 'tis a faceroll, plz make hard mode".

    What screamers wanted - they have got. A small part of community that screamed loud got hard mode. Got every class squishy. Same small part would be active now telling how good things are when they are not.

    I think Turbine should understand difference between making all classes squishy - and making so much praised "challenge".

    Making all classes squishy --> lots of unhappy players -->probably less profit.
    Making optinal instances (not required in epic line) harder -->more interest for players -->probably more raiders returning -->possibly more profit/more game population.

    I guess no one would ever object if some optional instance/raid is made harder so that player thinks twice before starting. That rewards for those who survive would be good too. And that monsters in a hard instance could even adapt to battle style. But what can be objected - is making characaters stripped off vital statuses and making them squishy.

    Turbine, please harden instances if screamers want so...but please, return player statuses to how they used to be before Update 13.


    For lvl.50 player? Only one advice: get your main toon to grind thousands of task items. Pass them to level 50 toon. Turn in task items. Do lots of crafting, no matter what and why (main toon should support with materials). And when quests are absolutely safe - do them. That's the only logic outcome in these days.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NaktiesKarys View Post
    Making all classes squishy --> lots of unhappy players -->probably less profit.
    FYI, all my kin mates and friends (casual players) have gone because of overall facerolling (and no more raids/instances in 2014)

 

 
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