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Thread: Defilers = OP

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voter View Post
    This point you make... /sigh. If a freep applies bleeds onto a creep it is fair and respectable, however those very same bleeds (now filtered thru mitigation) placed back onto the freep is as op as a nuke? Keep in mind it is once per minute. How many hp can be applied to that freep in that period (by the individual himself)? How about the spider, how many hp can it apply while sustaining these bleeds?
    uhmmm being a red line dps it cant. and if u get full build up it lasts through all the bleeds a rank1 spider should not be able to hit tc and burrow and win that way. keep in mind weaver bleeds non crit are as potent as non crit warden bleeds now. reflect is extremely broken game wide. its the same as blood of fire, however blood of fire is way less potent. that freep has no time to react because it only has 20k morale. while the spider has at least double

  2. #127
    The morale difference is the problem with weaver reflect, it's a 100% reflect in raw damage, but percentage-wise compared to the morale of the affected player it's more like a 300% reflect. If the reflect was something like 35% it's probably not that much of a problem.

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Voter View Post
    This point you make... /sigh. If a freep applies bleeds onto a creep it is fair and respectable, however those very same bleeds (now filtered thru mitigation) placed back onto the freep is as op as a nuke? Keep in mind it is once per minute. How many hp can be applied to that freep in that period (by the individual himself)? How about the spider, how many hp can it apply while sustaining these bleeds?
    Wait, haha, are you actually trying to defend TC as being balanced as it is in its current state?

    For myself, I'm disgusted with a lot of the changes, but the TC change was especially annoying for me. I can't (read: won't) even play my spider anymore even though it's one of my favorite LOTRO classes because I'm so utterly turned off by the changes. I know several defilers on Gladden who can't (read: won't) play their high-ranking defilers anymore because they're disgusted by the changes too.

    Even though it's all rather patronizing to the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13, it's frustrating for those of us who actually could get kills and wanted slight changes, not sweeping drastic ones like what we got.

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Wait, haha, are you actually trying to defend TC as being balanced as it is in its current state?

    For myself, I'm disgusted with a lot of the changes, but the TC change was especially annoying for me. I can't (read: won't) even play my spider anymore even though it's one of my favorite LOTRO classes because I'm so utterly turned off by the changes. I know several defilers on Gladden who can't (read: won't) play their high-ranking defilers anymore because they're disgusted by the changes too.

    Even though it's all rather patronizing to the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13, it's frustrating for those of us who actually could get kills and wanted slight changes, not sweeping drastic ones like what we got.
    Actually I dont think I have used the word "balanced" ever in a thread unless I was quoting someone. To "balance" all classes in a pvp environment is unrealistic. I dont want the devs spending a ridiculous number of man hours working on the moors (creating trait lines, skill points, etc). They need to create new pve content to maintain and draw subscribers. Without the money we don't have lotro. The moors is not drawing in new subscribing players to lotro, pve is. To ask the devs to restructure the moors is really pretty short sited. That point is stretching beyond your comment Bond, others have been making pretty ambitious requests of the devs post u13.

    To answer your question with your words, and my previous comments, I would say no, toxic carapace is not balanced WHEN COMPARED TO ANY OTHER REFLECT (not shouting im just emphasizing). Doesn't mean that I think it is a nuking kill button for the spider though. Play your spider for a couple of days against experienced and non experienced freeps. Try your hardest to pop TC when it would do the most damage. Yes sometimes it results in a kill but many times it doesn't. A multitude of classes on freep and creep side have now or previously had a significant skill that can make their opponent frustrated. Some players abuse this without remorse others use it selectively, if at all. Your burg (Aim>CDG) and cappie have had their time of fortune, did you stop playing those toons? That would be the respectable thing to do if you are looking for a "balanced" pvp environment. If a challenge is what draws your thrill then I would suggest rolling a new class freep or creep, leading a group of rank 0-4 players a couple times a week, run solo on your toon every other night. Or not.

    Ive been playing every day since u13. I have not seen any god mode defilers or spiders when compared to opposing freep classes. That's not to say I haven't seen defilers make a big change from a week ago. They are now significantly contributing as a healer to a group. Which is what the class was meant to do. They can also survive longer running solo. Spiders are certainly better as well. Does TC make the class unplayable?

    Every time someone throws up their arms and says "I can't play that class anymore its OP and I will have nothing to do with it." sort of seems a bit extreme to me. It is a role playing game. Have fun. Play the game. This isn't world politics we are talking about.

  5. #130
    I was probably one of the only players who thought they were fine the way they were. I think maybe a induction help or a way to counter induction debuffs but thats about it. What they did is worse than the mini if you ask me.

    I am disgusted with a bunch of people, who were total noobs on them, who are now running around... gawking and bragging like they know anything about playing them. But i guess if you qq enough turbine will lend you 20 hands....

    I never play it anymore since there is no need to. Its to easy. Boring. Pathetic. Stupid....

    I hope a downscale happens but i doubt it. All the kids got a taste of this power and will not want to let it go.

    OMGWAD I CEEN HEAL TRUUUU A RAID AWN MUY DEFIRUR!!!! YAY.... just stupid.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakreal View Post
    if you qq enough turbine will lend you 20 hands....
    Turbine has a habit of overdoing their "help". We ask for a slight nerf, we get a mega nerf. We ask for a slight boost, we get a mega boost.

  7. #132
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakreal View Post
    OMGWAD I CEEN HEAL TRUUUU A RAID AWN MUY DEFIRUR!!!! YAY.... just stupid.
    I love all the MOOROONS in the forums at the moment.

    A mini could run from lug to gv with creeps harassing, and never run out of power, now that a defiler can survive a lot longer than before, its an outcry? the defiler runs out of power fast, if you cant kill one with a couple of freeps..LTP

    MORE MOOROONS PLZ

    MOOROON TEARS!!!

    MOOROONS!!!

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voter View Post
    Actually I dont think I have used the word "balanced" ever in a thread unless I was quoting someone. To "balance" all classes in a pvp environment is unrealistic. I dont want the devs spending a ridiculous number of man hours working on the moors (creating trait lines, skill points, etc). They need to create new pve content to maintain and draw subscribers. Without the money we don't have lotro. The moors is not drawing in new subscribing players to lotro, pve is. To ask the devs to restructure the moors is really pretty short sited. That point is stretching beyond your comment Bond, others have been making pretty ambitious requests of the devs post u13.

    To answer your question with your words, and my previous comments, I would say no, toxic carapace is not balanced WHEN COMPARED TO ANY OTHER REFLECT (not shouting im just emphasizing). Doesn't mean that I think it is a nuking kill button for the spider though. Play your spider for a couple of days against experienced and non experienced freeps. Try your hardest to pop TC when it would do the most damage. Yes sometimes it results in a kill but many times it doesn't. A multitude of classes on freep and creep side have now or previously had a significant skill that can make their opponent frustrated. Some players abuse this without remorse others use it selectively, if at all. Your burg (Aim>CDG) and cappie have had their time of fortune, did you stop playing those toons? That would be the respectable thing to do if you are looking for a "balanced" pvp environment. If a challenge is what draws your thrill then I would suggest rolling a new class freep or creep, leading a group of rank 0-4 players a couple times a week, run solo on your toon every other night. Or not.

    Ive been playing every day since u13. I have not seen any god mode defilers or spiders when compared to opposing freep classes. That's not to say I haven't seen defilers make a big change from a week ago. They are now significantly contributing as a healer to a group. Which is what the class was meant to do. They can also survive longer running solo. Spiders are certainly better as well. Does TC make the class unplayable?

    Every time someone throws up their arms and says "I can't play that class anymore its OP and I will have nothing to do with it." sort of seems a bit extreme to me. It is a role playing game. Have fun. Play the game. This isn't world politics we are talking about.
    A few things here

    A. I wasn't requesting anything its just an idea for complete balance in the moors. am I holding devs at gun point saying "do this" no I'm not

    B. I will have to agree to disagree with you with the massive influx in creeps low ranks having their skills they seem to be making Bank of the Moors.

    C. for now PvE content needs to kick it up a notch. but they are advertising the moors with scaled freeps to try to get more subs

    D. I cant speak for anyone else, I have one toon one class I played since MoM before that I played a cappy in SoA. but cappys were so OP I came out in the moors at 75 in a fellowship and did extremely well for undergeared and low audacity after that I dint play her again.

    E. Key word "Healer" so explain to me how a defiler can heal/out dps and burn 3 freeps. Sure they can heal and are extremely better off now but they can also dps extremely well and that's any defiler not just high ranks.

    F. Smaller servers are GV camps nonstop and a number of defilers the "Good Creep players have basically gone freep with the drastic change thank the LOTRO gods for that at least.

    Solo on some servers is basically gone all these creeps who don't have a clue how to play bragging about killing the best on the server when they couldn't even touch them Before U13. Yet even with where creeps are at now they still call out 1 freep and bring 3 or more even though now it takes 1-2 low grade players to kill a decent freep.

    and if you dint notice voter the reflect period is broken in this game since ppl wanna keep talking about Mini healing PvE which is nothing to do with PvP. take a tanking class that most of its damage comes from bleeding on a mob that reflects +50% incoming damage when being hit and have a bleed on it once.

    Matúrz-olog scored a critical hit with a massive melee attack on Giledor for 405,991 Shadow damage to Morale. - it was a wth moment but extremely funny with how this mechanic works, therefore it wouldnt just be a PvP change but a PvE one as well.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by jadacakai View Post
    I love all the MOOROONS in the forums at the moment.

    A mini could run from lug to gv with creeps harassing, and never run out of power, now that a defiler can survive a lot longer than before, its an outcry? the defiler runs out of power fast, if you cant kill one with a couple of freeps..LTP

    MORE MOOROONS PLZ

    MOOROON TEARS!!!

    MOOROONS!!!
    Meh again im the defiler complaining about what happened.

    Well i have a mini too funny that.

    "A mini could run from lug to gv with creeps harassing, and never run out of power" right ... youll just run outta health first but man at least we have our power.

    Against really bad creeps yes ... against just 2 reavers synching impale not so much....

    "if you cant kill one with a couple of freeps..LTP"

    Note: im the defiler complaining... this is from creep perspective. like you should you know... READ first maybe?

    against a couple ... ok i can see that ... if the defiler didn't heal... didnt have rank... didnt have unlocked hots... didnt have aud... didnt have a clue how to use a keyboard... Yea i can see it totally. A COUPLE can farm one all day WHAT WAS I THINKING!?!?!

    "MORE MOOROONS PLZ

    MOOROON TEARS!!!

    MOOROONS!!!"

    This is the kind of people playing defilers now .... gg ... and please dont harass on the forums k ty

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by jadacakai View Post
    I love all the MOOROONS in the forums at the moment.

    A mini could run from lug to gv with creeps harassing, and never run out of power, now that a defiler can survive a lot longer than before, its an outcry? the defiler runs out of power fast, if you cant kill one with a couple of freeps..LTP

    MORE MOOROONS PLZ

    MOOROON TEARS!!!

    MOOROONS!!!
    As if one reaver or two wargs couldn't kill a mini pre-u13 just fine.

    The badness is mind boggling. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say all the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13 are crawling out from the woodwork and shouting triumphantly.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    As if one reaver or two wargs couldn't kill a mini pre-u13 just fine.

    The badness is mind boggling. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say all the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13 are crawling out from the woodwork and shouting triumphantly.
    Happening on my server too, With some buddies (solo players most of the time), we were playing an optimal creep group (2 defi, 1wvr, 1 WL, 2 rvr) pre update when needed too (aka gram camp) and managed to take bad fraid stacking minis. Just had to synch blight, improved mes and rvrs burst to take down a 27k mini in less than 3s.

    Now, all the braindead creeps who were'nt even thinking about coordinating something pre-update are happy cause they got kills and then think its balanced, sad world.

    Ah, and yeah, my main is a defiler, i just wanted a fell restoration rework, now i cant even play my class anymore, thanks turbine !

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    As if one reaver or two wargs couldn't kill a mini pre-u13 just fine.

    The badness is mind boggling. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say all the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13 are crawling out from the woodwork and shouting triumphantly.
    Minstrel that cant outheal 1200 dps reaver had on them, pre U13, should momentaly erase his char.
    There was and there is like 29 minstrels online all the time on every server, that class was same as defilers are now, for years, but you dont see ppl leaving that class.

    1 - Most ppl played creep cause the creep classes are bit easier to master and when they loose, they can say "We are the UP side, its not cause im bad player". Well im glad that will not be the case anymore.

    2 - As for freep side - you might not have the dps atm to get through defilers heals, (which i think that will change soon), but you have heals that are as strong as ever. New gear? New jewellry? Change your virtues, stack some mits and CD and youll be fine.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    As if one reaver or two wargs couldn't kill a mini pre-u13 just fine.

    The badness is mind boggling. This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say all the creeps who couldn't cut it pre-u13 are crawling out from the woodwork and shouting triumphantly.
    Ever consider that all the "creeps" who couldn't cut it pre-u13 might be freepside deserters?

  14. #139
    My minstrel in Blue line with balads, piercing cry and call of the 2nd age attacks only, has more dps 1.2k than my R14 defiler 1k against L armour dummies. And ofc its healing is still more.

    Defis havnt had a dps increase higher than any other class, its just had 1s reduction in inductions, so those gourd attacks when traited have no induction - but then they're on CD. When and if freeps sort their tactical miti (guords are tactical) they will fare better.

    I think some freeps would prefer they became non healer again who didnt have the dps to to kill some AFK freep

    Also might add, all freep classses can and always did just run away from defiler when they realise they gonna lose (traited defiler slow - which is rare, is still only 20%)

    Personally, i couldnt care if they nerfed Def dps somewhat, but they shouldnt nerf the heals unless they generally nerf freep heals also

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    My minstrel in Blue line with balads, piercing cry and call of the 2nd age attacks only, has more dps 1.2k than my R14 defiler 1k against L armour dummies. And ofc its healing is still more.

    Defis havnt had a dps increase higher than any other class, its just had 1s reduction in inductions, so those gourd attacks when traited have no induction - but then they're on CD. When and if freeps sort their tactical miti (guords are tactical) they will fare better.

    I think some freeps would prefer they became non healer again who didnt have the dps to to kill some AFK freep

    Also might add, all freep classses can and always did just run away from defiler when they realise they gonna lose (traited defiler slow - which is rare, is still only 20%)

    Personally, i couldnt care if they nerfed Def dps somewhat, but they shouldnt nerf the heals unless they generally nerf freep heals also
    First of all, you don't do 1k2 dps with healing min on a right traited creep with audacity.
    Second thing, Creeps have 3x more morale, you obviously need more dps as a freep than a creep, i mean, people, time to use brain cells... please..

  16. #141
    Use brain cells ???

    Both parses were against dummies as stated ...

    So ill spell out for other dummies reading, defiler wouldnt do that dps against freep also

  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    Use brain cells ???

    Both parses were against dummies as stated ...

    So ill spell out for other dummies reading, defiler wouldnt do that dps against freep also
    Man, do you even read what you wrote and what i wrote ? Take your time, i know it can be hard but you can do it. The part with "3xMorale" is pretty important.

    Oh, and FYI, you can reach 1k8 dps with defiler on Ldummies and they reset dots. (i'm already parsing it, for non-believers that WILL come EDIT: Here we go couldnt reach 1k8 tho, but this is pretty close considering that dummies get dot cleaned. Maybe went a little overboard with numbers, my bad)
    Last edited by Gray; Apr 20 2014 at 02:19 PM.

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Happening on my server too, With some buddies (solo players most of the time), we were playing an optimal creep group (2 defi, 1wvr, 1 WL, 2 rvr) pre update when needed too (aka gram camp) and managed to take bad fraid stacking minis. Just had to synch blight, improved mes and rvrs burst to take down a 27k mini in less than 3s.

    Now, all the braindead creeps who were'nt even thinking about coordinating something pre-update are happy cause they got kills and then think its balanced, sad world.

    Ah, and yeah, my main is a defiler, i just wanted a fell restoration rework, now i cant even play my class anymore, thanks turbine !
    so just sync blight and ya 2 rvrs kill 27k mini in < 3s = rvrs more than 4k dps each while mincer stands and does nothing

    thats just lol and to try to make out that this meant there was some balance pre u13 with co ordinated attacks is even more lol

    this on top of u quoting mincers HPS cant be 25k before u imed shown they can

    u sound like many of the freeps QQ that they cant faceroll creeps anymore and its just wrong that creeps got a good heal class now

    healing and dpsing is ofc wrong, so i expect u been QQ for nerfs to Minstrels, Wdns , caps, guards etc for last 3 years ?? AMG forgot LMs!!

    not gonna derail thread with flame war so dont expect an answer to ya child like "wow, your wrong, im so clever and u must be stupid" insults
    Last edited by Fannee; Apr 20 2014 at 02:35 PM.

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    so just sync blight and ya 2 rvrs kill 27k mini in < 3s = rvrs more than 4k dps each while mincer stands and does nothing
    That's pretty much it, yeah. And we don't even focus minis cause of SaD, coordinating blight, improved mes and two impale burst on non-stunimmunity targets.

    Lets say we're unlucky on crits, it make two impales at 7k~, two blade toss at 2k~ and two devast at 3k~ so a total of 24kdps~ on the target in worst case scenarii.

  20. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Man, do you even read what you wrote and what i wrote ? Take your time, i know it can be hard but you can do it. The part with "3xMorale" is pretty important.

    Oh, and FYI, you can reach 1k8 dps with defiler on Ldummies and they reset dots. (i'm already parsing it, for non-believers that WILL come EDIT: Here we go couldnt reach 1k8 tho, but this is pretty close considering that dummies get dot cleaned. Maybe went a little overboard with numbers, my bad)
    U think u can get 1.8k dps AHAHAHAHAH

    U do understand that dps should be somewhat sustained???? need me to explain why???

    U cant get 1.8k dps sustainded with normal traits 2 OPs against single target with r14 defiler , let alone your new made r8 - which suggest all along ya a freep arent u

  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    That's pretty much it, yeah. And we don't even focus minis cause of SaD, coordinating blight, improved mes and two impale burst on non-stunimmunity targets.

    Lets say we're unlucky on crits, it make two impales at 7k~, two blade toss at 2k~ and two devast at 3k~ so a total of 24kdps~ on the target in worst case scenarii.
    u cant even get the dots on for impale in the <3 s u mentioned - so many clowns just say, impale/DS boom dead freep lool

    RVRs do not have 4k dps - roll one and try it - u can do it...

  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    U think u can get 1.8k dps AHAHAHAHAH

    U do understand that dps should be somewhat sustained???? need me to explain why???

    U cant get 1.8k dps sustainded with normal traits 2 OPs against single target with r14 defiler , let alone your new made r8 - which suggest all along ya a freep arent u
    First thing, on this serv i got r8defi, r9 rvr, r12 warg, r8 WL and r9 BA.
    Second thing, i got creeps on other server.

    And then. Man seriously.. LEARN TO READ.. i was talking about parsing on a dummy, plus sustained dps is subpar in PvP environment where burst is needed with the actual pace of the game, and 50s is clearly sustained dps when we talk about PvP.

    That being said, defiler dps is meh, better than blue mini dps, but still meh, and it have to be like this, especially now.

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    u cant even get the dots on for impale in the <3 s u mentioned - so many clowns just say, impale/DS boom dead freep lool

    RVRs do not have 4k dps - roll one and try it - u can do it...
    Oh my god.. Are you real ? Do you think that you have to burst right after switching target ?

    Let me explain you something, Good burst assist with a croup work like this. You put dots, debuffs and everything, you wait everyone to be ready and BOOM you burst, trying to oneshot your target with good coordination. Any question ?

  23. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    First thing, on this serv i got r8defi, r9 rvr, r12 warg, r8 WL and r9 BA.
    Second thing, i got creeps on other server.

    And then. Man seriously.. LEARN TO READ.. i was talking about parsing on a dummy, plus sustained dps is subpar in PvP environment where burst is needed with the actual pace of the game, and 50s is clearly sustained dps when we talk about PvP.

    That being said, defiler dps is meh, better than blue mini dps, but still meh, and it have to be like this, especially now.

    Edit:



    Oh my god.. Are you real ? Do you think that you have to burst right after switching target ?

    Let me explain you something, Good burst assist with a croup work like this. You put dots, debuffs and everything, you wait everyone to be ready and BOOM you burst, trying to oneshot your target with good coordination. Any question ?

    soooooo, your 2 rvrs killing a 27k mincer in < 3s is actually, wellllll, we been attacking, dotting and debuffing for a while, then we start the clock for the impale/DS etc and boom , look dead mincer in 3 s , WOW , who would have thought creepside was OP pre u13 all along GG

    u need to think before u post, really , PLEASE

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Fannee View Post
    soooooo, your 2 rvrs killing a 27k mincer in < 3s is actually, wellllll, we been attacking, dotting and debuffing for a while, then we start the clock for the impale/DS etc and boom , look dead mincer in 3 s , WOW , who would have thought creepside was OP pre u13 all along GG

    u need to think before u post, really , PLEASE
    I don't get it.. A mini dropping 100% to 0% in 3s isn't a mini dead in a period of three seconds ??? Even if you spend a million years preparing that burst down (which honnestly take us 8 to 10s in combat situations) ????

  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I don't get it.. A mini dropping 100% to 0% in 3s isn't a mini dead in a period of three seconds ??? Even if you spend a million years preparing that burst down (which honnestly take us 8 to 10s in combat situations) ????

    your logic .... ./sigh

    cba teach u anymore

 

 
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