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Thread: Defilers = OP

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxination View Post
    QQ about defilers being OP. How disillusion are you? Clearly you haven't pvp'd before ever.
    Funny, no one will 1v1 defilers on Brandy cause "they heal themselves".
    Clearly no one else seems to share your view that defilers aren't OP atm.
    I wish more freeps were like you, Sax.
    [highlight][color=black][size=2][B](•_•) Out numbered? Out gunned?
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exion_Blade View Post
    Funny, no one will 1v1 defilers on Brandy cause "they heal themselves".
    Clearly no one else seems to share your view that defilers aren't OP atm.
    I wish more freeps were like you, Sax.
    its hard to decide whats op and whats not I mean a creep that can click a skill on a 1minute cd and reflect all the damage it is taking (bleeds included) yet its own bleeds = a freeps bleeds and kill the freep with 1 button no that's not OP at all
    [URL=http://s88.photobucket.com/user/csmoltz/media/sig-lotro2_zpsc635dbd5.jpg.html][IMG]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k183/csmoltz/sig-lotro2_zpsc635dbd5.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

  3. #103
    As a player of the defiler class for 5 years i'll give my two-pennies-worth about its current state.
    I agree it is OP right now, and I think the HoTs should be toned down a bit.
    I hate to see my favourite creep class being FoTM, with lots of people switching to the class for that reason.
    If they do nerf the heals I hope they don't make a knee-jerk reaction and nerf the class back to where it was.
    I hope they leave the inductions alone because a lot of the pain that comes with playing the defiler class is from the slowness of the skills, especially when you factor in addle and lag.

    Something else i'd like to say to all the freep players who are complaining about the OP'ness of the new defi: despite what I've said above, there is a small part of me that thinks 'well
    now you know what it feels like!' For a long time now the class has been way under par. Especially since HD the defi has had zero chance of winning a 1v1 fight against pretty much all freep classes.
    Just think what that feels like when you are roaming the map alone, maybe doing some quests and you come across, say, a lone burg or mini or guard, and you know as the fight starts that you
    have absolutely no chance of winning, and worse, you will be totally facerolled with consummate ease, depending on which class you are facing.

    I hope Turbine make an intelligent strike for balance if/when they re-think the class (meaning nerf it).
    I don't want my class to be OP, nor do I want it to be the pathetic class it was before U13.
    I want the shorter inductions to stay, I want heals that are on par with freep healing classes, and finally I want to have a fair chance of winning a fight, should I come across a solo freep.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    Really? One gif in response to an OTT comment (which a few other posters also noted as being OTT) and a tongue-in-cheek comment made in reply to a "stop your QQ" thread = freeps need to learn to play their class? Heh.

    My contributions to threads are judged by the moderators, not you.
    Your contribution to threads will be judged by readers and commented on by readers, that is the reason for a forum, mods only get involved when CG's are broken. Don't you understand the purpose of a thread in a forum? When others were trying to have a sensible debate about class and pvmp mechanics your whole response to sum it up was solely that all 'freeps were noobs and had to learn to play their class.' Seems like I ruffled your feathers for calling you out on such a ridiculous OTT response that contributed nothing worthwhile to an otherwise sensible debate being had by other players about pvmp mechanics.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Disperate View Post
    Something else i'd like to say to all the freep players who are complaining about the OP'ness of the new defi: despite what I've said above, there is a small part of me that thinks 'well
    now you know what it feels like!'
    I agree with you, I think defi deserved a close look at and I'm pleased they got a revamp. My main is reaver and that has been in a good place for a while. I think what gets me about this pvmp update along with every other is that it is usually one extreme pendulum swing to the other. With a few tweaks here and there, some more some lesser, the devs could have given us more of a balanced pvp environment. I know balance is always hard to get right ofc, but on my server we have gone from being camped almost 24/7 at grams b4 the update, to now camping at GV 24/7 after and I find that so boring, I roam the map but its empty elsewhere apart from odd freep here and there. I don't think 1st agers will make too much of a difference. Freeps will need to group up more and will need every OP class in groups to fight back, and there is hope maybe. As for the level 20 scale, they seem to be in a worse state than a rnk0 reaver. Now some spars between low ranked creeps and well played scaled freeps would be interesting to see how balance at that level is.

  6. #106
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamlong View Post
    Your contribution to threads will be judged by readers and commented on by readers, that is the reason for a forum, mods only get involved when CG's are broken. Don't you understand the purpose of a thread in a forum? When others were trying to have a sensible debate about class and pvmp mechanics your whole response to sum it up was solely that all 'freeps were noobs and had to learn to play their class.' Seems like I ruffled your feathers for calling you out on such a ridiculous OTT response that contributed nothing worthwhile to an otherwise sensible debate being had by other players about pvmp mechanics.
    OK, obviously you're not reading my posts. Try to understand what a tongue-in-cheek sense of humour is and stop being so offended by it. There are much, much worse and more cynical replies to threads than mine, but for some reason you chose to harass me. Flattered.

    Anyway, since you lack the understanding to be able to follow my posts I am quite done here. Will be reporting you for harassment.
    Last edited by nubcat; Apr 17 2014 at 08:53 AM.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    OK, obviously you're not reading my posts. Try to understand what a tongue-in-cheek sense of humour is and stop being so offended by it. There are much, much worse and more cynical replies to threads than mine, but for some reason you chose to harass me. Flattered.

    Anyway, since you lack the understanding to be able to follow my posts I am quite done here. Will be reporting you for harassment.
    It seems nobody is offended here but you. If you want to actually say something constructive about the update rather than the 'all freeps are noob and should learn to play their class' remark you made go ahead, but if you think my answering you on that remark is harassment, it seems you lack understanding of the purpose of a forum and the ability to join in a constructive debate about the issue being discussed on this thread and the other. That is why I called you out on the remark hoping you would actually elaborate, but you didn't. If you made that remark just to provoke, well, read the community guidelines. Anyway, glad you are going to allow the thread to move on and you are done here as you have contributed nothing constructively to it so far.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Disperate View Post
    As a player of the defiler class for 5 years i'll give my two-pennies-worth about its current state.
    I agree it is OP right now, and I think the HoTs should be toned down a bit.
    I hate to see my favourite creep class being FoTM, with lots of people switching to the class for that reason.
    If they do nerf the heals I hope they don't make a knee-jerk reaction and nerf the class back to where it was.
    I hope they leave the inductions alone because a lot of the pain that comes with playing the defiler class is from the slowness of the skills, especially when you factor in addle and lag.

    Something else i'd like to say to all the freep players who are complaining about the OP'ness of the new defi: despite what I've said above, there is a small part of me that thinks 'well
    now you know what it feels like!' For a long time now the class has been way under par. Especially since HD the defi has had zero chance of winning a 1v1 fight against pretty much all freep classes.
    Just think what that feels like when you are roaming the map alone, maybe doing some quests and you come across, say, a lone burg or mini or guard, and you know as the fight starts that you
    have absolutely no chance of winning, and worse, you will be totally facerolled with consummate ease, depending on which class you are facing.

    I hope Turbine make an intelligent strike for balance if/when they re-think the class (meaning nerf it).
    I don't want my class to be OP, nor do I want it to be the pathetic class it was before U13.
    I want the shorter inductions to stay, I want heals that are on par with freep healing classes, and finally I want to have a fair chance of winning a fight, should I come across a solo freep.
    Plus lotsa rep if it could still be given!
    /bow

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  9. #109
    I play on villya and yesterday 2 hunters a champ and a HEALING mini and THE WHOLE EC CAMP could not beat one Wl and one defiler

    Something is wrong here, no matter what rank they are they shouldn't died

    I love the moors, but my whole kin is gone and I guess I am too

    When you need 2 raids to hold back the creeps in any situation it's not right

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by RyansAcc View Post
    I play on villya and yesterday 2 hunters a champ and a HEALING mini and THE WHOLE EC CAMP could not beat one Wl and one defiler

    Something is wrong here, no matter what rank they are they shouldn't died

    I love the moors, but my whole kin is gone and I guess I am too

    When you need 2 raids to hold back the creeps in any situation it's not right
    Were you complaining when yellow cappies and guards were doing the same thing? And why is it when creeps were dealing with this they kept playing but now that freeps are they're all quitting?
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Were you complaining when yellow cappies and guards were doing the same thing? And why is it when creeps were dealing with this they kept playing but now that freeps are they're all quitting?
    False argument - previous states of the game and who was OP in the past has nothing to do with the current situation.

    Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
    Not all those who wander are lost.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Shumzuda View Post
    False argument - previous states of the game and who was OP in the past has nothing to do with the current situation.
    Actually it does. Creeps found ways to deal with the situation and succeed. Most didn't stop playing. Freeps need to look at that and figure out how to perform better.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  13. #113
    Ungrouped freeps killing a defiler who got left behind is still easier than U13 creeps killing a solo U13 yellow captain.

    I've come to the conclusion that balance isn't Turbine's goal, the massive swings in either direction provides hours of entertainment in the break room.

    Still, it was nice toi play my freep last night, I never like long runs back from the rez so a GV camp is fine for now.

  14. #114
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyansAcc View Post
    I play on villya and yesterday 2 hunters a champ and a HEALING mini and THE WHOLE EC CAMP could not beat one Wl and one defiler

    Something is wrong here, no matter what rank they are they shouldn't died

    I love the moors, but my whole kin is gone and I guess I am too

    When you need 2 raids to hold back the creeps in any situation it's not right
    Same could really be said when you needed one raid to bring down a Warden and a Mini.

    Not trying to start the "who's the real victim here", but a lot of you sure as heck weren't crying then.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Disperate View Post
    As a player of the defiler class for 5 years i'll give my two-pennies-worth about its current state.
    I agree it is OP right now, and I think the HoTs should be toned down a bit.
    I hate to see my favourite creep class being FoTM, with lots of people switching to the class for that reason.
    If they do nerf the heals I hope they don't make a knee-jerk reaction and nerf the class back to where it was.
    I hope they leave the inductions alone because a lot of the pain that comes with playing the defiler class is from the slowness of the skills, especially when you factor in addle and lag.

    Something else i'd like to say to all the freep players who are complaining about the OP'ness of the new defi: despite what I've said above, there is a small part of me that thinks 'well
    now you know what it feels like!' For a long time now the class has been way under par. Especially since HD the defi has had zero chance of winning a 1v1 fight against pretty much all freep classes.
    Just think what that feels like when you are roaming the map alone, maybe doing some quests and you come across, say, a lone burg or mini or guard, and you know as the fight starts that you
    have absolutely no chance of winning, and worse, you will be totally facerolled with consummate ease, depending on which class you are facing.

    I hope Turbine make an intelligent strike for balance if/when they re-think the class (meaning nerf it).
    I don't want my class to be OP, nor do I want it to be the pathetic class it was before U13.
    I want the shorter inductions to stay, I want heals that are on par with freep healing classes, and finally I want to have a fair chance of winning a fight, should I come across a solo freep.
    Excellent post. However, when compared to the mini, each side is now balanced. End of discussion, stop whining ppl.
    [img]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n236/quibster/akbalak_zps628d4080.jpg[/img]
    Signed,
    DennisWeaver

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordem_the_RK View Post
    Excellent post. However, when compared to the mini, each side is now balanced. End of discussion, stop whining ppl.
    LOL its far from Balanced. you want balance heres what turbine should do.

    take each creep Class,

    Revamp it into 3 trait lines and points u earn through questing.

    each Class gets a Survival,healing,debuff/cc, and a damage line. to choose from/intermix.

    red line minis, damage rks,red line cappys cant heal raids but for some reason creeps for get this.

    Blue line wardens/yellow cappies cant do #### for damage unless the creep just wants to stick around and die

    The thing is that all the creeps right now have all 3 of their own trait lines into a powerhouse because creeps don't have trait lines to choose from they can get the best of all 3 worlds.
    [URL=http://s88.photobucket.com/user/csmoltz/media/sig-lotro2_zpsc635dbd5.jpg.html][IMG]http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k183/csmoltz/sig-lotro2_zpsc635dbd5.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

  17. #117
    Just a thought, why not add -40% - 50% outgoing healing mod (similar to WL's brawler's stance) to defilers fast lob trait, or +1 sec to all healing inductions (or both), so they can't dps and heal like minis at the same time, nerfing defiler healing output in general is a no go imo, not if minis can dish out 25k hps group wide (and they can, check minstrels forum for details). Nerf both sides healing or none.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by came11 View Post
    Just a thought, why not add -40% - 50% outgoing healing mod (similar to WL's brawler's stance) to defilers fast lob trait, or +1 sec to all healing inductions (or both), so they can't dps and heal like minis at the same time, nerfing defiler healing output in general is a no go imo, not if minis can dish out 25k hps group wide (and they can, check minstrels forum for details). Nerf both sides healing or none.
    im pretty sure minis cant maintain 25khps for long on a group, in the other hand i can surely maintain 15khps with my defiler group wide.

  19. #119

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    As I mentioned, my 28k HPS was in the last battle of 21st Hall lvl 95 T3 skirm. Others at 20k HPS and higher have been in other fights in skirm raids or regular T2c raids. Many of my parses where I average 20k HPS+ are in fights where I do a total of 1 million plus in total heals over the course of the fight. I actually get higher numbers in longer fights btw. It's not one cast - it's an average over several minutes at a time with the parse running continually. I can try and take a screenshot of my CombatAnalysis summary next time if I remember, but what I'm stating isn't a 10 second fight with one or two ticks. Consider it silly if you wish - or try it yourself at 95 in a skirm with 6 others while in a fight lasting several minutes and running CombatAnalysis. Up to you.
    From mincers forum and even if this is only possible in PvE environment i say 20k hps is still more then defiler can throw out on a group.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by came11 View Post
    From mincers forum and even if this is only possible in PvE environment i say 20k hps is still more then defiler can throw out on a group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post



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    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  21. #121
    These numbers are pretty awesome indeed.

    Can a mini do a single target healing parse ? im really interested to know how high it can be. PvP environment if possible.

  22. #122
    Join Date
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    While I'm pissed that my favorite toon is now the FOTM, anyone that has ever played a defiler (or killed one) can understand why. Defilers can heal and dps like never before. Before the update, defeating an opponent before a fraid or craid came running by never happened. Now I can take down a guard, RK, or Warden with ease, or a mini or LM if I'm lucky with timing. This shouldn't happen. While I don't want to be nerfed back to useless, which was what the defiler was pre-update, something needs to be done. My vote is for keeping most of the potency of my heals, but scale back the dps. With lowered dps, I can still do my job of heals & debuffing, and maybe, just maybe, freeps would stop yelling for a full nerf.
    Daffodyl / DrDoolittle

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    These numbers are pretty awesome indeed.

    Can a mini do a single target healing parse ? im really interested to know how high it can be. PvP environment if possible.
    That guy on picture even healed in both parses with dps weapon and item, so its even more.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
    Brekka Crixus of Eldar, Potomci Numenora, Evernight (Ex Lazareva vojska)

    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Cryptic View Post
    its hard to decide whats op and whats not I mean a creep that can click a skill on a 1minute cd and reflect all the damage it is taking (bleeds included) yet its own bleeds = a freeps bleeds and kill the freep with 1 button no that's not OP at all
    This point you make... /sigh. If a freep applies bleeds onto a creep it is fair and respectable, however those very same bleeds (now filtered thru mitigation) placed back onto the freep is as op as a nuke? Keep in mind it is once per minute. How many hp can be applied to that freep in that period (by the individual himself)? How about the spider, how many hp can it apply while sustaining these bleeds?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000001a1387/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Shumzuda View Post
    False argument - previous states of the game and who was OP in the past has nothing to do with the current situation.
    It is relevant if addressing the feelings of one or both parties in the past and how it relates to the present situation.

    Ive read a lot of your posts Shum. Are you sure you arent a freep that put a BA as your avatar? Your perspective is consistently abrupt and absolute with no examples or evidence to support your opinion. Im not saying you or anyone has to always provide evidence when giving an opinion but every once in a while you should have something that contributes to support your claim. Otherwise it sounds like a politician during election season.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000001a1387/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 
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