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Thread: Defilers = OP

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    And what exactly justifies the Hunter's incapability of 1v1'ing? Nothing does.
    Not all classes are meant to 1v1 effectively.

    And tbh, if a hunter uses all of their CDs in a 1v1, they have a fair chance against most, with the notable exception of reavers. And even against reavers, you could play a kite-fest and just noobstomp them using cheap fight tactics (tactics that can and will work).

    There's two things that prevent hunters from winning 1v1s consistently:

    1) Long CDs being (rightfully) frowned upon in 1v1s, because most will believe that means you're dependent on those long CDs to win.

    2) Kite tactics being (again, rightfully) frowned upon in 1v1s, because you're not "playing fair"

    Hunters who throw either, or both, these rules out the window in an unofficial 1v1 have a decent chance of winning. I wouldn't say 50/50 vs a good creep, but you still have a chance. Better that than none.
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  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelon View Post
    creeps are now way more op than freeps ever were
    I don't think they are more op than Freeps ever were but Creeps are quite OP after HD release.
    Reavers Impale + Dev can take most of your morale easily if not just end you.
    2 Wargs can take any healing mini (Silence + Daze) would do the job, and one Glasscanon Warg can pretty much farm any rk/hunter.
    Defilers now can almost solo 3 Freeps.. (5 if they had no audacity)

    Now.. Name 1 Creep that can get farmed easily (rank 7 and above).
    Slaytallica

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I'm simply saying that the average and even above average group won't have such coordination.
    I think the amount of coordination you see depends a lot on who the raid leader is. Good raid leaders, on either side, will often give specific assignments to specific raid members. They'll also frequently request specific builds of certain raid members. And, you can be darn sure they'll be coordinating the usage of CC, debuffs and spike damage skills.

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  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by tamlong View Post
    Do you really not actually have anything to contribute to the conversation apart from trying to score cheap points with a low grade gif?
    I thought that was pretty funny. lol
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarefx View Post
    Wow you guys are crazy.

    Stop this QQ freeps, L2P. PvP now is more balanced than before, even thought freeps still OP like crazy. Creeps finally got buffs they deserve. It took me less than couple hours to get my new defiler to r3(started with 10k comms) on my account and beat most freeps in a spars. This what I call balance. I mean minis used to face roll every class before. Now Its defilers time to show their capabilities on being most awesome class. If you dont like playing freeps, go roll a creep and play balanced side for the first time in forever. I refuse to play my cappy in the moors cause its too OP now with all the mitigation and damage I have. Gonna play new balanced defiler, cya on the balanced side =D
    so youre saying a r3 defiler should be able to beat a decent r13 freep? yes

    freep and creep damage is near the same now on some of the classes, however now that damage is equal why are freeps morale still 2x+ lower then creeps?
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  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Fralin View Post
    The impact of flippers would be easily countered with a lockout timer that is several hours long something along the lines of 4-5 hours would seem reasonable
    Excellent idea.
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  7. #82
    I have played defiler since ROR on Landroval. I was pleased that there was going to be some development on my heals and inductions as my creep buddies told me I was redundant and should be a WL. Also my burg buddies would stun me and even with my full aud, high crit def and R9 I could be taken in less than 5 seconds. With zero attack capability I could only watch as a mini blasts me down. Despite this I still loved being a defiler.

    However the idea of craid packed with new high healing defilers excites me as much as a fraid full of cappies, minis and guards or someone who calls in a craid to zerg a solo LM in Groth. This could be really boring. Anyway it's too early to call but I hope I don't see one of those periods where one side bails because when a side bails the fun is over for all.

    Dr Filth
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadronas View Post
    I have played defiler since ROR on Landroval. I was pleased that there was going to be some development on my heals and inductions as my creep buddies told me I was redundant and should be a WL. Also my burg buddies would stun me and even with my full aud, high crit def and R9 I could be taken in less than 5 seconds. With zero attack capability I could only watch as a mini blasts me down. Despite this I still loved being a defiler.

    However the idea of craid packed with new high healing defilers excites me as much as a fraid full of cappies, minis and guards or someone who calls in a craid to zerg a solo LM in Groth. This could be really boring. Anyway it's too early to call but I hope I don't see one of those periods where one side bails because when a side bails the fun is over for all.

    Dr Filth
    One Word Meneldor and flippers are by far terrible, yet so is the QQ and freeps not going into the moors and yada yada yada dumb stuff really. ive seen a defiler crit heal for 16k wl's crit heal for 45k-quitters never win. but even so cappy/guard mit was dropped by 10% capwise so no more 70-80% mits,

    crit defence was broken for creep side preU13 idk if it still is but now it seems broken freepside which is another thing why freeps are getting hit so hard.

    I tested the crit defence bonuses on PvP gear and a 2/2/2-takes the same damage as a 4/2- and that's an additional 3k crit defence 2/2/2 (talking gear set bonuses)
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Cryptic View Post
    freep and creep damage is near the same now on some of the classes, however now that damage is equal why are freeps morale still 2x+ lower then creeps?
    Change your options to display morale in %.

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    Change your options to display morale in %.
    lol turn on the fog machine, delude yourself.

    the reason they didn't adjust the morale is because they believe they were tuning it for current stats and morale.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    lol turn on the fog machine, delude yourself.

    the reason they didn't adjust the morale is because they believe they were tuning it for current stats and morale.
    lol so that's why they did it the Creeps QQn have their morale bar in %! now it all makes sense I can haz bacon and go to sleep yup moors is balanced now!
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  12. #87
    ok lets start to sort through this
    Quote Originally Posted by Xallica View Post
    I don't think they are more op than Freeps ever were but Creeps are quite OP after HD release.
    Reavers Impale + Dev can take most of your morale easily if not just end you.
    2 Wargs can take any healing mini (Silence + Daze) would do the job, and one Glasscanon Warg can pretty much farm any rk/hunter.
    Defilers now can almost solo 3 Freeps.. (5 if they had no audacity)

    Now.. Name 1 Creep that can get farmed easily (rank 7 and above).
    you are right i cant name a creep class that can be farmed easily(of relative skill level to my own) but now switch that around and how many freep classes can you name that get farmed easily? i can name 9(might be a couple that put up a little bit of a fight but the end result is the same).
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    It's stuff like this that just pisses me off. It's so, so, so far from the truth as to be ridiculous. Yes, I think creeps have the advantage now and I'm switching back to my mini and guess what? I love it, it's a challenge for for the first time since before u10. Creeps are not that OP and if freeps would stop bitching and work on virtues, mits and tactics they will be far better off. After u10 I was taking on creep groups of 6 with healers and winning on my mini and wardens could do it even better. I can guarantee a defiler cannot win against 6 freeps with healers.
    you nearly had something there but you lost it soon as you went on about your mini/warden
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    This change just happened. How about figuring out some tactics and changing skill use a bit before coming in here with sweeping generalizations about OPness. For example, minis won't be able to use anthem of war anymore in DPS mode maybe. They'll have to coordinate fears better (you can lock down defilers this way). They'll have to actually watch out for blight and not run through it or stand in it.
    your tactic to counter creeps is to take away minis best anthem in WS and to stack minis?
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Hunters will still do massive damage in the right hands in a group environment, they just aren't going to 1v1 effectively. They've also always been the class where thank god few people seem to play them right because the few who do can absolutely tear up creeps when given distance and heals. If you combine that with mini fears and such, I think you'll still see a vital role for them to play.
    so continue to stack minis as a tactic?
    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    Change your options to display morale in %.
    after all these years, still these % arguments come to play. Lets look at this logically, if a minstrel can heal 10k which is roughly 50% of his/her morale, a defiler should not be able to heal 50% of his/her morale because from the beginning it was designed for creeps to have LESS healing/damage than freeps but more morale and for freeps to have MORE healing/damage than creeps but less morale. I hope this cleared any issues people still have with that design system.

  13. #88
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    Change your options to display morale in %.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelon View Post
    after all these years, still these % arguments come to play. Lets look at this logically, if a minstrel can heal 10k which is roughly 50% of his/her morale, a defiler should not be able to heal 50% of his/her morale because from the beginning it was designed for creeps to have LESS healing/damage than freeps but more morale and for freeps to have MORE healing/damage than creeps but less morale. I hope this cleared any issues people still have with that design system.
    because mitigations and BPE don't come into your "look at this logically", you logic is severely flawed, it is quite a bit more complex than just morale pools.

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelon View Post
    after all these years, still these % arguments come to play. Lets look at this logically, if a minstrel can heal 10k which is roughly 50% of his/her morale, a defiler should not be able to heal 50% of his/her morale because from the beginning it was designed for creeps to have LESS healing/damage than freeps but more morale and for freeps to have MORE healing/damage than creeps but less morale. I hope this cleared any issues people still have with that design system.
    Imagine a system where one side had 1 million morale per character and the other side had 500 morale per character. The side with 1 million morale had 2 dps. the damage of the side with 500 morale had 10 dps. The side with 1 million morale had no heals, the side with 500 morale could heal 2 hps. Who would win? Do you think this is a fair system?

  16. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by nubcat View Post
    Do you really not have nothing to contribute to the forums than quoting me in every thread because i've ruffled your feathers? Get yourself a sense of humour, plx.
    You have not ruffled my feathers at all. It's just the whole sum of your contribution to this and the other discussion about the update was that 'freeps need to learn to play their class.' That's was your contribution and I lol at you.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamlong View Post
    You have not ruffled my feathers at all. It's just the whole sum of your contribution to this and the other discussion about the update was that 'freeps need to learn to play their class.' That's was your contribution and I lol at you.
    Really? One gif in response to an OTT comment (which a few other posters also noted as being OTT) and a tongue-in-cheek comment made in reply to a "stop your QQ" thread = freeps need to learn to play their class? Heh.

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  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaelon View Post
    ok lets start to sort through this
    you nearly had something there but you lost it soon as you went on about your mini/warden
    And? Champions were OP too when I played mine. Lots of people play minis and wardens.

    your tactic to counter creeps is to take away minis best anthem in WS and to stack minis?
    Minis were OP and being able to use anthem of war was a big reason. When I played my mini, power was still an issue and I had to exclusively use anthem of composure and I was still OP. Being able to use anthem of war instead made it worse. Freeps already stacked minis too so not seeing much change. Now those minis will have to use their entire skill bars and not just flop and bolster courage and maybe even coordinate, which will be a big shock to freeps used to just being able to do whatever they want and still get kills. I'm sorry it's come to this ezmoders:-(

    I have tried some grouping in this new moors on my mini and coordination of fears works well. Yes, it takes a while to kill anything on both sides, but we were beating the other side with even numbers when they had a defiler and 2 wls and we had 3 minis so an even numbers of healers there. It doesn't just require minis either. Get your yellow champs, burgs and LMs out there and use them to harass and lock down healers on top of mini fears. Creeps have had to use this level of coordination for a long time to get kills against all the mini stacking so I don't have much sympathy for freep whining about it now.

    Freeps should enjoy the challenge for once in their lives.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Freeps should enjoy the challenge for once in their lives.
    quote of the day.

  20. #95
    QQ about defilers being OP. How disillusion are you? Clearly you haven't pvp'd before ever.
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  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    Title says it all.

    The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

    I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.
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  22. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxination View Post
    QQ about defilers being OP. How disillusion are you? Clearly you haven't pvp'd before ever.
    Obviously you failed to notice that I represent creepside. That's ok, reading can be hard.
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  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxination View Post
    QQ about defilers being OP. How disillusion are you? Clearly you haven't pvp'd before ever.
    Certainly the QQ is flowing quite freely from some posters, but are you suggesting they aren't OP atm? I'm not going to get my panties in a knot because the pendulum for a given class has swung in the opposite direction and its not a class I enjoy or want to play, this is turbine, and a new FotM OP class is nothing to be surprised about (though I certainly do prefer when the balance of power rests with dps classes over healing classes, due to how it makes the overall meta aspect of the game play out). This doesn't change the fact that they are indeed overpowered.

    Sorry if I'm missing some other meaning to your post.
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  24. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post

    Freeps should enjoy the challenge for once in their lives.

    Unlikely...
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    Freeps should enjoy the challenge for once in their lives.
    If freeps liked challenge they wouldn't have been playing freep in the first place.
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