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Thread: Defilers = OP

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  1. #1

    Defilers = OP

    Title says it all.

    The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

    I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.
    Vilya: Healadder (defiler, R10), Kommisar (stalker, R7).
    Snowbourn: Superserial (warleader, R8), Steelstack (reaver, R6).
    Brandywine: Manvet (champion, R10 - Retired); Stargash-1 (reaver, R12)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    Title says it all.

    The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

    I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.
    I couldnt have put this better myself.

  3. #3
    you're probably right, because I know, that you know your class, however consider this, wait a bit for the 1st agers and new freep builds to work itself in, and balance is supposed to be rvr not 1v1.

    again you're probably right, but its all still new atm.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seglord View Post
    you're probably right, because I know, that you know your class, however consider this, wait a bit for the 1st agers and new freep builds to work itself in, and balance is supposed to be rvr not 1v1.

    again you're probably right, but its all still new atm.
    At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps. I agree, it does seem a bit much at the moment.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
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    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL[/COLOR]
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps. I agree, it does seem a bit much at the moment.
    I am shocked at the prospect freeps will have to use their full arsenal of skills now to win, rather than facerolling like they have since RoI.

  6. #6

    Defilers = OP

    As 1 of the few active defilers on vilya (pre u13) i was capable of healing stuff. I logged in today and i found the defiler class broken. Not to mention 10 defilers camping gv.

    Defiler needed some buff (fungal spores heal on expiration change to initial heal would have done miracles). We never asked for insta cast gourd or debuffs (they seem broken because you need to stand still anyways).
    We did ask for a non cooldown on rez.

    Well i hope they nerf defiler like it was before.
    Last edited by ulza; Apr 14 2014 at 08:42 PM.
    Retired from lotro since june '14. Currently kicking other noobs on gw2.

  7. #7
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    When I hear "overpowered defilers" I think back to the 14-18 minnies who come out in raids/groups duo's that have done nothing but destroy Silverlodes RvR..I actually like this change in pace..Maybe it will give freeps something to think about when they stack heals, healing vs healing is the new Raid vs Raid.
    Nope, we did have warleaders but their class role has changed to cheerleader.
    Godhelm of Nimrodel | Winner! Maggotmeat has won the match against Thejuggernaut.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    I am shocked at the prospect freeps will have to use their full arsenal of skills now to win, rather than facerolling like they have since RoI.
    Sadly, all the players who would need to learn how to properly use their full arsenal of skills, are likely to flop over to creep while the weather's good on that side and likely roll a defiler. I've been creep since HD because that side could use the most help on our server. Log in today and all kinds of names I haven't seen in ages, names I've never heard of before, or see players who have been playing freep exclusively since HD out on their creeps.

    Since it was a GV camp (which never happens on Gladden) I decide to dust off my hunter. After I got him sorted out I go down the stairs and see 5+ defilers and about 9 other creeps camping two <95 lvl freeps. I'll wait to hold my judgement on the changes to PVMP this update until I have first ages and a couple of weeks of actions go by.

    Sadly, I feel they missed the mark on this "balancing" and instead of finally having some nice, balanced fights, we'll just end up with a lot more of the same with many of the players who were ezmoding on freepside now gleefully doing much of the same on their creep alts.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#C7CF92][img]http://i.imgur.com/9rGw1Yd.gif[/img]
    Misadventure - R14 Hunter, Fatwanda-1 - R10 Guard
    Velvetsixteen - R13 Reaver, Reported - R11 Warg, Gloriousleader - R10 WL[/COLOR]
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    Sadly, all the players who would need to learn how to properly use their full arsenal of skills, are likely to flop over to creep while the weather's good on that side and likely roll a defiler. I've been creep since HD because that side could use the most help on our server. Log in today and all kinds of names I haven't seen in ages, names I've never heard of before, or see players who have been playing freep exclusively since HD out on their creeps.
    On Brandy, those people won't find themselves getting into raids or many groups

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    At the very least, freeps are going to have to learn to put healing debuffs on creeps.
    This is funny and sad at the same time....
    Ridduk R14 WL
    Brandywine

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    Title says it all.

    The team failed to find a middle ground yet again, and made us insane healing/debuffing monsters. I can't fathom how the statistics numbers, skill mechanics and their impact on the enemy players aren't tested more, but this is ridiculous. From a marginal class who got no love for years you go into another extreme and make the class unbeatable with 0 inductions for gourds and debuffs, which basically makes us Hot based Dot machinegun. WL+defiler duo will be unbeatable, hell, WL's wouldn't even be necessary anymore if they didn't have the incombat rez and a bubble.

    I don't like it. It's too much of a jump, too big of an extreme. That is all.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ealing-balance
    I failed to see your contribution to it. Yet you draw conclusions after few hours of Live.
    It's at least the 3rd time Defiler is hardly soloable. The pendulum swings, people would know that if they'd shown up before RoI.

    You don't like it, want a challenge, back to your chimp, you've got few weeks left.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ealing-balance
    I failed to see your contribution to it. Yet you draw conclusions after few hours of Live.
    It's at least the 3rd time Defiler is hardly soloable. The pendulum swings, people would know that if they'd shown up before RoI.

    You don't like it, want a challenge, back to your chimp, you've got few weeks left.
    The pendulum has swung multiple times from the time of ROI, so your attempt to negate my opinion/rant based solely on the fact that I haven't PVPed before that, (and you have), is flawed. No, I have not contributed in that thread, but I saw a lot of meaningful posts aimed at various opinions regarding the power of the defiler - some people were thinking it's too powerful, some thought it's just right - there was nothing even close to consensus reached in the end. The concern about drawing conclusions just after a few hours of live might be valid, if the difference just wasn't too big, but no - my defiler can easily withstand multiple DPS classes at once, and no, not just the low ranks. And I don't think First Agers will do THAT much difference. Regarding playing my champ, besides the fact that he is retired, I like my community on creepside and see no reason to flip sides for every patch when the balance shifts. If that's your style, that's fine, but I like my current consistency.
    Vilya: Healadder (defiler, R10), Kommisar (stalker, R7).
    Snowbourn: Superserial (warleader, R8), Steelstack (reaver, R6).
    Brandywine: Manvet (champion, R10 - Retired); Stargash-1 (reaver, R12)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    The pendulum has swung multiple times from the time of ROI,
    HD launch. What other time could you possible think creeps had the upper hand?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    HD launch. What other time could you possible think creeps had the upper hand?
    Don't be dumb. There's been plenty. Typically after expansions although never to the magnitude or duration of when freeps have had (and will again) the upper hand.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    Don't be dumb. There's been plenty. Typically after expansions although never to the magnitude or duration of when freeps have had (and will again) the upper hand.
    Please point out the "plenty" of times after RoI when the pendulum swung creepside.

    Don't even think about saying RoR launch; it was the most balanced PvMP had been since SoA, but in no way gave creeps this huge upper hand. Just required freeps to readjust their tactics.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    HD launch. What other time could you possible think creeps had the upper hand?
    You're generalizing. Yes, overall freeps had advantage most of the time, but there have been percentiles of times when certain classes had major advantages to other, certainly not all, classes, as it should be, considering we're not talking about mirrored classes, which are in theory the only possible balanced PVP. I'm talking about ROR spiders and HD Reavers and Wargs, as far as creeps go, and I don't mean the start of HD, when audacity was bugged. Every class has a certain nemesis class opponents, against which they seems OP, but current state defiler is unbeatable, able to effectively exhaust and kill most other classes.
    Vilya: Healadder (defiler, R10), Kommisar (stalker, R7).
    Snowbourn: Superserial (warleader, R8), Steelstack (reaver, R6).
    Brandywine: Manvet (champion, R10 - Retired); Stargash-1 (reaver, R12)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    You're generalizing. Yes, overall freeps had advantage most of the time, but there have been percentiles of times when certain classes had major advantages to other, certainly not all, classes, as it should be, considering we're not talking about mirrored classes, which are in theory the only possible balanced PVP. I'm talking about ROR spiders and HD Reavers and Wargs, as far as creeps go, and I don't mean the start of HD, when audacity was bugged. Every class has a certain nemesis class opponents, against which they seems OP, but current state defiler is unbeatable, able to effectively exhaust and kill most other classes.
    Check your PM's

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    your attempt to negate my opinion/rant
    You do that very well all by yourself...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    Every class has a certain nemesis class opponents, against which they seems OP, but current state defiler is unbeatable, able to effectively exhaust and kill most other classes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    I like my current consistency.
    I like it too.
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    Wine Wine Wine. Dry Dry Dry. What will it be today ?...
    Beer!


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    Don't push it. Don't push it or I'll give you a war you won't believe.

    ~John J. Rambo

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    You do that very well all by yourself...




    I like it too.
    You either have problems with understanding what you read, or just have a short attention span. I don't know, maybe both, I can't judge. The "consistency" part of my post was written in relation to the way I spend my time in the game - spending time with my tribemates and online friends that I have made on creepside. It's not connected to the current status of the defiler, which you're trying to imply by connecting 2 parts of my post that have no connection.
    Vilya: Healadder (defiler, R10), Kommisar (stalker, R7).
    Snowbourn: Superserial (warleader, R8), Steelstack (reaver, R6).
    Brandywine: Manvet (champion, R10 - Retired); Stargash-1 (reaver, R12)

  20. #20
    yer defi is op but stop crying coz its unbeatable , you had classes like guard cappy mini lms ( decent ones) were are op cant kill 1v1 , defi needed something like this having to run away from people 1v1 all the time the weakest classes in game imo before update, stop and think how we felt when we saw u lot with the cappys tanks where we just couldn't kill you etc ;s

    creeps need a class like a mini and they got one at least , mini heal mode is just the same as defi now basically
    Mrmatty- R14 defiler

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manvett View Post
    Title says it all.
    It's about time defilers got to experience the excitement of being somewhat able to kill something!
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  22. #22
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    I dont think they are overpowered me and my wife got wiped by 3 freeps while we were grinding quests... we are both Rank 9 they are just an equal to minstrels is all.... a single creep doesn't drop a heal spamming minstrel, why should your single freep drop a heal spamming defiler?

    And by the way I also took my guard out to the moors and killed a couple creeps without issue, the people who complain about things are morale stacked and don't even try to fix their virtues, legendarys or even their jewellery.... please pay attention and get your mitigation virtues...

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderhorse View Post
    I dont think they are overpowered me and my wife got wiped by 3 freeps while we were grinding quests... we are both Rank 9 they are just an equal to minstrels is all.... a single creep doesn't drop a heal spamming minstrel, why should your single freep drop a heal spamming defiler?

    And by the way I also took my guard out to the moors and killed a couple creeps without issue, the people who complain about things are morale stacked and don't even try to fix their virtues, legendarys or even their jewellery.... please pay attention and get your mitigation virtues...
    This is helpful. Actual examples of what it is like away from the horde of defilers.

    Lets all wait for things to settle. Some enthusiast will spend a day calculating and comparing heal/sec and dmg/sec for the classes and then we can see a quantitative comparison.
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  24. #24
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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with defilers.

    Just as there was nothing wrong with:

    Yellow Cappies
    RoI Ministels
    RoR Wardens
    SoM Guardians

    There are plenty of players who can now play their defiler and do well against Freeps. Balance as been attained.

    Right now a "well played" defiler doesn't even have to kite in anything less than a 3V1...LOL
    "...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace

  25. #25
    I have played defiler since ROR on Landroval. I was pleased that there was going to be some development on my heals and inductions as my creep buddies told me I was redundant and should be a WL. Also my burg buddies would stun me and even with my full aud, high crit def and R9 I could be taken in less than 5 seconds. With zero attack capability I could only watch as a mini blasts me down. Despite this I still loved being a defiler.

    However the idea of craid packed with new high healing defilers excites me as much as a fraid full of cappies, minis and guards or someone who calls in a craid to zerg a solo LM in Groth. This could be really boring. Anyway it's too early to call but I hope I don't see one of those periods where one side bails because when a side bails the fun is over for all.

    Dr Filth
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