Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage disarm removal

[Stephen1981]

i feel like the disarm removal should be tied to a skill like boast or something not my stun removal skill

[Gottapee]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ar-champ-skill

It's actually just a few threads below you -_-


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Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

-Jinjaah

[Stephen1981]

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...ar-champ-skill

It's actually just a few threads below you -_-


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you misunderstood me i don't agree with it being tied to these two skills i prefer it on different skill not put on are stun removal skill

[Jinjaah]

you misunderstood me i don't agree with it being tied to these two skills i prefer it on different skill not put on are stun removal skill

I think going forward we can look to have the best of both worlds. I think BR and CBR should clear disarms and there should be another way a champ can remove disarm either via a talent or a skill. This is something we will look into over the next update.

-Jinjaah

[Stephen1981]

I think going forward we can look to have the best of both worlds. I think BR and CBR should clear disarms and there should be another way a champ can remove disarm either via a talent or a skill. This is something we will look into over the next update.

-Jinjaah

i think having it ty to continuous blood rage and blood rage is still silly should be another skill

[Jinjaah]

I find .gifs of animals acting like humans to be silly, I don't really find the functionality of a classes skills in an mmo to be that much of a laugh... :P

But on a serious note, I don't think its an ideal solution as people have pointed out in their feedback thus far to have these skills be the only means of removing Disarm from the champion. However, disarm is a very potent form of crowd control on such a melee heavy class and so if the skills intention is to clear crowd control or provide immunity for a brief duration, then it should include disarm in the same category of a stun, root, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, we will look into adding some additional disarm removal or resistance for the champion.

-Jinjaah

[difens]

My guardian can remove disarms (and every other effects) with separate skill on 5 second cooldown (and I love it). Champion, master of melee combat is being disarmed by measly orcs and has to wait alot longer to get his weapons back. How pathetic. BTW, why effect description says 'primary weapon: disarmed', while in fact both of my weapons go away?

[SvenNiscadae]

My guardian can remove disarms (and every other effects) with separate skill on 5 second cooldown (and I love it). Champion, master of melee combat is being disarmed by measly orcs and has to wait alot longer to get his weapons back. How pathetic. BTW, why effect description says 'primary weapon: disarmed', while in fact both of my weapons go away?

Either way you can't use any melee skills because they all require your primary (read: main-hand) weapon regardless if you have an off-hander. They didn't make it disarm the off-hand because classes that use shields should still be able to block.

Thank you, Jinjaah, for some ability to remove a disarm without using a wound pot (it does happen a lot though). Looking forward to seeing another method being addressed in the next update. I don't really use blood rage too often to even get out of a stun. Most are a short enough duration that I don't worry about it. If it's a long one, then I do use it but it's rare. I'll just tell everyone else that it's nap time.

[Palentian]

My guardian can remove disarms (and every other effects) with separate skill on 5 second cooldown (and I love it). Champion, master of melee combat is being disarmed by measly orcs and has to wait alot longer to get his weapons back. How pathetic. BTW, why effect description says 'primary weapon: disarmed', while in fact both of my weapons go away?

I wondered about that myself. When my hunter gets disarmed, I can still shoot you in the face (which I'm better at than swinging a sword anyway, so what?). How does that work???? Is this a melee only state??? (and I know this is the champ thread, but can we PULEEEZ give the RK some way to pick up his freaking rock????? Its the ONLY class that is absolutely useless when disarmed. The only thing I can do is head butt! That's just undignified!!!)

[Thorcar]

I find .gifs of animals acting like humans to be silly, I don't really find the functionality of a classes skills in an mmo to be that much of a laugh... :P

But on a serious note, I don't think its an ideal solution as people have pointed out in their feedback thus far to have these skills be the only means of removing Disarm from the champion. However, disarm is a very potent form of crowd control on such a melee heavy class and so if the skills intention is to clear crowd control or provide immunity for a brief duration, then it should include disarm in the same category of a stun, root, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, we will look into adding some additional disarm removal or resistance for the champion.

-Jinjaah

Considering the sorry state of champ dps vs other classes and the dramatic decrease in survival skills outside of blue line, it might give the class an interesting twist and a little extra survival ability to incorporate some sort of immunity to disarms. This could be through an option in the trait tree or even a buff skill we must keep up along the lines of the old LM's SI.

[mrfigglesworth]

Considering the sorry state of champ dps vs other classes and the dramatic decrease in survival skills outside of blue line, it might give the class an interesting twist and a little extra survival ability to incorporate some sort of immunity to disarms. This could be through an option in the trait tree or even a buff skill we must keep up along the lines of the old LM's SI.

love this idea. we're masters of weapons.

[Stephen1981]

I find .gifs of animals acting like humans to be silly, I don't really find the functionality of a classes skills in an mmo to be that much of a laugh... :P

But on a serious note, I don't think its an ideal solution as people have pointed out in their feedback thus far to have these skills be the only means of removing Disarm from the champion. However, disarm is a very potent form of crowd control on such a melee heavy class and so if the skills intention is to clear crowd control or provide immunity for a brief duration, then it should include disarm in the same category of a stun, root, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, we will look into adding some additional disarm removal or resistance for the champion.

-Jinjaah

yea and no one in their right mind will use cause they will be more worry about using it for stuns unless u plan on lower the CD of it which i doubt you are

[Vulcwen]

I find .gifs of animals acting like humans to be silly, I don't really find the functionality of a classes skills in an mmo to be that much of a laugh... :P

But on a serious note, I don't think its an ideal solution as people have pointed out in their feedback thus far to have these skills be the only means of removing Disarm from the champion. However, disarm is a very potent form of crowd control on such a melee heavy class and so if the skills intention is to clear crowd control or provide immunity for a brief duration, then it should include disarm in the same category of a stun, root, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, we will look into adding some additional disarm removal or resistance for the champion.

-Jinjaah

Not really champ-related, but would it be possible to add a 5-10s Disarm immunity as expiration and removal effect of disarm? There is only one thing more annoying than being cc'ed, and that is being chain-cc'ed, so that would help against it (same with silence ofc).

[Pyroburn]

Not really champ-related, but would it be possible to add a 5-10s Disarm immunity as expiration and removal effect of disarm? There is only one thing more annoying than being cc'ed, and that is being chain-cc'ed, so that would help against it (same with silence ofc).

Disarm immunity still kinda works. I know cause I've seen immune pop above my head after a disarm clears so long as I did not clear the wound effect with a pot.

[Aedfrith]

Not really champ-related, but would it be possible to add a 5-10s Disarm immunity as expiration and removal effect of disarm? There is only one thing more annoying than being cc'ed, and that is being chain-cc'ed, so that would help against it (same with silence ofc).

That would be lovely. Chain-disarm is one of the most annoying things in the game, though ranged classes don't need to worry too much. Let's just go over the effect of disarms on all classes, shall we? Effect level is my take on the severity of the debuff with 10 being the most severe.

BURG: Unable to DPS. Can riddle, use stun dust, and CJ. Disarm is a major inconvenience that can be removed with antidote. Effect level: 8.

CAPTAIN: Unable to DPS. Can use cry skills. Disarm is a medium inconvenience that can be removed with muster. Effect level: 7.

CHAMP: Unable to DPS. Can use Let Fly and self-buffs. Disarm is a major inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 10.

GUARD: Unable to DPS. Can use shield skills, cries and self-buffs. Disarm is a medium inconvenience that can be removed with Ignore the Pain. Effect level: 6.

HUNTER: Can still use bow (and why are you in melee range anyway?). Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 3.

LM: Unable to use staff-strike/sweep. Can use most tactical skills. Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can be removed with Knowledge of Cures. Effect level: 3.

MINSTREL: Still able to use cries and calls. Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 3.

RK: (Don't know, haven't got one - someone fill this bit in?)

WARDEN: Can switch to assailment and use jav. If in melee, can use sh and fi but not complete gambits (even sh-fi ones - wut?). Disarm is a medium inconvenience (major if tanking) that can be removed with First Aid. Effect level: 7.

As you can see, and as Jinjaah has acknowledged, the effect is worse for champs than any other class.

[Vulcwen]

That would be lovely. Chain-disarm is one of the most annoying things in the game, though ranged classes don't need to worry too much. Let's just go over the effect of disarms on all classes, shall we? Effect level is my take on the severity of the debuff with 10 being the most severe.

BURG: Unable to DPS. Can riddle, use stun dust, and CJ. Disarm is a major inconvenience that can be removed with antidote. Effect level: 8.

CAPTAIN: Unable to DPS. Can use cry skills. Disarm is a medium inconvenience that can be removed with muster. Effect level: 7.

CHAMP: Unable to DPS. Can use Let Fly and self-buffs. Disarm is a major inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 10.

GUARD: Unable to DPS. Can use shield skills, cries and self-buffs. Disarm is a medium inconvenience that can be removed with Ignore the Pain. Effect level: 6.

HUNTER: Can still use bow (and why are you in melee range anyway?). Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 3.

LM: Unable to use staff-strike/sweep. Can use most tactical skills. Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can be removed with Knowledge of Cures. Effect level: 3.

MINSTREL: Still able to use cries and calls. Disarm is a minor inconvenience that can only be removed with pots. Effect level: 3.

RK: (Don't know, haven't got one - someone fill this bit in?)

WARDEN: Can switch to assailment and use jav. If in melee, can use sh and fi but not complete gambits (even sh-fi ones - wut?). Disarm is a medium inconvenience (major if tanking) that can be removed with First Aid. Effect level: 7.

As you can see, and as Jinjaah has acknowledged, the effect is worse for champs than any other class.

Correction, for LMs it graybars most skills (yes also tactical) except for a few ground-based debuffs and knowledge of cures (the last of which being a 2s induction skill by default).
I think for RKs it graybars most stuff as well (including the skill that can clear it, but it's a pro-active clear...).
Guards have ignore the pain on a 5s cd, meaning they can almost always cure it, so that is a minor inconvenience for them (especially if it's traited to remove 4).
I agree though that champs are off the worst atm because they don't have a skill to remove it on a relatively short cd (15s or lower).

Only minstrels and hunters do not get almost completely graybarred by disarm.

[TamX]

I think that it's OK that anti-disarm is tied to BR/CBR. First, pre-HD Hedge was too powerful, as you could keep disarm-immunity up all the time. There is no use for these kinds of effects, if you can remove them all the time - except maybe if the previous anti-stun thing is returned, that what consumed Morale when used. Second, with this change you need to decide when to use BR/CBR, if there is possibility to get disarms, stuns and roots at the same time.

Instead, I'd like to repeat things that I think would need more attention: (1) No effect removal skill (for tanking) like Warden's "First Aid", (2) in fact, higher part of blue tree seems to concentrate to increase DPS instead of survavibility, which I find strange, (3) No more off-tanking capabilities, you're either tank or not tank, (4) No possiblity to switch between AoE and ST in-combat, (5) one forced taunt *without* damage with 5 min CD, makes pretty hard to get aggro in fights were AoE is not allowed.

The point (4) means that if Champs are getting decent single-target line, AoE line will come as rare as it was pre-HD (you get Raging Blade from yellow line for red champ). In many instances you can't AoE all the time to complete challenges and such. I would gladly take togglable 'nerf' 'stance' to temporarily make all AoE attacks single-target ones. And I'd gladly take 'Glory'-like togglable 'stance' to turn on and off threat generation for off-tanking purposes.

[Fralin]

So... ummm.... why did you remove Hedge to begin with Jinjah?

[Pyroburn]

RK: (Don't know, haven't got one - someone fill this bit in?)

RK, all skills go grey. The only cure is a pot unless they put up the clear first, but it only works for a few seconds and is probably not really effective in stopping it. Honestly it's a PITA on an RK. You would think at least "word" skills would work, but apparently not... w/e

I still think champ is worse off just in the fact that we can't even preventive cure it...