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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    82

    Runekeeper - Concession and Rebuttal

    I'm not 100% certain who the RK developer is... last I checked the developer was Jinjaah?

    Anyways, i'd just like to praise the developer for this fantastic and much needed skill yet I feel it should be tweaked and I understand we must be nearing the 3/4 phase of beta but I feel the suggested changes are necessary and could be easily implemented as they already exist within other classes.




    Amazing skill yet I feel the sustaining bolt element is such a waste of 1 charge, I am going to throw this out there and say no lightning RK will run out of power during lengthy battles, even without the assistance of a Loremaster and here is why...

    Self Motivation

    Note the skill cooldown (can be reduced to 30s w/ Legacy, and the power cost of all skills can be reduced by this skill with the following enhancing trait...



    Steady Hands

    Please note the image is out of date and the cooldown of this skill is now 45s



    Master of Tragedy



    So basically, with power pots we have no need for the sustaining bolt power return and I respectfully request the skill to be amended as in my eyes this must be a bug unless you intend to overkill us with power?

    Therefore, my conclusion would be that the effect is currently useless and a waste of such a valuable charge from Concession and Rebuttal, i'm sure it would not be difficult to alter the effect if you agree...

    I would recommend an effect of equal value to the epic conclusion DoT, the max writ of lightning tier buff or the slow from shocking words such as one of the following:

    • 100% crit chance on sustenance heal

    • Small HoT 300-500 every 2s for 8/10s

    • Sustaining bolt automatic critical hit

    • +15% - 25% crit multiplier buff on next skill use



    After testing the recent changes, our tactical damage has been reduced by a large amount at approx 20% and incoming damage increased due to the mitigation changes and whilst this will be appropriate to correct balance in PvE... I feel its a harsh turn for PvP from my perspective and Runekeepers will be fully reliant on healers especially with the creeps changes which I approve but something more is needed... 2k sustenance self heal is relatively small especially for the populated servers such as Elendilmir or Brandywine and it has become very difficult to kill before you are killed this update.

    I hope other Runekeepers agree but would appreciate any feedback on my thoughts.

    A question to the relevant developer regarding sustenance, is sustenance directly affected by Tale of the Storm (critical chance)? I have never tested this myself... its the +1% critical chance per attunement which the class bonus implements. oh and the sustenance heal potency is sucky, that's up for discussion too

    Distracting winds anyone? Don't get me started.

    Legona.

    EDIT:

    In conclusion,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Peronsally, I hate the whole, you have 5 charges, and end up blowing half of them on writ tier 3 and Sustaining Bolt. With C&R up at the moment, in order to save those precious charges, you just have to avoid healing which RK's with survivability as-is right now, in pvp cannot afford to do.
    Last edited by Ryan607; Apr 02 2014 at 11:43 AM.
    .
    #1 Power Stacker Of Arkenstone!
    We are the Gods NOW!
    Legona.

  2. #2
    Yes, Jinjaah is still the RK developer, I believe. At least he was two-and-a-half months ago when he last posted on the RK forums.

    Agreed, Concession and Rebuttal is a great skill. I think Sustaining Bolt is a badly flawed skill at the moment, however. I can't remember the last time I ran low on power as a lightening RK, and that's without ever using Sustaining Bolt for a power return. In my experience, RKs really don't need something like SB for power. Then there's the scaling on its heal. It looks like in beta, you get less than 400 morale between an attunement 1 usage and a full attunement usage. That's Very little actual scaling, and makes it not worth cashing out your attunement for imo. I imagine that you, and just about every RK out there, will continue to use this at the lowest attunement possible and when Concession and Rebuttal isn't active (no one wants to cash an orb in for such a small heal) if they go live with a mere 400 morale or less on a full attunement usage. It's just a badly designed skill with rather limited usefulness as it is.

    Good luck on getting you suggestions implemented. It seems to me that since HD go live, only about half-a-dozen RK bugs have been fixed, and zero suggestions for changes have been implemented.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  3. #3
    I completely agree with that.

    Already as it is now, I rarely use SB because the heal ammount is so low that its not worth wasting your atunement to get that much back. RKs currently have their survivabilty thrown down a lot. If you go on PVP, a 2k heal is what? ONE hit from a warg? So even if they raise another 400 morale for a full attunement, doesnt really make a difference, its a useless skill. Could either remove it cuz its pointless, or just make it good enough to be worth using it.
    I like the idea of adding a heal over time to it; since a DPS RK has to keep switching attunement in order to save himself and getting one disarm already ruins every possibility of survival.

    Maybe adding a dmg reflect to lightning armor wouldnt be so bad either, since we dont get the fire armor anymore.
    Having a DPS nerf and this low survivability, I'm affraid RKs are gonna become extinct. And it would be a shame because its not a "free" class since you have to buy it on store or getting moria expansion in order to play it.

    It should be a much more awesome class, and each update it just gets more and more ruined.
    Im thinking they should rename the class to Ruined-keeper.

    PLUS, they should check those RK armor/jewlery set bonuses. I dont know ONE rune keeper who would ever think of using those. =(

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,292
    First off, good post. You're right about power regen, healing line is the only one I find I occasionally run out of power on, and that's usually because to take a few seconds out for self motivation is precious healing lost, although I do trait it for the morale heal too.

    Peronsally, I hate the whole, you have 5 charges, and end up blowing half of them on writ tier 3 and Sustaining Bolt. With C&R up at the moment, in order to save those precious charges, you just have to avoid healing which RK's with survivability as-is right now, in pvp cannot afford to do. I like the whole 21sec bubble thing (with legacy) and the nice Motivation heal, but the induction on Motiv makes it crazy hard to get off in most fights without 2-3 attempts, and having to fully de-attune, heal attune 1 notch, pop a bubble, then re-dps attune to use a skill like shocking words, for underwhelming damage, and then repeat, is a bit laborious.

    C&R just needs to affect 2 skills, EC and Shocking Words. As is, Writ is too much of a big builder (3) to go without using to save pulses, and it's not like you're going to need to instantly stack it to 3 anyway, since it's pretty rare you're going to use it only once per fight. For me it's every other skill.

    RK could use a small heal over time, personally I'd prefer it if this wasn't tied to C&R, I feel that vs 1-2 melee dps creeps, once you've extinguished AoS and C&R you have nothing, and when you die, then you have 2-3 minutes to wait until you can next be anywhere near capable 1v1 with anything half-decent. I don't profess to be a great RK but it could do with a bump in survivability without constantly having to stop moving/re-attune.

    Just my 2 cents

  5. #5
    The sad thing is, there are dozens of pages of RK feedback in the forums suggesting changes that would make RKs a bit more survivable, and would fix some issues with their healing. To my knowledge, since HD's launch, outside of a few bug fixes, not a single suggestion has been implemented or even tested in betas.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    England
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethrildar View Post
    Peronsally, I hate the whole, you have 5 charges, and end up blowing half of them on writ tier 3 and Sustaining Bolt. With C&R up at the moment, in order to save those precious charges, you just have to avoid healing which RK's with survivability as-is right now, in pvp cannot afford to do.

    This explains it all. You are wise sir.

    I will disagree that the number of uses for C&R should be reduced tho Writ of lighting should tier down... as all other tiered writs do and have always done and sustaining bolt should be useful as outlined above.


    Ryan.
    .
    #1 Power Stacker Of Arkenstone!
    We are the Gods NOW!
    Legona.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    England
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    The sad thing is, there are dozens of pages of RK feedback in the forums suggesting changes that would make RKs a bit more survivable, and would fix some issues with their healing. To my knowledge, since HD's launch, outside of a few bug fixes, not a single suggestion has been implemented or even tested in betas.

    Bring back writ of health as a universal skill or even all writs as they always have been, to combat the lack of self heals in fire spec and lightning if bolt is not to be improved. Plus I do not use self motivation heal in fire as I feel its a wasteful use of trait points when tactical crit chance would be much more valuable instead of a heal which cannot crit and is impossible to use with several melee agro including disarms/fears and stuns/dazes.




    But as you pointed out, we feel ignored.
    .
    #1 Power Stacker Of Arkenstone!
    We are the Gods NOW!
    Legona.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan607 View Post
    Bring back writ of health as a universal skill or even all writs as they always have been, to combat the lack of self heals in fire spec and lightning if bolt is not to be improved.
    I have to agree here. Writ of Fire, Cold, and Health were very handy, and I feel they still could be, if brought back in as universal skills that you can use in any setup. I myself am not very happy with the changes to the class and I feel the RK still needs to be 'tweaked.'

    Plus I do not use self motivation heal in fire as I feel its a wasteful use of trait points when tactical crit chance would be much more valuable instead of a heal which cannot crit and is impossible to use with several melee agro including disarms/fears and stuns/dazes.
    Also, perhaps change the skill back to what it did beforehand; 10 second immunity to 'knockback skill induction.' I don't know if I am the only one who thinks this, but I feel we need this; both in PvE and PvP.

    But as you pointed out, we feel ignored.
    Ah, maybe that's why there aren't more of us.
    [B]Ryuc of Landroval | Ryuc-1 of Landroval | Ryuc-2 of Landroval[/B]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    709
    Considering Parchments still don't work 6~7 Months after being bugged in HD B1, swap out WoH and EftA as a Basic Skill.
    Member of the Vocal Minority

  10. #10
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    Nov 2010
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    England
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    A little background as to where we currently stand as Runekeepers;

    • Mastery down - 70 mastery per will instead of the current 100 mastery per will which explains the next two points

    • Outgoing damage down - Approx 20-22%

    • Healing down - @ -8% from login

    • Morale unchanged/down - Approx +250 with 1st age, +450 with the new chisels BUT we must now trait mitigations and so we receive no morale from traits resulting with a loss of up to 1200 morale

    • Mitigation's down - Orc craft + fell wrought @ 10% average upon login and so we MUST fully trait mitigation virtues and aim for +mitigation on runestones

    • Sustenance - 400 morale increase in potency at full attunement which makes the skill at full attunement a lower heal compared to as it is now Live thanks to the healing reduction

    • Crit down - Fate now provides 2.5 crit per fate, a reduction of 0.5



    Overall, some pretty appealing changes to look forward to.


    ------ scored a hit with Impale on Legona for 1,625 Orc-craft damage to Morale.**

    **Note was not a crit or a dev and landed 5 times.
    Last edited by Ryan607; Apr 05 2014 at 10:47 AM.
    .
    #1 Power Stacker Of Arkenstone!
    We are the Gods NOW!
    Legona.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan607 View Post
    A little background as to where we currently stand as Runekeepers;

    • Mastery down - 70 mastery per will instead of the current 100 mastery per will which explains the next two points

    • Outgoing damage down - Approx 20-22%

    • Healing down - @ -8% from login

    • Morale unchanged/down - Approx +250 with 1st age, +450 with the new chisels BUT we must now trait mitigations and so we receive no morale from traits resulting with a loss of up to 1200 morale

    • Mitigation's down - Orc craft + fell wrought @ 10% average upon login and so we MUST fully trait mitigation virtues and aim for +mitigation on runestones

    • Sustenance - 400 morale increase in potency at full attunement which makes the skill at full attunement a lower heal compared to as it is now Live thanks to the healing reduction

    • Crit down - Fate now provides 2.5 crit per fate, a reduction of 0.5



    Overall, some pretty appealing changes to look forward to.


    ------ scored a hit with Impale on Legona for 1,625 Orc-craft damage to Morale.**

    **Note was not a crit or a dev and landed 5 times.
    Why do developers hate RKs?

    They already took away ALL RK healing abilities that were vaguely useful for SINGLE TARGET HEALING CLASS and made us into some mediocre AOE HoT reliant lore-master spirit pet.


    RKs demand a buff!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    709
    Many good ideas submitted since before 12.2 yet very little has been done - or even talked about by developers.
    Member of the Vocal Minority

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JeauxLOTR View Post
    Many good ideas submitted since before 12.2 yet very little has been done - or even talked about by developers.
    To my knowledge, there's only been one bug fix for RKs in the four and a half months since HD's release. Absolutely Nothing has been done on any of the "many good ideas" submitted. I don't think we've seen a dev on any RK thread in about what, 3 months?
    Last edited by Nouri; Apr 08 2014 at 01:52 PM.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
    Malakorou - Rank 10 Defiler
    Casinari - Original Challenger of Saruman Minstrel

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    To my knowledge, there's only been one bug fix for RKs in the four and a half months since HD's release. Absolutely Nothing has been done on any of the "many good ideas" submitted. I don't think we've seen a dev on any RK thread in about what, 3 months?
    I for one am glad they finally fixed Rousing Words.

    But RKs seem to be in the same place Champs are, lots of good plans and great input, but nothing gets done with it. Maybe it'll be our turn after Champs have been looked at?
    Characters: Tindillin (100 Rank 7 Rune-keeper), Arnillion (95 Rank 4 Hunter) on Evernight

 

 

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