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  1. #1

    Please bring back Hedge or a similar champ skill.

    A champ without weapons is no champ. It is known.

    Many mobs - not just uruks, but many hillmen, wolves and others - disarm. You can be chain-disarmed. It is known.

    Wound pots have a cooldown. Champs have no real status removal skill like cappy Muster, LM Knowledge of Cures, warden First Aid, guard Ignore the Pain... just Fear Nothing.

    Champs used to have a skill called Hedge which removed disarms and made one disarm proof.

    It's disappeared.

    Please bring it back (as others have asked).

    A champ without weapons is no champ. It is known.

    100s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Hrolfdan (MN), Aldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rumbold (BG): The little ones - Rumbelina (MN), Brai (RK)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), Snowbourn
    A Noob for All Seasons

  2. #2
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    Why it is even possible for the master of melee combat to be disarmed in the first place is a source of endless wonder.

    Why HD has stopped us from being able to do anything against it save quaff wound pots is beyond me.

    I am a champion in heavy armor. Suppose (and it's quite the assumption) you can disarm me, which is quite the feat as I dual wield. Good luck with that. I should still be able to kill you with a deadly blow or kick. Heavy armor hurts when it hits.

    Please bring hedge back to all specializations. Wound pots don't cut it at all.

  3. #3
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    Just roll the new Champion class, Guardian. He can remove up to 4 effects with a skill on 5 second cooldown.
    Siggy

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jousimies View Post
    Just roll the new Champion class, Guardian. He can remove up to 4 effects with a skill on 5 second cooldown.
    Exactly my point - you did see my sig right? It's out of date, my guard is now 95 (like my hunter, captain, LM, burg and minstrel). Guard (red with big yellow dip) is so much more fun to play than champ right now it's not real.

    100s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Hrolfdan (MN), Aldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rumbold (BG): The little ones - Rumbelina (MN), Brai (RK)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), Snowbourn
    A Noob for All Seasons

  5. #5
    yes please bring it back how is the master of melee combat get disarmed easily :/

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jousimies View Post
    Just roll the new Champion class, Guardian. He can remove up to 4 effects with a skill on 5 second cooldown.
    And Guardian DPS is a lot better than Champ DPS (I have both classes)
    Tank and Heal classes have better DPS than a DPS class... a bit weird.

  7. #7
    I too miss Hedge on my champion. At least my guardian can use some of his shield skills while disarmed, but my champion is out of luck. If Hedge can't be brought back, how about adding "disarmed" to the list of states removed by Blood Rage?

  8. #8
    jinjaah has said he's bringing it back in some form. The WHEN is still in flux....

  9. #9
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
    Turbine, Inc.
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    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah
    Woo hoo! Will there be any change to the cooldown, or will it stay at a minute?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theozor View Post
    Woo hoo! Will there be any change to the cooldown, or will it stay at a minute?
    Seeing as reaver's anti-cc skill Resilience has a 40s cooldown now I'd appreciate champion's Blood rage to have similar cooldown.
    Siggy

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah
    Not sure I like this... This is our stun break on, now what I would call a long cooldown for what it will now do. So in essence from what I can tell, our state removal just got worse because it does not solve the problem. Let me give you just one example where this sucks (aside from PvP)... School and Library (Ok I gave you 2)... Knocked down or disarmed, only to clear one and get the other... And those stuns are the long ones. And let's not even get into disarm, pot out, stunned, BR, disarmed again, waiting cause pot is on CD, stunned, disarmed. Now I can tell you this happened to me today in school today while doing the optional. It's stupid. And this change helps nothing.

    Sorry, having to trait the line for CBR for the immunity is just wrong...
    Igie/Aridel/Dorimor/Arrion/Rivver/Aridon/Serenety/Leeloominai/Ultraviolet[COLOR=Red]
    [/COLOR]

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah
    :/ This seems like a... uninspiring change, to me at least.

    Now two very different functions are tied to the same skill, and cooldown. To me its like combining fear nothing and second wind into a single skill that removes fear effects and restores power, sure they're sort of related in some loose sense, but having them as a single skill just doesn't fit, and doesn't leave you with the ability to choose what you want to do specifically.

    What is the problem with returning hedge as hedge (discounting the old improved hedge part, even)? I haven't played my champ much in the last 2 years, but in looking at skill layouts when I log it in, its not one of those classes that feels like its suffering from am overabundance of redundant skills. Heck, my warden's quickslots are far more filled than my champs.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah
    It would be better if we got Hedge back and you returned Continuous Blood Rage to its pre-U12 functionality. There is no reason not to do this.
    I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. ~ Faramir

    Undo the U12 class changes. The trait trees were, are, and will always be a bad idea.
    Maedhric 100 Captain, Nunion 93 Champion, Taraviel 85 Minstrel, etc...

  15. #15
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    While Jinjaah's plan would be an improvement over the status quo, I share the misgivings expressed by Spelunker and others.

    Will BR be going back to 1s cooldown with a morale cost, instead of the post-HD 1m cd with no cost? As the game currently stands, adding disarm removal to BR would not actually accomplish very much. Stuns are common enough that BR is very often on cd and thus couldn't be used on disarms anyway. Just saying - "better than the status quo" is a pretty low bar to clear.

    CBR disarm immunity is a really odd choice. Traditionally our best disarm immunity was with blue traits using Glory stance; I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that I *really* miss the old perma-Hedge! Very strange for one of the two dps lines to get the disarm immunity now. Let's assume for argument's sake that by the time this change is implemented red line will also be fixed. Not seeing what's special about red line that it would be temporarily un-disarmable, while yellow wouldn't be. And then there's blue... I guess the cynical pragmatic argument would be that since it's so hard to take champs seriously as tanks after HD there's no pressing reason to restore disarm immunity to its traditional primary home. I would prefer otherwise of course. In the past I was perfectly willing to take a hit on my dps in order to have (continuous!) disarm immunity - the ideal way to clear large orc camps with minimal annoyance, for example. I'd still be happy to do so if a solid disarm immunity ability was included in the new blue tree.

    Like much of what Turbine has been doing these past six months, I don't understand why they're "fixing" (in multiple senses of the word ) things that were not broken. Hedge was a great skill, perfectly suited to the class. Why take it away in the first place? Why not restore it exactly as it was now that the error has been recognized?

  16. #16

    Old Hedge Jinjaah...

    Just bring back the old Hedge please (maybe put it low in the Blue line tree) and being the most nerfed class post HD add back the armor rating bonus maybe to like 5K-10K Armor Rating. As this will help with mits as well. And NO a 5-10k armor rating is not OP just a little something to bridge the gap between the other heavy class's.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c21400000003fbb3/signature.png]Buromier[/charsig]

  17. #17
    Thanks for the response and looking forward to it.

  18. #18
    Signed, bring it back pls. Pretty pls. Thanks for replay, but in some form pls, bring it back. As it was, it was pretty nice.
    Well nowadays, maybe like guard skill, up to 3 effects, on shorty cd would be really nice in blue tree, would really fit there somewhere. Not too high but still.
    But living in a world where we are living, lets say it other way around. And Please get it in a right way. Iam not too big fan of "i told y". Because they cost dearly.
    Could you once hear what players are saying, before the concequences arrive. You make class bad or not so great to play.. hey have any of you seen warden nowadays.. where are they...
    And i feel for them. Every waren i meet on my server nowadys : ./bow. If someone have invested 2 yrs into char that gets ... nukeblasted into oblivion., there are concequences.
    Now, lets turn this tide around.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    A champ without weapons is no champ. It is known.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qXkuC35.jpg?1[/IMG][/CENTER]
    [COLOR="#00cc99"][B][CENTER]And then, forever remains that change from G to E minor.[/CENTER][/B][/COLOR]

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah
    Thank you!

    Could you please evaluate the cooldown duration, now that you've tied two of our most important CC-counters to one cooldown?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainothon View Post
    Thank you!

    Could you please evaluate the cooldown duration, now that you've tied two of our most important CC-counters to one cooldown?
    Got to agree. While this suggestion is better than the alternative, there are far too many disarms around for the stun removal skill with its long CD to be a genuine return to status quo ante.

    If you are really serious about not bringing Hedge back, how about also granting disarm immunity to one or all of:
    - Aggressive Exchange
    - Great Cleave
    - Controlled Burn ?

    100s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Hrolfdan (MN), Aldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rumbold (BG): The little ones - Rumbelina (MN), Brai (RK)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), Snowbourn
    A Noob for All Seasons

  22. #22
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    I have to agree with most of my fellow champs- bring back Hedge's original functionality for all three lines.

    Jinjahh, I appreciate you looking to give us back some Disarm clearing by adding it to BR/CBR, but it a clearly inferior solution compared to the old Hedge. The fact that this was thought to be the solution to the problem makes me wonder how much you have really played a Champion. Not played one in the sense of "I've leveled one on and off through some of the pre-Moria zones" but played one in the sense of "I've played a champ as my main since forever, in endgame raids and in PVP, as well as through the landscape content."

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Sthrax View Post
    I have to agree with most of my fellow champs- bring back Hedge's original functionality for all three lines.

    Jinjahh, I appreciate you looking to give us back some Disarm clearing by adding it to BR/CBR, but it a clearly inferior solution compared to the old Hedge. The fact that this was thought to be the solution to the problem makes me wonder how much you have really played a Champion. Not played one in the sense of "I've leveled one on and off through some of the pre-Moria zones" but played one in the sense of "I've played a champ as my main since forever, in endgame raids and in PVP, as well as through the landscape content."
    He doesn't play a champion.

    He stated in a dev chat that the highest he's leveled a champ to is 41 - and that he is thinking about switching to a guardian. Explains a lot, doesn't it?
    Last edited by GodOfBrandywine; Apr 02 2014 at 06:21 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hedge will not be coming back but Blood Rage and Continuous Blood Rage will be providing a disarm removal now while Continuous Blood Rage will provide disarm immunity for the duration of its effect.

    -Jinjaah

    so... get disarmed, pop blood rage and then get stunned completely invalidating the removal effects.

    do you think perhaps there's a reason noone has suggested this

    EDIT: furthermore, as disarm is a wound effect controlled blood rage already provided around a 70-80% resist chance so that "addition" is really nothing at all but added text to the skill description.

    EDIT2: also, both CBR/BR need to be made immediate because as they stand their queue duration and skill animations make it so the actual duration you're cutting off of the disarm/CC is in the tenths of seconds. Which sort of makes the skills useless.
    Last edited by Thorandril; Apr 02 2014 at 06:44 PM.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietlbomb View Post
    It would be better if we got Hedge back and you returned Continuous Blood Rage to its pre-U12 functionality. There is no reason not to do this.
    If I had to guess, the reasoning for going this route is because they do not want to add another button to our bar. Throwing an additional functionality to the preexisting skill is probably an "easy" fix from their perspective but a very unfortunate decision from the players' perspective.

 

 
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