Shumzuda R11 Blackarrow - Shumheals R6 Defiler - Shumzud R6 Warg Beardhug R9 Champion - Majeika R8 LM - Chuffnel Burglar
Not all those who wander are lost.
What warg haven't killed a freep even before before the stun duration ran out? I have found plenty of freeps like that. They were all squishy and maybe unsupported. Many of them lacked audacity and gear and they were NOT the proper wardens I was talking about. And ofc you can cooperate with some warg bro and blow up a light class in a few seconds.
You missed the part in my post where I was talking about proper wardens. I was also referring to 1vs1 fights against wardens since I don't use zergs as examples.
Yes I have fought certain wardens and my combatanalysis showed 2.7k+ TPS after several fights. Why did I bother fight them? Because they were on half or low morale which just worked out as baiting for them.
I was in shadow stance since you can just forget about flayer in such fights. I'll be happy to share SS of combatanalysis with you and you might see that you must be doing something wrong on your warden.
And no, I don't just spam claws. I use fleas, snap, cripple bite, silence, stuns...... all kinds of cc and debuffs.
Last edited by grapez; Apr 08 2014 at 07:25 AM.
I think the problem here is that four terrible wargs ran into a warden...
On a side note, a baby dies every time a warg enters Flayer. Please stop doing it...please...it hurts so much. We are a glass cannon class. High dps, low survivability. Using Flayer just makes you suck at both.
Enjoy, and stop by any time with your freepie, i would like you to meet 4 terrible wargs.
As for flayer - i use it when im in warg pack vs - guards, wardens, cappies. Pack flayer is still the best thing one grouped warg can throw in their face, so.. Im very happy if those freep babies are dying whenever i use Flayer after pouncing from stealth.
For example what do you think the results of the following would be :
1. Bad warg vs Bad guard or captain - ?
2. Average warg vs Average guard or captain - ?
3. Good warg vs Good guard or captain - ?
I have only been playing this game for a couple of months, so my views might not be accurate. From experience what I have noticed is that I can kill most guards and captains I come across. However if I come across a captain or guard who knows what they are doing with their class, I have near zero chance of killing them.
From a wargs perspective, I see my match-ups as follows : (assuming the opponent is a good player and is not holding back on any skills)
1. Warg vs Hunter - Warg wins except for the very rare cases where the hunter gets a very lucky dev hit.
2. Warg vs Warden - Warg has a good chance of getting a kill if warden doesnt use NS. But most likely the warg will die after the fight from bleeds and more often that not, the warden will use NS and hence will result in a warden win.
3. Warg vs Guard - Guard wins. Too many self heals for the amount of dps they dish out.
4. Warg vs captain - Captain wins. Too many self heals.
5. Warg vs minstrel - Advantage to minstrel, but warg has a chance of getting the kill. Against a minstrel traited blue - no chance.
6. Warg vs Runekeeper - Even fight. Warg wins if RK does not use AoS. If using AoS, RKs hold the advantage.
7. Warg vs Burglar - Even fight. Both have a good chance to kill the other mostly because wargs get the jump on burgs since they have tracks. Having said that, my server does not have many burglars. So this opinion might not be right.
8. Warg vs Loremaster - Even fight if LM is traited red. Advantage to LM if traited blue and spams WL. Warg usually wins if LM is traited red and has wisdom on cd.
9. Warg vs Champion - Warg wins if champ is traited red. Champ wins if champ is traited blue.
So basically the only fight that a warg really controls is the one against the hunter. Against every other class, assuming the opponent is good, it depends on what skills/traits the opponent uses. Every opponent except the hunter (though yellow line is a challenge) has a trait line or skill that will make them unkillable (assuming the opponent is a good player).
EDIT : Appears that this wasn't the topic of discussion in this thread. Apologies for the derail.
Last edited by Erazer_The_Stalker; Apr 10 2014 at 06:57 PM.
1.the warden was Red traited and red/blue specced,
2. had the HD warden tank jewelery on(10% chance to heal 10% max morale on hit)
3. The wargs were traited straight up glass cannon so no defense what so ever which is why the bleeds hit like they do(there are ways around that)
4. Was L.I swapping
5. The wargs need more group practice with CC.
with that being said earlier in the thread: 1v1s cant really be used to determine because as most of the population in this community knows different servers have different
1v1- Ethics, I know of only Meneldor on this but as far as wardens go
1. Cant heal
2. cant use O.S skills
that being said if a creep wants to play with all their skills go for it, but as a Veteran warden from mid SoM wasn't out much in MoM days, its a challenge we learn to adapt and accept.
and that's basically it, yes there are wardens that do use that out in the open but that's also not a pre-setup fight. You catch me in the open I will probably have NS and it could possibly be off CD which means I basically have 2 NS's to bait ya with. I don't know if there's a warg nearby so yeah I will probably not hold back
I've dabbled a bit on creep side and by no means have high ranked Creeps but I have a rank 6 warg that I have beaten shield wardens with and same with a R5 reaver traited and has all skills. can beat WL/zoo spamming lms, healing minis, shield wardens, yellow cappys. You just have to know how to fight them and possibly not be so much *glass cannon*.
On a whole other note Desolates I hear you 1v1 w/o any bleeds is that true?
Rank means nothing when talking about skill level.
Woooow, way too much discussion.
Blue traited or not, a warden just melt against 4 decent wargs. You guys weren't just good enough, that isn't a big deal. This apparently wasn't an exploit.
The key about fighting warden is silences and stuns, so cover your silences and dont get your stuns being too diminushed by the DR, when all CD are up and allowed, a warg should in most of the cases be able to get the NS to be able to repop and kill it in the next 5 mins. In bad cases you have vanish/pot.
Two or more wargs just have no excuses, sorry.
Lotro creepinists/freepinists be like 'when a warden of equal skill and a warg of equal skill fight, the warden wins automatically. This is obviously part of a system designed to benefit all wardens against all wargs.
We need to demolish this system. Let's all fight for wargs equality!'
How would you guys fare in rock paper scissors? Or would you all fight to have it abolished and forgotten?
The only issue in a PvMP system is when there is one class with no suitable counter. 4 wargs are 3 wargs more than neccesary to counter 1 warden in simply a mindless DPS race, let alone actually using debuffs and co-ordination to kill your target.
Wardens have suitable counters. So does pretty much every class.
The only innerant issues is that some classes don't counter any opposing classes at all (defiler/wl) and that some classes do not have enough counters placed against them (weavers). Perhaps also, some classes don't counter certain other classes well enough.
I have yet to see a warden that my warg cannot beat 1v1, even though this might be due to their rather poor play... I'll nearly always die myself, though. Gg balance,
I don't think warden DPS is the problem, it's DPS + morale + BPE + insane DoT damage. Giving them (and guards) 3 morale/vit would bring them on par with most other classes, imo.
BPE is irrelevant, I have very high BPE and BPE creeps so rarely it's somewhat laughable, and yet with 30% finesse I see wargs block with their teeth more often than I BPE in total.
The morale + dps, yep I agree, it's a killer combo.
I have soloed countless wargpacks of up to like.. 8-9, if they're bad, honestly I think I could take more, even more, if I switched to blue or something. Fact is, TWO good wargs and I mean good wargs, not mediocre wargs, will obliterate me, they'll do 2-3k dps each and maaaybe I'll bleed one or them both out a few sec if I die, maybe. If they're CC'ing me properly, disarming and silencing me properly, chances are I may not even get 1 kill there.
However, any warg 1v1? Not yet found a warg that as of U14 kills me or, even gets me below 30% health in a 1v1, this is without heals, obviously no NS, no buffs to speak of, even OPs, and includes rank 14 wargs, BWs' two rank 15 wargs don't play, currently. If an average/mid rank warg is beating a warden 1v1 the warden is majorly holding back (more than usual to not make the 1v1 faceroll) or the warden is bad. Simple as that really.
1v1, Warden is the best class out there with the only exceptions being Spider & Defiler, more-so for spider, since they seem to be able to use everything bar Burrow & TC (and both of these, too, in some cases) including full self healing in a 1v1, and that's totally cool, apparently.
But hey-ho, the op lost a 4v1 and it's clearly the enemy that's OP/exploiting, and not the fact that it was clearly 4 terrible wargs and the warden may have got a bit lucky on 15% double bleeds.
YEAH lets all nerf Warden bleeds so they can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the moors. We have a terrible, hard to apply 30% heals debuff, and high-dps. That's kind of it... We have no CCs to speak of, our ranged dps is mediocre at best, we just have hard hitting dots that make wargs and spiders blowing burrow cry. That's kind of it.
1. Self Heals
2. DoT damage
3. Upfront damage (kinnie how shown me 14k SoD upfront hit)
4. Survivability (BPE, morale)
You want a perma slow and CC or something? Honestly, if I'd have to pick the class that is best at the do-it-all, it would wardens. There's just no denying that. Wardens literally don't need anything more than this.
Also, I'm sure you're good and all that on your warden, but BW wargs must be terrible.
5/6 moors group, need blue line warden to spam self heals.
5/6 moors group, need warden to BPE stuff.
As I mentioned above, with 28% parry, 25% evade, and 10% block I'm lucky to BPE in total, as much as 1 warg will just block alone, lol.
SoV can do very very high up front damage, this is only due to the initial hit(s) of the bleed(s) it procs lol. Without the bleed component SoV will crit for about 5k with a ton of buffs. Each bleed initial pulse adds 10k to this. No bleeds? No damage.
Up-front damage aside from this is piss-poor, worse than what most creeps can chuck out.
Again, I'm talking classroles here, being able to self heal, block parry and evade (sometimes) and "having high morale" is not really much of a class role.
This is fairly obvious.
And as the above poster pointed out, warden upfront damage is nothing. Our dps is all dots.
Nobody considers yellow a possiblity it seems, but that gives some support that can be appreciated, especially the AoE -12,5% mitigation debuffs.
Than you have a role besides just doing DoT damage.
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