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  1. #1
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    XP From Hobbit Presents Bug or Not?

    Disclaimer: I am bringing this topic back up because it deserves a response... and official response. I really do not care what the answer is... but we need to know if this is "Working as Intended" or a bug that someone just stumbled upon and was turning it into something bigger than it is. I am not looking to "cause trouble" or anything remotely close. I would just like a response with the facts... so that if it is, indeed, a bug... I (and others) are not over reacting to something that we shouldn't.

    Yesterday, another person posted a thread pointing out that he/she was getting XP from Hobbit presents... just for spinning t he wheel. (For reference... https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-easier-please ).
    The video clearly shows gaining XP while standing there spinning the Hobbit slot machine.

    Is this XP a new feature you are testing? In other words, is it "working as intended" as seen on Bullroarer? (Yes, we know what is seen on Bullroarer is subject to change.)

    Or... was it just a bug that someone encountered? I think we are all mature enough to realize that bugs do occur and maybe this is being blown out of context.

    Again, I am NOT looking to cause trouble... nor am I looking for a lengthy discussion on whether or not this feature should/shouldn't be supported. I think the other thread contained enough of that for the moment.

    I simply seek a definitive answer one way or the other... so that (at least for my part) I am not reacting to rumors, etc that are not true.

    Yes, I know that posting this thread may be treading dangerously on breaking the forum guidelines. But, I do believe this issue deserves a straight answer so we can put the rumors to rest.

    If this is, in fact, an idea you are testing of giving XP for each spin of the Hobbit wheel... then say that... and (as long as people can be civil about it) let them have their say whether or not they approve/disapprove of this. If the people respond with overwhelming disapproval, then you have grounds to say "well, it was an idea we put forth..." and you could get genuine credit for listening to the players by killing the idea. I'm sure we've all been around long enough to have experienced putting forth ideas that might sound good on paper but after further investigation aren't such good ideas.

    If this is, in fact, just a bug... then say that... and let the rumor die by countering it with the correct information. Bam. It's over. It's done. Nothing to see here. We can move on to spreading other rumors.

    OK. I think I've rambled long enough to hopefully get the point across that I (and maybe we) would like a definitive answer from someone who knows the truth.
    Last edited by TheCrossbow; Mar 24 2014 at 08:36 PM.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  2. #2
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    Hobbit Presents granting XP is in fact By Design.

    By all means, please provide your feedback on this. As always, keep it constructive, honest, and calm.

  3. #3
    Just one question...


    Why?
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  4. #4
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    It seems like such a small amount of XP that the only question I can think of is "Why?"

    Is it 100% to get people to buy more Mithril Coins in the store for a tiny bit of XP? Or is it because people were asking for it?

    I really don't see any benefit for players, now that the most difficult part of leveling is *not* leveling. On the other hand, the downside is even fewer options of what you can do in this game if you like to control leveling and experience content as it was intended. If someone is both addicted to Hobbit Presents ( I won't get into the moral issue with encouraging this behavior) but also likes to level at a controlled pace, they have to make a choice. Same as crafting XP. Is the goal to force people to buy the XP disabler by sneaking in more and more XP?
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  5. #5
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    This doesn't even make sense

    If you can possibly pay currency for an item--ANY item--it shouldn't generate XP. Period. Even if it's obtained without paying said currency. By that logic, we should gain XP whenever we purchase items from vendors. Or during a trade with another player. Or from a purchase from the Store. And no, I'm NOT advocating adding XP gains to those transactions. Just the opposite. And with the hobbit present, which is a slot machine mechanic, you're encouraging gambling. Mithril coins are purchasable with TP, which are purchasable with REAL MONEY. LOTRO is a game, not a video slot machine. Adding XP to the present ups the ante (pardon the pun).

    You've worked so hard to create this wonderful world. How about rethinking this urge to insta-level characters past a region before they finish even a minimum of quests in that region, so that they can enjoy the fruits of your labor? They'll get to the areas that require purchase to thoroughly enjoy soon enough. There's value, and profit, in encouraging players to tarry along the way.

    Please rethink this. It's not much XP per present, but it's a slippery slope you're treading on---and whoever made the decision to include XP with hobbit presents just soaked the hill.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    Hobbit Presents granting XP is in fact By Design.

    By all means, please provide your feedback on this. As always, keep it constructive, honest, and calm.
    Thank you very much for your response. Again, I just wanted to know the facts either way. I did not want to be a party to spreading (or reacting to) a rumor that wasn't entirely accurate.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    Hobbit Presents granting XP is in fact By Design.

    By all means, please provide your feedback on this. As always, keep it constructive, honest, and calm.
    Kinda have to go with others here. XP from opening a present doesn't strike me as making much sense. I can at least make a case for XP from crafting, but by no stretch can I find a rational reason for XP from a present. I can even find the rationale for getting an XP boost from a present. Just not from opening a present. Maybe I'm just too old school when it comes to RPGs. One of the first rules I learned for DMing a D&D (2e) game was "Never award XP without a reason." Opening a door isn't a reason.

    The Hobbit Presents seem to be controversial enough without adding that in. I think the rewards I get from the present are enough.

  8. #8
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    I have to agree with those who have said there are already plenty of ways to gain XP in the game. Adding it to Hobbit Presents just makes the situation worse for people who feel they are being pushed along too quickly as it is.

    (I know we can buy the XP disabler in the Store, but that should not be used as a catch-all response for situations like this.)

    If XP is going to be added at all, then let it be like DDO's daily dice where it is given as an account-bound item. Let people choose whether they want to use it.

  9. #9
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    I have posted a separate "Feedback" thread in the General Discussion area... hoping to elicit some focused feedback from a wider variety of players. Please post your thoughts about it there.

    This thread I was really just looking for an official response and it has achieved that objective.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...17#post7128917

    Go to that thread and post your thoughts. Thanks!
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thornglen View Post
    If XP is going to be added at all, then let it be like DDO's daily dice where it is given as an account-bound item. Let people choose whether they want to use it.
    Don't we get account-bound XP tomes as a Hobbit Present reward already? I'm pretty sure I got one from a Hobbit Present the other day, because I sure didn't get, much less open, any lootboxes during the past couple of lootbox weekends. *looks rueful*

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    Don't we get account-bound XP tomes as a Hobbit Present reward already? I'm pretty sure I got one from a Hobbit Present the other day, because I sure didn't get, much less open, any lootboxes during the past couple of lootbox weekends. *looks rueful*
    We get IXP runes... and sometimes +100% XP tomes. However, those are all optional to use. I should know... I have a lot of them collecting dust in my vault!
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  12. #12
    This move doesn't make a ton of sense to me, though its far less of a red flag than the actual hobbit presents, for me personally.

    This is one of those examples of not really giving people what they want, but adding in other fluff to incentivise it that isn't really related to the actual thing in question. If we move past the validity of offering small samples of 'store only' goods on a random lottery; what we have is a slot machine with unique payouts that costs a currency. People who actually use this feature are doing it for the chance at whatever buff(s) it is they're hoping for, not a paltry sum of XP.

    If you want people to buy Hobbit presents, make the actual 'payouts' from the lottery of enough value that people will want to pay the MC for them.

    If you want people to pay money (TP, MC, w/e) to level more quickly and don't think the already offered XP bonus schemes are enough, let people buy a level, or offer more options with the gift of the valar say letting you auto-level to 50, 60, 65, 75, 85 (I'd very seriously consider buying it if it brought you to lvl 85 with pre-HD unlocks taken care of for 5k TP).
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    We get IXP runes... and sometimes +100% XP tomes. However, those are all optional to use. I should know... I have a lot of them collecting dust in my vault!
    That's what I thought (and I have the same problem!). So adding another one to the gift pool wouldn't be necessary.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBelle0927 View Post
    Don't we get account-bound XP tomes as a Hobbit Present reward already? I'm pretty sure I got one from a Hobbit Present the other day, because I sure didn't get, much less open, any lootboxes during the past couple of lootbox weekends. *looks rueful*
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    We get IXP runes... and sometimes +100% XP tomes. However, those are all optional to use. I should know... I have a lot of them collecting dust in my vault!
    And I don't think any of the items in there now just give immediate character XP. (If there are, I've never gotten them.) Closest is the enhanced XP supply.
    I was just saying, if they are bound and determined to make this move, adding it as an item rather than just giving the XP to the character would at least give a player the choice of using it or not.

  15. #15
    Well you asked for honest, constructive and calm so here goes.

    Honestly I think its a bad move to put xp into daily presents and even worse this has a link via mithril coins to purchasing xp from the store, second it is yet another way to force xp onto us which we did not ask for (in fact I believe its been very much asked against to have more xp forced on us) which in turn pushes people towards purchasing the xp disabler which is the only way to avoid this forced xp.

    Constructively, I would like to see all non quest xp as an optional toggle (an option that does not need to be bought in the store) people who still find levelling too fast via quest xp, which is easily done will still buy the disabler but those who wish to level as normal will be able to turn off the xp from crafting, bonus weekends and now the hobbit presents without being forced to buy the disabler.

    Calmly, I will suggest that you do not attempt to sneak these things into the game in the future, this is something that without the slightest doubt should have been in the build notes at the very least and should have been in some sort of dev diary so it could have been discussed by the community before its addition, secondly locking the original thread without a word as to why, when there was a discussion occurring as to whether or not this was a bug was a very very poor move, as of late it has been pointed out your attempts at communicating with the players is getting better, this whole episode does not enforce that in fact it highlights some of the major complaints a lot of people have had with yourselves of late if you are really sincere in your efforts to improve communication with us, this kind of thing needs to stop.

    EDIT
    as a reinforce to an earlier question, I would really like to hear the reasons as to why this was implemented, what is the reasoning behind it? if we knew why, we may agree with it, either way it would be nice to know what the thought process was to get to this point.
    Last edited by bobbylobs; Mar 24 2014 at 04:40 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehleyr View Post
    Hobbit Presents granting XP is in fact By Design.

    By all means, please provide your feedback on this. As always, keep it constructive, honest, and calm.
    I am sorry but I really hate this idea and I hope that you have enough sense to realise that it is doing nothing to prevent the current image of gambling that Hobbit Presents provide. I have 4 accounts set up for my nieces and nephews to play when they come and visit and I will be honest the initial Hobbit Presents made me wonder if this game was promoting the wrong idea, now with this added "incentive" I will find them another game to play.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skallolf View Post
    I am sorry but I really hate this idea and I hope that you have enough sense to realise that it is doing nothing to prevent the current image of gambling that Hobbit Presents provide. I have 4 accounts set up for my nieces and nephews to play when they come and visit and I will be honest the initial Hobbit Presents made me wonder if this game was promoting the wrong idea, now with this added "incentive" I will find them another game to play.
    As the Grandfather of these Nieces and Nephews, I would like to add my voice to this as well. I sincerely hope that you do not make this feature live as it really does encourage the gambling side of things more than you already do. I hope that this is not the image you would like to promote to your player's.

  18. #18
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    With the other threads closed, can the title of this one be changed to reflect the topic more accurately? I think it is good to have a discussion on this, I just don't know whether "Asking for Official Response" is descriptive enough for this to be the chosen thread for that discussion.

    Thanks.

  19. #19
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    Awarding XP for doing something that is part of the meta-game? No thanks. Let's keep XP being earned for in-game activities only please.

    However, I am interested to know what the overall intended goal behind this decision is.
    It must be your PC...

  20. #20
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    I have to agree that I dislike the addition of XP from Hobbit Presents. The game already has so many ways to gain XP. Killing Mobs, Region Question, Epic Questing, Festival Question, Deeding, Crafting and Tasks. In fact there are so many methods to gaining XP that the player base demanding to have an XP Disabling Item which got added into the store. So why are we adding another element upon which we are gaining experience?

  21. #21
    I don't have time to join the BR testing just now, but I am curious if anyone has tested to see if the XP disabler does indeed prevent the XP gain from this action, as it should.

    As far as my two copper, I agree that getting XP just for opening a present is a bad precedent. Will we start getting XP for talking to a bard soon? Opening a festival present? Or renting a steed from a stablemaster? Etc. Etc.

    From the broadest possible perspective, I can see why any action could trigger XP, but if this is a new development direction, then ALL xp gain would need to be tweaked if one can gain XP from even seemingly mundane tasks that are a step above automatically breathing.

    Even though I'm an avid Tortoise Stone buyer, I can see how others would feel this is yet another step closer to forcing the purchase if someone isn't on the "I NEED TO BE AT CAP NOW" bandwagon. I agree that there are too many forced gains already, so why another is being added I honestly cannot say.
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  22. #22
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    My opinion on this change:

    Ultimately pointless. There are already lots of ways of getting XP, the presents give very little comparitively. Most people won't notice, and even if people do there's really nothing to get worked up about, positively OR negatively.

    This might sound overly harsh, I just don't think it was needed, but if it goes to Live it's basically harmless IMO.

  23. #23
    I vote 'no'.

    The original hobbit presents mechanic was designed to take advantage of a flaw in the limbic system (reward centers) of the brain to motivate repetitive behavior that generates a reward. In extreme cases, these are the features of the brain that are involved in gambling addiction. Quite obviously, Turbine is seeking to amplify the effects by providing an added jolt to the limbic system by awarding XP alongside the present. Thus, doubly reinforcing the effect of selecting hobbit presents, increasing the number of people it can get hooked on this mechanic in order to harvest the profits of addictive behavior - particularly in children and adolescents.

    I would be surprised if a company as large as WB is not fully aware of the scientific research done on these types of systems and their effects on brain structure and, consequently, on behavior.
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  24. #24
    A. This is awful. Granting XP for spending Mithril Coins is antithetical to the spirit of the Lord of the Rings Online.

    B. Putting an alert on the screen that cannot be removed without accepting free XP is also antithetical to the spirit of the game.

    C. The hobbit presents were already awful without this new feature. The ability to spend Mithril Coins on extra spins is antithetical to the spirit of the Lord of the Rings Online. The slot-machine animation is tasteless.

    D. Here are my suggestions, which are not all compatible with each other, but each is an improvement on the status quo, in my opinion:

    1. Allow players to disable Hobbit Presents in their options panel so they never have to see the alert if they don't want to see it.
    2. Allow players to disable the ability to spend Mithril Coins.
    3. Remove the ability of players to spend Mithril Coins on Hobbit Presents.
    4. Remove the XP feature from Hobbit Presents.
    5. Remove Hobbit Presents from the game entirely.
    6. Remove Mithril Coins from the game entirely.

    My preferred options would be a combination of 5 and 6.
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  25. #25
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    Red face TY for the prompt reply, sorry this won't be brief.

    Nicely typed out and clear question TheCrossbow. And even a quick prompt answer from the Kehleyr. Wether I like the answer or not, I am appreciative of it's promptness, and straightforwardness.

    Forced myself to log into the forums yet again... (I really dislike having to do this every day, so for the most part I just don't anymore. I'm still playin' the game, listening to the grumps, the questions, the answers, the happenings (forums or in-game), and the occasional YAY moments I get to revel in, if only briefly.)... so that I might just comment with a simple "Eww, do not want."

    Was going to leave it at that for feedback, but felt it was way too lacking, and sorry for wot may likely rival a novella. As much as I am against this tweak, I figure that I am probably in some minority # of folks who dislike excess XP, and refuse to "race" to the cap. (HD got me to 95 way too fast, and I'm not even done with the Epic. My chosen HD leveling/epic story buddy (also a lifetimer, so he could/can return at any time) has quit the game for now.

    This tweak to hobbit Gifts feature, likely won't effect my most commonly played characters. Because, [1] It seems that I often forget to pick up my gold weekly hobbit gift. 'Cause I save it for one of my XP disabled characters, who CAN use the gear it gives. But when I forget to even log on that character, the gift goes to waste for yet another week. So if XP is added, [2] it won't even be a noticeable effect on those of my no XP allowed characters.

    However, when I visit another server, every ounce of XP thrown at them causes them to outlevel the stuff they should be working/questing/crafting on. Virtues are the one bane of my existence, between getting bored before I can finish one, or there being too much XP from all of the required kills... The lack of virtue completions are the one thing that would pretty much bar any of my characters from ever becoming endgame characters on my "visited" servers.

    Just maybe... my personal distaste comes from me having lifetime VIP. so Sorry in advance, /surrender.
    My chars already get (what I feel is) bloated amounts of XP (via daily blue bar & crafting) that are Unintentionally power-leveling MY low alt characters beyond the areas that they were "supposed to be" questing at. I've given up on my seemingly bipolar fight against XP bloat (Leveling up is fun and provides me some satisfaction and maybe a new passive or skill, but Out-leveling a questing/quest Deed region isn't really cool at all.) XP bloat isn't going away. My minstrel and captain have already leveled up FASTER THAN I CAN LEARN THEM!!! (sorry, lost my calm there...) XP disabling Every ONE of my characters at different level strips of the game, is what I would love to do.
    That said, personally, I find the cost (sale or non-sale) of XP disablers has been a bit prohibitive (not to forget the distastefully high, per character warsteed colour prices, that I just cannot abide purchasing, no matter how much I want to support Lotro's Art Dept). It's just enough to bum me out. I've got too many characters started to even consider XP disabling them each for my own leisurely leveling pace. (I have 3 chars disabled on my main *jingle jangle* server. for: GA, Moria/Mirkwood, and Rift/SoA leveled content.)

    I've only gotten one character to current cap (not counting my beloved, somewhat neglected, but not entirely... wargie). My elven LM, my mostest favourite character to play. I know/knew her skills (with exception of some HD changes to yellow line that upset her love for Ancient Master traitline greatly) in and out. Perhaps someday I'd like to learn my upcoming captain or minstrel as well, but shoving so much XP at them to speed them to through levels doesn't really let me experience their ups and downs of landscape/instances. But again, I'm conflicted. I would sort of like to play them at endgame, yet at the same time, would rather enjoy their journey through middle-earth. For me, it's been approximately seven to eight years in these lands and I still am running around getting losted in old and new content. (Weird how the memory works or doesn't when it darn well wants to work or not.)

    It's doubtful that my little grump against this will help, nor hinder this tweak. Just letting ya know I have a beef with "more XP for the sake of giving out more XP". I did find the youtube video of this discovery a bit on the extreme side, but it did illustrate the change, so Thank you Elantari for bringing it to light. I don't know if there exists a single person who would ever paiz that much Mithril Coin thru the nose just to level from 1-10 inside the starter instance. Since it is indeed confirmed, I'll just close with an apathetic shrug, a "Wot'ever..." eyeroll, then carry on putting up with my Lotro induced firstworldproblems#. *wanders off with the song I Will Survive running thru her head.*

    edit: Bah. I drafted this hours ago, but had to leave and return. I see there's already some feedback pretty much covering my thoughts. I agree with previous posters that giving XP just for spinning a hobbit wheel doesn't really seem necessary, but it isn't going to kill me. But it is gonna kill me if you give me XP for just hitting the submit reply button. *kiddin'... sort of...*
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