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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Balance from open minded creeps

    Id like to get opinions for creeps who are open minded , no tunnel vision on what would make them see more balance brought to the moors from


    1. What needs to be done with freep side

    2. what classes can be left alone

    4. how much they need to be nerfed

    5. what classes need love



    Also when it comes to creep side and being open minded.....

    1. what creeps need love

    2. what ones dont need to be touched

    3. any creep classes that have over the top skills that need nerf

    4. Any other improvements with buffs/keeps/overall view of the moors



    would love some honestly, non bias replies if possible and i'll follow up with what i have come up with and also anyone can answer this but it would really be nice hearing from some high ranks who have lived through it all and have seen the changes instead of hearing from someone whos played a couple of months of these bad times.








    thanks
    Last edited by LEGENDofALL; Mar 13 2014 at 04:25 PM.
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  2. #2
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    Freeps:
    -Nerf all mits,resistance,finesse stats/ or buff creep dps/finesse
    -Remove or nerf silly traits like cappy/guards has (bubble reset etc.)

    Creeps:
    -Nerf orc craft/fell wrought dmg types
    -Bring all creeps to respectable amount of dps dealt (fotm reaver hitting half hp bar with impale x spider hitting 200 dmg on devs.)

    And that's basically all, atm it's all about creep outdated lol stats vs freep capped/ ridiculously high

    imo
    [URL=http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/phx4everCZ/media/staenyacute%20soubor_zps6e4l16tx.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1360.photobucket.com/albums/r660/phx4everCZ/staenyacute%20soubor_zps6e4l16tx.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

  3. #3
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    My Warg is only r8 but I've been playing both creepside and freepside since near the beginning of RoI. I played a little bit of creep prior to RoI but not a whole lot to say I remember what those days were like. These following responses are all in my own personal opinion.

    1. Biggest problem I see is freep heals. They are downright ridiculous. I haven't seen 1 WL or Defiler heal as well as the average Minstrel/RK I see now. Not even close.

    2. I think all classes needs to have some features nerfed. So really no classes can be left out of this.

    3. Guardian - I find their bleeds to be a little ridiculous. I've met some somewhat-competent Guards and they did very well on their own without using the bleeds.
    Captain - The whole yellow line and Shield of the Dunedain thing is really stupid. From my experience, I've seen some Captains out-heal even defilers on my server.
    RK - Epic Conclusion bleed. Epic Conclusion is an already powerful skill, why add even more features to it that makes it more powerful? Also tone down the heals just a bit. Their AoE bubble hits those who aren't even in the fellowship/raid. (At least from what I've been told/seen/experienced.)
    Lore-Master - For the most part I'm OK with the LM except their un-pottable DoTs. Water Lore could be toned down a bit too.
    Champ - Also in a good spot. Granted I haven't played a Champ since beginning of RoR so I don't know how much they've changed.
    Warden - Either A.) make the bleeds pottable; or B.) make Light damage bleeds less powerful; or C.) both. Also the fact that with a little patience, Wardens can get off two Never Surrenders in seconds. I find this to be a little type of a loophole exploiting the system. (Not saying it is an exploit.)
    Burglar - Reduce the damage from Coup de Grace.
    Minstrel - Since when can a heal-oriented class hit harder than DPS classes? Even in DPS traits, they can heal for more than Defilers.
    Hunter - They seem to be in a good spot. Pretty much the same thing as Champions; haven't played one recently to know the changes.

    4. What classes need love? None, really.

    5. Creep classes that need buffing? Spiders and Defilers immediately jump out in front. Weaver's Acid damage really sucks because most freeps find their mitigations/resistance capped very easily. Defilers healing really needs a boost. If Defilers get a healing boost, they're what I think Minstrels should be like: low DPS but very good healing.

    6. I think Reavers, Wargs, and BAs are in a decent spot. They have some skills that offset some things that goes against them. I'm not really sure as to what I think on the WL.

    7. For Wargs, I believe that they should have the CD on Disappear and Sprint to be longer. 90 seconds with the trait is over the top. But since they're so squishy, they don't need a HUGE time increase on the CD. With Reavers I would like to see Impale lowered a bit. Wrath, AtO, and Dev Strike I rather like. I wish Reavers would use Dying Rage more. BAs don't need a whole lot to change. Maybe reduce their VT by 5% damage.

    8. As to overall conditions of the Moors, get rid of the stupid outposts physical/tactical mastery boosts. Make the NPCs hit harder. I remember when fighting creeps/freeps with the NPCs trying to kill you very dangerous. If the outposts have such a big impact on damage, at least make them farther away from the revival spots so we don't get ROP<->Lugz rezz and Iop<->TR rezz fights.

    To reiterate, these are my personal opinions on what should be done.

  4. #4
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    1) Scale down freep healing...alot.

    2) Scale up defiler healing

    3) Fix yellow line cappies, they're just broken.

    4) Reduce all freepside bleeds, especially wardens

    5) Increase creep finesse.

    6) Balance impale to be effective verse freep healing. (IE if healing is reduce so should impale)

    7) Give hunter more defensive abilities

    8) Give DPS RKs more defensive abilities/healing

    9) Increase spider DPS by 15-20%

    10) Give defilers a DPS build that makes sense (low heals/high damage)
    "...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by themannweb View Post
    My Warg is only r8 but I've been playing both creepside and freepside since near the beginning of RoI. I played a little bit of creep prior to RoI but not a whole lot to say I remember what those days were like. These following responses are all in my own personal opinion.

    1. Biggest problem I see is freep heals. They are downright ridiculous. I haven't seen 1 WL or Defiler heal as well as the average Minstrel/RK I see now. Not even close.

    2. I think all classes needs to have some features nerfed. So really no classes can be left out of this.

    3. Guardian - I find their bleeds to be a little ridiculous. I've met some somewhat-competent Guards and they did very well on their own without using the bleeds.
    Captain - The whole yellow line and Shield of the Dunedain thing is really stupid. From my experience, I've seen some Captains out-heal even defilers on my server.
    RK - Epic Conclusion bleed. Epic Conclusion is an already powerful skill, why add even more features to it that makes it more powerful? Also tone down the heals just a bit. Their AoE bubble hits those who aren't even in the fellowship/raid. (At least from what I've been told/seen/experienced.)
    Lore-Master - For the most part I'm OK with the LM except their un-pottable DoTs. Water Lore could be toned down a bit too.
    Champ - Also in a good spot. Granted I haven't played a Champ since beginning of RoR so I don't know how much they've changed.
    Warden - Either A.) make the bleeds pottable; or B.) make Light damage bleeds less powerful; or C.) both. Also the fact that with a little patience, Wardens can get off two Never Surrenders in seconds. I find this to be a little type of a loophole exploiting the system. (Not saying it is an exploit.)
    Burglar - Reduce the damage from Coup de Grace.
    Minstrel - Since when can a heal-oriented class hit harder than DPS classes? Even in DPS traits, they can heal for more than Defilers.
    Hunter - They seem to be in a good spot. Pretty much the same thing as Champions; haven't played one recently to know the changes.

    4. What classes need love? None, really.

    5. Creep classes that need buffing? Spiders and Defilers immediately jump out in front. Weaver's Acid damage really sucks because most freeps find their mitigations/resistance capped very easily. Defilers healing really needs a boost. If Defilers get a healing boost, they're what I think Minstrels should be like: low DPS but very good healing.

    6. I think Reavers, Wargs, and BAs are in a decent spot. They have some skills that offset some things that goes against them. I'm not really sure as to what I think on the WL.

    7. For Wargs, I believe that they should have the CD on Disappear and Sprint to be longer. 90 seconds with the trait is over the top. But since they're so squishy, they don't need a HUGE time increase on the CD. With Reavers I would like to see Impale lowered a bit. Wrath, AtO, and Dev Strike I rather like. I wish Reavers would use Dying Rage more. BAs don't need a whole lot to change. Maybe reduce their VT by 5% damage.

    8. As to overall conditions of the Moors, get rid of the stupid outposts physical/tactical mastery boosts. Make the NPCs hit harder. I remember when fighting creeps/freeps with the NPCs trying to kill you very dangerous. If the outposts have such a big impact on damage, at least make them farther away from the revival spots so we don't get ROP<->Lugz rezz and Iop<->TR rezz fights.

    To reiterate, these are my personal opinions on what should be done.

    That was nicely done thanks love the feed back
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  6. #6
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    Freeps

    1. Captains this should be the first nerf of any class, living longer then most is fine but they have when so over the top its a joke, no class should survive againt numbers regardless of the class

    2. cant really comment on champs

    3. Minnys DPS redline mixed with their ability to heal should never happen , tone down the dps in red line

    4. Rks dots are OP and need scaled down while their ability to survive needs to go up some while traited yellow or red better self heals

    5. Guardians bleeds are my only issue which they needs also to be less OP

    6. Burgs dont play one cant really comment

    7. Wardens damage/bleeds are over the top they needs a massive scale back but not to the point of losing its affect

    8. Hunters need better surviabilty also lose the ability to 2 shot a creep

    9 Lms(my class) Put a CD on silence since its affect can cripple a WL(though only two on my server use it) but not to the point of making it useless, dots could use a little nerf, WL is perfectly fine and i know some will disagree but since they have so many inductions i think its a wash. Id like to see less induction time, SI with a longer duration and shorter CD(a happy medium not back to old) . make Lms more effect with CC and bring back Windlore to counter those nasty Ba's. I know alot of people dont like sic um but honestly besides the pest the LM really lose a ton of DPS and since turbine has scaled back the damage its better now.

    Creeps

    1. Defilers omg fits their healing ability and no i dont think they need dps like a minny no class has to mirror each other

    2. WL personally dont see any problem with them

    3. Ba's same dont see any problem with them though others complain about VT/revenge and theyre pretty much dead

    4. Wargs while i know they blow up fast i think their dps to freeps health ratio is a little over the top and honestly light armours and some mediums dont have much of a shot against good wargs. dont blow them up just scale back the dps some. Hips/sprint Cds for sure need a increase since wargs can basically decide if they feel like dying or not.

    5. Weaver are probably the first class of all classes that need love, dot damage is a joke, WTE still broken and their pets blow up in seconds maybe incombat pets should be allowed for them too but put the timer on the heal, fix the dot damage and WTE and i think they will be fine.

    6. Reavers this is probably the one class i think needs nerfed creep side and its basically just impale. Most creeps wont survive outside of heavy armour against a Reaver because of the bleeds/impale damage vs Freeps health to damage taken ratio. sorry needs scaled back based on that alone.


    Moors fixing

    1. Combat logging need i say more

    2. Wishful think lose the store and go back to tradition

    3. Give creeps all skills at r0 but scale them based on rank and the effect they have

    4. Fix the auto flips

    5. Npc damage needs to be increase by 5

    6. OPs if you keep them make them 5 times harder to take

    7. keep takes and resetting, make any npc around and in the keep not reset so you must either kill all or kill the cg/tyrant with them on you as in if you go up and a warg or burg hips make them automatically get called to the room

    8. put the door back on the flag room and also bring back the kill the CG/tyrant and flip the flag some of the best fights ive seen was in the flag room

    9. ad a CD on the back door for going in and out

    10. Gains for both sides while i know low ranks and some other like the fact they rank so fast i myself feel we are getting to much gains for the kills we get so basically make those gaining keeps and delving buffs worth less

    11. my personal favorite give freeps maps and a faster run buff and lose the horses in the moors(yes im wishing and id trade in my horse anytime for those)

    12. This is a grey area to me but remove the ability to box in the moors, allow it in pve where it general doesnt affect anyone but in some degree its kinda griefing a person when its you against 6/8/10 or whatever the number is. Im sure creeps wouldnt like to see 8 wardens or 8 minnys on one kill to blow up anything in site as i feel the freeps feel the same way.

    13. Make rank mean something again for both sides give creeps something special something you can buy or get from a lot box, something over the top....give freeps the same thing too , they once gave them special armour you could only put together based on rank.

    14. ON buff this my friends could be so usefully if it was done properly when one side is outnumber. Increase damage greatly not just a little, health boost, less damage taken, lose Ops on the numbers side and gain Ops on the ON side.

    15. One shotters, personally i think they could add a few and make them more range and wider to give more room to leave,flank etc.....

    16. Fix the gates so once the relics are taken the gate closes within a min so the other cant be ninja'd

    17. move the rez away from oc/ec so we can lose gankers and campers and not give them a fall back safe zone.

    18. Few Ops need moved to away from the rez

    19. Bring back the hot spots, always great fight with big trolls and freep npcs in the middle of no where.


    these are my views and my views alone and how i see it.


    thanks a ton
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    There are open minded creeps?
    ~Nimolas R11 Warden (Retired before RoR) (Snowbourn)

    ~Eralwen R10 hunter

  8. #8
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGENDofALL View Post
    Freeps

    1. Captains this should be the first nerf of any class, living longer then most is fine but they have when so over the top its a joke, no class should survive againt numbers regardless of the class

    2. cant really comment on champs

    3. Minnys DPS redline mixed with their ability to heal should never happen , tone down the dps in red line

    4. Rks dots are OP and need scaled down while their ability to survive needs to go up some while traited yellow or red better self heals

    5. Guardians bleeds are my only issue which they needs also to be less OP

    6. Burgs dont play one cant really comment

    7. Wardens damage/bleeds are over the top they needs a massive scale back but not to the point of losing its affect

    8. Hunters need better surviabilty also lose the ability to 2 shot a creep

    9 Lms(my class) Put a CD on silence since its affect can cripple a WL(though only two on my server use it) but not to the point of making it useless, dots could use a little nerf, WL is perfectly fine and i know some will disagree but since they have so many inductions i think its a wash. Id like to see less induction time, SI with a longer duration and shorter CD(a happy medium not back to old) . make Lms more effect with CC and bring back Windlore to counter those nasty Ba's. I know alot of people dont like sic um but honestly besides the pest the LM really lose a ton of DPS and since turbine has scaled back the damage its better now.

    Creeps

    1. Defilers omg fits their healing ability and no i dont think they need dps like a minny no class has to mirror each other

    2. WL personally dont see any problem with them

    3. Ba's same dont see any problem with them though others complain about VT/revenge and theyre pretty much dead

    4. Wargs while i know they blow up fast i think their dps to freeps health ratio is a little over the top and honestly light armours and some mediums dont have much of a shot against good wargs. dont blow them up just scale back the dps some. Hips/sprint Cds for sure need a increase since wargs can basically decide if they feel like dying or not.

    5. Weaver are probably the first class of all classes that need love, dot damage is a joke, WTE still broken and their pets blow up in seconds maybe incombat pets should be allowed for them too but put the timer on the heal, fix the dot damage and WTE and i think they will be fine.

    6. Reavers this is probably the one class i think needs nerfed creep side and its basically just impale. Most creeps wont survive outside of heavy armour against a Reaver because of the bleeds/impale damage vs Freeps health to damage taken ratio. sorry needs scaled back based on that alone.


    Moors fixing

    1. Combat logging need i say more

    2. Wishful think lose the store and go back to tradition

    3. Give creeps all skills at r0 but scale them based on rank and the effect they have

    4. Fix the auto flips

    5. Npc damage needs to be increase by 5

    6. OPs if you keep them make them 5 times harder to take

    7. keep takes and resetting, make any npc around and in the keep not reset so you must either kill all or kill the cg/tyrant with them on you as in if you go up and a warg or burg hips make them automatically get called to the room

    8. put the door back on the flag room and also bring back the kill the CG/tyrant and flip the flag some of the best fights ive seen was in the flag room

    9. ad a CD on the back door for going in and out

    10. Gains for both sides while i know low ranks and some other like the fact they rank so fast i myself feel we are getting to much gains for the kills we get so basically make those gaining keeps and delving buffs worth less

    11. my personal favorite give freeps maps and a faster run buff and lose the horses in the moors(yes im wishing and id trade in my horse anytime for those)

    12. This is a grey area to me but remove the ability to box in the moors, allow it in pve where it general doesnt affect anyone but in some degree its kinda griefing a person when its you against 6/8/10 or whatever the number is. Im sure creeps wouldnt like to see 8 wardens or 8 minnys on one kill to blow up anything in site as i feel the freeps feel the same way.

    13. Make rank mean something again for both sides give creeps something special something you can buy or get from a lot box, something over the top....give freeps the same thing too , they once gave them special armour you could only put together based on rank.

    14. ON buff this my friends could be so usefully if it was done properly when one side is outnumber. Increase damage greatly not just a little, health boost, less damage taken, lose Ops on the numbers side and gain Ops on the ON side.

    15. One shotters, personally i think they could add a few and make them more range and wider to give more room to leave,flank etc.....

    16. Fix the gates so once the relics are taken the gate closes within a min so the other cant be ninja'd

    17. move the rez away from oc/ec so we can lose gankers and campers and not give them a fall back safe zone.

    18. Few Ops need moved to away from the rez

    19. Bring back the hot spots, always great fight with big trolls and freep npcs in the middle of no where.


    these are my views and my views alone and how i see it.


    thanks a ton
    The good news is that they've taken your feedback on the warden bleeds being over the top and made more of them AOE.

    In all seriousness, I await Desolates or someone else who knows what they're talking about getting on this and telling me how screwed it is:

    Power Attack, Mighty Blow, and Unerring Strike Bleeds now deal more damage
    Vicious Offence versions of Power Attack, Mighty Blow, and Unerring Strike will now inherit weapon damage
    Goad max targets increased from 3-->5
    Brink of Victory is now an AoE skill which affects up to 10 targets
    Surety of Death is now an AoE skill, affecting up to 6 targets
    Desolation now affects up to 5 targets
    War-cry, Brink of Victory, Surety of Death, and Desolation have had their damage values re-balanced, with each Gambit dealing more damage than that last in sequence.
    The Eastemnet Heart of the Spear Carving should now reduce Power costs of Spear Masteries


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  9. #9
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    Seen some of the update notes i see they didnt nothing about combat logging
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGENDofALL View Post
    Id like to get opinions for creeps who are open minded , no tunnel vision on what would make them see more balance brought to the moors from


    1. What needs to be done with freep side

    2. what classes can be left alone

    4. how much they need to be nerfed

    5. what classes need love



    Also when it comes to creep side and being open minded.....

    1. what creeps need love

    2. what ones dont need to be touched

    3. any creep classes that have over the top skills that need nerf

    4. Any other improvements with buffs/keeps/overall view of the moors
    I won't comment on what needs to be done freepside as something of that magnitude is irrelevant with today's development timeline. Here is my perspective regarding the current state of the ettenmoors, particularly freepside. The major issues that I find revolve around overhealing. Currently the class combination of a Leader-Of-Men Captain(s) and any Heal Specced Minstrel, with the proper legacies is creating a daunting situation for creeps and developers.

    Consider this; every 30s the primary healer on freepside can be temporarily removed from combat with no penalty other than the lack of healing - Feign Death. If you are legacied and traited right, along with a yellow line captain actively using Shield Brother and Shield of the Dunedain, there is no reason for a minstrel to die, unless the rest of the group or raid is already dead. For hobbit minstrels the problem only gets worse with the addition of a racial flop, allowing you to effectively chain feign death 3 times in succession. In my opinion, I would rather have hunters Desperate Flight restored in combat than have to deal with minstrel feign death. Mostly because it takes them out of the fight temporarily, instead of permanently.

    Additionally I find that AoE Bolster has no place in the ettenmoors and is elevating lower skilled players to the position of overpowered healers. To counter such antics you require incredible burst DPS in the form of Impale, or consequently chain CC/Flayer root to effectively slaughter a minstrel. When you factor in Target-Forward-Healing minstrels (often 4-7 on Brandywine) you find that regardless of how well you time Flayer Root, Impale, or Topple you won't even scratch a minstrel unless they are significantly lagging, along with their spam healing counterparts. What this translates to is a complete power shift in lower number skirmishes or encounters, and 1v1's being completely one sided based on class matchup.

    In terms of what classes need nerfed, I think small tweaks are in order for Burglar burst DPS (Aim CDG FB), Guardian heal procs on crits, Warden heals/Never surrender, and Leader of Men Captains. Additionally in a RvR setting Lore-Masters are completely out of whack. Massive AoE hot spot DPS and Tar combined with the overwhelming amount of AoE CC freeps have in general allows freeps to completely dominate a fight based on terrain. Obviously Red-Line champs are an utter joke, and I think that Rune-Keeper healing could use some tweaking.

    As for creepside, there are some blatantly glaring issues, such as the idiotically short cooldowns on Warg escape skills. I literally NEVER have to stick around in any encounter on my solo/small group warg. I don't even have to wait on cooldowns, they are always available. Impale does need to be adjusted, though only in tandem with a DPS boost to other reaver skills and a toning down of minstrel heals. Defilers certainly need help, though fortunately blight affords enough utility for them to be considered somewhat viable.

    Now we come to spiders. Why even bother anymore? They got hit the hardest by the introduction of Audacity (CC), the changes to mitigation and stat caps, and the currently broken Web the Earth.

    Additionally I think the Ettenmoors is drastically in need of buff consolidation. If I have 4 outposts, why can't they simply show an outpost tier 4 buff? Adding in the constantly changing icons for every delving buff, keep buff, and outpost buff has increased lag exponentially. Additionally I think that multiple applications of a skill from different players (IE defiler hots, etc) should be consolidated to reduce targeting lag. Switching targets to a player with every store, keep, outpost, food, captain, and minstrel buff active often equates to 4-5 rows of constantly changing buffs and lags out a tremendous amount of the population.

    /wall of text.

  11. #11
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    Solid Post Hurth and the last part i really didnt think about but youre right thats got to be a large part of the lag in the moors, something they really should look at.
    Last edited by LEGENDofALL; Mar 16 2014 at 01:32 PM.
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  12. #12
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    I'll add my input from a freep perspective that's been working on her warleader lately to follow Xiox.

    Overhealing is a big issue that does need to be addressed on freepside. Sometimes it feels like it's the only counter needed to be able to handle the multitude of creeps that can show up for a fight but that can be referenced back to the numbers game which Brandywagon is a frequent contributor to. It also becomes the Catch 22 - We wouldn't need so many creeps to kill them if there wasn't overhealing and then the overhealing is needed because there's so many creeps and so forth.

    Minstrel feign does need an increased cooldown. But this is also the class that gets a lot of focus these days because of their role in making it difficult for creeps to manage kills. It's the work hazard we tend to receive due to the job we're tasked with. I'd go on further about the crusade but that's not the topic at hand and I doubt I'll have many sympathizers with my feelings as a minstrel.

    Target Forward Healing seems to be the latest term used to complain about along with macros. I will defend this use as it's a way to counter lag. As Xiox addressed, consolidating many of those unnecessary buffs can help reduce the 'flickering' as I see on the screen when I target a buff-buddy and subsequently lag out. There are just certain players I can't target knowing what they do to my machine and therefore making it difficult to get my job done. What better way to still get to heal in these lag situations than to use the known target caller on the other side to still be able to manage some damage control through them. I know targeting for DPS also puts people at a disadvantage as these buff glitches can make it difficult to gauge what buffs the person has and whether to go to the next target. Does that make people lazy in doing the target forwarding? Yes, but I see them as more justified than a cheap tactic of using a mechanic in the game. This is a beaten horse issue and likely will be debated over further. Also it's hard to determine the chicken-egg in this situation too cause I'm not sure who started the problem to where the other side now tells their healers to target forward. There's also a handful of counters for creeps to avoid the target forwarding. Some clever, some not as much. And in the even there's multiple targets going down it obviously strains the healers beyond their abilities, even with AoE bolster spam.

    Defilers do need their buffs. Blight keeps them viable in raid settings but their HoTs are lacking. I'll wait to see how U13 handles with the change in stats for creeps that will lower some DPS from freepside and determine from there how much of a boost is needed for defilers. It is kind of strange to have a health pot to heal more than your actual creep healers however.

    WLs need a third single target heal to put in to their rotation. I find myself sitting there with nothing to do half the time and when I'm cross healing in groups I find it's lacking in the event of AoEs from freepside. Also increasing the healing range on warleaders will be fantastic. I have been yelling at people to stop getting out of Quitters range but it can't be helped with the leaders are telling them to 'spread out' to alleviate AoEs. With the upcoming AoE warden bleeds we're going to see some issues with maintaining multiple target heals in fights. The adjusted stats will help and I'll likely be improving my facetanking on my warleader until Oathies are put on me. Then I just drop on the floor like a bowl of beets.

    Spider CC can be unbearable in certain settings. The traited daze won't be broken save for a pot but in instances of extreme lag the time it takes to pot and shake it off lasts just about the same time you're locked down anyway. I'd certainly trade for higher DPS on a spider than other skills but seeing as I haven't played mine in a long time what recommendations I have are limited in knowledge. I just know as a minstrel I hate the higher rank ones that pick on me in a raid.

    Personal feelings about wargs is just increasing cooldowns on certain skills. Escape I can deal with and now that hunters will be able to track them again we'll see less wargs lurking out to be an annoyance at 1v1 circles. I think it's the Eye Gouge rotation that has allowed wargs to cycle through a pattern which outputs some high DPS which is most frustrating for me. Someone said it best on the forums once in regards to comparing the DPS with their champion, stating something about '75% of my DPS but I don't have 75% of the warg's morale.' We'll see how wargs stand when changes go live with U13 and revisit this class.

    The last thing to note is that we've moved away from Turbine's original plan that it was to take a mass of creeps to defeat a freep but the idea of a 1:1 balance will never be achievable. Brandywagon's community differs from most other servers just because of its size and changes made to improve smaller settings will resonate deeply with the RvR players here. We can make attempts to deter the zerg settings but players have the tendency to converge on one spot on the map and adding to the lag. I certainly want to be able to small group and do more than just one skill of a bolster bot. And I can do that at times where I'll notice the disparity as far as 'balance' is but in RvR my feelings are different with any proposed changes knowing the impact it has.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    As for creepside, there are some blatantly glaring issues, such as the idiotically short cooldowns on Warg escape skills.
    I agree about the CD on disappear. At 1.5 minutes it is too low. However I do not think sprint should be considered an 'escape' skill. For a melee class like a warg, it is pretty much the only chance to dismount a freep that is on a horse. I play a WL when on creep side and there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a freep on a horse, just to see him run away with no chance of dismounting him. Classes like spiders and BAs have ranged skills to dismount. Melee classes like reavers and wargs need sprint on short CDs to have a chance at doing the same. Defilers and WLs aren't going dismount anything on a horse.
    Used to be known as Zedred - Runekeeper - Windfola

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    The good news is that they've taken your feedback on the warden bleeds being over the top and made more of them AOE.

    In all seriousness, I await Desolates or someone else who knows what they're talking about getting on this and telling me how screwed it is:
    You need someone else to tell you? ^^ Those changes are simply stupid. Gg Turbine.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post





    Additionally I think the Ettenmoors is drastically in need of buff consolidation.

    ^ Agreed




    12345
    Ridduk R14 WL
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Familiarity View Post
    Target Forward Healing seems to be the latest term used to complain about along with macros. I will defend this use as it's a way to counter lag. As Xiox addressed, consolidating many of those unnecessary buffs can help reduce the 'flickering' as I see on the screen when I target a buff-buddy and subsequently lag out. There are just certain players I can't target knowing what they do to my machine and therefore making it difficult to get my job done. What better way to still get to heal in these lag situations than to use the known target caller on the other side to still be able to manage some damage control through them. I know targeting for DPS also puts people at a disadvantage as these buff glitches can make it difficult to gauge what buffs the person has and whether to go to the next target. Does that make people lazy in doing the target forwarding? Yes, but I see them as more justified than a cheap tactic of using a mechanic in the game. This is a beaten horse issue and likely will be debated over further. Also it's hard to determine the chicken-egg in this situation too cause I'm not sure who started the problem to where the other side now tells their healers to target forward. There's also a handful of counters for creeps to avoid the target forwarding. Some clever, some not as much. And in the even there's multiple targets going down it obviously strains the healers beyond their abilities, even with AoE bolster spam.

    WLs need a third single target heal to put in to their rotation. I find myself sitting there with nothing to do half the time and when I'm cross healing in groups I find it's lacking in the event of AoEs from freepside. Also increasing the healing range on warleaders will be fantastic. I have been yelling at people to stop getting out of Quitters range but it can't be helped with the leaders are telling them to 'spread out' to alleviate AoEs. With the upcoming AoE warden bleeds we're going to see some issues with maintaining multiple target heals in fights. The adjusted stats will help and I'll likely be improving my facetanking on my warleader until Oathies are put on me. Then I just drop on the floor like a bowl of beets.

    Personal feelings about wargs is just increasing cooldowns on certain skills. Escape I can deal with and now that hunters will be able to track them again we'll see less wargs lurking out to be an annoyance at 1v1 circles. I think it's the Eye Gouge rotation that has allowed wargs to cycle through a pattern which outputs some high DPS which is most frustrating for me. Someone said it best on the forums once in regards to comparing the DPS with their champion, stating something about '75% of my DPS but I don't have 75% of the warg's morale.' We'll see how wargs stand when changes go live with U13 and revisit this class.
    Warg's also don't have 75% of the heals of a champ. Champs absolutely need love, but with the changes to mits, champs will be in a MUCH better spot than they are now, due to simply not taking damage from primary dps creep classes. I just finished leveling and gearing a guard on Brandy, and I've already decided its going to be shelved come U13 if orc/fell mits remain the same. Think about the implications of 60-65% mits for heavy classes instead of 30%. Reavers will be fine (and even better off, actually) due to how impale works, but I had fights with guards on BR where 2 piercing claws (-5% max morale, 10% on crit) did more damage than 10 bestial claws (highest tooltip damage skill a warg has). I've got 1 stupidly OP freep that takes active input to actually be so OP, I don't need another that has its God mode basically passive (guard heals are almost completely passive, along with the soon to be crazy mits).

    Excellent point on WLs. IMO the heal that traited snap out of it provides should just be made its own separate skill, on a 10-12s cd. Make traited Snap out of it apply a 5-10s immunity to stuns/dazes (so 25-50% uptime on stun immunity for a single target).

    If you don't like lagging out when you try to heal your kinnies/raid members when you target them, bring that up with them. The reason you lag out (and every creep when they target them) is something completely under their control, whether they want to admit it or not. I'm not one of those people who rages about tfh. Its been a mechanic in the game for as long as I can remember so I don't know why its the current flavor of the month to gripe about, but that doesn't mean the game wouldn't be better without it. If you want to tfh, go for it. Its a well established thing in this game, but trying to justify using it due to lag is like trying to justify using store pots because of hobbit presents.
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  17. #17
    i tihnk wrdns n33d h!gher dmg on dere bleeds

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Warg's also don't have 75% of the heals of a champ. Champs absolutely need love, but with the changes to mits, champs will be in a MUCH better spot than they are now, due to simply not taking damage from primary dps creep classes. I just finished leveling and gearing a guard on Brandy, and I've already decided its going to be shelved come U13 if orc/fell mits remain the same. Think about the implications of 60-65% mits for heavy classes instead of 30%. Reavers will be fine (and even better off, actually) due to how impale works, but I had fights with guards on BR where 2 piercing claws (-5% max morale, 10% on crit) did more damage than 10 bestial claws (highest tooltip damage skill a warg has). I've got 1 stupidly OP freep that takes active input to actually be so OP, I don't need another that has its God mode basically passive (guard heals are almost completely passive, along with the soon to be crazy mits).
    I don't play the champion class so my statement was in reference to a quote from another. I may be hollering for nothing right now about the class until U13 when mitigations go in to live but the changes are going to draw out fights for certain classes over others. Compared with light armor the damage change may be minimal but that's all based on speculation since I haven't gone on Bullroarer to test things out as you have.

    Excellent point on WLs. IMO the heal that traited snap out of it provides should just be made its own separate skill, on a 10-12s cd. Make traited Snap out of it apply a 5-10s immunity to stuns/dazes (so 25-50% uptime on stun immunity for a single target).
    Not opposed to this change at all. It's already in the game and just need to have it's heal adjusted. That'd be an adequate addition in to rotation of a WL.

    If you don't like lagging out when you try to heal your kinnies/raid members when you target them, bring that up with them. The reason you lag out (and every creep when they target them) is something completely under their control, whether they want to admit it or not. I'm not one of those people who rages about tfh. Its been a mechanic in the game for as long as I can remember so I don't know why its the current flavor of the month to gripe about, but that doesn't mean the game wouldn't be better without it. If you want to tfh, go for it. Its a well established thing in this game, but trying to justify using it due to lag is like trying to justify using store pots because of hobbit presents.
    Hey now, I pay money to get those hobbit gifts. Even if most of the time it's stale crams. Depending on the situation, I think the store pots could be beneficial. But they'd be frowned upon in say 1v1 settings where there's some unspoken rule about what can be used by either side. Other times it's anything goes. I justify TFH because of the lag and it's not my preferred style of playing in the Moors. I'm sure it's not for many people but I know that it's use to bypass additional lag is a benefit for the players who are charged with the responsibility of keeping their groups alive. I just hate how limited it makes me at times when I react better from individually selecting people to use something other than bolster. But I digress.

    Also for those several people who add on to the rows of buffs have been told in a semi-polite manner that their contribution to lag makes it very inconvenient for the support to assist them. Particularly so when they are calling for heals. Grr.


  19. #19
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    The two biggest problems I see out there right now have already been mentioned, but I'll reiterate.

    1) Freep healing. OMG, Minstrels need to be nerfed into the ground (I say this with Minstrel as my main and a lot of /played time in the Moors).

    2) Lag from massive amounts of buffs. Besides the inanity of Leader of Men Captain skills, I can't even target them because of the 5+ rows of flickering buffs on them which completely lag me out. The same is true of other classes, but I notice it more from Captains. Consolidate all the Ettenmoors buffs into the Monster Play buff for Freeps with different colors for number of keeps owned, a border showing relic status, and a number for outposts owned and you're done. Then add the same thing to Creeps.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  20. #20
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    Overall:

    1. Condensing of gain/damage buffs and the option to disable ALL buffs, with a checklist to allow certain buffs through (-inc damage, hot, dot, armour debuff etc)
    2. Disabling of target fowarding in the moors (There is NO good argument to support this pathetic act)

    Creep/freep specific: (not mentioning anything that is being addressed in u13)

    1. Spider overhaul as I posted a few months ago
    2. Increased creep ability to debuff armour value
    3. Increased creep ability to decrease incoming and outgoing healing
    4. Lowering of damage output (both sides)
    5. Lowering of healing output (both sides)
    6. NPC potency increased one hundred fold. Tyrants and Captain-Generals with auras that increase their damage/mits/abilities/healing based on how many friendly players are inside the keep/outpost. Make pushing a keep something to be cautious of once more.
    7. Give ba's another damage skill on a short CD to add into their rotation
    8. Give WL's a 3rd, short cooldown single target heal to add into their rotation
    9. Tone down the damage of the impale bleed bonus
    10. Increase the potency of racial traits

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    Overall:
    2. Disabling of target fowarding in the moors (There is NO good argument to support this pathetic act)
    There is one reason, in 1v1 fights etc or when attacking a freep/creep that is attacking you you don't want to have to target yourself when you hit a heal skill then target them to hit them, then target yourself again etc. so I agree with this with one SOLE exception, that being, target forward healing on self ONLY, not on others. Personally, as a spider I don't care, but it is painful and clunky for healers to have to switch targeting like that, and i'm pretty sure that's why they invented it in the first place.

    so that said, my list is:

    1: up spider damage, significantly... 3 seconds between dot tics is pathetic in this fast paced moors, make all dots tic at 2 seconds.
    resist penetration needs work too, and restore the break period to spider cc that was removed in the last expansion, webbing or stunning things and having them not even stop is annoying, for a cc class to have no break period on their cc is pathetic. also fix the pets

    2: warg mitigations should go up slightly in shadow, disappear should get a 15 second cd decrease and sprint cd should get a 30 second increase in shadow, reverse this for flayer. flayer mitigation and resistance should increase a fair bit, and the morale bubble should be increased to 1.6k. Scale the heals on rallying howl and double the evade increase on frenzy to 10% in shadow and make it a 10% mit increase when in flayer

    3: defiler, increase heals, slightly increase base mitigations, make fell sacrifice usable in-combat so they can compete with warleaders at least a little, improve flies slightly, make fire gourd and plague gourd on the move abilities. double the duration of fire gourd.

    4: Warleaders need more skills yo, give them another damage skill so they don't just sit there waiting for several seconds till they're allowed to attack again, an extra heal would be good too. lower induction speed by .2 seconds so they aren't so clunky and easily countered by sticking a melee on them.

    5: BA increase damage slightly, lower MT cd to 1 minute. they're supposed to be the single target dps...

    6: reavers damage on impale needs to be toned down... dramatically, however to compensate... increase their other skills base damage. increase the cd on charge by 15 seconds, the duration by 2 seconds, but make it usable in combat and uninterruptable. increase damage on AoE skills, and make them do +5% extra damage for each target hit.

    those are my opinions, I don't claim to know everything but this is what I think should happen creepside.
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    As for creepside, there are some blatantly glaring issues, such as the idiotically short cooldowns on Warg escape skills.
    /wall of text.
    Wargs are by far the squishiest class of any class freep or creep. if you want to take that away from them then give them a resetable TNG type spell and some uber DPS spell like CDG.

    /freep goggles

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by loki84 View Post
    There is one reason, in 1v1 fights etc or when attacking a freep/creep that is attacking you you don't want to have to target yourself when you hit a heal skill then target them to hit them, then target yourself again etc. so I agree with this with one SOLE exception, that being, target forward healing on self ONLY, not on others. Personally, as a spider I don't care, but it is painful and clunky for healers to have to switch targeting like that, and i'm pretty sure that's why they invented it in the first place.

    6: reavers damage on impale needs to be toned down... dramatically, however to compensate... increase their other skills base damage. increase the cd on charge by 15 seconds, the duration by 2 seconds, but make it usable in combat and uninterruptable. increase damage on AoE skills, and make them do +5% extra damage for each target hit.
    Only going with the more standout points here,

    You realize when you have nothing targeted, or an enemy who has nothing selected and you hit a healing skill, it fires on you, correct? If they disabled tfh and you had a 1v1 there would be no need for any of what you describe.

    In-combat charge, on a 35s cd, with a 10s uptime? Coupled with the current Resilience cd that would make it a better speedyboots escape skill than champ sprint or guard brutal charge.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rupture1 View Post
    Wargs are by far the squishiest class of any class freep or creep. if you want to take that away from them then give them a resetable TNG type spell and some uber DPS spell like CDG.

    /freep goggles
    Warg dps compared to freep morale pools is pretty well comparable to dps spec freeps atm. The difference is in the healing output relative to morale pools freeps have. A CDG style skill would just mean many 'real' targets would die in the pounce any time said skill is off cd, which is the epitome of bad game design. As for a TnG style survival skill, eh. It'd be nice I'm sure, but I'd rather have a viable way to deal with heavy armour classes come U13.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Warg dps compared to freep morale pools is pretty well comparable to dps spec freeps atm. The difference is in the healing output relative to morale pools freeps have. A CDG style skill would just mean many 'real' targets would die in the pounce any time said skill is off cd, which is the epitome of bad game design. As for a TnG style survival skill, eh. It'd be nice I'm sure, but I'd rather have a viable way to deal with heavy armour classes come U13.
    ya creeps still need to be challenged thats why we play creepside. how about just make our bleeds last 30sec and be uncurable, like burg bleeds.

 

 
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