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  1. #1
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    Are burglars broken?

    Hitting my warg for 15k CDG and 10k Flashing Blades I am down to half my max morale. I got full aud and 3 crit def corruptions.

    Is this working as intended?
    Siggy

  2. #2
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    Yes. It's probably working as intented. But it certainly isn't fun when my 50k morale(r11 ba with max aud) is taken off within 5-10 seconds. Mostly I'm already down to atleast half morale before I even realize whats hitting me :P

  3. #3
    [sarcasm]

    Brace yourselves!
    Newbie burglars coming to defend honour of their "underpowered" class.

    [/sarcasm]

    Cheers.
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
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    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  4. #4
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    CDG is definitely over the top, plus there's a bug with it not consuming Aim which leads to even more burst damage.
    But let's see what U13 brings.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    5,812
    The only point in talking about live server mechanics at this point is in regard to how U13 will change them.

    It's shaping up to be quite a disruptive update. Everyone should be looking at what's going on with U13 on BR; there are some drastic stat changes:

    1. Freeps are losing a fair bit of mastery.
    2. Freeps are losing (currently) all mitigation contribution from vitality and the primary stats (will/might). This is causing a very large decrease to tactical and physical mitigations. Ok, very large undersells it. This is huge.

    The byproducts of this; many freeps now have LESS mitigation to orc craft than they do currently on live, while also hitting for less.

    Obviously, subject to change, and in need of a lot of testing and feedback.

    Anyone who cares about the moors and has Bullroarer installed on a machine should be taking a look at this.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  6. #6
    There are some glaring freep balance issues live that could do with some adjusting. So naturally the solution thus far is to pretty much wipe out survivability for many free classes as well as nerfing damage. I have a couple decent creeps but it's hard not to whip out my freep goggles for this update so far.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000c6e65/signature.png]Dercin[/charsig]

  7. #7
    It's all of the little things combined that makes burglars so easy to call broken. Compared to a warg they have about a billion times more survivability (especially if grouped) way better stealth level, infinitely more burst dps, higher bleeds and as was mentioned the bug with aim not being consumed by coup de grace. This all added together makes them a very unfair match to an unfortunate warg who gets spotted while in stealth. I never stick with one class for long and by the time I was ready to give my burg a break I was really starting to feel sorry for some of the kills I got.

    I'd spot a warg who's in stealth (this happens constantly for burgs with max stealth level), swap 4 pieces of ToO armor while stealthed to make aim a devastate, swap back to moors armor, CDG, cunning attack (aim has made every single tick of the bleed the highest tier possible now), stun dust, double edge strike and if they're slow to hips flashing blades.

    Not many wargs can survive the bleeds, especially if no one is there to heal them, and a few seconds later they're dead after running away. I never felt burg was broken (aside from the aim bug) but I do think there are too many unfair advantages compared to some creep classes. On my warg I die in seconds the moment I'm out of stealth in the middle of a group of freeps. On my burglar I can dance around like a moron trying to hit a reaver who's running around like crazy and not have to hips until everyone focuses me more often than not.
    Last edited by RoyRogersMcFreely; Mar 23 2014 at 11:27 PM.
    You gotta chill to take it to the next level.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    The only point in talking about live server mechanics at this point is in regard to how U13 will change them.

    It's shaping up to be quite a disruptive update. Everyone should be looking at what's going on with U13 on BR; there are some drastic stat changes:

    1. Freeps are losing a fair bit of mastery.
    2. Freeps are losing (currently) all mitigation contribution from vitality and the primary stats (will/might). This is causing a very large decrease to tactical and physical mitigations. Ok, very large undersells it. This is huge.

    The byproducts of this; many freeps now have LESS mitigation to orc craft than they do currently on live, while also hitting for less.

    Obviously, subject to change, and in need of a lot of testing and feedback.

    Anyone who cares about the moors and has Bullroarer installed on a machine should be taking a look at this.
    You act like those changes are a bad thing... be grateful they don't stick completely to canon and turn you into a ring wraith after being stabbed 125 times with a morgul blade... then again that'd be kinda kick ###. Turbine do it!
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  9. #9
    I'm not sure Burglars are broken as much as CdG is.


    • CdG should consume the Aim buff.
    • CdG should break the Burglar out of stealth (because being able to stay in stealth when it doesn't land the killing blow is silly).


    Fix these two bugs and I think the skill is fine since it is on a 1m cooldown and requires Aim to make the crits certain. In fact, with these fixes the skill may be weaker than many other freep and creep skills (as far as damage to opponent's health ratio), all while having a higher cooldown and still requiring melee range and positional damage to be fully effective.

    But as Sezneg points out, the times are a-changing. Complaining about the current live state of the 'moors isn't going to be much help when the world is about to change significantly with Update 13. If I had the chance to test things out on Bullroarer, that's what I would be doing these days.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyRogersMcFreely View Post
    I'd spot a warg who's in stealth (this happens constantly for burgs with max stealth level)

    I can't believe after all these years there are still players that think stealth level affects stealth detection.

  11. #11
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    Burglars are a bad joke when it comes to DPS, have been seeing and parsing about two to three times as much DPS on average vs. my heavy armored visible classes, and have even once managed to parse in the region of 7k DPS (I haven't been able to replicate that, but as I was solo at the time I'm loathe to think of what burglars are capable with a red captain in tow) on an audacity capped R9 reaver. In terms of averages, I'd say a well geared Burglar could pull 3-4k fairly easily given positional and left to its devices.

    Though whether that will continue remains to be seen, with the mastery changes.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I can't believe after all these years there are still players that think stealth level affects stealth detection.
    I can easily believe there are "people" on this forum who will make a comment like this without adding anything constructive though. :3

    Burgs spot wargs with ease and not the other way around. Please, explain why to us. Or perhaps it does have an effect since we're harder to spot with our high stealth level while we hang around detecting others...
    You gotta chill to take it to the next level.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    I can't believe after all these years there are still players that think stealth level affects stealth detection.
    And how it isnt exactly?
    If i have 20 stealth level vs 6 of yours, and we are near each other, you will not notice me, but eventually i will notice you.

    Your comment would rather go with "I cant believe after all these years there are still players that think standing still in stealth will make you invisible to someone passing by".
    Chieftain Mreza, Kokosovo mleko Chieftain (Rank 12 weaver)
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    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  14. #14
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    Since they fixed macros it has not been as bad. I think for a class whose only utilities are steath and damage it will be in a good place after the mastery changes. A bigger problem from a BA/Defiler's perspective is the 75%+ skill induction legacy addle.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorandril View Post
    Burglars are a bad joke when it comes to DPS,
    Not if you're a warg player killed without the chance to fight back with a single skill.
    Last edited by CarltheRed; Mar 28 2014 at 08:45 AM.
    [B]Hitchens[/B](r9 warg)[B], [/B][B]Glasgow[/B](R9 LM), [B]Lintalthir[/B] (R10 Hunter), [B]Rithun[/B] (R6 Captain) Brandywine server.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarltheRed View Post
    Not if you're a warg player killed without the change to fight back with a single skill.
    He agreed with you.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stepbrother View Post
    He agreed with you.
    I see that now.

    However I'd say it's not even a matter of average crits for Burglars. Rather AIM is used from stealth with Cour de Charge. THAT is an instant kill for the average half-health creep.
    [B]Hitchens[/B](r9 warg)[B], [/B][B]Glasgow[/B](R9 LM), [B]Lintalthir[/B] (R10 Hunter), [B]Rithun[/B] (R6 Captain) Brandywine server.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarltheRed View Post
    I see that now.

    However I'd say it's not even a matter of average crits for Burglars. Rather AIM is used from stealth with Cour de Charge. THAT is an instant kill for the average half-health creep.
    So? aimed CDG from stealth probably won't break 15k since it's lacking FA/BB set bonuses that buff it significantly, and does less overall damage than a CA from stealth and only actually below-average players use that skill combination to start (typically I've find these players run in burglar packs) and the same can be essentially said for any warg that can competently use claw/rake and has the trait for a 3s cooldown on it.

    I'd be thankful if a burglar did that on me, with his biggest possible hit out of the way and no significant bleed to speak of it would probably proceed to die in a timely fashion. The average half-health creep that isn't a warg is sitting on 25,000 morale or more.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyRogersMcFreely View Post

    I'd spot a warg who's in stealth (this happens constantly for burgs with max stealth level), swap 4 pieces of ToO armor while stealthed to make aim a devastate, swap back to moors armor, CDG, cunning attack (aim has made every single tick of the bleed the highest tier possible now), stun dust, double edge strike and if they're slow to hips flashing blades.
    One would need IFA up in order to get the highest possible CA. However, that'd consume the Aim buff.
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  20. #20
    Burgs are pretty broken yes. Those dots are huge, 2x T&G, 2x evade buff, self heal, long stuns and dazes, high dps. Only when i sprint away the very first second on my warg i can survive. If i'm on CD with pots then i probably won't survive.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyRogersMcFreely View Post
    I can easily believe there are "people" on this forum who will make a comment like this without adding anything constructive though. :3

    Burgs spot wargs with ease and not the other way around. Please, explain why to us. Or perhaps it does have an effect since we're harder to spot with our high stealth level while we hang around detecting others...
    And last expansion it was the other way around. Stealth and everything to do with it is so laughably broken, but I guess most people don't notice it.
    Samuel

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bagluk View Post
    Burgs are pretty broken yes. Those dots are huge, 2x T&G, 2x evade buff, self heal, long stuns and dazes, high dps.
    If only a warg had some way to deal with 2xTnG and 2xFF. A well used KO and I guess Trip are about the only things a burg does that really 'concern' me on warg.

    This defeatist attitude 98% of the warg populace seems to take in regards to burgs, is a microcosm for how 98% of the warg populace approaches the game. Warg is at worst the second strongest creep class in the game in HD, and easily the best situated to beat burglars.
    Only when i sprint away the very first second on my warg i can survive. If i'm on CD with pots then i probably won't survive.
    the more people say foolish things like this, the more impressionable people will grow to believe it. Please stop saying things that are blatantly false.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    If only a warg had some way to deal with 2xTnG and 2xFF. A well used KO and I guess Trip are about the only things a burg does that really 'concern' me on warg.

    This defeatist attitude 98% of the warg populace seems to take in regards to burgs, is a microcosm for how 98% of the warg populace approaches the game. Warg is at worst the second strongest creep class in the game in HD, and easily the best situated to beat burglars.
    the more people say foolish things like this, the more impressionable people will grow to believe it. Please stop saying things that are blatantly false.
    Look, someone who knows what they're talking about.
    Moridin


    Aut vincere aut mori
    Attitude is everything

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  24. #24
    Love seeing burgs that blow aim+cdg right off the bat, unless it's to gank a fleeing creep low on health. You are literally throwing away half of your dps.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000c6e65/signature.png]Dercin[/charsig]

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Warg is at worst the second strongest creep class in the game in HD, and easily the best situated to beat burglars.
    I might give Burg beating to Defilers, surprisingly enough. When traited appropriately and with the comm pots I'd give myself a 70-80% chance to win. Though if the Burglar decides to run there's not really anything I can do about it so maybe not.
    Idmel

 

 
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