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  1. #1

    Advancement w/o Helm's Deep epic battles

    I have hesitated posting this for quite a while now, because I don't enjoy starting a snipe hunt; however, I realized that things can never change/improve if people don't say what's on their mind.
    This could just be me, venting, but I HATE strategy games and large scale battles. For me, MMORPG is about the RPG, not the MMO. I don't even like being forced to group in order to complete deeds or quests (Limelight Gorge comes to mind here). There are those who enjoy that type of gaming--I don't; I'm too afraid of messing up and getting someone else killed. If this game was available as a non-MMO, I'd play it in a heartbeat.
    It seems to me that much of the Helm's Deep quests are of the sort that have little to do with a character's class and skills, but rather with their ability to function on a larger field as a commander or leader. The last time I actually played, I quit in the middle of a quest because I was frustrated and angry. I like up close and personal; mano a mano; and, realizing that I wasn't really enjoying LotRO anymore, I quit playing for over a month. Logged in yesterday, and--meh--checked the store, paid rent on my housing and quit again.
    I am sure that there are thousands of players that LOVE the more grandiose play style, and that it has most likely attracted a whole horde of new, money-spending players, and good for you, Turbine, you're in business to make money; and good for them too, if this is what they enjoy; but, to paraphrase Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice, getting friends is easy, keeping them is the hard part.
    I guess what I'm saying is--how about more solo content that doesn't seem like a rerun from every other area. Playing games is supposed to be fun, not frustrating; energizing not enervating. LotRO stopped being fun when I was no longer able to game on my terms.
    This is just my opinion, which I'm entitled to.
    I don't need a reply.
    I don't need anyone to agree with me.
    This just how I feel.
    Thanks for listening.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    I hope there next expansion is nothing like HD. HD has nothing for me. So when I get a character to that level, I am basically stuck. Am also tired of the continuing of mounted combat.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Florida, USA
    I hear you, and I agree. I was so distraught at not being able to touch Limlight Gorge. Not to mention a few of the epic quests I had to outright skip because I needed other people. I solo/duo most of the time (duo because I'm primarily a DPS-charged hunter who needs a guardian to be a meat shield sometimes), and the few times I've randomly teamed up with people was a horrible disaster. They don't know what planning means in an RPG and just go right on into the fray expecting zero challenge. They died every time, leaving me to retreat in frustration.

    I haven't yet reached Helm's Deep story-wise, but I got the feel for what it entailed by poking at it when it was first released. I likely won't do any of it. It's the same reason I hardly ever do skirmishes -- I don't play the game to command troops and win battles. Isn't that what the strategy and simulation games are for? I'm in it for the story and my character and my own personal battles. 'Personal' being the key word here. Players like games where they are their own focus and can feel good about their achievements. What's the point of throwing your class and skills out the window? Why bother working at them for 95 levels? I'm sure it's because of allowing level 10 players to join in, but still. Options are nice to have.
    I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I rode in on?

    > Founder of Legacy of Narsilion on Arkenstone <
    - Extra Life Gamer | Captain of [+INT] Intelligence Modifiers -
    - GamerReverie.blogspot.com -

  4. #4
    Sounds almost like you're talking about two separate things here.

    Limelight Gorge basically required you to have a group in order to complete content. So if you don't like to group with other players, that's one concern. But that's not the case at all with Helm's Deep.

    Big Battles have a different mechanic that basically require you to do something other than play your class (unless you DPS). They don't require a group, but a lot of players don't like the mechanics. That's another concern.

    I'm not quite sure which one you're taking issue with, but in terms of Big Battles, overall for advancement, Big Battles really only matter for Big Battles. If you don't like participating there, you don't have to worry about gaining skill points, there's no group requirements or Big Battle requirements (other than the epic quest) to finish out Helm's Deep. Jewelry is available for purchase without ever needing to run a BB, and crafted jewelry (of the deep gear) is basically equivalent and in some ways even better than BB pieces.

    If you REALLY don't like BB and want to go into details with the Epic Quest line, I guess that's a fair argument, but it's such an easy and minor thing to complete, I could make the same argument about having to grind out the "slave" BS quests in Isengard.

  5. #5
    Perhaps I should have named my thread "Adventuring in Helm's Deep" rather than "Advancement..."
    I agree with you in one sense, that this seems like two separate issues, and that may be true for you. However, for me, it is one issue. It is possible (and having re-read my first post, highly likely) that I didn't make myself terribly clear.

    I spend my workday with people whose welfare I am responsible for--I don't want that in my play time. Whether I'm playing with/commanding PCs or NPCs, the issue to me is the same. I don't like being responsible for the lives of others, living or pixelated, when I'm off work. I don't want to see their virtual corpses falling around me. I want to finish every deed or quest I start--by myself. I get a personal sense of accomplishment whenever I clear out a deed page--on my own. Being forced to work with others, whether human or AI, to complete quests (Limelight), reputation/deeds (Wildermore), or work on the Epic Quest line makes the game less fun for me--me personally. I realize this is my problem, not yours.

    Do I like the mechanics of the Big Battles? Not really, but that's a separate issue, as is my opinion of mounted combat :-P

    Have I (finally) gotten my Character to 95? Yes, I have, by doing a lot of "grinding" in both West Rohan and the Helm's Deep areas--which doesn't really bother me as long as it makes sense in game. I've also finished most of my reputation/deeds (except Limelight and Rift, for obvious reasons).

    Do I feel that I paid for content I don't enjoy and will never finish? yes, I do feel that way, and (with the possible exception of dirty dishes) I don't like leaving things undone. I'm disappointed with HD because it seems geared to the Big Battles, which moved the nature of the gameplay further away from RPG where LotRO started, and also because I have to leave things undone that I would like to finish. Again--my problem, not yours.

    I realize what the MM stands for, and more and more games are going the MMO route. While MMOs are more expensive for the parent companies because of the equipment required to run them, they can also be cash-cows.... But I digress...

    I am concerned about where future expansions will take us in regards to RPG gameplay, and that some care will be taken to insure that everyone (soloist and groupers alike) can enjoy and survive--clear to the bitter heights of Mount Doom.

  6. #6
    I feel that it might be a good idea for me to weigh in here, at this point.

    I have a friend who is NOT a fan of Big (Epic) Battles. At. All. She was so frustrated and aggravated at trying to figure out what it was she was supposed to do in an area that was completely unfamiliar to her she wished she had not have spent her money on Helm's Deep because the Big Battles were required in order to finish the Epic story line. And the battles themselves were entirely too confusing to figure out for her. I spent a lot of time talking to her and reminding her of much the same thing I'm going to be saying here.

    Big Battles are a lot like skirmishes. They are a means for the game's developers to tell a story in a controlled space without any outside interference. Much like the skirmishes of Mirkwood, once they are done, you NEVER have to go back and revisit them ever again. Ever. Not if you don't want to. Now granted, there are some pretty sweet rewards waiting for players who decide they want to make a thing of it and do those skirmishes/big battles regularly, but you know what? It's no big loss if you don't. You can get other gear elsewhere that's just as good. No big thing.

    The other thing that I reminded her of is that the Big Battles mechanic IS NOT where Lord of the Rings Online is headed. Is not, will not ever. However, having said that, please realize that there WILL BE several opportunities in the future for Big Battles to come into play with regards to the story line. For example: as the ring draws closer to Mordor and the armies of Sauron close in on the White City and the men of Gondor rally from within the walls, there are several battles that happen. The Pelinor Fields. The City Gates. The Streets of Gondor. And what about something in front of the Black Gate? All of these moments are POWERFUL events that deserve to be done right if Turbine intends to let players experience being part of that. Big Battles is a way to let players be part of that.

    Now, I do realize that Big Battles may be just.....well....too big for some people to handle and still have fun. It was that way with my friend. I think she would have just preferred if the Big Battles were available as optional side-quests that she didn't actually have to participate in. Most of her frustration is that she didn't feel like she made a lick of difference. That what happened was going to happen anyway and it didn't matter if she was there or not. Such is the frustration of doing it solo.

    I think you may find the "responsibility for others' well being" does NOT exist in large groups where Big Battles are concerned. The developers took a different rout where BBs are concerned this time around. You as a player are entirely insignificant in the grand scheme of things. The enemies are after a target: a flag, a commanding officer, on optional objective. They don't give a rip about you and will not attack you, they've got higher priorities. I have never been in a large group of people in a big battle in which someone died before, unless they just got too close to enemy spawn points and were auto-killed. Player dead in combat in Big Battles just DOES NOT happen. So, that might be a little bit off your shoulders.

    Anyway, just something to think about.
    Allanar [Lv95 Huntsman] - Vilya

    Guilded Master Woodworker, Westemnet Master Forester, Westemnet Master Farmer
    Amateur Entrepreneur



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