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  1. #1
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    Sarnur revamp for higher levels

    First and foremost: No, this isn't a request to faceroll the Sarnur we have now.

    This is a suggestion that extra wings/chambers are added onto what is already there. Sarnur gets progressively more difficulty the further in you go. Partly because of the requirement for dwarf-make damage and partly because the mobs are simply tougher (such as the trolls and whatnot). Considering 2014 is a year without an expansion and full of revamps on other areas (North Downs, etc), it occurred to me that it would be cool to revamp Sarnur too.

    What if we had wings in Sarnur that were for levels 55, 65, 75, 85 and 95 as well? I'd recommend dropping the requirement for dwarf-make damage in these higher zones (because by these levels we are into Legendary weapons and dwarf-make damage isn't generally as valuable), but it would still be cool if new areas within Sarnur could be added.

    Then add on even more barterers (perhaps move them all to that little outpost just down the road from Sarnur) for each of the new wings. Put in some cool stuff for each level set (gear, recipes, etc). Throw some quest NPCs in, with daily quests for each level set.

    Within the new Sarnur wings themselves, add new named elites -- though please not on such dreadfully long timers (in fact, it'd be great if the timers of the existing 6 named mobs were reduced considerably -- make them into boss fights of sorts for the first part of Sarnur, with respawns within moments). Whole new sets of deeds could be added in as well. Mobs could include more drakes, of course, as well as spiders and other creepy critters. Within each wing there can be a less densely populated part for the more casual/solo of players, and the further into each wing you go, the harder the mobs of that level get.

    Seems like a fun way of reviving interest in Sarnur. These days people mostly only go there for deeds or for grinding Thorin's Hall reputation. This would provide new and fun content for all of those 45+ levels. New daily content, new rewards, and the foundation to provide more wings each time the level cap rises.
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  2. #2
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    I love this idea! Sarnur is one of those places that gets used for the above reasons, then abandoned. It's a fun space with lots of room for new content.
    Last edited by Elflord410; Mar 17 2014 at 11:50 PM. Reason: phrasing
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  3. #3
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    /signed and agreed. Sarnur is a great Dungeon and would be on my list for a revamp and higher level content. Perhaps have more Quest NPC's at Noglond? Nice suggestion
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  4. #4
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    Noglond! That's what the place was called! xD

    I imagine it might be a little confusing for wee little level 10s to see Noglond so much bigger (harder for them to find their own level 10 quests) so perhaps Noglond could be built deeper into the mountain side. Maybe have a door that requires you to be level 40 or above (similar to the door in the Barrow-downs that has a level requirement for the Epic quests). That way the exterior would still be easy to work with for low level characters but those who are 40+ or 45+ can still have heaps of barterers and quest bestowers (for that matter, some more regular facilities would be great too: mailbox, vault, etc) without having to run all the way back to TH.
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  5. #5
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    How about.....

    Add one new instance wing in Sarnur. Solo only. You enter this instance and you get on-level mobs for you to play with. Give it a mix of Sarnur mob types with a few new bosses. Ancient Dwarf damage is a must. Thorin's rep items drop as usual. Maybe a meta-deed for killing every boss that might appear in this area. Add a combined forge/relic master NPC to Noglond for the convenience of higher level players.

    This would give everyone a 46+ solo area to play with here.
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  6. #6
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    If they do this, I kind of hope they remove the dwarf-damage requirement. Being forced to build a 3rd age weapon just for one instance or dungeon would make it I think less desirable for most people. I know I wouldn't go there much if I had to do that. If you're looking for rep items, just stay on the first floor.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    How about.....

    Add one new instance wing in Sarnur. Solo only.
    Well, the whole point is to throw a bone to soloers and groupers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    If they do this, I kind of hope they remove the dwarf-damage requirement. Being forced to build a 3rd age weapon just for one instance or dungeon would make it I think less desirable for most people. I know I wouldn't go there much if I had to do that. If you're looking for rep items, just stay on the first floor.
    Definitely this. For that matter, if we were to be brutally honest, getting dwarf-make damage for the existing Sarnur (which, for on-level players, is right before LIs) is an inconvenience at best and pointless at worst. I wouldn't mind seeing the restriction going away entirely. If you want to beef up those later mobs just do it the normal way -- don't just make our normal weapons useless.
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  8. #8
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    This one I just don't find necessary at all all of those level that you want added to this area already have tons of content this area is nothing more than a fast place to finish up rep and get your goat before heading to Moria it does the job fine and changes here are just not needed, sorry but this one I give thumbs down not needed. there is too much that really needs fixing in the game and devs time should not be wasted on this are IMHO

    This is free content and added to this would hurt sales and give F2P a way to just skip more areas that they should have to buy to get to cap. I am sorry but this game need folks that pay to buy content not more free areas to avoid buying high level content free to play ends at level 50 and it should remain that way if you don't know if you like the game after 5o levels I don't think U ever will. at level 50 it time to decide buy the game or get ghost there has to be some point that F2P stops. I like that Moria is a roadblock and that after that its time to open the wallet

    To ask the devs to spend more time and money on F2p area is getting to be a bit much when the so many areas that have paid content need help so this would be throwing good money after bad and waste of resources that would not have any return
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  9. #9
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    I thoroughly agree, I have actually skipped it when I had the chance on my Loremaster. I just bartered for the stuff. If we make it more wanted, more people would want to go there, which I've seen maybe one person in there besides a kin mate. More people, the more fun it would be.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    This one I just don't find necessary at all all of those level that you want added to this area already have tons of content this area is nothing more than a fast place to finish up rep and get your goat before heading to Moria it does the job fine and changes here are just not needed, sorry but this one I give thumbs down not needed. there is too much that really needs fixing in the game and devs time should not be wasted on this are IMHO

    This is free content and added to this would hurt sales and give F2P a way to just skip more areas that they should have to buy to get to cap. I am sorry but this game need folks that pay to buy content not more free areas to avoid buying high level content free to play ends at level 50 and it should remain that way if you don't know if you like the game after 5o levels I don't think U ever will. at level 50 it time to decide buy the game or get ghost there has to be some point that F2P stops. I like that Moria is a roadblock and that after that its time to open the wallet

    To ask the devs to spend more time and money on F2p area is getting to be a bit much when the so many areas that have paid content need help so this would be throwing good money after bad and waste of resources that would not have any return
    Well, it is only a suggestion not a demand first of all, and while I agree there are many more things that could and should be addressed, Sarnur is a very unique area within Ered Luin that could be re-vamped. No other starter area has anything like it unless I have missed something in The Shire or Archet. What could happen is that separate/new wings be added that are only accessible to VIP's/Lifers or have a scaleable skirmish/Instance in the area that has to be purchased by F2p to participate in. "Assault on Sarnur!" (Sees wave upon wave of Trolls, Worms, Dourhands, Cave Claws, Drakes, Snow Beasts, Bears Etc )

    Noglond would be a good hub for it and since you would need to be within 5 levels of the suggested level of 50 ( so, level 45) to activate anything it shouldn't interfere with low level players.

    Also, yes to removing the ancient dwarf damage type...it really is not necessary, but is challenging

    F2p are going to be F2p regardless. You can bring a horse (goat?) to water but you can't make it drink.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    This one I just don't find necessary at all all of those level that you want added to this area already have tons of content this area is nothing more than a fast place to finish up rep and get your goat before heading to Moria it does the job fine and changes here are just not needed, sorry but this one I give thumbs down not needed. there is too much that really needs fixing in the game and devs time should not be wasted on this are IMHO

    This is free content and added to this would hurt sales and give F2P a way to just skip more areas that they should have to buy to get to cap. I am sorry but this game need folks that pay to buy content not more free areas to avoid buying high level content free to play ends at level 50 and it should remain that way if you don't know if you like the game after 5o levels I don't think U ever will. at level 50 it time to decide buy the game or get ghost there has to be some point that F2P stops. I like that Moria is a roadblock and that after that its time to open the wallet

    To ask the devs to spend more time and money on F2p area is getting to be a bit much when the so many areas that have paid content need help so this would be throwing good money after bad and waste of resources that would not have any return

    I think Fearless has a very valid point. I also agree with him on Moria being the point to where it's time to quit or open up the wallet. If Sarnur was ViP only or bought with TP then I could go along with the suggestion. At level 50 it is time to put up some cash or stay where you are.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I think Fearless has a very valid point. I also agree with him on Moria being the point to where it's time to quit or open up the wallet. If Sarnur was ViP only or bought with TP then I could go along with the suggestion. At level 50 it is time to put up some cash or stay where you are.
    Hate to kill this party, but there is precisely 0 chance of this happening. No new raid/instance content is even on the cards for this game.

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    For what it's worth, I'm not talking about a whole set of new areas. I'm talking about small caverns that are hard-capped at a certain level. How is it any different from F2Pers grinding levels in skirmishes or by killing a billion mobs on the landscape? It isn't any different at all.

    It strikes me as spiteful towards non-VIPs to refuse a revamp to a free zone. If that's the line of reasoning to be used, then Ered Luin, Shire, Bree and Lone Lands will never get revamped no matter how desperately they might (at some point) need it -- cause, heaven forbid we give the F2Pers something free. O.o

    In order to take part in ANY part of the existing Sarnur, players already have to be close-to or around level 45. In my suggestion, they'd have to be 50-55 to go into the next area, then 60-65 for the next area, and so on up until level 95. We are talking about a handful of quests on a daily basis (akin to the 5 quests daily in Hytbold or Wildermore) for each area (a few quests for 55, a few for 65, a few for 75, a few for 85 and a few for 95). How is that any different than those handful of quests bestowed by the waterfall in Thorin's Hall? Does anyone even run those quests anymore? I have never met anyone who levels exclusively through the use of those quests.
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  14. #14
    Accessing the area thru the backdoor instead would be a way to add the things you are suggesting Mar. I see enough problems on servers where mid level and higher players go thru Orodost to get to Sarnur, 1-shotting low level goblins making questing difficult for those just getting thru the area on a low level toon.

    At present I'm on a Premium account but I wouldn't have any problems with spending TP's to access the harder levels of Sarnur, VIP/Lifers could have access by default.

  15. #15
    THis would be a cool and rather cheap idea to implement. A few harder bosses would be nice there too. Amd the ancient dwarf is a b**** in that, but havent we all run HV where you need westernesse to have something other than remarkable mits?
    I would say bring it to something like that though as the trolls seem to have mits higher than remarkable....
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smehcoons View Post
    Hate to kill this party, but there is precisely 0 chance of this happening. No new raid/instance content is even on the cards for this game.
    They won't even offer an instance cluster or a raid at 95, despite many people saying they'd paid extra on top of subbing for it. Not likely they'll revamp a crusty old dungeon for no $$$

    As for spending time and resources revamping this for free to play, it may not be 'fair' but how do you pay for the revamp if no one has to pay real money to unlock it? TP from grinding doesn't pay real world wages.

    Plus the fact that there's already bucket loads of content for level 40/45/50 and up to 60. There are 350 quests in moria alone plus the repeatable instances and there are large parts of Angmar that are still challenging to solo at 50. There's also a chunk of Forochel if you just want to farm Thorin's Hall rep. Or the AH to buy it. Or the jeweller made rep. Or the F2P skirms. If free to play players can't save TP to unlock one of those areas, to level more, or someone can't get their TH rep another way, it's not the system design's fault.

    For someone completely F2P at 50 and levelling by doing the same 4 or 5 skirms, Sarnur isn't going to make it much more fun. It doesn't even have the lore easter eggs and size that Goblin Town does. It just has a stupid weapon damage type requirement and 2 types of mobs. It's one of the most boring dungeons in my opinion. And my opinion seems to be shared in that no one ever wants to run it. Not even for rep.

    If you want to force more people in there, just remove the rep selling option from the AH. Then everyone will do it on level for the goat. (And hate turbine, but that's not new

    If you want to just give free to players more content, at more levels, it'd be better to just unlock another existing skirm for level 50 F2Pers. (No TP/expac required.) Less work all round I would think-they are already scaled and it wouldn't cost/waste real money.

    and at least the bosses and damage effects vary from skirm to skirm.
    Last edited by Calta; Mar 19 2014 at 01:16 PM.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    As for spending time and resources revamping this for free to play, it may not be 'fair' but how do you pay for the revamp if no one has to pay real money to unlock it? TP from grinding doesn't pay real world wages.
    They already do stuff like this all the time. For example, the Hobbit Gifts. Yes, they give the option to buy more with MC, but the first one is always free. In a similar way, the Festivals are 100% free for everyone, but they are high on Turbine's list for improving. So much so that they, along with inventory and housing, had a thread devoted to them in the official sub-forum. The catch there is similar to Hobbit Gifts - certain quests can be made repeatable even on the same day by putting an MC price-tag on them. The inventory revamp itself is free -- with a further incentive of having more space available for purchase. They give something free as a teaser, and then dangle a price-tag on the side.

    They could do the same with Sarnur. If, for example, they did the same thing in Sarnur as they did in Wildermore and Hytbold, then they could put an MC pricetag on resetting the daily quests to do more than 5. They could offer the easy "soloable" parts of the revamp for free (and the associated solo quests) and require some form of "T2 Sarnur Quests" (the group quests) purchase in the store.

    There are loads of different ways they could introduce a pricetag to the Sarnur update without requiring an outright purchase the way they would with a new questing area or a new expansion. Just because it is set in a free zone and just because some parts of it are free doesn't mean the whole thing would have to be free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Plus the fact that there's already bucket loads of content for level 40/45/50 and up to 60. There are 350 quests in moria alone plus the repeatable instances and there are large parts of Angmar that are still challenging to solo at 50. There's also a chunk of Forochel if you just want to farm Thorin's Hall rep. Or the AH to buy it. Or the jeweller made rep. Or the F2P skirms. If free to play players can't save TP to unlock one of those areas, to level more, or someone can't get their TH rep another way, it's not the system design's fault.
    You are missing the point. It's not about leveling, and it's not about grinding rep. It's about giving an entire server new content to sink its teeth into, and content that can bring everyone in regardless of their playstyle or subscription level. Soloer? Come on in, we have some spots right in front for you! Grouper? You'll want to head into that tougher region in the back -- there's some good stuff there! Freemium? Never fear, we have some fun stuff for you to do. VIPer? And even more stuff for you! Sarnur is dead, aside from a few people who meander in there (often at max level just to make the process easier) to grind rep -- usually for their alts who are heading to Moria for the first time. Occasionally you might see a group in there (the other day I was grinding deeds and called out in my kin to see if anyone wanted to join -- we obliterated the place).

    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    For someone completely F2P at 50 and levelling by doing the same 4 or 5 skirms, Sarnur isn't going to make it much more fun. It doesn't even have the lore easter eggs and size that Goblin Town does. It just has a stupid weapon damage type requirement and 2 types of mobs. It's one of the most boring dungeons in my opinion. And my opinion seems to be shared in that no one ever wants to run it. Not even for rep.
    Which is exactly the reason it needs a revamp. To make it fun and give it new purpose. It's not about forcing people in there (that's the last thing I'd want) and it's not about giving free players more content. It's about giving everyone something fun and new to do, regardless of their play style.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    There are loads of different ways they could introduce a pricetag to the Sarnur update without requiring an outright purchase the way they would with a new questing area or a new expansion. Just because it is set in a free zone and just because some parts of it are free doesn't mean the whole thing would have to be free.
    But to what purpose? If not for rep or for F2P levelling, why bother. I don't think many would pay for it. It's old, it's never been a great instance, or a popular one and there's lots of alternatives in annuminas and fornost and and angmar and moria for those middle levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Which is exactly the reason it needs a revamp. To make it fun and give it new purpose. It's not about forcing people in there (that's the last thing I'd want) and it's not about giving free players more content. It's about giving everyone something fun and new to do, regardless of their play style.
    The older the content the more expensive to rebuild. I think Sarnur would fall into this category, as well. And there's been very little in the way of requests to revamp Sarnur compared with other areas. If they think the return on revamping Rift or Carn Dum is too expensive, despite demands/offers to pay for years and years by players to do so- then it's unlikely Sarnur would pass the cost-benefit analysis.

    I understand you wanting to make more interesting content out of old content, but many people have requested they start with the instances that were actually designed to be scaled and that hasn't happened due to resources and current priorities. So this is even less likely.

    Off topic: I still think unlocking a Moria or Mirkwood skirm (as examples) for a few mithril to let F2P * try them out might pay though. It would give people a taste of these areas. It would allow people to join groups/kin runs prior to saving up TP or cash for the relevant area. The Mirk skirms are some of the best skirms in the game (except thangulhad -the ballista one-which i hate but BB lovers may enjoy).

    edit or those who have not got the area bought/pre-quests done, yet

    PS edit: You could extend it to instances in two ways-eg permamently unlock Suri-sama for 10% of the TP that Forochel costs or for the equivalent Mithril.

    Or people might just pay a small amount of Mithril to try, as a one time only, one of the In their Absence instances, for example. ('Unbundling' the specific instance from the region, is an option the store doesn't offer atm, as far as I can tell.)
    Last edited by Calta; Mar 20 2014 at 09:19 AM.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    But to what purpose? If not for rep or for F2P levelling, why bother. I don't think many would pay for it. It's old, it's never been a great instance, or a popular one and there's lots of alternatives in annuminas and fornost and and angmar and moria for those middle levels.
    Again, it's not for leveling. One complaint I see on a recurring basis with the current level cap is that there is little to do. Groupers don't have raids, soloers don't have some kind of Hytbold/Wildermore repeatable. Everyone has the Epic Battles, and a (seemingly) large quantity from all playstyles simply do not like those at all (not to mention some of them are still broken, last I saw, and terribly unbalanced).

    If we forget about it being Sarnur and all the lower levels, would that kind of content for level 95 be something people would like? I thought many would, which is why I made the suggestion in the first place. But what about lower level players? Wouldn't it be nice to give them something fun to do as well? Something that, unlike festivals and that treasure hunt (etc), is always available? And pretty much no matter what level they are there's something that they can do for half an hour a day with their friends. Which is why I expanded the original idea to include the levels above the current Sarnur level and the max level, in increments of 10 (45, 55, 65, 75, 85, 95).

    Of course, it would depend on the Sarnur revamp being good, but the idea is to provide something fun for everyone to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    The older the content the more expensive to rebuild. I think Sarnur would fall into this category, as well. And there's been very little in the way of requests to revamp Sarnur compared with other areas. If they think the return on revamping Rift or Carn Dum is too expensive, despite demands/offers to pay for years and years by players to do so- then it's unlikely Sarnur would pass the cost-benefit analysis.
    I have not seen them say at all that revamping (ie: scaling?) Carn Dum or the Rift would be too expensive. The stated reason why they won't revamp those instances is because too many people look back on them with rose-tinted glasses and would be really ticked off if "Turbine screwed w/ my Rift!!!11"

    Because Sarnur apparently doesn't generate quite so much adoration, there wouldn't be much worry about screwing it up. Also, keep in mind that even with those pieces of content that have had a lot of requests for revamps, all of those requests started with just one request.

    Additionally, I know that people call Sarnur a dungeon (which I believe is a rather traditional term for instances/raids), but it is a freely accessed area. It wouldn't be a revamp to scale existing content. What is there right now would stay the same (except ideally reducing the respawn time on named mobs and removing the dwarf-make damage requirement). They would just add new "rooms/caverns/etc" to incorporate the other levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Off topic: I still think unlocking a Moria or Mirkwood skirm (as examples) for a few mithril to let F2P * try them out might pay though. It would give people a taste of these areas. It would allow people to join groups/kin runs prior to saving up TP or cash for the relevant area. The Mirk skirms are some of the best skirms in the game (except thangulhad -the ballista one-which i hate but BB lovers may enjoy).
    But they already can have those for free. As the Epic Quests are free for everyone in Volume II, all they'd have to do is complete the Epics. As far as I know, VIPs have to do that as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post


    I have not seen them say at all that revamping (ie: scaling?) Carn Dum or the Rift would be too expensive. The stated reason why they won't revamp those instances is because too many people look back on them with rose-tinted glasses and would be really ticked off if "Turbine screwed w/ my Rift!!!11"
    An actual Developer said specifically in a recent isengard q and a that CD was too 'crusty' (his words) to try to do. The various instance Devs have repeatedly said over the years that Rift has never been an option-it would have to be rebuilt to be scaled properly. That infers expensive.

    Sapience is the one who dismissed the forum requests with his comment about the rose coloured glasses. But he's not a dev, he's a forum modersator, so I generally ignore him on specific development questions that are answered with his personal opinion about players' attitudes/likes and dislikes/memories (As do many others. Hence the repeated questions in the Q&A.)

    But the game designers can provide facts. It's one reason I follow the Q&As. The answer is no 'from the Horses mouth'. And the requests have stopped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    But they already can have those for free. As the Epic Quests are free for everyone in Volume II, all they'd have to do is complete the Epics. As far as I know, VIPs have to do that as well.
    I meant without doing the epic even. for both F2P and vips. It would provide a tantalising taste of things to come for those who haven't been through the epic quest line before and another option for those who have, want to do the skirms, but don't want to repeat the epic. However I agree it may not work for skirms that are unlocked by the epic anyway.

    As far as I know many skirms and instances are still locked for F2P by region. But i haven't been on my F2P account for a while. Tried opening the instance finder for a group with a F2Per in fellowship and a lot was greyed out. Including skirms. I assumed accessing some of these on a one off basis for a small TP or a few mithril would appeal more than buying a region for some people. So it could be a new micro transaction. But as I said I am no expert on what is available to a f2per.

    Regardless, as i said none of this is going to happen. BBs are likely to be the only future content for soloers and groupers, equivalent to the old dungeons. It's been confirmed in the recent Q&A that that is only thing they are working on apart from questing.

    But by all means keep lobbying. I'd like to be proven wrong. Even Sarnur has more appeal than BBs
    Last edited by Calta; Mar 20 2014 at 12:07 PM.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    An actual Developer said specifically in a recent isengard q and a that CD was too 'crusty' (his words) to try to do. The various instance Devs have repeatedly said over the years that Rift has never been an option-it would have to be rebuilt to be scaled properly. That infers expensive.
    It may also be expensive, I'm not disputing that. Considering the amount of work that goes into merely adding a checkbox somewhere in the game, I think it would be foolish to say that any revamp is quick, easy, or inexpensive. All I am saying is that the stated reason is some kind of (and I dislike using this word) fear surrounding Angmar in general. I'd be surprised if they ever revamp it. Once upon a time, it was end-game, and it's the end-game most frequently (from what I've seen) reminisced about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    Sapience is the one who dismissed the forum requests with his comment about the rose coloured glasses. But he's not a dev, he's a forum modersator, so I generally ignore him on specific development questions that are answered with his personal opinion about players' attitudes/likes and dislikes/memories (As do many others. Hence the repeated questions in the Q&A.)

    But the game designers can provide facts. It's one reason I follow the Q&As. The answer is no 'from the Horses mouth'. And the requests have stopped.
    For what it's worth, I wasn't echoing Sapience when I used the term rose-tinted glasses. That's actually a line (or part of a line) from a song. That said, Sapience is the Community Manager and he's almost always the one giving answers. If Game Dev A passes along an answer to Sapience to share with us, it's foolish to dismiss it just because Game Dev A didn't come him/herself and tell us. It's Sapience's job to be the mouth-piece. Disregarding him because he's the mouth-piece doesn't do much good.

    I meant without doing the epic even. for both F2P and vips. It would provide a tantalising taste of things to come for those who haven't been through the epic quest line before and another option for those who have, want to do the skirms, but don't want to repeat the epic. However I agree it may not work for skirms that are unlocked by the epic anyway.

    As far as I know many skirms and instances are still locked for F2P by region. But i haven't been on my F2P account for a while. Tried opening the instance finder for a group with a F2Per in fellowship and a lot was greyed out. Including skirms. I assumed accessing some of these on a one off basis for a small TP or a few mithril would appeal more than buying a region for some people. So it could be a new micro transaction. But as I said I am no expert on what is available to a f2per.

    Regardless, as i said none of this is going to happen. BBs are likely to be the only future content for soloers and groupers, equivalent to the old dungeons. It's been confirmed in the recent Q&A that that is only thing they are working on apart from questing.

    But by all means keep lobbying. I'd like to be proven wrong. Even Sarnur has more appeal than BBs [/QUOTE]

    As a side-thought, aren't the Moria/Mirkwood skirms already available in the Store? I could'a sworn they are. It's just that I already own them so the Store won't tell me.

    *meanders over to wiki*

    Hm... I guess they aren't. Still, in that line of reasoning people would be able to buy themselves everything (except, I suppose, the rewards of completing those skirmishes) and never have to earn it. What would be the point in that? I personally don't like the Gift of the Valar for that very reason. It reminds me of the second year of Harry Potter. Malfoy bought his way onto the Slytherin team -- Harry earned his way. There is a big difference there.

    It's been a long time since my account resembled a F2P account.

    I wouldn't say EBs are the only future content or even most likely. They are a new tool in the sandbox. All that was confirmed in the Q&As is that traditional raids (or even 6-mans, etc) are not on the table for 2014. That by no means translates to "EBs is our future content, period."

    -.- There are a lot of things that have more appeal (to me personally) than the EBs. Soooo many things. I enjoyed ToO and Draig, etc. I can hardly bear to even launch an EB.
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