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  1. #1

    Allow conversion of Medallions to Seals

    Currently, Lotro allows a player to convert 1 Seal into 2 Medallions. However, Lotro does NOT allow a player (even a VIP player) to convert ANY number of Medallions into a Seal. Why? This is an inconsistent limitation in this game. It also appears that the only way to get Seals is to participate in Raids of 12 players. This restriction makes it very difficult to earn Seals due to the time required to get 12 players signed up and ready for the Raid. For small kins and especially those players not in a kin this restriction is even more frustrating to the players.


    Please remove this restriction and allow medallions to be converted to seals. To be consistent, if you can exchange 1 seal for 2 medallions, you should be able to exchange 2 medallions for 1 seal.

    Alternatively, please provide a way for players (especially VIP players) in small kins, or single players (not in a kin) to easily join and participate in raids without having to wait for a long time using the Instance Finder.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post
    Currently, Lotro allows a player to convert 1 Seal into 2 Medallions. However, Lotro does NOT allow a player (even a VIP player) to convert ANY number of Medallions into a Seal. Why?
    So that effort is rewarded. You want the extra nice things? Put in the extra effort by doing raids.

    It's not like anything obtained by seals is required in PvE landscape.
    Alternatively, please provide a way for players (especially VIP players) in small kins, or single players (not in a kin) to easily join and participate in raids without having to wait for a long time using the Instance Finder.
    GLFF exists.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post
    Currently, Lotro allows a player to convert 1 Seal into 2 Medallions. However, Lotro does NOT allow a player (even a VIP player) to convert ANY number of Medallions into a Seal. Why?
    Several reasons:

    1) There is plenty of content that can be done below level cap that allows you to get Medallions for little to no risk. Turbine wants you to get your Seals from doing level 95 content. Not something lower level

    2) People have Medallions stored up from doing content in the past. Turbine wants you to to get your Seals doing level 95 content after the level cap goes up instead of buying all the goodies with Seals you save up. Hence all Seals were converted to Medallions when Helms Deep launched. Turbine not going to let us undo this forced conversion

    3) The goodies you are going to buy are a reward for doing raid content at level cap - level 95.

    The alternative is to go back to the old system. You have level 50, 60, 65, 75 Seals. I believe they were called First, Second, Third, Fourth Marks. When the level cap goes up, what do I do with my level 85 barter coins. I can't buy anything useful for my level 95 character with them. We already face the situation of these kind of Barter Coins - such as the Hytbold tokens.
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  4. #4
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    Seals are currently a raid-only reward and the use for seals is very limited usually only for top-notch "endgame" gear.

    I do find that I strongly disagree with allowing people to convert Medallions > Seals. This would take away one of the more exclusive raid-only loot and take away any real incentive to do raids. Why do that 12-man raid when you can just go farm Medallions?

    And, as it is... Seals are not that difficult to get. You can get 6 seals per skirmish raid @ 95 (set for 12). Skirmish raids aren't exactly very hard to do right now... it is relatively common for people to be running them with only 3-6 people.

    If you really want Seals... go earn them like the rest of us... which isn't exactly hard to do.
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  5. #5

    Raid Advocates

    Lotro's obsession with doing raids without providing a convenient way for single or even small groups of players (let us say 2 to 6 players in size) to join in instances that provide similar benefits just discriminates against those types of players. Not every player or even a group of players logs on to Lotro just to do raids.

    I am VIP and been level 95 for some time and I do not mind grinding through difficult level 95 challenges. I am in a fairly large kin, and even with my kin membership, is it often very difficult to get raids setup and to coordinate what each player will be doing in the raid.

    And as far as any medallions I have are concerned, I earned each and every one of those medallions. If Lotro feels that SEALS are worth more NOW than they were before the HD expansion (which I already have bought), then why doesn't Lotro just increase the amount of medallions required to purchase a seal that they think is appropriate as well as reasonable. IS THERE NOT ANY NUMBER OF MEDALLIONS MEDALLIONS THAT ARE WORTH ONE SEAL?? Not providing any conversion is just not fair or appropriate.

    Besides if anyone really wants to, they can buy all the items they want (at whatever price that may be) without grinding through all the level 95 challenges.

    Lotro needs to be fair to all types of players and not give preference ONLY to the players that participate in 12 person raids OR have unlimited funds to buy what they want.

    If there are other skirmishes or instances that give SEALS other than 12 person raids, I would like to get of list of such instances. I have completed successfully several of the smaller skirmishes and instances with up to 3 players and have not received any SEALS.
    Last edited by Eglain_Kindred; Mar 20 2014 at 05:56 PM.

  6. #6
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    I have to say that I am against this suggestion. Solo play is already a very large part of the game, and to put it bluntly, we solo players don't need the really nice gear. Give the people that actually take the time to raid their due rewards.


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  7. #7
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    A few points:

    1. If Turbine implemented this suggestion, the example of the mark to medallion up-conversion shows that the exchange rate would be extremely bad. So the actual effect would be negligible.
    2. There is not currently any practical use for seals. Unless people actually pay 188 seals per BB jewelry piece?! I find that very hard to believe; incredibly high price, and the item is at best only marginally better than more easily acquired instance drops or crafted pieces (and that assumes the set bonus is worthwhile - not all are).

    I completely sympathize with the OP on one point however - when/if there is stuff worth bartering seals for, those of us in off-peak time zones should be restored a viable method to acquire some seals. I've noticed (not necessarily in this particular thread) that people have already seemed to adjust to the post-12.1 game as "the way it is/should be" - remember, the restriction of seals to raids only is completely unprecedented in the history of LOTRO. Foundry was the primary source of seals at 75; Sambrog/OE at 85; School/Library/GB instances were the primary (only?) source of S3M at 65. Prior to 95, raids played a very small part in the acquisition of seals or seal-equivalents. Which was a very good thing, since almost all raids take place while those of us on the west coast are still at work (just a bit of a pet peeve there... ).

    Now that I've finished transferring to Brandywine the situation is a little better for me personally. I actually do get to raid a few times a month and as a result I do have a small stockpile of seals if there's ever anything worth spending them on. On the other hand, players who are on at peak hours have at least 4-5x as many, so if Turbine prices things based on them (as they probably will, judging from the 85 first age symbols last year) I'm probably still out of luck. Unless seals are restored to 6-mans and 3-mans where they historically belong; then maybe the rest of us will have a chance to get something occasionally too.

    Looking at the mitigation changes in the U13P2 Bullroarer notes, it's not clear that skirmish raids will remain doable by 1-3 people for much longer. Which is good in a broad sense, but that's currently the only way to get seals with less than 12 people...
    Eglain_Kindred, that is currently the answer to your question; I know all of Helegrod can be done with just five people, since my level 50 kin did just that, including Thorog. Most skirmish raids should be doable with only a handful of people, though perhaps not some of the defensive ones where you fail if the NPC dies (or maybe those are fine too, not sure).

    A final point is that it's not obvious to me what there ever will be to buy with seals. It sounds like first agers will drop in T3 skraids and in normal raids, so that's not it. Armor sets? Possibly the second batch, but not the first based on past precedent. Since 60 was the cap there has always been a baseline armor set that required a raid for at most two pieces (Moria, Draigoch), zero pieces in the case of Hytbold. Unless seals are restored to 3-mans and 6-mans I can't imagine any future baseline armor set requiring seals. A second round of armor sets might, along the lines of the ToO or Erebor sets.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post
    Lotro's obsession with doing raids without providing a convenient way for single or even small groups of players (let us say 2 to 6 players in size) to join in instances that provide similar benefits just discriminates against those types of players. Not every player or even a group of players logs on to Lotro just to do raids.
    Lotro has an obsession with doing raids? Last time I checked, every single damn part of the game has been on a trend toward becoming "solo-friendly". Yes, that was rather blunt. But, I am awfully tired of the "solo" crowd getting to keep nosing in on wanting rewards from raids without actually having to do the raid.
    It isn't as if doing Tier 1 skirmish raids is hard. Right now, all you need for most of them is a group of 6 with just a little bit of tanking (any Champ/Warden/Captain/Guardian can do this easily) and some healing to keep any important NPCs alive (herbalists don't always pay attention to other NPCs as much as they should)... and you can take on just about any skirmish raid (12-man).

    The reason Turbine took seals away from 3/6-man content is because it was way too easy to just farm those places. The stuff you can barter for with Seals should take a little more effort to acquire... especially since the stuff you can get with Seals is usually worth the effort.

    If you can't be bothered to hop on GLFF and say "Forming level 95 (skirmish raid of choice). 1/12. PST to join.".. why should you be able to have access to the rewards a RAID gives without having to do the raid?
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  9. #9
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    I don't think it's a great idea. Right now, at 95 you can solo several of the 3-man instances and two people together can do several of the 6-mans. In fact, I solo 3-mans a lot on my captain and have hundreds of thousands of marks so, I'd be able to get raid gear without ever running a raid. Not sure that's how it's supposed to go.
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  10. #10

    Exhanging Medallions for Seals

    Some of the previous posts to this thread are missing the point of the suggestion. Based on the rewards that are available, Lotro should be able to determine a reasonable exchange rate. If the raid advocates want to protect their investment of time and effort it takes to be successful in raid participation, all Lotro has to do is to increase the number of seals that are rewarded for participating in raids and price the items available for purchase with seals appropriately.

    Apparently with the HD expansion, the value of medallions has decreased while the value of seals has increased. No matter what change has occurred, Lotro should be able to price the items available with using Seals appropriately.

    If there is a lack of worthwhile items to purchase with using seals/medallions/marks, then Lotro has the responsibility to create such items and also create quests/bosses that would benefit from the use of these items.

    This suggestion, if implemented properly, should not diminish the value of any player's investment in time, effort or money. It would make game fairer to all players, regardless of whether they participate in raids or not.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post
    Some of the previous posts to this thread are missing the point of the suggestion. Based on the rewards that are available, Lotro should be able to determine a reasonable exchange rate. If the raid advocates want to protect their investment of time and effort it takes to be successful in raid participation, all Lotro has to do is to increase the number of seals that are rewarded for participating in raids and price the items available for purchase with seals appropriately.

    Apparently with the HD expansion, the value of medallions has decreased while the value of seals has increased. No matter what change has occurred, Lotro should be able to price the items available with using Seals appropriately.

    If there is a lack of worthwhile items to purchase with using seals/medallions/marks, then Lotro has the responsibility to create such items and also create quests/bosses that would benefit from the use of these items.

    This suggestion, if implemented properly, should not diminish the value of any player's investment in time, effort or money. It would make game fairer to all players, regardless of whether they participate in raids or not.
    This is the point of your suggestion. You want to trade medallions for seals.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post

    Please remove this restriction and allow medallions to be converted to seals. To be consistent, if you can exchange 1 seal for 2 medallions, you should be able to exchange 2 medallions for 1 seal.
    .
    Seals are part of raids. It's WAI "Working as intended".



    I am still against this suggestion. I don't see how the game is unfair to all players. The means to get whatever you want is already there. You want seals? Go raid. You want marks? Go on skirmishes. You want Turbine points? Go deed. We solo players do not need all that cool gear. If we want it, we can go raid. No exchange rate is needed.
    Last edited by Nymphonic; Mar 22 2014 at 12:29 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eglain_Kindred View Post
    Some of the previous posts to this thread are missing the point of the suggestion. Based on the rewards that are available, Lotro should be able to determine a reasonable exchange rate. If the raid advocates want to protect their investment of time and effort it takes to be successful in raid participation, all Lotro has to do is to increase the number of seals that are rewarded for participating in raids and price the items available for purchase with seals appropriately.

    Apparently with the HD expansion, the value of medallions has decreased while the value of seals has increased. No matter what change has occurred, Lotro should be able to price the items available with using Seals appropriately.

    If there is a lack of worthwhile items to purchase with using seals/medallions/marks, then Lotro has the responsibility to create such items and also create quests/bosses that would benefit from the use of these items.

    This suggestion, if implemented properly, should not diminish the value of any player's investment in time, effort or money. It would make game fairer to all players, regardless of whether they participate in raids or not.
    No. This is not your original point. We got your original point. You want Turbine to allow conversion of Medallions to Seals. Now you are trying to argue a different point that isn't even relevant to the first post.

    Again... SEALS are one of the few raid-only acquired currencies. If you take that away, you will take away any real incentive to do raids. Why do you think so many people farmed the heck out of Sambrog before they took the Seals away? Now that Sambrog doesn't offer Seals... you see it farmed less. Granted, there was also a pretty good incentive to acquire those seals.

    Everything the "solo" player needs can be acquired without needing Seals. In fact, until Update 13 comes out, there really isn't any need to farm Seals at all. The only thing Seals currently are used for is to barter for jewelry that is only relevant to level 95.

    This suggestion of yours should not happen... and isn't needed.
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  13. #13

    Allow Conversion of Medallions to SEALS at an APPROPRIATE price

    Seals have been around for a long, long time. The seals I have earned long before I was ever level 95 were NOT earned during ANY raids since it is so time consuming and difficult to get 12 players to agree to anything, never mind the organized attack / teamwork that is needed to do well in raid combat. My seals were earned from mostly quests and NON-RAID instances. Now, since either due to the introduction of HD or some other game update, SEALS are now much more valuable, and while it is possible to convert SEALS to medallions it is not possible to convert medallions to SEALS. Consequently, Lotro handling of SEALS has been changed since this game update and this handling of SEALS is not "WORKING AS INTENDED" as one earlier post has stated. It is inconsistent to allow conversion in one direction without allow conversion in the reverse direction.

    Consider if a player converted his Seals to Medallions and then realized that was not what he/she really wanted to do. The way the rules are now, that player is PREVENTED from getting the same number of SEALs that he/she originally had, since there is no conversion of medallions to SEALs. IS THAT FAIR?

    If Lotro does provide this conversion, as I stated that in my last post, then Lotro could define an appropriate exchange rate so as NOT TO JEOPARDIZE the hard work done my players who make the effort to be successful at RAID encounters.

    I really do not understand what any player's objection would be to this change. I would also believe that some of the non-SEAL benefits that occur during a raid, do not occur anywhere else in the game. If that is true, then those benefits to raid players are still available to raid players and NOT non-raid players.

    Don't forget that since Lotro personnel designed the game, they should know how to provide this conversion in an equitable manner to all players.
    Last edited by rdachows; Mar 22 2014 at 11:08 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdachows View Post
    Consider if a player converted his Seals to Medallions and then realized that was not what he/she really wanted to do. The way the rules are now, that player is PREVENTED from getting the same number of SEALs that he/she originally had, since there is no conversion of medallions to SEALs. IS THAT FAIR?
    .

    Yes, it is very fair. Anyone that raids knows just how valuable seals are. It is the player's responsibility to make sure he/she knows what they are doing before exchanging anything. I really hate this hand holding and entitlement mentality that modern MMOs seem to be developing.

    Seals are not some trivial currency to be taken lightly. You spend them poorly, suffer the consequences.

    I don't agree with Turbine on everything, if fact I disagree with Turbine a lot. But this, I totally support.
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  15. #15
    Seals are not supposed to be easy or even possible to get solo.

  16. #16
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    /notsigned the current seal system works great for the small amount of seal gear that's even available.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by rdachows View Post
    Seals have been around for a long, long time. The seals I have earned long before I was ever level 95 were NOT earned during ANY raids since it is so time consuming and difficult to get 12 players to agree to anything, never mind the organized attack / teamwork that is needed to do well in raid combat. My seals were earned from mostly quests and NON-RAID instances. Now, since either due to the introduction of HD or some other game update, SEALS are now much more valuable, and while it is possible to convert SEALS to medallions it is not possible to convert medallions to SEALS. Consequently, Lotro handling of SEALS has been changed since this game update and this handling of SEALS is not "WORKING AS INTENDED" as one earlier post has stated. It is inconsistent to allow conversion in one direction without allow conversion in the reverse direction.

    Consider if a player converted his Seals to Medallions and then realized that was not what he/she really wanted to do. The way the rules are now, that player is PREVENTED from getting the same number of SEALs that he/she originally had, since there is no conversion of medallions to SEALs. IS THAT FAIR?

    If Lotro does provide this conversion, as I stated that in my last post, then Lotro could define an appropriate exchange rate so as NOT TO JEOPARDIZE the hard work done my players who make the effort to be successful at RAID encounters.

    I really do not understand what any player's objection would be to this change. I would also believe that some of the non-SEAL benefits that occur during a raid, do not occur anywhere else in the game. If that is true, then those benefits to raid players are still available to raid players and NOT non-raid players.

    Don't forget that since Lotro personnel designed the game, they should know how to provide this conversion in an equitable manner to all players.
    Considering you would be upgrading than yes the system is fair. You can not barter upwards from Marks to Medallions so in your argument a player should be able to grind out only marks and be able to upcale them to seals without ever having to run anything remotely challenging or have to work with OMG a group of 6 or more others.

    Seriously, there is nothing right now you even need seals for, and if there was such as raid armour, it would have bonuses to assist in the raid (like the BG set ect) so it would not be needed on the landscape and if the solo player wants it they can have 2 options..

    A: Get the cosmetic version from Laylas or the store
    B: learn how to do the raid and EARN the seals to get the gear.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    Considering you would be upgrading than yes the system is fair. You can not barter upwards from Marks to Medallions so in your argument a player should be able to grind out only marks and be able to upcale them to seals without ever having to run anything remotely challenging or have to work with OMG a group of 6 or more others.

    Seriously, there is nothing right now you even need seals for, and if there was such as raid armour, it would have bonuses to assist in the raid (like the BG set ect) so it would not be needed on the landscape and if the solo player wants it they can have 2 options..

    A: Get the cosmetic version from Laylas or the store
    B: learn how to do the raid and EARN the seals to get the gear.
    You can barter Marks for Medallions. I've done it so that I could get stuff that required more medallions than I had at the time. You can't barter anything to Seals. You can barter Seals into Marks or Medallions. Indeed, when a cap raise brings in a new tier, Turbine does that automatically so you can't accumulate Seals past a certain point.


    Part of the problem here is that 'raid' gear isn't quite like 'PvMP' gear. Raid gear isn't only useful in raids. It is useful on the landscape, too. Turbine does limit you in that you cannot barter for First Age symbols of the current max tier, I think. I looked at the symbols in the Skirmish camp vendors and they were 85 and lower. I don't even recall seeing 95 2nd age symbols there, but I could be wrong about that.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I looked at the symbols in the Skirmish camp vendors and they were 85 and lower. I don't even recall seeing 95 2nd age symbols there, but I could be wrong about that.
    I got a few 2nd Age symbols for Marks + Medallions when HD was released. Entirely possible that this was not intended and has been corrected by now. I haven't looked for months.
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  20. #20
    I am in support of conversion of Medallions to Seals.

    If you can downgrade from Seals to Medallions, then you should also be able to upgrade Medallions to Seals.

    Why should it only be one way? Best solution is to simply disable any upgrading or downgrading of seals.

    As for doing raids, getting a raid going is hard enough as it is, let alone completing it.

    How often is it you find people quitting before the end? Few stick around with first-timers and guide them through till the end.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdracir View Post
    I got a few 2nd Age symbols for Marks + Medallions when HD was released. Entirely possible that this was not intended and has been corrected by now. I haven't looked for months.
    I've gotten the 85 2nd Age symbols from the Skirmish Camp vendors. I will see if the 95s are there now.
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  22. #22
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    Even if Turbine wanted to allow this they cannot without totally screwing up the economy. Due to the generous exchange rates on enforced Seals->Meds conversion in the past many people have huge amounts of Meds available (>100k up to possibly millions). So converting Meds->Seals even at a exchange rate of 50:1 or 100:1 would allow people to get complete BB sets instantly. And any rate better than that would be completely insane if you look at Meds/Seals reward rates of raids.

    At that point they could simply remove Seals altogether as a currency.

    And as has been noted, there is practically nothing that requires Seals in the first place other than bartering for overpriced BB jewellry.
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  23. #23
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    Two medals you can get from one seal

    Two-hundred medals you must pay for one seal

    Happy grinding, lol.
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  24. #24
    The only time there was ever an overflow of medallions and marks and seals was when turbine got rid of instance tokens and revamped skirmish bartering.

    I wouldn't worry too much at upsetting the in-game economy. Upgrading medallions to seals would probably be absurdly high like 200+ medallions for A seal.

    I find it quite a hair-pulling experience having to run the same stuff over and over and over just to save up enough marks, medallions and seals to get what you want.
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