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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Where's the Housing Update?

    Was just looking over U13 notes...No housing update except for some minor rent issues being addressed.

    Wasn't this supposed to arrive before the end of last year?

    Roger

  2. #2
    No idea when it was 'supposed' to be out, but I do know that it will take a significant amount of development time due to the fact that they would have to redesign the system from the ground up to accomplish what most people want. Factor in having to make sure it doesn't delete or break everyone's house that they already have, unless they are going to up front tell you to clear out and buy new houses, and it's even more complicated.

    I know it's long overdue, but it will come when it is ready. Rushing it will only result in something subpar, which no one wants. Of the issues up for feedback, inventory and housing are both up there, so I'm assuming they are both being actively worked on. Inventory hits U13 and I imagine housing will be the next big thing to tackle.
    BAD WOLF

  3. #3
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    Yes, it was supposed to arrive before the end of last year.

    But, in december 2013 Turbine announced the housing update has been rescheduled to happen somewhere this year. Because (also based on Player Council feedback) they want to deliver more than they were planning to end 2013.

    So you're getting it later, but it'll also be more!

    And that is all I know.

  4. #4
    The housing update is probably in the same basket as the new raids. There's a LOT of empty housing, so it may not be the revenue-maker it once was, so they may not want to put money in it, same as raids.

    We'll see.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Loreineth View Post
    The housing update is probably in the same basket as the new raids. There's a LOT of empty housing, so it may not be the revenue-maker it once was, so they may not want to put money in it, same as raids.

    We'll see.
    They said they are working on housing.

    They said they are not working on raids.

    Pretty easy to see the difference.

  6. #6
    In the Bullroarer live stream it was mentioned that they are working on housing and currently looking at the hook system.

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post

    Will housing changes allow us random placement, or will we still have hooks
    HoarseDev – Right now they’re prototyping how the new system will work, so he can’t say for sure how it will function, but that is something they will be looking into while prototyping.

    It pays to pay attention to this thread https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-what-was-said even if you dont like the streams or want to participate there is tons of questions that are being answered by Sapience and Developers (and the Exec Producer).
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  7. #7
    Comon folks. Do you REALLY think they are going to make major housing changes? I predict the same old yucky houses with either more hookpoints or a slightly modified hookpoint system, like one that lets you move the points. I cannot see them doing any more than that.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    Comon folks. Do you REALLY think they are going to make major housing changes? I predict the same old yucky houses with either more hookpoints or a slightly modified hookpoint system, like one that lets you move the points. I cannot see them doing any more than that.
    Well, if you've been following the dev Q&As that have been happening with the Hobbits to Isengard runs, multiple questions have been asked about housing, and answered by HoarseDev and others, answers which would contradict your claim.

  9. #9
    I think when the EP wrote the original letter and hyped the housing change she probably had some good intentions. It seemed like HD and Class changes took most of the resources so that was not able to be done in time. The prediction is more vague this time around. I think with lay offs that probably pushed it back even further. I am hoping for sometime this year! I think if they did a sub par job or just changed the hooks then that would do more damage to their credibility and be a disappointment to the community. As much as I wish it was done last year, I would rather them to do a great revamp then just do the minimal. As it is I was trying to remember the last time I visited my house. I pay upkeep or course but it has lost its appeal about 2 years ago (I did change to Rohan furniture and that was fun). I think I visited our kin house once over the last year and that was to fill it with the Class quest items. Reviving the housing would add some fun back to the game. There is so much potential for housing but I am not sure what the tech will allow.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  10. #10
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    well after the last update that did nothing more than raise the cost of housing storage to the point to make it useless I don't really care to see anymore so called improvements that come with improved cost. I had just bought a few houses for myself and my kin and did not have the money to buy the chest back before the last update now i have house with little or no storage because of the insane price. No thanks skip the housing revamp I won't be able to afford it anyway
    Completeness is the only way to play! No fast track ever! Xp Disable Toggle Supporter

  11. #11
    Yes A housing update would be nice. Very nice. And yes they told us we will get something very soon. But it is housing really that important? Does it raise the fun you have with the game so much that you will stay here for more then two weeks. In a ideal world, yes they would have some developers working on that, but it seems that the available ressourses are a bit limited. I am happy so far we dont get anything, and i hope we will get not anything on housing very soon. The ressources should be focused on something else - create interesting and challenging content for the few players that already reched level 95, and that will be defintily no improvement of the housing...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fearless.one View Post
    well after the last update that did nothing more than raise the cost of housing storage to the point to make it useless I don't really care to see anymore so called improvements that come with improved cost. I had just bought a few houses for myself and my kin and did not have the money to buy the chest back before the last update now i have house with little or no storage because of the insane price. No thanks skip the housing revamp I won't be able to afford it anyway
    Per the BR notes, storage prices should go down some, but not as low as they were before. I think they want storage to be a gold sink and a source of TP/MC purchases.
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    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
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  13. #13
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    I dont think the housing changes will come very soon. yes they were due out around HD release but they decided to push back the housing until 2014 sometime. Which means they did not want to do just half put together change then spend 5 years putting in fixes. This makes more sence so they can do it right and do it huge.

    Refering to the live feed with sapience, devs and the exec at the end. (see link above in another post by someone). I believe a question was asked about the hook system and sapience refereed to Matt for the answer. Who made a statement about a prototype no hook system which would let players place items where they wanted, but he did not say one way or the other which system or changes will be implemented.

    this tells me they are checking out different methods or new systems and trying to see which will give them more bang for their buck to use the devs terminology.

    All we can do is wait and see which they decide on to have players tests and wait for our feedback. so who knows they might try a couple things. The player council might be helping with suggestions on this as well.

    i cant wait to see it tho...
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Well, if you've been following the dev Q&As that have been happening with the Hobbits to Isengard runs, multiple questions have been asked about housing, and answered by HoarseDev and others, answers which would contradict your claim.
    I would be thrilled to be proven wrong, and happily eat my hat with some salt and pepper.

    I still, however, will believe it when I see it.

    Edit: I doubled checked all of the hobbits to isengard transcripts, and there was almost no concrete information on housing. Other than that its going to be guild-related. They didnt even say specifically that the hookpoint system would be changed, only that they are looking at it. So if youd be so kind as to back up YOUR claim that theres going to be significant housing changes, with specific quotes that contradict my expectations... Id be happy, and cheerfully admit I was wrong and you were right. And trust me... I really really really want to be wrong about this!
    Last edited by PluckFSH; Mar 18 2014 at 11:52 PM.

  15. #15
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    I'm much in the same boat as you, PluckFSH.

    After the significant downplaying of the housing revamp to a housing update in 2013 by Sapience, followed by the upplaying by Kate Paiz in her December 2013 letter, I'm left wholly wondering where Turbine is going.

    Hoarsedev's answer does give some hope. He specifically calls it 'the new system'. I'd like to know more about what he meant with that. But one thing is for certain: they are prototyping a new system for the housing update.

    We'll have to wait and see.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    No idea when it was 'supposed' to be out, but I do know that it will take a significant amount of development time due to the fact that they would have to redesign the system from the ground up to accomplish what most people want.
    Bringing false hopes to the masses, eh? It was officially and explicitly said that the players should not expect major changes and restructuring to housing. The 'significant amount of time' part is true, though.

    Well, if you've been following the dev Q&As that have been happening with the Hobbits to Isengard runs, multiple questions have been asked about housing, and answered by HoarseDev and others, answers which would contradict your claim.
    There is nothing there that contradicts his claim. Again - what was said in the past, numerous times, only confirms his claim.

    Some of the people here like to remind everyone that 'no new instances are planned for 2014, get over it already!!' every time when someone asks a question about that. I find it amusing that these people are now taking the opposite logic path in this case here. Given that the relevant info was also provided, and never changed, several times - no major housing revamp on the way.

  17. #17
    Sapience clearly stated last year the housing revamp was going to be nothing more than a facelift, I haven't seen anything official that says that stance has changed ( maybe I have missed something , I don't read through a lot of stuff any more), so unless there has been something official with regards that, it is still a facelift and nothing more.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...96#post6868696

    edit for clarity,

    Facelift is my term, his actual phrase was "revise and revitalize" but definately not "overhaul and rebuild"

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Danchir View Post
    Bringing false hopes to the masses, eh? It was officially and explicitly said that the players should not expect major changes and restructuring to housing.
    I think you are confusing hypothetically talking about what would be required to deliver what people have asked for with me stating that is what they are doing. Maybe spend less time trying to weave in insults and more time understanding what was actually said? Additionally, see the next response as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    his actual phrase was "revise and revitalize" but definately not "overhaul and rebuild"
    I don't think people understand that in programming doing anything like this is almost certainly rebuilding. While I don't expect they can go as far as free placement pegs, even adding twice the amount of pegs in the system isn't as simple as typing a couple of lines of code to double the pegs and magically housing is revamped. Programming just doesn't work that way.

    Additionally, HDev just said in the livestream that they were 'prototyping the new system'. While this could be as simple as just they are tackling how to upgrade the current one in minor ways, it could also be a sign of bigger things than originally planned. Perhaps they see an opportunity for greater monetization if they put more into housing? Who knows right? At the end of the day their plans have obviously changed and it will take more time to develop and finish.

    You can either be ok with that, hate it, or not care...it doesn't really matter. Dev plans are a little bit like looking into Galadriel's Mirror...things that were, and things that are, and things that may be. *shrug*
    BAD WOLF

  19. #19
    A bit jumpy, aren't we. Perhaps my bad English can't distinguish between more fancy tenses like 'hypothetical future', 'speculative wannabe future' etc., which is probably the reason why I misunderstood you. Insulting you is hardly on my daily list.

    As for the 'next response' you mention... You should probably know that things like 'more', 'less', 'more than...' etc. are relative, not absolute terms. So be careful there, this ice is thin.
    All I'm saying is that the last official info is as described by bobbylobs just above. If that changes - fine. Then there will probably be different info before release. Not holding my breath either case.

  20. #20
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    There's a lot of noise on the line concerning the housing update, but Bobbylob's info is out of date, without question:

    August 2013:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I just want to set some expectations before too many people start getting the wrong ideas.

    Primarily, please do not confuse 'this year' with 'Helm's Deep'. While there may be some first steps in launched alongside Helm's Deep we aren't trying to tie the two things together. Any housing changes wouldn't be tied to a HD purchase for example. So don't expect HD to launch with an entirely new housing system, and I'd caution against thinking we're going to be able to rip out the old system and build a new one from the ground up. That's just not in the scope of this. If you think more in terms of revise and revitalize, you're a lot closer than if you're thinking overhaul and rebuild.
    December 2013 (Kate Paiz's letter):
    One thing I had hoped, when penning this letter last year, was that at the end of 2013 I would be able to write about the great changes we’d made to housing. But, as you are aware, we had to delay the bigger housing changes we have been working on to 2014. We had some very good discussions with the Player’s Council about what we should include in the housing revamp and there are a lot of excellent ideas out there. It takes time to develop those ideas into good, fun housing features, and while we could have rushed something out just to say we’d done it, instead we decided to take more time and make more meaningful changes. We will continue our conversation around housing with the Player’s Council, and I look forward to giving you an update later in 2014.
    March 2014 (Bullroarer Hobbit to Isengard)
    Will housing changes allow us random placement, or will we still have hooks
    HoarseDev – Right now they’re prototyping how the new system will work, so he can’t say for sure how it will function, but that is something they will be looking into while prototyping.
    Is Rohan housing a possibility in the near future
    HoarseDev – They’ve considered other places, and it’s on the table but he wouldn’t say it’s in the near term. Right now they’ve got a lot of considerations to make about whether people will be allowed multiple houses, what the process would be in moving from one to the other, and there’s also asset creation. So they’re just trying to get 13 out the door, looking fresh, and handling some more immediate priorities right now. They’re looking at difficulty of the game which obviously is pretty easy right now, so they’re taking the nerf bat out, to fix that up a bit. So they have looked at Rohan housing but he can’t say yes or no right now, and it’s not in the immediate future.
    What about having multiple characters on one account on the same server have more than one house
    HoarseDev – This is part of the complication with having housing in different regions, will people have to foreclose on their house in one region to move to the other, what would that look like – they’re hoping to come up with a slick solution to handle all that. Some of the changes that were made to the system at the end of last year, even though they didn’t get as much housing stuff done as they’d wanted to, those changes facilitated moving that along. That and having a more modular housing inventory system – those are the things that have worked as interim steps toward getting that off the ground. Toward potentially – no promises – enable other housing down the road.
    So basically, it's getting rather blurred what to expect. It's definitely more than in August 2013. But how much more? And in what respect?
    Last edited by Rainothon; Mar 19 2014 at 11:43 AM. Reason: clarification

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbylobs View Post
    Sapience clearly stated last year the housing revamp was going to be nothing more than a facelift, I haven't seen anything official that says that stance has changed ( maybe I have missed something , I don't read through a lot of stuff any more), so unless there has been something official with regards that, it is still a facelift and nothing more.
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...96#post6868696

    edit for clarity,

    Facelift is my term, his actual phrase was "revise and revitalize" but definately not "overhaul and rebuild"
    Sapience made his statement while the housing update was still planned for 2013. At that point, the time constraints were likely such that only minimal changes could be made in order to hit the deadline. Kate's letter stated that, in a decision at least partially motivated by the Players Council, the housing update would be pushed back into 2014 (although no official date range in 2014 was given) to accomplish something more with the update than just the superficial changes mentioned by Sapience.

    There have been personnel changes since then, but the fact that Rowan hasn't mentioned any change in direction on the housing update leads me to believe it's moving forward for a 2014 release. As others have stated, I have high hopes but tempered expectations. Here's hoping they make houses (and neighborhoods) places which we'll all want to visit again.

    -Thundertrain
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I think you are confusing hypothetically talking about what would be required to deliver what people have asked for with me stating that is what they are doing. Maybe spend less time trying to weave in insults and more time understanding what was actually said? Additionally, see the next response as well...

    I don't think people understand that in programming doing anything like this is almost certainly rebuilding. While I don't expect they can go as far as free placement pegs, even adding twice the amount of pegs in the system isn't as simple as typing a couple of lines of code to double the pegs and magically housing is revamped. Programming just doesn't work that way.

    Additionally, HDev just said in the livestream that they were 'prototyping the new system'. While this could be as simple as just they are tackling how to upgrade the current one in minor ways, it could also be a sign of bigger things than originally planned. Perhaps they see an opportunity for greater monetization if they put more into housing? Who knows right? At the end of the day their plans have obviously changed and it will take more time to develop and finish.

    You can either be ok with that, hate it, or not care...it doesn't really matter. Dev plans are a little bit like looking into Galadriel's Mirror...things that were, and things that are, and things that may be. *shrug*
    If the "prototyping the new system" is enough of a statement to refute my claims.. then well run with it, and good luck. I sincerely hope you are right. I personally dont believe it. But you are dead right in your earlier statement, for Turbine to actually do the housing system justice, to meet the needs and expectations of the players, they would have to invest an enormous amount of time and effort. Time and effort that they dont have, considering the mass layoffs WBs is so keen on, and the focus on Infinite Crisis, and of course the many problems the game has right now. Hence my belief that they will jigger the hookpoint system a bit, not give us freeform placement or new housing designs.

    Its not entirely their fault, anyways; the game is old, old and some of the code is from Asherons Call, for goodness sake, more than a decade old. Not to mention that the original coders that built this game are long gone. To do anything spectacular would require a complete rebuild from the ground up, the kind of programming that is usually done when the game is being developed.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainothon View Post
    There's a lot of noise on the line concerning the housing update, but Bobbylob's info is out of date, without question:

    August 2013:
    I just want to set some expectations before too many people start getting the wrong ideas.

    Primarily, please do not confuse 'this year' with 'Helm's Deep'. While there may be some first steps in launched alongside Helm's Deep we aren't trying to tie the two things together. Any housing changes wouldn't be tied to a HD purchase for example. So don't expect HD to launch with an entirely new housing system, and I'd caution against thinking we're going to be able to rip out the old system and build a new one from the ground up. That's just not in the scope of this. If you think more in terms of revise and revitalize, you're a lot closer than if you're thinking overhaul and rebuild.

    December 2013 (Kate Paiz's letter):
    One thing I had hoped, when penning this letter last year, was that at the end of 2013 I would be able to write about the great changes we’d made to housing. But, as you are aware, we had to delay the bigger housing changes we have been working on to 2014. We had some very good discussions with the Player’s Council about what we should include in the housing revamp and there are a lot of excellent ideas out there. It takes time to develop those ideas into good, fun housing features, and while we could have rushed something out just to say we’d done it, instead we decided to take more time and make more meaningful changes. We will continue our conversation around housing with the Player’s Council, and I look forward to giving you an update later in 2014.

    March 2014 (Bullroarer Hobbit to Isengard)
    Will housing changes allow us random placement, or will we still have hooks
    HoarseDev – Right now they’re prototyping how the new system will work, so he can’t say for sure how it will function, but that is something they will be looking into while prototyping.
    Is Rohan housing a possibility in the near future
    HoarseDev – They’ve considered other places, and it’s on the table but he wouldn’t say it’s in the near term. Right now they’ve got a lot of considerations to make about whether people will be allowed multiple houses, what the process would be in moving from one to the other, and there’s also asset creation. So they’re just trying to get 13 out the door, looking fresh, and handling some more immediate priorities right now. They’re looking at difficulty of the game which obviously is pretty easy right now, so they’re taking the nerf bat out, to fix that up a bit. So they have looked at Rohan housing but he can’t say yes or no right now, and it’s not in the immediate future.
    What about having multiple characters on one account on the same server have more than one house
    HoarseDev – This is part of the complication with having housing in different regions, will people have to foreclose on their house in one region to move to the other, what would that look like – they’re hoping to come up with a slick solution to handle all that. Some of the changes that were made to the system at the end of last year, even though they didn’t get as much housing stuff done as they’d wanted to, those changes facilitated moving that along. That and having a more modular housing inventory system – those are the things that have worked as interim steps toward getting that off the ground. Toward potentially – no promises – enable other housing down the road.

    So basically, it's getting rather blurred what to expect. It's definitely more than in August 2013. But how much more? And in what respect?
    I still dont see anything anywhere near concrete that changes from "revise and revitalize" to anything close to an overhaul, all that has been said since Sapience's quote are maybe's, could be's and vague "we are looking at things".
    From what HoarseDev said the housing update isnt even a top priority right now.

    So far all they have talked about is that MAYBE there could be random item placing but not sure on that, and MAYBE there will be new housing zones in the future but "no promises"

    To me all that still says a facelift is all thats happening, Kate Paiz said in her letter she was hoping to make "more meaningful changes" but that is a pointless statement as A, we have no idea what they were doing in the first place that makes the new stuff meaningful and B, what turbine and the player base think is meaningful may well be worlds apart.

    I think I will wait till I see something concrete before I get carried away with this, its been 1 and half years in the making and we havent been told anything substantial about what is coming, we havent even been told what WAS coming but got scrapped for new ideas, that would at least give us a clue as to where they are going with this.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    If the "prototyping the new system" is enough of a statement to refute my claims.. then well run with it, and good luck. I sincerely hope you are right. I personally dont believe it. But you are dead right in your earlier statement, for Turbine to actually do the housing system justice, to meet the needs and expectations of the players, they would have to invest an enormous amount of time and effort. Time and effort that they dont have, considering the mass layoffs WBs is so keen on, and the focus on Infinite Crisis, and of course the many problems the game has right now. Hence my belief that they will jigger the hookpoint system a bit, not give us freeform placement or new housing designs.

    Its not entirely their fault, anyways; the game is old, old and some of the code is from Asherons Call, for goodness sake, more than a decade old. Not to mention that the original coders that built this game are long gone. To do anything spectacular would require a complete rebuild from the ground up, the kind of programming that is usually done when the game is being developed.
    I don't expect revolutionary changes simply because that isn't realistic. There's only so much you can do with decade old code, their game engine, etc as you have aptly pointed out. But there does seem to be a change of direction in statements made, time passed, and new statements made. I suspect that they can find a way to improve housing more than we expect at the cost of monetizing it. I don't see anything wrong with that to some extent, but it really remains to be seen. I don't think freeform placement is going to be possible since it was never intended to have that function.

    I suspect something along the lines of

    - greater customization options with templates, more along the lines of how housing is done in Skyrim (fireplace or a window here, bedroom or trophy room here)
    - more hooks and the potential to control what goes on those hooks (ie no more hook restrictions other than floor item, wall item, etc)

    and that's about it. To be fair, that alone would require a massive amount of recoding down to the core and would probably be an adequate level of meeting players and the engine halfway.
    BAD WOLF

  25. #25
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    The bottom line is, no one - not even the devs - knows what the housing updates will end up being. But if HoarseDev says they're prototyping a new system I believe him. If he says they are considering multiple houses, Rohan houses, etc. I believe him. Nothing any player says, regardless of how emphatic and well-crafted their opinions are, will trump that for me. For me that's the final word.

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    • Will housing changes allow us random placement, or will we still have hooks
      HoarseDev – Right now they’re prototyping how the new system will work, so he can’t say for sure how it will function, but that is something they will be looking into while prototyping.
    • Is Rohan housing a possibility in the near future
      HoarseDev – They’ve considered other places, and it’s on the table but he wouldn’t say it’s in the near term. Right now they’ve got a lot of considerations to make about whether people will be allowed multiple houses, what the process would be in moving from one to the other, and there’s also asset creation. So they’re just trying to get 13 out the door, looking fresh, and handling some more immediate priorities right now. They’re looking at difficulty of the game which obviously is pretty easy right now, so they’re taking the nerf bat out, to fix that up a bit. So they have looked at Rohan housing but he can’t say yes or no right now, and it’s not in the immediate future.

 

 
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