We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 40
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,153

    There and Back Again: Expectations and Predictions

    First of all if you ain't seen the movies or read the books: Spoilers!!

    With two movies down and one more to go, I'm sure we all have a pretty good idea of what's to come. So before we get any official trailers, I'm curious to what y'all are expecting from There and Back Again. What are y'all looking forward to? What's gonna make y'all cringe?

    A few from my personal list:

    Stuff I don't really care about

    • some sappy death scene with Tauriel and Kili (ugh)
    • the confrontation between Legolas and that orc (I don't even care to look up his name)
    • Bolg (yeah, he's in the credits. why?)


    Stuff I am pumped about
    • Smaug vs. Lake Town!
    • Beorn unleashed!
    • The Battle of the Five Armies (of course!)


    So I wanna know what y'all are predicting. Rants, raves, cheers and fears!
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  2. #2
    I think that Bolg is kinda supposed to be there. NOT Azog tough, he WAS beheaded by Dáin at the Battle of Azanulbizar.

    • too bad that Smaug probably will be killed by a darn magical dwarf-forged 2-meter-long-piece of unspecified metal, shot with that windlance crossbow into a tiny patch on his chest where he is missing a scale. I think I'll be really annoyed about that scene and things concerning it
    • And they'll have to tie together that Necromancer/Sauron + Nazgûl part, along with Gandalf's escape and him getting a new staff for the.... 5th? time
    • However, looking forward to see Beorn and Gandalf plodding round and flashing light, respectively
    "I imagine you know the answer, of course, or can guess it as easy as winking, since you are sitting comfortably at home and have not the danger of being eaten to disturb your thinking."
    [The Hobbit, or There and Back Again; Riddles in the Dark]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    NL
    Posts
    59
    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    I'm sure we all have a pretty good idea of what's to come.
    Actually, I have no idea what to expect The additional storyline with Azog in An Unexpected Journey was... unexpected, but I did not really mind as it did bring extra suspense in the movie. However, PJ has deviated so much from the original material in DoS I fear there might be a few major changes... will Fili and Kili actually die? Maybe Legolas brings down Smaug? Or maybe Smaug actually survives the attack on Lake-Town, goes back to the mountain to fry some dwarf and a hobbit and lives happily ever after?

    I think the main part of the 2-3 hours will be filled with the Battle of the Five Armies (with major focus on Beorn of course).
    I do honestly hope Bilbo's original story sneaking out of the Mountain with the Arkenstone remains in the movie adaptation..

    Next to that, I'm going to enjoy the movie anyway, whether it's actually following the book or not (:
    "Not all those who wander are lost" ~ FotR
    Evernight: Faratalath (100 Hunter), Dorthar (76 Minstrel), Tardaros (42 Captain) and many more

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    609
    I feel we'll get some of the major elements (such as Bard still killing Smaug, the battle of 5 armies, the assault on Dol Gudur from the White council, etc).

    In terms of what extra stuff we'll get is hard to be seen. I want to say Thorin will get his revenge against Azog, and that Bolg will die from either Legolas or Beorn.

    Otherwise, a lot is speculation, since its hard to predict what PJ will do.

    Eodread, Earendel, Isilmacil - Horizon
    Thattickles, Thangorodread - Table Smashers


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Himring
    Posts
    713
    Well if Tauriel was added to broaden the demographic appeal of the Hobbit to female audiences, maybe Kili as the least Hirsute of the dwarves will be revealed as a female dwarf appealing to completely new demographic.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001019a8/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "Of course I am the only elf in the village"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Lowlands
    Posts
    358
    Yeah I have mixed feelings about "There And Back Again", sorta excited about how it all ends and sorta worried what else PJ will destroy.

    Stuff I'm looking forward to

    Battle of the Five Armies (duh)
    The Demise of Smaug
    Gandalf escaping from Dol Guldur
    Kili and "That Elf" death scene (yay)

    Stuff I'm worried about

    More Lore Breaks
    Some weird Physics

    Paradoxes I will laugh at.

    Dain
    Chrisandir, man Captain 100 | Raxus dwarf Guardian 51 | Chrorin dwarf Hunter 30 | Strillo hobbit Burglar 3 | Butche man Champion 29 |
    | Falaminianteraglith dwarf Runekeeper 20 | Randu man Lore-master 17 | Nafthali woman Warden 12 |

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,118
    Stuff I couldn't care less about:

    The girl elf.
    The ridiculous and asinine romance with the dwarf.
    Anything Legolas is doing.


    Stuff I would like to see:

    More accurate understanding of Bilbo's relationship to what's happening in the story.
    More respect for Bard and his abilities as a bow man, not a silly crossbow firing lucky shotter.
    Less comedic relief from the dwarves and maybe a bit more respect for their intelligence and abilities.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  8. #8
    Does anyone know for certain that Tauriel's going to die or is this wishful thinking on the fandom's part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Faratalath View Post
    Maybe Legolas brings down Smaug?
    The good news on this front is that Legolas has gone chasing after Bolg, so should be well away from Laketown when Smaug arrives.

    Smaug against Laketown will be epic, even with the Dwarven Windlass (I think that's what they were going for, but it sounded more like Wind-lance). Of course the Laketown guards will be useless here too.

    I think the main part of the 2-3 hours will be filled with the Battle of the Five Armies (with major focus on Beorn of course).
    You'd hope it emphasises Beorn.

    I'm a little more worried about the Battle of Five Armies. In between Legolas'es acrobatics and the dwarves' cartoonlike goblin slaying, the desperation of the battle could well be lost.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    The Lowlands
    Posts
    358
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    Does anyone know for certain that Tauriel's going to die or is this wishful thinking on the fandom's part?
    Either that, or she live sadly ever after (or PJ messes up the story even more and Kili does not die, but I don't think that will happen, because then I will personally lead the mob to lynch him and I will put his head on a pike and nail his pelt to my gate :P)
    Last edited by c_the_awesome; Mar 23 2014 at 10:22 PM.
    Chrisandir, man Captain 100 | Raxus dwarf Guardian 51 | Chrorin dwarf Hunter 30 | Strillo hobbit Burglar 3 | Butche man Champion 29 |
    | Falaminianteraglith dwarf Runekeeper 20 | Randu man Lore-master 17 | Nafthali woman Warden 12 |

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,027
    I expect Bilbo to be thoroughly mischaracterized again /still/ some more by PJs rewriting (no issue with the acting).

    I look forward to finding out who actually goes from the white council to DG and what happens that should be cool, I almost expected it at the end of DoS originally. Gandalf duo it with galadhriel? does she go all silvery scary noldor god-witch? does elrond leave rivendell? that would mean it would be the power of the three elven rings baring down on sauron sans ring. pretty cool.

    ps. anyone else feel PJs Bilbo story hack has meant he's practically the hero from the get go? he left no room for growth IMO. The first time he impressed was supposed to be leaving goblin town, next spiders then escape from elves culminating in his smaug exploits and wisdom with the arkenstone. This whole saving Thorin has got my back up. No likey. No room for growth from his cowering feinting self , super hobbit from get go (didn't even need the ring to do that apparently either! all other successes attributed to the ring really)
    Elendilmir - 95 Hunter Berenthalion - 80ish Burg Berendybuck - baby warden Berenion.

    Worst Reaver on the server BerendyBash - R4

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencepost View Post
    Does anyone know for certain that Tauriel's going to die or is this wishful thinking on the fandom's part?
    Wow. I didn't realize there was that much hate for the character. I ain't a fan, but I don't really want her to die. Lol.

    The good news on this front is that Legolas has gone chasing after Bolg, so should be well away from Laketown when Smaug arrives.
    That was Bolg Leggy was chasing? Totally missed that. With all the extra stuff though it's easy to do.
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  12. #12
    It was Bolg. You see Azog call his name at Dol Guldur.

    My expectations are that Smaug will die, that there will be diversions from the text that make me scratch my head, and that I will probably enjoy the finished product regardless of what he does with it.

    Personally, on the "would be cool to see but probably won't happen list" I'm hoping that Azog shows up at the Battle of Five Armies and Dain gets to kill him after all.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,359
    I always looked at the Hobbit movies the same way I look at the new JJ Star Trek films. If you've never read the Hobbit and have never seen Star Trek, the Hobbit movies and the JJ Star Trek flicks are actually decent films. For people like us it's too easy to say "That was never in the book or TOS!(Star Trek original series)
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I always looked at the Hobbit movies the same way I look at the new JJ Star Trek films. If you've never read the Hobbit and have never seen Star Trek, the Hobbit movies and the JJ Star Trek flicks are actually decent films. For people like us it's too easy to say "That was never in the book or TOS!(Star Trek original series)
    This. I reckon there's always gonna be some nitpickin to be done even in the stuff I really enjoy.

    I've mentioned this is another thread or two, but since WB has the media rights to The Hobbit and LOTR, I would love to see an animated series that was more detailed and stuck prettay much to the books. I think WB has done some fantastic animated stuff already, so I know they could make it look good. It would be cool too, if they could get access to some of Tolkien's other works and do some First and Second Age stories too.
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,292
    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    This. I reckon there's always gonna be some nitpickin to be done even in the stuff I really enjoy.
    Sometimes, it's nitpicking, sometimes a movie really is just that dumb. Like that scene with the molten gold in the second Hobbit movie (I only picked that one because it'd hands down the dumbest thing in that movie, not the only really dumb thing there is to be found). Nymphonic's mention of the J J Abrams Star Trek movies was inadvertently apt, because those movies were dumb on a positively epic scale. (I'm not at all averse to space opera, but I loathe bad science fiction).

    I've mentioned this is another thread or two, but since WB has the media rights to The Hobbit and LOTR, I would love to see an animated series that was more detailed and stuck prettay much to the books. I think WB has done some fantastic animated stuff already, so I know they could make it look good. It would be cool too, if they could get access to some of Tolkien's other works and do some First and Second Age stories too.
    I think we can be certain of one thing - WB would not stick to the books just because it was animated. Take a gander at Beowulf, that was one of theirs... 'nuff said.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Sometimes, it's nitpicking, sometimes a movie really is just that dumb. Like that scene with the molten gold in the second Hobbit movie (I only picked that one because it'd hands down the dumbest thing in that movie, not the only really dumb thing there is to be found). Nymphonic's mention of the J J Abrams Star Trek movies was inadvertently apt, because those movies were dumb on a positively epic scale. (I'm not at all averse to space opera, but I loathe bad science fiction).
    Agreed. Sometimes the stuff gets downright silly. That gold melting scene was just...wha?

    I think we can be certain of one thing - WB would not stick to the books just because it was animated. Take a gander at Beowulf, that was one of theirs... 'nuff said.
    Yeah no assurances they would. But they do own the media rights, and they have done animated stuff that I really liked. Oh well, a guy can dream right?
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  17. #17
    I'm hoping/ am excited for the white council banishing the Necromancer from Dol Guldur (hopefully a lot of Saruman and Galadriel using magic and stuff), even a single mention of Balin, Ori, and Oin planning to go to Moria, lots of Beorn, Dain's war pig, some of Gandalf and Bilbo's return jurney through the north (I doubt there will be any of this, but I can hope), the Bag End auction, a shot at the very end of a) The Necromancer fleeing and the mountains of shadow in the distance b) a + Barad Dur under construction or c) The Necromancer ascending an already rebuilt Barad Dur and becoming the Eye, and, hopefully, some form of The Road Goes Ever On and On for the ending song

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Like that scene with the molten gold in the second Hobbit movie (I only picked that one because it'd hands down the dumbest thing in that movie, not the only really dumb thing there is to be found).
    Yes, the dumbest. And, on top of it being a stupid idea, they did a really poor job of presenting it. The plot stopped dead for an awfully long time as waited in the dark to figure out just what the heck was going on. (Perhaps the only time in the series thus far that I started to feel particularly bored.) It's kinda hard to share in the suspense of the company's struggles to get the forges (actually, foundries not forges) lit when they've offered us no clues as to why it's important. And then the pay off was lame.

    I think some of the padding and long, drawn-out CGI sequences are present due to the very-late-in-production decision to stretch the story across three movies instead of two. (I'm okay with the decision, really. I'd rather have more movie, even if a bit diluted, than have them tighten it into fewer, better-paced movies. After all, it's not like we can expect to see any more cinematic journeys to Middle Earth after this run, so I prefer that they give us as much as they can of what they have.) As I recall, all of the principle photography had wrapped and most of it was even done with post when they decided to break it into three. And then, as I understand it, they didn't even do any more pick ups to add new scenes or shoot more detailed versions of what was already in the can. Thus, the expansion was all done in post by using every bit of what they had shot and by lengthening CGI sequences.

    I was really disappointed that the second one didn't end with the defeat of Smaug, so that the next movie could be more focused on the political drama surrounding the dispute over the treasure and the Arkenstone. The siege of Laketown culminating with the wyrm's fall would have made for an ideal movie finale, but now we we'll have that climax and the Battle of the Five Armies and the Dol Guldur resolution all packed into one movie. (Probably along with a drawn-out, post-climatic, 20-minute series of goodbye scenes like we had at the end of RotK.) Whereas I may have found the second film to be a little slow, I fear that I'll find the third to feel rather rushed.

    Pure speculation here, but I think it might be possible that New Line has enough references (as few as it may be) in their segment of the Tolkien material to provide them the legal basis for contriving a followup movie about the rise and fall of Moria. Of course, such a story would likely have to be highly interpolative (and even more heavily laden with non-canon original material) because they probably lack the proper screen rights to some of the most relevant parts of the lore. Not sure I would want to see them do that, but I am sure that I would want to watch it if they did.

    WB would not stick to the books just because it was animated. Take a gander at Beowulf, that was one of theirs... 'nuff said.
    I think that was more the screenwriter's fault than WB's. It looked to me like Neil Gaiman didn't really appreciate the poem as much as he claimed to. Or maybe he just can't handle trying to tell someone else's story. Obviously, there has been a lot of that evident in the PJ movies with respect to Tolkien's work.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by bambubambubambu View Post
    Agreed. Sometimes the stuff gets downright silly. That gold melting scene was just...wha?
    I agree! They expect us to feel the same degree of danger from Lord of the Rings, but they give us very CGI orcs, bouncy elves, and a dragon who can't kill 9 dwarves and a hobbit despite destroying and killing the people of two highly populated cities only 60 years before. I don't get why they're trying to go much darker than the book, but they're only taking out the charm without adding any realism.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,359
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Sometimes, it's nitpicking, sometimes a movie really is just that dumb. Like that scene with the molten gold in the second Hobbit movie (I only picked that one because it'd hands down the dumbest thing in that movie, not the only really dumb thing there is to be found)..


    I agree with 100% on that one. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I agree with 100% on that one. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that.
    In the EWW DOS video during that whole chase scene while the dwarves are trying to set up the statue trap the narrator says something like 'Use your fire Smaug! Use your fire! Why don't you use your fire and cook them already?'. He's gotta point. Heehee.
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MoxieMe View Post
    They expect us to feel the same degree of danger from Lord of the Rings. . . . . . .I don't get why they're trying to go much darker than the book
    Well, one of his biographies says that Tolkien himself wanted to write a new, darker version of The Hobbit that would be aimed at an older audience like LotR was. His knowledge of Middle Earth was much richer by the late '60s than it was back when he penned The Hobbit. He felt that the earlier work had become too simplistic by comparison and was considering writing a version of the story that could more firmly place it in context with the later material. To achieve this, he would accept The Hobbit as having been a hobbit's rather innocent, and possibly inaccurate, interpretation of the events and the perhaps compose the retelling from a more um. . .sophisticated? paranoid? morbid? cynical? world-aware? point of view (Gandalf's? Thorin's? Elrond's? -- I don't know).

    To me, the overall characterization of dwarves in the movies were, in a sense, largely reversed from what we find in the books. In The Hobbit book, dwarves are mostly portrayed as fundamentally comical, but in the LotR books, Gimli's pretty clearly a badass (albeit, an occasionally fun-loving one). Then, in the movies, I felt the depictions were kinda the other way around. (Well, to an extent, anyway. In any case, the PJ seemed to tone down Gimli's badassery and turn up the comedy, then did the reverse for Thorin's company.)

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Halgoreth View Post
    Well, one of his biographies says that Tolkien himself wanted to write a new, darker version of The Hobbit that would be aimed at an older audience like LotR was. His knowledge of Middle Earth was much richer by the late '60s than it was back when he penned The Hobbit. He felt that the earlier work had become too simplistic by comparison and was considering writing a version of the story that could more firmly place it in context with the later material. To achieve this, he would accept The Hobbit as having been a hobbit's rather innocent, and possibly inaccurate, interpretation of the events and the perhaps compose the retelling from a more um. . .sophisticated? paranoid? morbid? cynical? world-aware? point of view (Gandalf's? Thorin's? Elrond's? -- I don't know).

    To me, the overall characterization of dwarves in the movies were, in a sense, largely reversed from what we find in the books. In The Hobbit book, dwarves are mostly portrayed as fundamentally comical, but in the LotR books, Gimli's pretty clearly a badass (albeit, an occasionally fun-loving one). Then, in the movies, I felt the depictions were kinda the other way around. (Well, to an extent, anyway. In any case, the PJ seemed to tone down Gimli's badassery and turn up the comedy, then did the reverse for Thorin's company.)
    Don't get me wrong! I'm all for a darker Hobbit (after all, the book had Beorn's dogs carrying food on their front legs while walking upright on their back legs), but I feel like they either went too dark or not dark enough. Peter Jackson neither matched the tone of the book nor the Lord of the Rings movies, but rather reached a weird middle ground of telling us it's dark while having Legolas bounce around like rubber and cutting through orcs like they were butter. He put fart and snot jokes next to a very graphic beheaded king. I just don't get who the targeted audience is for these movie because it's all too different from the book, too violent, too kiddish, or too long and boring.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bristol, England
    Posts
    6,292
    Quote Originally Posted by Halgoreth View Post
    Well, one of his biographies says that Tolkien himself wanted to write a new, darker version of The Hobbit that would be aimed at an older audience like LotR was. His knowledge of Middle Earth was much richer by the late '60s than it was back when he penned The Hobbit. He felt that the earlier work had become too simplistic by comparison and was considering writing a version of the story that could more firmly place it in context with the later material. To achieve this, he would accept The Hobbit as having been a hobbit's rather innocent, and possibly inaccurate, interpretation of the events and the perhaps compose the retelling from a more um. . .sophisticated? paranoid? morbid? cynical? world-aware? point of view (Gandalf's? Thorin's? Elrond's? -- I don't know).
    That's not quite it... The Hobbit wasn't originally imagined as being set in Middle-earth (which back then, meant the setting for the Quenta Silmarillion) but was a fairy-tale world to which Tolkien lent some heft by borrowing some things from the Sil to furnish it (like the idea of Gondolin). In hindsight, Tolkien felt that parts of The Hobbit were very poor from his new perspective and that he'd been unduly condescending to his young audience. That's what makes the movies all the more annoying for me - a 'Hobbit' that leaned over in the direction of LOTR and was in the darker style of a more modern childrens' book* would have reflected something Tolkien had actually wanted to do. But they blew it - in parts the movies are more childish than the book was, thus taking it needlessly in the opposite direction. PJ blew it... if only things had worked out differently and Guillermo del Toro could have stuck with the project, now he knows how to do dark fairy-tales.


    *When I say 'modern', I mean that in relative terms, not all the way up to today - e.g. Alan Garner's The Weirdstone of Brisingamen, written in 1960, which is an example the sort of difference just one generation made and which emerged as part of the explosion in popular fantasy that LOTR inspired.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
    Posts
    18,359
    Quote Originally Posted by MoxieMe View Post
    while having Legolas bounce around like rubber and cutting through orcs like they were butter. .

    Oh, I hated that, I really and honestly did. Ok, I can get Legolas being some kind of commando in the LOTR movies, and I think PJ did a good balancing act of making it look good and believable. I will not lie, I enjoyed seeing Legolas ride down some steps on a shield and taking down an oliphant by himself. But it in the second Hobbit movie it went to beyond ridiculous.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload