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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Guard, Warden or Captain? for tanking?

    which is the best tank?

    i have guard, but mainly dps on him, i do have warden i mainly tank on him.

    From what I've been seeing though, mostly everyone are using Captain or Guard.

  2. #2
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    No reply? is this forum closed?

  3. #3
    I would say, tank with the class you like most and can do a good job with. Guard and warden are both great, so is cappy. In my kin most of the cappy/guard/warden players can (and don't mind to) tank, and do it well. It depends more, in my opinion, on how well you know what you're doing and how good you are at grabbing all the mobs and positioning them

  4. #4
    Having tanked skraids on HD with all three, and BG on cappy and guard, I find holding a lot of mobs off others most difficult on captain (surviving is a breeze, just making sure other people don't die). This is because you have 1 force attack and 1 force taunt with relatively long cooldowns compared to guard and warden.

    Don't neglect your healing skills if you're a cappy tank, as rallying cry, inspire and WoC can generate a LOT of aggro to compensate.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  5. #5
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    I know quite a few captains who prefer to tank now just because they finally can, just like I know a number of guards who prefer to dps now because they can do that well.

    Since the topic starter has already two tanking classes, I don't see why he should even look at a captain. Guardian and warden are both good for any present content. If something more challenging will appear one day, then players will start making more exact comparisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    Having tanked skraids on HD with all three, and BG on cappy and guard, I find holding a lot of mobs off others most difficult on captain (surviving is a breeze, just making sure other people don't die). This is because you have 1 force attack and 1 force taunt with relatively long cooldowns compared to guard and warden.
    My experience tells me the opposite. Captains have an AOE force taunt at 15s cd which is the lowest cd for AOE force taunts among all classes (guards have 30s cd on the challenge). Of course the number of targets is smaller than those for Guard's challenge but the 40m range is rather handy in many situations and, thanks to the threat catch-up mechanics, using the AOE taunts twice more often you will allow you to stay at the top of the agro table more reliably.

    I definitely prefer tanking Skirmish raids and other ultra-chaotic instances on a guard (13 targets and 15s force taunt duration win here) though in BG/OD raids I would rather tank on a captain (there is no need for more than 6 targets at once, but shorter cooldowns and better survival skills make me enjoy tanking more. And rezzing those squishy dps classes as a tank is just awesome). It is a different experience and both classes have some advantages/disadvantages in various fights. And, of course, the personal preference for certain skills makes a big difference as well.
    Ishtarien - Captain
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  6. #6
    Guardian, Warden, and Captain are presently my three mains. The Guard and Warden are both 95, the captain is in the 80s. Between Guard and Warden, there is no comparison of tanking ability: Guards have higher mitigations, higher avoidances, more panic skills (on shorter CDs than NS), a bigger taunt in blue, and more direct AOE damage skills to hold aggro (Sweeping, Vexing, Whirling, Shield-smash, War-chant). I enjoyed playing my Warden prior to HD, but presently Guardians are better at every aspect of tanking, and it makes me sad. The comparison of Guardians to Captains is more competitive - Guard still has a bigger AOE force taunt, more direct AOE skills, but Captains have comparable survivability on their own with high avoidances, many ways to nullify damage, and some good panic skills, coupled with the ability to do buffing and off-healing makes them very attractive. However, if I had the option in a group of having a Guardian tanking and Captain dpsing/healing, or a Guardian dpsing and a Captain tanking, I would take the first combination. It's not cut and dry. All that said, as things are now, I would never want a Warden to tank over a Guard or Cap.

  7. #7
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    Captain Pros: High survivability, brings quite powerful buffs to your group, can power heal your group, decent 1 target aggro handling, can aggro unlimited amount of targets through healing
    Cons: Only 6 targets on AoE taunt
    The only place I don't feel comfortable tanking is Flight to the Lonely Mountain raid, the rest is easily doable on a Captain.

    Guardian Pros: Many targets and high range on AoE taunt, high survivability, can pretty much perma-force-taunt a single target
    Cons: Not really anything?

    I have given up on Wardens, I loved playing Warden the previous 3-4 years before Helms Deep expansion, that class is dead to me now. They obviously not useless or anywhere near that, but they're IMO not in the same class as Captains and Guardians are at the moment, and a lot of what made them fun before Helms Deep feels lost in the class revamp.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Captain Pros: brings quite powerful buffs to your group.
    I'm trying to pick a tank, too. It seems to me if you can do your job (hold threat & stay alive) and also provide powerful group buffs -- this makes the Captain better by default?

    The other tanks may be equal at tanking but none have the utility of providing buffs, back-up healing and in-combat resurrect. Am I wrong?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antitheist View Post
    I'm trying to pick a tank, too. It seems to me if you can do your job (hold threat & stay alive) and also provide powerful group buffs -- this makes the Captain better by default?

    The other tanks may be equal at tanking but none have the utility of providing buffs, back-up healing and in-combat resurrect. Am I wrong?
    I think Elrantiri said it all. Guardian has the advantage for large numbers with threat.

  10. #10
    Or Blue Champ...
    Last edited by Castorix; Aug 19 2014 at 08:31 AM.

  11. #11
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    All three are excellent tanks, so the real question you have to ask yourself is "what does class X bring to the table that the others don't?"

    So let's take a look:

    What does the Guardian offer that the Warden and Captain does not?
    More BPE and inc. healing - The Guard has traits that gets you 5% over cap on both block, parry and inc healing (captain only 5% extra block iirc)
    Higher constant mitigations - The heavy armour mitigation caps was lowered to 60%, but the Guardians Fortification buff gets you back to the old 70%, and keeps you there as long as you're in combat
    Constant force taunt on single target, and long force taunt on multiple targets - Ever since the threat changes, tanks have needed to consider DPS in their build to build and hold aggro. But with LI legacy, Fray the edge lets you keep a constant force taunt on a single target, and with BB jewellry set bonus, it's even longer, and this etxends to Engage and Challenge aswell.
    BPE survival CD's - Pledge and Juggernaut can be real lifesavers, and since many skills are Block and Parry reactive skills, they will help you build aggro too.

    What does the Warden offer that the Guardian and Captain does not?
    Defiant Challenge mitigation bonus - When tanking 5+ mobs, you can keep your mitigations at 90% much of the fight by just using DC whenever it's off cooldown.
    Morale Leeches - If you have Fierce Resolve and Exultation of Battle up when you don't have the DC mitigation bonus, they will help you survive that short time @50% mitigations
    Single Target DPS/aggro build - Even fully tank geared, by just choosing the right traits and legacies, you will have no prioblem generating enough damage on single target mobs to hold threat.
    Never surrender - A 15-20k heal, popped automatically when you need it the most, and by using cooldowns smart, two such heals in rapid succesion. Not even the Guards Warriors Fortitude can match this!
    Amazing selfheals - Not even the Captains heals can compare to a Warden spamming the Shield-Spear line.

    What does the Captain offer that the Guardian and Warden does not?
    Protecting himself AND the Fellowship - While he ends up right between the Guard and the Warden in (effective) Mitigations, the Captain has some great skills to reduce incoming damage in tanking spec, and the best thing about them is that most of them not only protects the Captain, but also the rest of his fellowship.
    Healing himself AND the Fellowhip - The Warden may come out on top when it comes to pure selfheals, but the Captain shares his selfheals with the fellowship, now that's something that any healer will be pleased about!
    Two handed and blocking - Not needing a shield in tank spec, but still being able to block means more damage = more threat. (Maybe the Guard can do this in yellow spec too? Haven't played around much with yellow on my Guard)
    Rezzes and heals - If you do not go full out tanking spec, you can invest a lot of points into blue line aswell, making you not only a good tank, but nearly a full on healer at the same time. If you're good enough, you might be able to do both roles good enough, and add more DPS to your fellowship. And as noted earlier, rezzing someone as a tank is not only a good ability to have, but makes you feel all warm inside too (just make sure you don't rez them right infront of that aoe troll you're tanking!)

    I might have forgotten some point or another about a class, but that's pretty much my take on the classes
    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8C8nLy2okg[/url] Saruman 6-man
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    Or Blue Champ...
    I've never played champ, but seems bit low on morale (compared to other tanks) and lacking ability to block.

    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    What does the Guardian offer that the Warden and Captain does not?
    More BPE and inc. healing - The Guard has traits that gets you 5% over cap on both block, parry and inc healing (captain only 5% extra block iirc)
    Captain BPE bonus: +5% block, +5% parry, +8% evade(maybe can keep up whole time, not sure, situational)
    Also +30% parry for 30sec.
    Last edited by Giseldah; Aug 19 2014 at 08:36 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    I've never played champ, but seems bit low on morale (compared to other tanks) and lacking ability to block.
    Yes, Champs are < other tanks (less self-healing, no block indeed, ...) but can be better in some situations (in BfE before U14 vs Wardens for example, but I don't know now...)

  14. #14
    In your experience, do Wardens get to tank the current T2C content at all? Cappies and guards are clearly miles ahead on paper. I'm asking because I have both at level cap. I tanked the whole Isengard cluster with Warden and enjoyed it immensely, then when starting on a new server I rolled a Guard and tanked the Erebor cluster. I've just come back from a nearly year long break. I love playing my warden, but more than that I love tanking. With the limited time that I have I won't be able to gear both toons up, so I need to make a choice. I'm looking for opinions from players with hands-on experience.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Giseldah View Post
    I've never played champ, but seems bit low on morale (compared to other tanks) and lacking ability to block.
    I do not know what champ tanks you played with, but with full essence gear you can reach 30k unbuffed morale while still having capped mitigations, 20% or more on parry/evade and 70% crit defence as a blue champ. Of course you lack blocking, but you can still survive everything and hold aggro as long as your group knows how champ tank work and let you grap the initial aggro for the threat reflect which is a huge part of a champs threat.
    Last edited by Schaijian; Oct 03 2014 at 07:44 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schaijian View Post
    I do not know what champ tanks you played with, but with full essence gear you can reach 30k unbuffed morale while still having capped mitigations, 20% or more on parry/evade and 70% crit defence as a blue champ. Of course you lack blocking, but you can still survive everything and hold aggro as long as your group knows how champ tank work and let you grap the initial aggro for the threat reflect which is a huge part of a champs threat.
    You're right. I spoke with memories from pre essence era. Champions are getting a nice morale % in blue don't they.

  17. #17
    Yes they do get +20% morale as a passive in blue line.
    Just did a rough calculation for my build to see what the difference to 5 morale per vit would be.
    I'm at nearly 30k morale with 3200 vit. Without the 20% bonus, but 5:1 it would be nearly 31.5k morale - not that much of a difference. And if I understand the system how buffs like hope token or increases morale from captains work it becomes even less the more percentile morale buffs are active. In my case with the two mentioned buffs it would result in a difference of 650 morale.
    Last edited by Schaijian; Oct 03 2014 at 09:20 AM.

  18. #18
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    Thumbs up

    any one has opinions of this since update 16 came out?

  19. #19
    Do not imbrue the Captains Tanking Symbol.
    (Duration for SoD will be lost)
    Else?

  20. #20
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    i have both warden and guard

    i can't decide on which i should work on

    i need other's opinions to decide.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoohooham View Post
    i have both warden and guard

    i can't decide on which i should work on

    i need other's opinions to decide.
    What do you like more?

    Are you raiding with Kins, or Randoms?
    With Kins no differences, with Randoms the Guardian is mostly the easier Way.

    Hear a lot of Mitgration problems in T2 with the Warden.
    If you play the Warden for a long time you know this, but you know also how long it takes to solve the problem.

    Myself start a small Warden on a US Server, me has one on 75 too.
    Me is from Germany. So i will see what happen to the Inductions.

    The Missleway is very nice, and i get a new look on it. Remember ever that for BoD it would be nice to run less around :-)

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoohooham View Post
    i have both warden and guard

    i can't decide on which i should work on

    i need other's opinions to decide.
    Generic answer: Play what you enjoy more.

    Honest answer: Guardians are better.

    Thats not to say that there is anything a Guard can do a Warden can't, but it's without a doubt more work.
    If you are willing to put in the time to master your Warden and equip him to the fullest you will however end up with a very fun and potent class.
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