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  1. #1
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    Five weeks of crafting for armour?

    So I finally made it to the more interesting recipes from the Metalsmith Guild, namely Armour from Artisan and Master and above. Being Guild I expected some odd twist to make the armour but I did not expect something like this.

    Let me take the Guild recipe for Mirrored Knights Armour. Each of the items (Armour, Boots etc...) require a Large Master Crest. But you can only do a Large Master Crest every 6 days. I can only make one piece of the armour every 6 days. Not even trading in 7 Medium Master Crest for a Large Master Crest will help, since every Medium Master Crest has a cooldown of 2 days 18 hours and you would need 19 days to gather those seven Medium Master Crests you need to trade in for 1 Large Master Crest that you can get in 6 days. (!?!)

    Does this change later on? I am "only" Expert of the Guild as of yet...

    By the time I have crafted armour for a level 50 character it will be useless... also checked at Skirmish camp for any crests available for barter, but have not found any.

    This makes absolutely no sense to me. Am I supposed to stop playing for weeks at a time while waiting for cooldown timers?
    Last edited by Marancil; Mar 16 2015 at 08:53 AM.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
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  2. #2
    What exactly are you planning for this character that you want lvl 50 Armor?

    If you're leveling the character to cap, then why not just get lvl 45/48 Armor, then upgrade to lvl 51 Armor. And, then you're into Moria and quest rewards are better then crafted anyway.

    If you're going to park the character at lvl 50 indefinitely, to just have a lvl 50 to do lvl 50 instances/raids on level, then why does it matter how long it takes to get a full set of lvl 50 Armor?

    And btw, the conversions rate is 7 Small = 1 Medium; 5 Medium = 1 Large.

  3. #3
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    Yes you are right about the conversion, not that it matters a lot, since it is still almost 14 days.

    So basically what you are saying is not to do that crafting. Get Moria drops and ignore crafting guilds recipes, at least with my example. That's just great.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil 107 CHN, Historian | Calchiar 110 CPT, Explorer | Sturmdrang 77 WDN, Woodsman
    Anancite 71 GRD, Armourer | Tarostel 54 HNT, Armsman | Angredeth 97 HNT, Tinker

  4. #4
    I'm saying to ignore the armor recipes, until you get to a level that you're going to be staying at for a good long while... Such as the level cap. Until then, keep on working on increasing your rep.

    I'd say this is more the fault of crafting in general, rather than just on the length of the cooldown of guild crafted armor. Crafted gear simply falls behind the curve that quest rewards take beginning in Moria and the divide only widens in Isengard. However, the quality of crafted armor briefly rises above quest reward with the lvl 80 crafted set, then ends up with on-par comparing lvl 95 guild gear to teal instance drops.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    Yes you are right about the conversion, not that it matters a lot, since it is still almost 14 days.

    So basically what you are saying is not to do that crafting. Get Moria drops and ignore crafting guilds recipes, at least with my example. That's just great.
    These mirror armor pieces were obsoleted in 2008 when Mines of Moria came out. The mirror armor pieces were designed for players that had characters that were leveled capped at 50. This armor was viable from April 2007 until late in 2008 when Mines of Moria arrived raising the level cap to 60.

    Trying to make a set of mirror armor back before Mines of Moria was much more frustrating and time consuming. We did not have guilds. We did not have scholar journals. We did not have shards. Instead each recipe had a special component that was dropped by a single mob that had a very low spawn rate. On the average you had to grind for 3 special components and 3 single use recipes for each slot because the change of getting the critical result was a little over 33%.

    These days a metal smith can crank out one piece every week. What people do that really want this armor is:

    1) I need five weeks. I start well in advance stocking up the large symbols. That way when my character hits 50. I make all the pieces

    2) I will find five friends that have metal smiths. I will get them to make all five pieces.

    A lot of people do not bother with crafted armor under the level cap unless they are going to halt advancement with the Tortoise experience point disabler. Spend some weeks or even months at level 50 or some other level doing group content with friends. You are doing group content with friends. You have access to additional characters that can make gear.

    The single use recipes were always intended to be a time sink activity many people call it a grind because it is not quick gratification. Guild recipes alleviate some of the "Yula has to wait" aspect and frustration because of the guaranteed best result and a fixed completion date. Planning is necessary.

    I usually I only do weapons. You have to kill to do quests. The faster you kill. The faster you complete quests. The quicker you level. The more experience points you earn per minute. With a strong offense you do not have much of a need for good armor. My Minstrel typically kills opponents before they reach him. Often stuns his opponent completely shutting down any lobbed spears, fired arrows or the like.

    After Helms Deep, our characters kill opponents so easily. You do not need good gear at any time. Poor gear means 0% chance of dieing in combat. Battles take 30 seconds. Good gear changes that to 15 seconds with same 0% chance of losing. My characters are higher level using legendary weapons. I use quest loot drops for everything except the legendary weapon and class item. I upgrade every 10 levels. That means I use a level 65, 75, 85 third age. I get symbols for the second ages. My damage output is so high. I sell the symbols. Sometimes I do not find the weapon I want. I will craft one.

    Once you get to the Helms Deep content, there is a bit upgrade in damage output. You really tear the content up. Get a 86+ 3rd age. A friend of mine sent my Captain a 89 third age great sword because I was using an 85 third age. In order to make my friend happy, I started using the 89 when I reached level 89.

    I played this game for six years now coming up on seven. The game has continued to get easier and less complicated. In the old games, very few people used critical result one shot gear like what you get from guild recipes. It was very rare. You used crafted multiple use recipe gear. It was sign of arrival when a level 50 finally got a complete set of mirror gear. Or better still a Rift instance set.

    Sapience mentioned in another thread on the subject of balance within the game. There is no universal solution that meets the needs of all customers. Whatever solution Turbine chooses will make some customer upset. For example, I feel that the content is insanely easy currently. A lot of the better gear is of no interest to me because there is no challenging content of types that I enjoy that the better gear would help with. Telling me that I can do a 10 minute run instead of 15 minutes is zero incentive. Yet other people complain the content is still too hard. Unlike single player games there is no difficulty options. Yes I know there are difficulty options for some instances. The problem is that the base difficult is so easy that when you opt for harder it is still no challenge.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Yes I know there are difficulty options for some instances. The problem is that the base difficult is so easy that when you opt for harder it is still no challenge.
    This, so very much this. U13 does thankfully start to swing the base difficulty pendulum back toward 'more difficult'.
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  7. #7
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    I appreciate the extensive answer, Yula and that does of course explain a few things.

    These mirror armor pieces were obsoleted in 2008 when Mines of Moria came out. The mirror armor pieces were designed for players that had characters that were leveled capped at 50. This armor was viable from April 2007 until late in 2008 when Mines of Moria arrived raising the level cap to 60.
    Being that the example I posted, it is still only an example. How should I know that this armour is not relevant when it is available and in what way is it not relevant?

    halt advancement with the Tortoise experience point disabler
    What is that?
    http://support.turbine.com/ics/suppo...&basicSearch=1

    You must understand that if nothing is to be found in the official documentation. how is one supposed to know it exists?
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil 107 CHN, Historian | Calchiar 110 CPT, Explorer | Sturmdrang 77 WDN, Woodsman
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  8. #8
    At 50, no I wouldn't think you should stop playing to get the 50 armor. There are singles for the entire set but to blue crit them you will need a lot of Scholar journals. That seems to be my bottleneck anyway.

    If you look at crit 52 you will see it compares to the crit 50 and is better. You get another set at 54, 56, another teal crit at 58 and Lothlorien crit at 60. You will be wearing new armor every week. Enjoy it. Westfold is exact opposite. You don't see another full set until 75 if you rely on crafting. Westfold recipes are a hodge podge of 5-7 recipes over 11 levels. Then we seem to have three full sets 75 for some reason. I think there is a Mirkwood set but it's reputation and I never got in there before I leveled out of it.

  9. #9
    My two cents. I'm one of those that doesn't level fast, just not interested in getting to cap right away. So, I'll tend to try and craft a full set of guild armor, but it does take pre-planning on getting the symbols before reaching that level. Also, if you have alts it is fun to make a full set of armor for them, if they can use it, to have when they reach level. To Yula's point that up to date armor isn't really necessary to survive, it can still be neat to have a full set for the appearance if it's a nice looking set. Then, if you upgrade later you can use that set as a cosmetic one to keep the appearance.

  10. #10
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    The short answer to your question is this:


    Yes, crafting is kind of dumb right now with the 1 week gate on guild items. Even at level cap it's annoyingly stupid in that you can't help your kin mates out during the 14 days you're trying to make your own gear. What most players end up doing is leveling multiple characters of the same guild. Dumb? Yes, but sadly you're stuck.

    At your level just get Moria gear and the higher 40s crafted stuff. Actually, if you get the teal Moria class armor, it'll hold you over until level 70 when quest gear slowly gets better. Save your medallions and marks so you can get the level 75 dragon armor in Galtrev. That holds you over for a long time.

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  11. #11
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    The solution to your issue is to use the single-use recipes. Yes, they can fail. But materials for L50 gear are plentiful and cheap. If you can get even just a 35% crit chance (can get much higher with the proper scrolls and crafting journal), it won't take much to get a full set of armour. Beryl Shards were going for between 100-300 silver last I checked, or you can just go out and collect them yourself. In addition to randomly dropping, you can get them from dozens of rare elites across the Trollshaws, Misty Mountains, Angmar, Forochel, and Eregion.

    The recipes are actually the more difficult part, but you can just keep an eye on the AH for unopened scrolls, or just save the ones you pick up along your journey to L50.

    Basically, you don't need a 100% crit chance guild recipe to get L50 gear. So no need for the dramatics.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  12. #12
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    If you didn't save the guild symbols beforehand or don't want to wait to save them, then consider using the Ingredient Packs. They replace everything including the shards and guild symbols.
    "Everyone's got one. Better to be a smart one than a dumb one." - me
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post

    What is that?
    http://support.turbine.com/ics/suppo...&basicSearch=1

    You must understand that if nothing is to be found in the official documentation. how is one supposed to know it exists?
    Stone of the Tortoise is a pocket-item you can buy for tp (495 iirc). If you equip it you don't get any xp from kills, crafting or quests. Easier put: You don't level while you have it equipped.

    Normally in LotRO leveling is so fast all gear gets thrashed in a couple of days so no need to go for the best gear really. On my xp-disabled chars (i have a couple) i play different, if i know i'm going to stay on a specific level for a couple of months, then i invest in the best gear i can get. Mostly because i always try to stop at the sweet-spots for old instances, and some of those are still pretty hard on level so decent gear is needed.

    Regards
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  14. #14
    Marancil,

    Basically, any guild armour at the old level caps is very largely irrelevant to you. Now, once you have started to work on your guild reputation, you can start saving patterns/symbols/crests etc etc...and build up a stockpile of them.

    Now, if you are in a kinship, or you have alts, then amking what 'used to be' the best armour is kinda fun. If you have the mats, the guild symbols/crests etc, then why not? (sure isn't needed, and I never bother for my alts, but whatever floats your boat as they say).

    As for the current character you are using, you will out-level the armour so quickly, really not worth crafting 'the best' until you hit level cap where you will be for some time.

    all the crafts are the same, all the guilds the same. it is/was the best in the game (sort of), why would it be easy to make it? The game is so faceroll easy right now, I sometimes wonder if people would like a 'insta level cap and do everything for me' button lol....(please Turbine, ignore my ideas).

    So as others have said, for current character, not much use...go with what you find, rewards, something easier to craft. Once you have built up a stockpile of crafting mats and guild patterns etc...then go ahead and make a shiny old end-game set for a kinnie, alt, friend, whoever

    (Edit: As for those suggesting Moria gear, unless you want to spend time doing the old Moria instances don't bother, seems some people here do either not keep up to date with the game or never play alts. The newer Epic Quest Reward Armour is miles better than than the teal Moria instance stuff...and you get that with no hassle just by doing the epic quests).
    Likes to heal and thinks she is good at it. Unfortunately, can't heal stupid or bad builds...

  15. #15
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    I always felt the 100% crit reicpes from guild where designed to supplement the one shot recipes providing you with an alternative should the odd piece not crit, or the one piece you really needed. Trying to make a full crit set from Guild recipes is going to be as noted a very long process and not what i feel was intended.
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  16. #16
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    Actually you can make ALL crests and trade small ones for medium, medium for large, so it takes a few weeks less.

    And most people make the crests in advance so there is no waiting time at all.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    The short answer to your question is this:


    Yes, crafting is kind of dumb right now with the 1 week gate on guild items. Even at level cap it's annoyingly stupid in that you can't help your kin mates out during the 14 days you're trying to make your own gear. What most players end up doing is leveling multiple characters of the same guild. Dumb? Yes, but sadly you're stuck.

    At your level just get Moria gear and the higher 40s crafted stuff. Actually, if you get the teal Moria class armor, it'll hold you over until level 70 when quest gear slowly gets better. Save your medallions and marks so you can get the level 75 dragon armor in Galtrev. That holds you over for a long time.

    I find Medallions and Marks to be more inheritance than crafting ability right now.

    I did level 84 Ford of Bruinen a few nights ago and got 1 Medallion. The thing was, I got over 200K exper for doing it so do it 6 times and I'm level 85. Banking Marks and Medallions I figure by fourth character I might have enough to get stuff for an at level character? I'm certain id someone leveled a character from 20 to 95 on just Skirm they would have quite a bit more but as of now, the crafting is ahead of Skirm as a source of gear really just because you don't level out of gear so fast by crafting it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    This makes absolutely no sense to me. Am I supposed to stop playing for weeks at a time while waiting for cooldown timers?
    No, you're supposed to move on to the next set of armor a few levels down the road. You certainly can stop and finish crafting the latest set, but there's seldom any use except at level cap when you'll be using the same armor for months.

    And no, there is no change at higher levels. Each future tier works the same way.

  19. #19
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    So continuing on this mission I now realized there is a 8 level gap in the crafted armour for Warden. At level 58 the top notch armour you can craft is the Majestic Marchwarden. After that there seems to be no alternative but to wait until Westfold armour at level 66-68 (Westfold Brushed Skirmish Armour), for which I do not even have an entire recipe set yet, or waste marks at Skirmish camps of course.

    This is not new, the crafting levels for light/medium armour are

    Apprentice: 7 - 12
    Journeyman: 15 - 18 - 20
    Expert: 22 - 25 - 28 - 30
    Artisan: 32 - 35 - 38 - 40
    Master: 42 - 45 - 48 - 50
    Supreme: 51 - 54 - 56 - 58

    Up until 58 I guess it is as good as it gets, but:

    Malledhrim In order to get armour level 60 or 65, you need to barter the recipes from the Malledhrim in Mirkwood. I need to find out whether the armour can be crafted for someone else or if it has the same limitations in usability as the Lossoth sets (bound and reputation standing). You need to have Friend standing to get the recipes vendors at Ost Galadh, just outside the Crafting Hall (no one in the Crafting hall sells or barter these).

    Westfold: starts at 66 ( I do not have enough recipes to list them as above, see the Lotro Wiki... it gets a bit complex... )

    Neumi, if you do the maths you will end up seeing that even if you trade in lesser patterns for major, you will still need approximately the same amount of time to make those lesser patterns. Saving ahead is only viable if you do not use the patterns to increase guild reputation.
    Last edited by Marancil; Nov 27 2014 at 03:51 PM.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    Up until 58 I guess it is as good as it gets, but:

    Malledhrim In order to get armour level 60 or 65, you need to barter the recipes from the Malledhrim in Mirkwood. I need to find out whether the armour can be crafted for someone else or if it has the same limitations in usability as the Lossoth sets (bound and reputation standing). You need to have Friend standing to get the recipes vendors at Ost Galadh, just outside the Crafting Hall (no one in the Crafting hall sells or barter these).
    There's also the Galadhrim set of gear, at level 60. But, the fact that there's Gear at lvl 58, 60 and 65 are just indicative of where the level cap was, and where it was increased.
    Neumi, if you do the maths you will end up seeing that even if you trade in lesser patterns for major, you will still need approximately the same amount of time to make those lesser patterns. Saving ahead is only viable if you do not use the patterns to increase guild reputation.
    Have you actually done the Math?

    Because, to get 6 Large Pattern, it only takes you 22 days if you trade up your 21 Small Patterns, 7(+3) Medium Patterns and 4(+2) Large Patterns.
    As opposed to 36 days it would take you to craft 6 Large Patterns.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penter-Kar View Post
    If you didn't save the guild symbols beforehand or don't want to wait to save them, then consider using the Ingredient Packs. They replace everything including the shards and guild symbols.
    This, plus notice that you can make new alt, finish into, and do 7 vocation quests for some inredient packs.

    It takes some time, but is faster than waiting for CDs.


    Anyway I always prefered to get armor from skirm camp classic vendor.
    fire rk is just hunt clone without evade, ports and lower mits, or LM clone without CC, pets and 1 less gear slot.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaleElven View Post
    Because, to get 6 Large Pattern, it only takes you 22 days if you trade up your 21 Small Patterns, 7(+3) Medium Patterns and 4(+2) Large Patterns.
    As opposed to 36 days it would take you to craft 6 Large Patterns.
    No, I did not calculate it as you seem to have done. What I wrote above is wrong in that sense.

    I based my estimate on a real life condition: Can I do a Small Pattern every 18 hours, will I be able to make sure to make a Medium every 66 hours... etc...?

    Based on that, if you start Friday night at 20.00 you need to get online:
    Saturday at 14:00 - Sunday at 08:00 - Monday at 02:00 - Tuesday at 20:00
    That covers the circle for Small which has to be done 21 times.

    Then you have to combine it with Medium, that occurs every 66 hours... based on the same starting time Friday 20:00.
    Next time would be Monday at 14:00, next after that Thursday at 08:00 and after that Sunday at 02:00, etc... If I got it all right.

    In a way, Large patterns are the easiest.

    Feel free to follow your schedule, HaleElven. I will most certainly not... With this I am not saying you are wrong though, just a bit unrealistic.

    EDIT
    At least them guys at Turbine who invented the time limits could have used 24hr based limits, like..ehem.. 24 and 48 or 72 or even 96... Then it would still be a challenge for time but a controllable one.´

    EDIT 2
    I found a way that may work. It is only a matter of money if it works. You can craft using ingredient packs. A lot of 10 packs costs 175 TP's and you need 10-12 packs for every armour item. They will be bound to the account, but I am not sure whether they will be bound to Character. So if about 1750 TP's is worth it...?
    Last edited by Marancil; Nov 28 2014 at 05:00 PM.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil 107 CHN, Historian | Calchiar 110 CPT, Explorer | Sturmdrang 77 WDN, Woodsman
    Anancite 71 GRD, Armourer | Tarostel 54 HNT, Armsman | Angredeth 97 HNT, Tinker

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    No, I did not calculate it as you seem to have done. What I wrote above is wrong in that sense.

    Day 1: 1 Small, 1 Medium, 1 Large
    Day 2: 2 Small
    Day 3: 3 Small
    Day 4: 4 Small, 2 Medium
    Day 5: 5 Small
    Day 6: 6 Small
    Day 7: 7 Small, 3 Medium
    Day 8: 8 Small, 2 Large
    Day 9: 9 Small
    Day 10: 10 Small, 4 Medium
    Day 11: 11 Small
    Day 12: 12 Small
    Day 13: 13 Small, 5 Medium
    Day 14: 14 Small
    Day 15: 15 Small, 3 Large
    Day 16: 16 Small, 6 Medium
    Day 17: 17 Small
    Day 18: 18 Small
    Day 19: 19 Small, 7 Medium
    Day 20: 20 Small
    Day 21: 21 Small
    Day 22: 4 Large

    22 Days; 21 Small /7 = 3+ 7 Medium /5 = 2+ 4 Large = 6 Large.
    Feel free to follow your schedule, HaleElven. I will most certainly not... With this I am not saying you are wrong though, just a bit unrealistic.
    I won't, because if you recall my first reply in the thread, it's not worth the effort.

    At least them guys at Turbine who invented the time limits could have used 24hr based limits, like..ehem.. 24 and 48 or 72 or even 96... Then it would still be a challenge for time but a controllable one.´
    There was a 24 hour cooldown, but since it was too easy for schedule creep to occur, they reduced all the Guild cooldowns by 6 hours.

    I found a way that may work. It is only a matter of money if it works. You can craft using ingredient packs.
    So, you finally found post #12 in this thread?
    A lot of 10 packs costs 175 TP's and you need 10-12 packs for every armour item. They will be bound to the account, but I am not sure whether they will be bound to Character.
    Like all equipment, it's Bound to Account and Bind on Equip.
    So if about 1750 TP's is worth it...?
    Apparently, you have yet to read post #21 in this thread. *Hint* You may want to do that, because Ingredient Packs can be obtained easily for free.

  24. #24
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    I did not realize the impact of post 21. Vocation quests... hmm... gonna have to look that up.
    The Elruthrim Brethren of Crickhollow
    Malancil 107 CHN, Historian | Calchiar 110 CPT, Explorer | Sturmdrang 77 WDN, Woodsman
    Anancite 71 GRD, Armourer | Tarostel 54 HNT, Armsman | Angredeth 97 HNT, Tinker

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Marancil View Post
    I did not realize the impact of post 21. Vocation quests... hmm... gonna have to look that up.
    a) Create an alt (preferably an Elf or Dwarf, owing to the proximity of the Crafting area).
    b) Complete the introduction.
    c) Go to Crafting area, talk to Master of Apprentices, take a Vocation and do the "Introduction to ..." quests.
    • Become Armorer - Complete Metalsmith/Tailor/Prospector
    • Become Historian - Complete Scholar/Weaponsmith/Farmer
    • Become Tinkerer - Complete Jeweller/Cook
    • Become Woodsman - Complete Woodworker/Forester

    d) After completing all 10 of the quests, the Master of Apprentices will have 7 versions of "Practice Makes Perfect" quest. Each quest will award you 3 Ingredient Packs.
    e) Get the 21 Ingredient Packs. Delete character and Repeat the process.

 

 
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