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  1. #51
    We asked repeatedly for them to hack and slash our chars yet again? First time with skill changes/tree implementation and now with voice and appearance?
    Can someone point me to anything remotely looking like we begged for this change? We begged for raids, we begged for challenge I don't see those being offered.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    We asked repeatedly for them to hack and slash our chars yet again? First time with skill changes/tree implementation and now with voice and appearance? Can someone point me to anything remotely looking like we begged for this change? We begged for raids, we begged for challenge I don't see those being offered.
    I've kept silent about these things, but I see all kinds of requests all the time being made, and on every update and expansion, there is always some people who are displeased, and my observation is, you can never please everybody at the same time.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jillymala View Post
    We asked repeatedly for them to hack and slash our chars yet again? First time with skill changes/tree implementation and now with voice and appearance?
    Can someone point me to anything remotely looking like we begged for this change? We begged for raids, we begged for challenge I don't see those being offered.
    Look at of the comments on LotRO blogs and fansites, look at the Hobbits to Isengard Q&As, look at the Ask the LotRO Team/20 Questions, look here on the forums - basically anywhere people are talking about LotRO you will see many, many people asking for updated avatars. It comes up every single Hobbit run at least once.

    Quote Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes View Post
    Indeed. That could be achieved by adding additional body & head options at creation and by putting in a (store purchased) means to allow people to buy a re-spec if they so want to change them.
    I wonder if people would be satisfied with rebuilding their avatar if they had to buy it in the store. I think it would be something people would buy if they could, and could justify the work in creating a system to handle that. If it's even possible in the first place...

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyzau View Post
    I love the update to the male elves. There is more maleness, and the default ballet pose is finally gone. Please keep the new model!

    On a sidenote their shoulders are still too broad making their armpits stand out too far from the chest, but this is the same on the old and the new model, so I guess that's not going to change. Would love to see that in better proportion to their tiny waists as well.
    I don't think there's any need to make male elves look more "manly", because those who want to can choose a manlier head and move the slider to the right to get more muscles. This update lets people still make "manly" elves, but removes the option for people like me to make elegant slim elves. Not everyone should have too look like they're out in the woods fighting all day
    I'm all for options, but let it stay as options! Let us choose if we want the new looks or keep the old look.
    Let me keep the look of my elves the way I made them, please Turbine! If I had wanted to play a manly man with a wider waist and big muscles, I would have moved the slider to the right. I'm very happy with my gentle and elegant elves, and I would be very very sad and upset to see them all turn into beefy slouching thugs

    A comment on the sidenote: I don't feel the shoulders are too broad as such (at least not for the thinnest elves), I think they fit the head size, but I've noticed that it looks like there's something wrong under the arms. Like a tiny piece is pushed into the arm (sorry it's hard to explain in English ). It's like their arms have been ever so slightly pinched but it looks fine most of the time, and I'm thinking that fixing it might mess up the look of lots of outfits? I don't notice it at all in some outfits, and never during movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Look at of the comments on LotRO blogs and fansites, look at the Hobbits to Isengard Q&As, look at the Ask the LotRO Team/20 Questions, look here on the forums - basically anywhere people are talking about LotRO you will see many, many people asking for updated avatars. It comes up every single Hobbit run at least once.
    I've seen lots of people ask for more head and hairstyle options, and more sliders to change bodyshape, and sliders to get added to the barber so you can change your mind after character creation. But I've only seen a few people ask for things to get removed so something they prefer can take it's place. No one is against people getting new looks, we're against our looks to get changed to what other people like, and what other people want us to look like.


    This is a rare community we're in. In other games I get taunted constantly for my soft and gentle-looking male characters, but in LOTRO it has only happened once Please Turbine, if you're going to bring this to Live, give us an option to keep the look we chose.
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    I've seen lots of people ask for more head and hairstyle options, and more sliders to change bodyshape, and sliders to get added to the barber so you can change your mind after character creation. But I've only seen a few people ask for things to get removed so something they prefer can take it's place.
    I don't think that type of phrasing would ever happen. People don't ask for something to be removed and something else to take its place, they say, "I want this changed, or I want that fixed, or I want the other thing updated." People have said that they feel the avatars look blocky and outdated, they've wanted new graphics or updates to make them look on par with current MMO standards, they've said they are sick of NPCs looking better than their characters, they've said the avatars haven't stood the test of time, etc. etc.

    I'd be willing to bet that most people who want updated avatar graphics would prefer it if people had the opportunity to rework their avatar model using something similar to the character creation panel. Although for my part, I'd take an improvement such as the ones we are seeing on beta right now, without options to edit/revise avatars, over nothing at all.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I don't think that type of phrasing would ever happen. People don't ask for something to be removed and something else to take its place,
    Sadly it does. People who like to create male characters who look soft, gentle or even feminine notice it more than people who don't like that character look. The reason for that is that there's not many people like me (who makes softer male characters) who hates muscles and "manly" men so much that we want to stop others from having big strong male characters, but there are quite a bit of people who have a phobia of men who look feminine in their eyes and actually want to remove the option completely

    The problem with this new change is that it actually removes an option. The male elves' waists look wider and they lean forward in a threatening way and even if you slide the slider all the way to the left, you'll still end up with a beefier and more human-like elf than what I wanted for all my many characters.

    Again, I don't want to stop others getting this change, but I do want to stop having to have my own characters changed into something someone else want them to look like The new look don't go well with spending all day playing a flute and writing poetry.
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    Sadly it does. People who like to create male characters who look soft, gentle or even feminine notice it more than people who don't like that character look. The reason for that is that there's not many people like me (who makes softer male characters) who hates muscles and "manly" men so much that we want to stop others from having big strong male characters, but there are quite a bit of people who have a phobia of men who look feminine in their eyes and actually want to remove the option completely

    The problem with this new change is that it actually removes an option. The male elves' waists look wider and they lean forward in a threatening way and even if you slide the slider all the way to the left, you'll still end up with a beefier and more human-like elf than what I wanted for all my many characters.

    Again, I don't want to stop others getting this change, but I do want to stop having to have my own characters changed into something someone else want them to look like The new look don't go well with spending all day playing a flute and writing poetry.
    Interesting. I am exactly the same way as you; I play skinny, effeminate male characters almost exclusively. The human male in the new system is OK but I wish the skinny chest was a tad skinnier. But the male elf - I love it. The only thing I really wish to see tweaked is the elbow position, so that, as you say, he doesn't look quite so thuggish. Either that or the shoulders narrowed a bit. Right now he does look a more menacing than before. But I feel like the new stance is much more natural. I didn't like how the old stance made him look like he was always falling backward, and certain outfits looked a bit awkward on him. My main, Rhovanael, is much improved in this regard with the new stance. I spent a lot of time trying on clothes and looking at his outfits to see how the new look worked out, and I think he looks great - seems to be standing a bit more comfortably and naturally. But I am ALWAYS in favour of skinnier options, so if a skinnier look would make you happy, it would make me happy too. After all, when I made my characters, I purposely chose for them to be thin and lithe.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    The problem with this new change is that it actually removes an option. The male elves' waists look wider and they lean forward in a threatening way and even if you slide the slider all the way to the left, you'll still end up with a beefier and more human-like elf than what I wanted for all my many characters.

    Again, I don't want to stop others getting this change, but I do want to stop having to have my own characters changed into something someone else want them to look like The new look don't go well with spending all day playing a flute and writing poetry.
    Well said. The problem with a unilateral update and replacement of avatars is that it will not "cure" everyone from 'toon appearance dissatisfaction.' It will not make everyone happy. Catering to the vocal group who want updates means simply alienating the vocal group that does not want updates forced upon them.

    What we have on Bullroarer right now is not really an avatar update: this is simply a replacement of one look by another. There is nothing inherently better in the new look. As the divided opinions here show, simply replacing one look by another does not suddenly lead to universal player consensus and acceptance. It is just another limited artistic interpretation, just as prone to criticism as the original version.

    Here is another visual reference on the male elf avatar changes.


    For the sake of being specific in my feedback:

    As commented earlier, what I find most disagreeable about the new look is the posture. This posture says: "Gimme that cash or I'll bounce you around the yard." The new beefier arms on the "thin" avatar really don't help the situation either. The bend in the elbow is too tense, and the head is leaning forward in a threatening manner. This is the iconic stance of a yard bully.

    I could see this working for a hobbit or dwarf avatar who are stockier and more earthy - but this posture looks grievously wrong for an elf. That is not how a gentleman scholar would stand.


    Suggestions for improvement:

    -In terms of posture, keep the head and the arms the way they are on live. The original head is already straight, not leaning forward, not looking down - there is nothing wrong with it as is.

    -The original arms and hands look more relaxed, the way they are on live. This makes the avatar as a whole look more relaxed and at peace. Part of the problem with the Bullroarer model is that the new arms look stiff and too posed, like plastic arms of some action figure. The hands are too grippy too. As if some kid was playing around with this plastic elf guy and bent its arms awkwardly to equip it with some guns but then got bored with it and left it standing around just like that. You don't want a new avatar looking this stiff.
    Please relieve the tension in the poor fella's arms - and hands - and let them hang down more naturally. And more gracefully. This is an elf we're talking about, after all. Not a lumberjack. Elegance and grace are characteristics of this race, and the default avatar succeeds in conveying them. Any attempted revisions to the elf avatar should retain those iconic characteristics.

    -Speaking of elegance and grace: please retain the default thinness of the arms on the "thin" avatar, the way it stands on live. Players have adjusted the sliders at character creation to arrive at the proportions that they wanted. Those who want to give their characters beefier arms already have that option - simply moving the slider to the right. Please do not remove the option of a thin look for those who want that - and who have precisely created their characters with that look already. This would only be fair.

    -And to conclude: Please only implement avatar updates as additions, not as replacements. Let everyone keep what they want.
    Last edited by Herwegur; Mar 17 2014 at 11:03 PM.
    Éala Éarendel engla beorhtast / ofer middangeard monnum sended / and sodfasta sunnan leoma, / tohrt ofer tunglas þu tida gehvane / of sylfum þe symle inlihtes.

  9. #59
    This is another change that seems to be a change just for the sake of change.

    Yes, people have been clamoring for improved player models. But by that they mostly mean the face and hair. It would be nice if Middle Earth wasn't full of clones. If you can't change it, why not add new faces and hairstyles? People have been clamoring for new hair for years. Not changing the body mesh.

    And the new male elf pose seems out of place. The old one is a bit silly, but elves are supposed to be proud and haughty and graceful. This new pose makes them look like cavemen.

  10. #60
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    My suggestion for elves (I tried to draw it):



    Anyway.. nothing will make everyone happy. But keeping the old avatars as an option would be acceptable for most, I guess.

  11. #61
    Of course it would be nice if players could choose the postures of their characters as well, but I don't think such change is in the cards. I am very pleased that the issue of body postures is addressed, especially regarding the male elf body pose, which to me has always appeared very contrived and unnatural. The new posture looks much more natural to me.
    In the current posture on live the legs are slightly bent (like a ballet dancer), causing the heels of the feet to stand off the ground, as if their main weight is on the front of their feet. In the new posture their legs are straighter and their balance in relation to the ground is corrected. In addition, arms are heavy. When in a relaxed position they fall right next to the hips. In the live version the arms are held in front of the hips and too far away from the hips (like a ballet dancer does in first position). This has been corrected as well and looks more natural now.

    It may still not be perfect but it sure looks a lot better in the new version. It's not about thin or thick, slim or fat, muscled or skinny, as that can be adjusted with the sliders. It's about presenting a more natural body pose when standing up.

    I really hope the new male elf will make it to live.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyzau View Post
    It's not about thin or thick, slim or fat, muscled or skinny, as that can be adjusted with the sliders.
    Unfortunately, the core of the issue is that it cannot be adjusted with sliders for already existing characters (in this bullroarer build). Due to body proportions being altered, the new 'thin' at extreme left of the slider now has thicker arms than the default live version at same extreme left of the slider. Characters that were created on live with that proportion in mind (slider at extreme left) no longer have that proportion on Bullroarer. They are now stuck looking not as they were intended by player creating them. It's as if the slider had been ninja-moved to the right without the player's consent.
    This is what I meant earlier, when asking for the original extreme-left-slider proportion (the live version) to be retained for those who want it. A request for a broader spectrum on the slider.


    The comparison of the original elf body pose to a ballet dancer had occurred to me as well - but I find nothing negative in that. On the contrary, to me it conveys fluidity and elasticity. Agility and grace of the Eldar. Dignified, majestic.

    If the new body pose is meant to be any more natural, then it's a huge step backwards and it fails at the task. For the life of me, I simply cannot see what is more natural in hulking around like a hunchbacked neanderthal. The default ballet dancer is now replaced by a street-corner thug. On my elf character, I find this new pose grievously offensive.



    Please make the changes optional, and let everyone keep what they like. It has great potential to bring more diversity to the game, but if these changes are applied against player choice it would only bring controversy and disappointment.

    If there is no plan to make these changes optional, please do not introduce such changes and let everyone keep what they have.

    As this thread shows, there is no unanimous player consensus regarding avatar appearance, nor can there ever be. It is a matter of personal preference and taste. If the avatar options cannot be expanded, simply replacing them for someone else's idea of how characters should look will not solve anything.
    Éala Éarendel engla beorhtast / ofer middangeard monnum sended / and sodfasta sunnan leoma, / tohrt ofer tunglas þu tida gehvane / of sylfum þe symle inlihtes.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyzau View Post
    I really hope the new male elf will make it to live.
    I am not at all surprised to see another cosmetics fanatic who is happy with the direction of the changes to the Elven male. Don't you find outfits seem to work a lot better now? A lot of my annoyances with this are resolved with the new stance.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I am not at all surprised to see another cosmetics fanatic who is happy with the direction of the changes to the Elven male. Don't you find outfits seem to work a lot better now? A lot of my annoyances with this are resolved with the new stance.
    Absolutely. However I have no doubts that new anomalies will have been introduced as well. Just take a look at the enormous pointy Bombur-butt on the Dwarf wearing the Robe of the Learned. So /cheer, but also /sigh... here we go again.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyzau View Post
    Absolutely. However I have no doubts that new anomalies will have been introduced as well. Just take a look at the enormous pointy Bombur-butt on the Dwarf wearing the Robe of the Learned. So /cheer, but also /sigh... here we go again.
    Yeah, there's always potential for a can of worms being opened, but I tried on a LOT of clothing with the various characters I have and so far haven't seen anything too strange. *crosses fingers*

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star-Man_1976 View Post
    I've kept silent about these things, but I see all kinds of requests all the time being made, and on every update and expansion, there is always some people who are displeased, and my observation is, you can never please everybody at the same time.
    Performing such a feat is indeed challenging.

    In this case however, finding a way to let players chooose between keeping their current appearanced and changing to the new, would go a length's way.

    Why not let us re-evaluate our body sliders at will, and make that body-slider 'twice as long' as it is now, with one half the old bodies and the other half the new bodies?

    Or a toggle that let's us pick the slider we want: old shape slider or new shape slider.

    It's likely far more difficult than how easy I make it sound though.

  17. #67
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    I am not a big fan of this change.

    The changed character models do not make them look "modern" anyway. They look as old as before, and I am fine with that. If I were to guess about the reason, I would think of cosmetics and clipping issues with many items, specially boots and shoulder items. I have a big collection of those and some would only look proper - without cutting the back or legs - on a specific race/gender combination.

    I also consider myself lucky since the changes to the women's model are acceptable (not needed, not asked for, but ok) for me and most of my endgame characters are women. I do have one female hobbit, one female elf and one man among my frequently played classes and changes to all of those feel wrong. My elf-lady lost her grace and the man became way too slouchy. I hope to be able to hide some of these changes by choosing a new outfit though.

    From what I see the changes to male hobbits, elves and dwarfs are drastic. I can't tell whether they look better or worse now - it is a matter of personal taste - but they do look different. If I would be playing one of those for several years, I would be furious for sure. I have several friends who chose really fat dwarfs or hobbits in the past to be their main characters, now I wonder what their opinion about this change will be.
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  18. #68
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    As fas as I've understood, the "begging" has been for more options, not a complete unnecessary makeover of what we have.

    Let's just see how these new shiny avatars look in a group or raid... but oh wait.... never mind.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herwegur View Post
    ...
    What we have on Bullroarer right now is not really an avatar update: this is simply a replacement of one look by another. There is nothing inherently better in the new look. As the divided opinions here show, simply replacing one look by another does not suddenly lead to universal player consensus and acceptance. It is just another limited artistic interpretation, just as prone to criticism as the original version.

    ...
    Well said, there is nothing more to add to the current update.

    I just want to mention that any character look update should really improve it, not to just change it in barely noticeable way. Something I can imagine for LOTRO is below on few screenshots of characters from another MMO and those looks pretty nice (in realms of MMO games). Forget the asian stylization, but you get the idea especially about head/faces qualities...

    http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...k8ivg73jpg.jpg
    http://forevergamering.files.wordpre...r-male-elf.jpg
    http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/CW0XP####dQ/maxresdefault.jpg
    http://gamehaunt.com/media/BlackDese...rSelection.jpg
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainothon View Post
    In this case however, finding a way to let players chooose between keeping their current appearanced and changing to the new, would go a length's way.

    Why not let us re-evaluate our body sliders at will, and make that body-slider 'twice as long' as it is now, with one half the old bodies and the other half the new bodies?

    Or a toggle that let's us pick the slider we want: old shape slider or new shape slider.

    It's likely far more difficult than how easy I make it sound though.
    I'd love to have an option to keep the old look for my characters, while at the same time letting those who want the new version get the new version, so a toggle between old version and new version would be very welcome

    Though Sapience commented on the latest livestream that toggles for having new and keeping old would be "twice the work" and maybe not likely, and in that case I think old should stay since we got to choose what we wanted our characters to look like, and now someone else with different likes and dislikes will make completely new characters for me.
    /cry

    Also, it's not just the posture that changes the way the male elves look. The new thinnest elves have wider waist and more muscles, so the option to make gentle elegant male elves will be completely gone if this goes through.

    I'm not against the new male elf body shape being added, but I'm very upset about having all my elegant and beautiful male elves be forced into the new rough "manlier" look with wider waist, more muscles and slouching posture.

    I know there are people who hate "feminine" men so much that they want no one making characters like that, not even complete strangers that they'll rarely come across. But this is such a nice community and people like that seems to be few (most who hate gentle looking men here in LOTRO don't mind others having characters like that), so even people like me can feel accepted here, so please please Turbine, don't take away my slim and elegant and beautiful male elves I have so many of them and I don't like to play the other races since I can't make them look other than really really rugged, so I'll have no characters left to play if you do

    This is a huge worry to me, I've put so much into my characters and I don't want to have them taken away.
    ;) “There are hundreds of paths up the mountain, all leading to the same place, so it doesn’t matter which path you take. The only person wasting time is the one who runs around the mountain, telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.” ~ Hindu Proverb

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmelin View Post
    I'd love to have an option to keep the old look for my characters, while at the same time letting those who want the new version get the new version, so a toggle between old version and new version would be very welcome

    Though Sapience commented on the latest livestream that toggles for having new and keeping old would be "twice the work" and maybe not likely, and in that case I think old should stay since we got to choose what we wanted our characters to look like, and now someone else with different likes and dislikes will make completely new characters for me.
    /cry

    Also, it's not just the posture that changes the way the male elves look. The new thinnest elves have wider waist and more muscles, so the option to make gentle elegant male elves will be completely gone if this goes through.

    I'm not against the new male elf body shape being added, but I'm very upset about having all my elegant and beautiful male elves be forced into the new rough "manlier" look with wider waist, more muscles and slouching posture.

    I know there are people who hate "feminine" men so much that they want no one making characters like that, not even complete strangers that they'll rarely come across. But this is such a nice community and people like that seems to be few (most who hate gentle looking men here in LOTRO don't mind others having characters like that), so even people like me can feel accepted here, so please please Turbine, don't take away my slim and elegant and beautiful male elves I have so many of them and I don't like to play the other races since I can't make them look other than really really rugged, so I'll have no characters left to play if you do

    This is a huge worry to me, I've put so much into my characters and I don't want to have them taken away.
    Don't forget that this is beta, and the whole point of this post was to get feedback. It's not productive to respond to this as though it's final. Raina was just looking for our feedback/input, so I think it might be better for us to give her a detailed list of the elements that we like/dislike, a sense of how strong our feelings are about each one, and suggestions for improvements we could live with.

    For example, if you could live with the new male elf if it was a bit thinner, or if certain adjustments were made to the pose, then I think it would be helpful to outline that in some detail.

  22. #72
    Right now, every single person playing the game can live with existing avatar appearances and vocals. Any person truly hating existing options already left.

    Unilaterally changing avatar appearances and vocals 7 years in will please some, outrage others, and generate a range of responses between those extremes. The ones who respond with pleasure or indifference gain you nothing--they already play. The ones who respond with displeasure and hate may well leave and take friends with them, losing you revenue. How many new players will you attract by changing the posture, shape, and vocals of avatars without offering a single new option? I wager absolutely none.

    So here you are, after upsetting players with class changes, after upsetting players with difficulty changes, after upsetting players with new instance mechanics, getting ready to upset players again with forced avatar changes. We may quibble about how many players are negatively affected by each line item, but they add up.

    Smart and profitable companies increase market share by offering customers additional options. When the people running Coca Cola company decide to launch a new beverage, they do not discontinue the production of Coke. If they cannot gain market share launching a new beverage, if they lack the production resources, they simply do not launch it.

    I respect the desire of whatever developer worked on this project to improve the game, but this idea simply changes the game, gaining no new customers while potentially upsetting some portion of the existing customer base. It is a loser. If you cannot afford to do it right by offering new avatar options, do not waste time on it at all.

  23. #73
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    Thumbs up

    I really like the new skinny male elf update - no more strange stuck out chest for my LM!

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    4,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    Right now, every single person playing the game can live with existing avatar appearances and vocals. Any person truly hating existing options already left.

    Unilaterally changing avatar appearances and vocals 7 years in will please some, outrage others, and generate a range of responses between those extremes. The ones who respond with pleasure or indifference gain you nothing--they already play. The ones who respond with displeasure and hate may well leave and take friends with them, losing you revenue. How many new players will you attract by changing the posture, shape, and vocals of avatars without offering a single new option? I wager absolutely none.

    So here you are, after upsetting players with class changes, after upsetting players with difficulty changes, after upsetting players with new instance mechanics, getting ready to upset players again with forced avatar changes. We may quibble about how many players are negatively affected by each line item, but they add up.

    Smart and profitable companies increase market share by offering customers additional options. When the people running Coca Cola company decide to launch a new beverage, they do not discontinue the production of Coke. If they cannot gain market share launching a new beverage, if they lack the production resources, they simply do not launch it.

    I respect the desire of whatever developer worked on this project to improve the game, but this idea simply changes the game, gaining no new customers while potentially upsetting some portion of the existing customer base. It is a loser. If you cannot afford to do it right by offering new avatar options, do not waste time on it at all.
    I have to go with this completely and apply it to the new battle shouts as well.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    GLADDEN SERVER
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    Right now, every single person playing the game can live with existing avatar appearances and vocals. Any person truly hating existing options already left.

    Unilaterally changing avatar appearances and vocals 7 years in will please some, outrage others, and generate a range of responses between those extremes. The ones who respond with pleasure or indifference gain you nothing--they already play. The ones who respond with displeasure and hate may well leave and take friends with them, losing you revenue. How many new players will you attract by changing the posture, shape, and vocals of avatars without offering a single new option? I wager absolutely none.

    So here you are, after upsetting players with class changes, after upsetting players with difficulty changes, after upsetting players with new instance mechanics, getting ready to upset players again with forced avatar changes. We may quibble about how many players are negatively affected by each line item, but they add up.

    Smart and profitable companies increase market share by offering customers additional options. When the people running Coca Cola company decide to launch a new beverage, they do not discontinue the production of Coke. If they cannot gain market share launching a new beverage, if they lack the production resources, they simply do not launch it.

    I respect the desire of whatever developer worked on this project to improve the game, but this idea simply changes the game, gaining no new customers while potentially upsetting some portion of the existing customer base. It is a loser. If you cannot afford to do it right by offering new avatar options, do not waste time on it at all.
    Exactly, if it's not brought as option, it's not worth implementing at all, so I'd suggest, keep these changes somewhere in the back, work on an implementation to provide it as option, and than bring it with update 14 or something. That would also allow for a bit more time to process the feedback, potentially add some more options, and maybe even the ability to change these settings after creation (like the barber, but than with all character options). The last one can even give some way to monetize these changes.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

 

 
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