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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Apart from, y'know, that bit about hobbits going on adventures, and not all the hobbits living in the Shire in the first place. As opposed to the Druedain saying they won't fight (they'd only hunt any Orcs that trespassed on their lands) and that they wouldn't leave the woods.

    Less sarcasm, more lore
    Most hobbits scoff at the notion of going on adventures, yet that doesn't stop the 1000s around Middle Earth. Who's to say that there isn't a similar sentiment among the Druedain? No group of people is uniformly of one opinion or another. All it would take is 1 Druedain leaving home to go on an adventure to open up the lore. And just because it wasn't explicitly mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't likely to happen.

    Various things people have suggested already. Knights, or a champ/hunter hybrid. Guardsmen of the Citadel (like that Beregond chap). That sort of thing.
    It's people like you that make it so that my oatmeal variety packs still contain Plain flavor. And why they make just yogurt. And unfrosted mini-wheats. Shouldn't you be off doing a word search on your beige couch?
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  2. #252
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    I would rather like to hear news about a new monster class
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  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Most hobbits scoff at the notion of going on adventures, yet that doesn't stop the 1000s around Middle Earth. Who's to say that there isn't a similar sentiment among the Druedain? No group of people is uniformly of one opinion or another. All it would take is 1 Druedain leaving home to go on an adventure to open up the lore. And just because it wasn't explicitly mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't likely to happen.

    It's people like you that make it so that my oatmeal variety packs still contain Plain flavor. And why they make just yogurt. And unfrosted mini-wheats. Shouldn't you be off doing a word search on your beige couch?
    The Druedain were Stone Age hunter-gatherer types who keept themselves to themselves for good reason: other Men persecuted them. The Rohirrim hunted them like beasts. That's why it's not likely to happen. It's just a mind-bogglingly silly suggestion to want to turn these guys into player-characters. They're like the Lossoth, they've got a particular lifestyle in a particular place and they stick to it. They're obvious NPCs, given the way they're presented.

    You have read the book, right? Or did you skip all the talking and only read the exciting bits? Oh, and by the way my couch actually has a cheerfully colourful Middle Eastern pattern

  4. #254
    In the hypothetical sense that they new class is a shapeshifter, just gonna offer my two cents on what I wanna see.

    Tank tree:
    Bear Form and Threat Increase on relevent sbilities.
    Abilities/Skills would be on the lines of:
    Maul, deals physical damage + threat to one target
    Swipe, AoE physical damage + AoE threat, 5-10 second cooldown
    Roar, force taunt, AoE threat with skill tree points

    DPS tree
    Bear Form (smaller, maybe?) minus +threat buff.
    Maul and Swipe, minus the +threat buffs
    Gnaw (or Crunch/Bite), damage + physical DoT

    Healer tree
    Access to Bear Form, but can use heal skills only in human form.
    Skills would be similar to how a Herbalist could be described.
    Soothing Herb, applies a HoT + Power over time with skill tree point(s).
    Quick Herb, short induction, medium morale recovery
    Mending Herbs, 2.5 second induction, big morale heal

    Skills Used by All 3 Trees:
    Claw (turns into Maul for tank/dps trees), only in bear form
    Bash, interupt, +stun for tank/dps trees
    Cure Poison, +Disease and one aditional debuff with healer skill tree

    Medium Armour, +mitigation for tank tree, +physical mastery and mitigation for DPS tree, +tactical mastery & mitigation for healer
    Wields clubs, staves and axes (dual wielding at higher level -or- only dps tree)
    Maybe shields, if it can be a healer tree only.
    Class LI could be a totem. "Bear" totems give mitigations and parry. "Tiger" totems give damage or +1-3 targets on some abolities, "Monkey" totems give boosts to tactical mastery or +healing%. Craftable by woodworkers, with some needs from Jeweller.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnanDoha View Post
    And why not, a class based on "Druedain" ?

    the savage main could be the base for a sort of druid-class, no?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr%C3%BAedain
    These druedain, are these the little people-like creatures that are described as "slaves of Angmar" around...I think it's called Ost Gorthad? These are little people that are definitely not hobbits. I've read The Hobbit and the trilogy once through but am no where near well versed on all the lore.
    Crickhollow---Citridyla, Ythrondis, and Hraf. Meneldor--Dockerson, Kariadriel and Thasgar. Gladden--Gamoskorin, Henessy, and Lanthreldras. Firefoot--Amberson and Liedvar. Brandywine--Audny, Egilwine, and Gardihauk. I'm an altoholic, pie-eating fool! :)

  6. #256

    Seer

    From what I can see, everyone is busy looking at the lore or role distributions alone for answers. I'm going to place my mark on Seer and make mention of the role the trait trees played in preparation for it.

    Seers had incredible senses of foretelling. As a person who loved their pre-trait-tree system Rune Keeper, I'd like to point out abilities that are now missing from the game entirely, as far as I know.
    Do Not Fall This Day: a pre-emptive revive ***EDIT: A member of our kinship reminded me that this ability does still exist for RKs, but why should RKs be the only class with a pre-emptive revive, eh? ***
    Do Not Fall to [Element]: pre-emptive elemental defense for the fellowship
    Fall to X: Both the legendary and elemental versions of skills that had a chance to apply extra damage when damage was given
    Their Weapons Will Not Harm Us: pre-emptive debuff removal and temporary resistance to debuffs
    That Which Does Not Kill Us: applies a large boost to allies for a minute or two until they receive damage. Upon receiving damage, this ability applied a short duration heavy heal over time

    These abilities were removed when the trait trees came about. The trait trees, then, made it possible. Seers were very influential in Middle Earth lore. One even gave one of the kings of old a name that meant "The Last King" because he fortold that unless he took a very unlikely course before him, he would be the last of that line of kings, and it was so. Someone else can give a more proper quote than I.

    It could easily be a defensive spellcaster like some have suggested, with buffing and debuffing capabilities. There could even be counterspells, reflective damage abilities, and/or reaction abilities such as "use X ability, if Y happens to target, then z reaction ability available".

    Best of all, it's a class, not having anything to do with race.
    Last edited by Leggyless; Mar 19 2014 at 11:54 AM.

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Luthien did as well, as a disguise - she borrowed the vampire shape that Thuringwethil had used for flying messages to and from Angband (so we're told).
    Okay, I couldn't remember that.

  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by theFragmagnet View Post
    Clearly the new class will be a bartender/inn-keeper, inspired by Barliman Butterbur.

    In all seriousness...

    I seem to remember that the Tolkien IP turbine is allowed to use is limited to the Lord of the Rings and its appendices. This precludes using Hobbit IP (i.e. Beornings). (Not sure how the Flight to Erebor instances were ok though...).

    Considering the statement made that the trait tree changes would enable a future class change I would expect that the new class will be some sort of hybrid class that draws from the hunter (Ranged DPS) and melee (Champ/guard/warden) classes. Another thought is that this would be tied into where the Epic story is going. That could be something like a true Ranger class like the Grey Company (good ranged, good hand-to-hand, limited healing), or something along the lines of Rohirrim or soldier of Gondor.

    Either way I'm pretty excited about this...
    Because it's something happening in the future (during the siege of Minas Tirith until shortly after the destruction of the One Ring) and not in the past loike the Hobbit. The background is the siege of the Erebor which is mentioned in the end of LotR/the appendices in the previous stated time.

    Only the name "Smaug's Fire" is a little bit controversial, but when it is just mentioned in the appendices (what I don't know right now) there wouldn't be/wasn't any problem about that specific case.

    Orodbril

  9. #259
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    @Gedrevn Awesome summary of facts and reasons

    I can't wait for the well known excuse "it was proposed by the community" ™

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gedrevn View Post

    Why this is probably the case.
    - After the Battle of Five Armies in the Hobbit, Northmen gathered around Beorn and created the descendants of Beorn, or Beornings. In the events leading up to the War of the Ring, Beornings helped Aragorn. (Lore connection, mentioned in the Trilogy, sets the stage for a class of Men who help out in LoTR)

    - The descendants of Beorn were skin-changers. (Really obvious class-capable skill)

    - Beorning is the crowdsource consensus so far. Other options are pretty weak and ill-defined:
    • Bounder – Already exists, primarily hobbit, limited combat in lore, no reason to leave the Shire.
    • Ranger – Already exists, too similar to Hunter
    • Dúnedain – Most likely other option, still not well defined, generic fighting class
    • Drúedain – Not well known, only mentioned once in the Trilogy
    • Shaman / Necromancer – Not lore appropriate for Freep races
    • Knight – Too generic, hard to separate from Guard/Warden/Captain
    • Sage – Already exists, hard to niche between LM, Minstrel, and RK
    • Seer – Too narrow, Only mentioned once in the Trilogy, specifically limited to foresight of the future
    • Miner/Tracker – Not really a class more of a skill
    • Werewolf – Lore limited to race for the most part, lore limited to servant of Morgoth
    • Oathbreaker – Dead and limited in scope to what they’re allowed to do in the lore.
    • Guardsmen of the Citadel - Very narrow focus, out of place before Gondor, non-differentiated class, rank already exists in PvP
    • Corsair – Not lore appropriate to Freeps

    - Fits easily into the current class/trait setup. Such as: Red line – melee damage bear form, Blue Line – Man/Bear tank, Yellow Line – Man chieftain buff line
    Just a few notes:

    1. point: In LotR mentioned fellows of the Free Peoples are all most likely to help someone or have done something good, otherwise why should they have been mentioned there? It's just a too general argument which is applicable to nearly any suggested class...

    2. point: More the other way around, it is something they have by birth and not something they learn with ongoing experience.

    3. and 4. point: You just tell your opinions on how the classes could be set up to easily disprove them. But there are other possible set ups for these suggestions which would also fit easily into the trait setup, while you are just proving it for your own idea, which is mainly parallel to the captains trait linesm just that the yellow line is represented through all three lines and replaced by healing and then switched the colour of the heal and the tank line...

    E.g. there is no light-armoured buffing class while having the standard heal and dps-line like the other light-armoured classes and also a light-armoured tank is missing using evading and mobility to not get hit or a medium-armoured healing class which uses its expertise as well practiced healer to quickly (agility) treat a wound or tomix and give the poisoned person an antitoxin and similar. Various ways and distributions are possible and also the ranger doesn't need to be resemble a hunter when it uses new mechanics and other trait lines/roles like a suggestion I had previous. These examples should just show that the last two "arguments" are no real arguments, it's just a opinion rather than a fact and you bent it so that it would fit your argumentation.

    Orodbril

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leggyless View Post
    These abilities were removed when the trait trees came about. The trait trees, then, made it possible. Seers were very influential in Middle Earth lore. One even gave one of the kings of old a name that meant "The Last King" because he fortold that unless he took a very unlikely course before him, he would be the last of that line of kings, and it was so. Someone else can give a more proper quote than I.
    From Wikipedia:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    Arvedui was the son of King Araphant of Arthedain. He was born in T.A. 1864 and came to the throne in 1964 at the death of his father. His name meant Last king, and he was named so because of a prophecy by Malbeth the Seer:

    "Arvedui you shall call him, for he will be the last in Arthedain. Though a choice will come to the Dúnedain, and if they take the one that seems less hopeful, then your son will change his name and become king of a great realm. If not, then much sorrow and many lives of men shall pass, until the Dúnedain arise and are united again." — Appendix A: "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion"



    That should fit it

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieArtisan View Post
    These druedain, are these the little people-like creatures that are described as "slaves of Angmar" around...I think it's called Ost Gorthad? These are little people that are definitely not hobbits. I've read The Hobbit and the trilogy once through but am no where near well versed on all the lore.
    The Drúedain and their leader, Ghân-buri-Ghân, play a prominent part in the third book. They guide the Rohirrim through the Drúadan forest along the Stonewain valley in order to bypass the army of Orcs waiting north of the forest to intercept them in Anorien. Gives the Rohirrim a clear shot at reinforcing the good guys at the Battle of the Fields of Pelennor without having to fight through an orc army on the way.

    They look like the statues that line the switchback road up to Dunharrow. More info here.
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  13. #263
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    Maybe the lore would have to be adjusted a bit for Druedain to be played as an actual character, but Turbine has mostly done a good job for balancing gameplay and tweaking of the lore. For me, I want the class to be able to be played by one of the existing races.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
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  14. #264
    It seems to me relevant to note that they spoke of a new class - not a new race. My first guess would be a set of skills that could be applied to one or more existing race.
    Meadowlarke Sweetweed on Landroval. Also nephews and Bounders Ayrhawk, Wrennsong, and Little Meadowlark Sweetweed
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  15. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLotroFan View Post
    It would only really be "one" running around Bree. It would be yours as the epic story only focuses on your character. Otherwise everyone would be helping Aragorn reforge Narsil
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLotroFan View Post
    While it is an MMO from the POV of the story that plays out there is only ever ONE "hero" that is running around middle earth doing good deeds.
    There are parts of the story that *require* (or used to require, and still would if LOTRO was balanced appropriately) more than one person. Lots of parts even!

    So please don't make false statements about the story of LOTRO.

    If you indeed only play by yourself ("ONE 'hero' ") then you've missed out on and/or will miss out on many, many, many parts of the story.
    Last edited by Ithrien; Mar 18 2014 at 12:00 AM.
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  16. #266
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    Just having fun speculating...


    The more I think about the possibilities the more I think this new class might be jump started at level 50 rather than start at level 1. Maybe (just maybe) an intro instance, then you port into Bree at level 50 with the same initial goodies as Gift of the Valar. Priced at $49.95 or 4995 TP. Maybe even includes Moria expansion in the price to sweeten the deal for new players or free players who do not yet have MoM. Maybe throw Eregion QP in as well for new players who may need an easier "starter" area. (Yeah, I know, faceroll with someone else pre-rolling your face. )

    Whatever class it is, it starts at 50. There's no level 1 version. Starts with 3-4 base skills plus whatever you get from spending an initial allocation of 22-25 trait points. You pick up more skills as you level. You don't fill out skill list until level 70-75 or so.

    That would eliminate the work of designing new class quests except for the Moria ones. You jump right into Walls of Moria to get access and LIs with only 3-5 buttons to think about mashing. Or a new player can go back to the free regions and play around one-hitting gray mobs for virtues if they wish. Or maybe they start it at 60 and give you a couple more trait points and Enedwaith QP, eliminating class quests entirely.

    I'm also thinking Knight or Beorning.


    Knight:

    Might based, heavy armor, only 1 handed and shield plus throwing weapons. Trait lines are: DPS, defensive single target tanking/solo survival, or fear based debuffs. Kinda Cappy-like, but mob debuff rather than group buff and no healing other than self.


    Beorning:

    Will based, light armor, only 2 handed axe, club, (hammer?). Shapeshift to bear is a capstone in every line or at a higher level. Trait lines are: DPS, tanking, or bear inspired debuffs. Bear shape magnifies everything, but you lose all your armor and weapon bonuses. (Think hard, do you really want to be a bear right now?) Dunlendings' text changes to "You are not welcome here Duvodiaaaaaiiiiiieeeeee! Run! It's a bear!"


    Just having fun with the what-if here.
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  17. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leggyless View Post
    From what I can see, everyone is busy looking at the lore or role distributions alone for answers. I'm going to place my mark on Seer and make mention of the role the trait trees played in preparation for it.

    Seers had incredible senses of foretelling. As a person who loved their pre-trait-tree system Rune Keeper, I'd like to point out abilities that are now missing from the game entirely, as far as I know.
    Do Not Fall This Day: a pre-emptive revive
    Do Not Fall to [Element]: pre-emptive elemental defense for the fellowship
    Fall to X: Both the legendary and elemental versions of skills that had a chance to apply extra damage when damage was given
    Their Weapons Will Not Harm Us: pre-emptive debuff removal and temporary resistance to debuffs
    That Which Does Not Kill Us: applies a large boost to allies for a minute or two until they receive damage. Upon receiving damage, this ability applied a short duration heavy heal over time

    These abilities were removed when the trait trees came about. The trait trees, then, made it possible. Seers were very influential in Middle Earth lore. One even gave one of the kings of old a name that meant "The Last King" because he fortold that unless he took a very unlikely course before him, he would be the last of that line of kings, and it was so. Someone else can give a more proper quote than I.

    It could easily be a defensive spellcaster like some have suggested, with buffing and debuffing capabilities. There could even be counterspells, reflective damage abilities, and/or reaction abilities such as "use X ability, if Y happens to target, then z reaction ability available".

    Best of all, it's a class, not having anything to do with race.
    I cant help but thinking about Captain Hindsight when I read what you say. Damn you South Park!

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  18. #268
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    I see "New class" announcement as a really good thing. It looks like Turbine is more focused on player suggestions now..
    Who knows.. maybe we will see other changes.. LI system, housing (eg. need to mantain/repair house once in a while) etc..
    I just hope that this new class will start on lvl1 and won't be overpriced (> 2000TP). It would be really dissapointment if this class would start on lvl50 or lvl95. This way you won't experience its progress through levels..
    I have 9 characters now.. each for every class. I would like to maintain that rule and have 10th..
    Elves - Dusreth (HNT104), Dusriel (RK98), Dusaran (WRD70), Dusraen (LM56), Dusador (GRD44),
    Mortals - Dusgar (CPT36), ...
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  19. #269
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    I thought maybe a class that's really close to nature, I mean really close.

    I appreciate that this creates a lot of overlap with hunters & LMs but, when you get down to real fundamentals, LOTRO hunters are archers & LOTRO LMs are, well, fire monkeys of some kind, these days.

    They could call maybe it Dúnedain, ranger, whatever. Heals, medium or light armour, one handed sword...

    Though on balance it probably doesn't stack up. If hunters [say] lost tracking skills & one or two other things it just might.

  20. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithrien View Post
    There are parts of the story that *require* (or used to require, and still would if LOTRO was balanced appropriately) more than one person. Lots of parts even!

    So please don't make false statements about the story of LOTRO.

    If you indeed only play by yourself ("ONE 'hero' ") then you've missed out on and/or will miss out on many, many, many parts of the story.
    When you read a first-person book, like The Chronicles of Amber, it doesn't mean that there is literally one milion copies of the main hero running around the world, because I'm sure one milion people have read TCOA by now.

    It means that there is YOU, and YOU experience it as through the writing. There is only ONE hero, and YOU experience it through the portal of the language.

    Same thing here, though yes, you know other a few other strong heroic Middle Earth people if you do group content.
    Crickhollow---Citridyla, Ythrondis, and Hraf. Meneldor--Dockerson, Kariadriel and Thasgar. Gladden--Gamoskorin, Henessy, and Lanthreldras. Firefoot--Amberson and Liedvar. Brandywine--Audny, Egilwine, and Gardihauk. I'm an altoholic, pie-eating fool! :)

  21. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieArtisan View Post
    When you read a first-person book, like The Chronicles of Amber, it doesn't mean that there is literally one milion copies of the main hero running around the world, because I'm sure one milion people have read TCOA by now.

    It means that there is YOU, and YOU experience it as through the writing. There is only ONE hero, and YOU experience it through the portal of the language.

    Same thing here, though yes, you know other a few other strong heroic Middle Earth people if you do group content.
    Pretending that all the other people you see are just random inhabitants of Middle-earth and not mighty heroes like you and your few brave companions is all very well, up to a point. It wouldn't be quite so believable if half of the afore-mentioned random passers-by were running round in bear's-shape, though. Some things blend into the background just a little bit better than others

  22. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    It wouldn't be quite so believable if half of the afore-mentioned random passers-by were running round in bear's-shape, though. Some things blend into the background just a little bit better than others
    I would just assume it was a wild bear and I would mind my own business if my tailor's guild crafts were on CD at the time. Otherwise I may try to slay it and be very disappointed when it turns into a man. But you know, skinning a Beorning should aggro every Beorning.
    BAD WOLF

  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Pretending that all the other people you see are just random inhabitants of Middle-earth and not mighty heroes like you and your few brave companions is all very well, up to a point. It wouldn't be quite so believable if half of the afore-mentioned random passers-by were running round in bear's-shape, though. Some things blend into the background just a little bit better than others
    We have all sorts of things running around bear-shaped in the land. They're bears.

    Enemy bears, friendly bears, pet bears of all shapes and sizes. Not sure how a few more would be that much more immersion-breaking, even assuming the bear-form of a skin-changer were available out-of combat.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  24. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    We have all sorts of things running around bear-shaped in the land. They're bears.

    Enemy bears, friendly bears, pet bears of all shapes and sizes. Not sure how a few more would be that much more immersion-breaking, even assuming the bear-form of a skin-changer were available out-of combat.
    Oh sure. The first new class in years and there'd only be a few of them, and nobody would run around town in bear's-shape, or turn into a bear right in front of you. I mean, it's not like any of the Druids in WoW ever did that

  25. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Oh sure. The first new class in years and there'd only be a few of them, and nobody would run around town in bear's-shape, or turn into a bear right in front of you. I mean, it's not like any of the Druids in WoW ever did that
    Ignoring the fact that there are already a bunch of bears running around town, what's the argument if it's an in-combat skill?

    I suppose that if you pay a lot of attention to what other people are doing *and* what other people do bothers you, there could be a problem with people changing form in front of you. I guess I'm coming from the point of view of not really noticing or caring what anyone I'm not currently fellowed with is doing, unless it affects me directly (competing for resources, questing when I'm deeding, deeding while I'm questing, etc...).
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

 

 
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