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  1. #1

    no more elder king symbols at max level

    Once the game is balanced and difficulty is no longer laughable and first age items are reintroduced, I feel it would add a certain uniqueness to your character if first age items randomly dropped at the end of raids. Instead of buying them from skirmish vendors.

  2. #2
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    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    There is always the auction house.

  4. #4
    Yeah, Auction House. They were selling for 6000g when 85 FAs were introduced. Last years' system was nice except for the fact that you could get symbols from T1 runs. Also we don't have raids anymore. Putting symbols at the end of solo/duo BBs would be ridiculous. I thought about it a lot but i don't see how they can add FA symbols without giving them away to everyone.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by unip0pcorn View Post
    Yeah, Auction House. They were selling for 6000g when 85 FAs were introduced. Last years' system was nice except for the fact that you could get symbols from T1 runs. Also we don't have raids anymore. Putting symbols at the end of solo/duo BBs would be ridiculous. I thought about it a lot but i don't see how they can add FA symbols without giving them away to everyone.
    If they drop at the end of every raid, I don't see them going for 6000 gold. It might even bring balance back to the Lotro economy since way too much gold drops now. TBH I don't see why a casual player who doesn't play group content need anything heavier than a 3rd age item.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.
    In my opinion, the availability of legendary symbols is probably directly decided by the income that legendary items generate for Turbine. If a player has a third age, and spends any money on upgrading it, then they will probably spend money on a second age as well. Finally, I think they hold off on releasing the first age solely to milk the same cows that want to outfit themselves with the best gear. If I am right, it is a great way for them to make money, and I wholeheartedly support them placing it in the skirmish camp again this year.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager. It used to be the only way to get them was through the raids or Auction House. Having them in the skirmish camp at lvl 85 severly diminished the "Awesomeness" of having one. They were a challenge to get and should remain that way. Not every person on the game at max level should have one. Same with t2 raid gear. Give the people who raid something to actually raid for. If they choose afterwords to sell them at HIGH prices or pass them off to Kinnies that is fine... but PLEASE DO NOT GIVE THEM AWAY LIKE CANDY.

    In all Honesty I think even having the Second age symbols on the skirmish camp at the Launch of HD was a mistake. Yes there were no new raids.. but those symbols should have been raid drops only.
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between. I was content with doing 3-6 man runs because that eliminated AFKs by half. Since the release of HD I find myself joining raids more now. I liked it better when you had to accomplish something for a good reward...then they came out with skirmish camps.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag28 View Post
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between. I was content with doing 3-6 man runs because that eliminated AFKs by half. Since the release of HD I find myself joining raids more now. I liked it better when you had to accomplish something for a good reward...then they came out with skirmish camps.
    I honestly am kind of in between but I agree. Having everything available to everyone is not good. Sure it may boost a few sales but it pushes more people away. Raiders need something to work towards and if a player is not going to raid and or PvMP there is no need for a first ager. If you want the shiny stuff than work for it. It really is not all that challenging especially right now when even t2 challenge raids can be pugged and each wing only takes 30 minutes. It boils down to IMO that people want something for nothing and if person A has something Person B does not person B raises a stink that everyone should be able to get it.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag28 View Post
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between.
    Not necessarily true, and I think this is where Turbine messed up. There's a huge number of players who aren't 'hardcore raiders', but they still join raids occasionally. I know a lot of players would like to raid more but were unable to for various reasons. There was a huge 'halo effect' around hardcore raiders: they usually had all the good gear that everyone else wanted, and that kept people in the game hoping to someday get it themselves. By abandoning the hardcore raiders (with ezmode content and no new raids) they also marginalized that much larger second tier of players.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag28 View Post
    The problem with Lotro now is there 2 kinds of people who play, "casual players" and "hardcore raiders" with no in between. I was content with doing 3-6 man runs because that eliminated AFKs by half. Since the release of HD I find myself joining raids more now. I liked it better when you had to accomplish something for a good reward...then they came out with skirmish camps.
    There are hardcore raiders left in this game?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    That is where I differ. Other than "raids" and PvMP there is no need for a first ager.
    The simple fact is no body needs a 1st age weapon period. The last difficult raid event was ToO T2C and it could be done by a well organized group using 2nd age gear. In PVMP you don't need a 1st age weapon either. It might be nice to have one, but no one needs it.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    The simple fact is no body needs a 1st age weapon period. The last difficult raid event was ToO T2C and it could be done by a well organized group using 2nd age gear. In PVMP you don't need a 1st age weapon either. It might be nice to have one, but no one needs it.
    No you do not NEED it... but it makes those areas of the game worth something and makes them easier especially with the DPS adjustments coming. Hopefully soon everything will not be such a faceroll. So having a FA weapon going into a T2 raid would be extemely helpfull.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    No you do not NEED it... but it makes those areas of the game worth something and makes them easier especially with the DPS adjustments coming. Hopefully soon everything will not be such a faceroll. So having a FA weapon going into a T2 raid would be extemely helpfull.
    I agree with you here. That's the point I'm trying to make. My inability to get into multiple raid groups has nothing to do with my skill as a player, or my preferences in how I spend my time being it solo versus group play. In my situation I live in Asia so when I get on to play, it's 4am back in the USA. Now, I can get on Saturday or Sunday morning to play with groups and try to run raids, but scheduling as it is, a majority of the organized raid groups run on weeknights. So, if I do manage to get online at a time when people want to run hard raid stuff, it would be nice if there were a way for me to prepare and partake.

    I don't mind if it takes longer to get a 1st age symbol by bartering seals or some sort of token than it would just running the raid a few times. I wouldn't mind if there were some sort of raid drop like the scales did for cloaks. I'm cool with the fact that there should be a few things you can only get by really raiding your butt off. But a 1st age weapon should be obtainable by those of us who simply cannot get into as many raids so that when we are invited to participate in challenging content, we can actually be useful.

    I've never had a 1st age weapon at level cap, but then again it's been forever since they were needed.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    Fa symbols should be a reward for completing the hardest content in the game.....not readily available to people who farm sambrog for seals. Fa weapons are only needed to compete raids and in pvmp

    Its a complete joke that turbine make them available to everyone

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pvdtheking View Post
    Fa symbols should be a reward for completing the hardest content in the game.....not readily available to people who farm sambrog for seals. Fa weapons are only needed to compete raids and in pvmp

    Its a complete joke that turbine make them available to everyone
    I agree with your first statement wholeheartedly: FA should be a reward for completing the hardest content in the game.

    Then I disagree with you: FA weapons are only needed to complete raids and in pvmp.

    The OP said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag28 View Post
    Once the game is balanced and difficulty is no longer laughable and first age items are reintroduced ...
    I am going with the OP and agreeing, we should not see FAs in the game until after it is balanced again. But this 'balancing' can occur on ALL levels of the game. They can make the raids the 'hardest content in the game' for 12-man groups - at the same time, they can make some of the fellowship content the 'hardest content in the game' for 6-man groups - at the same time, they can make some of the small fellowship content the 'hardest content in the game' for 3-man groups - at the same time, they can make some of the solo content the 'hardest content in the game' for solo players.

    Then everyone has the same shot at completing 'hardest content in the game' however they choose to complete it. Then everyone in the game has the ability to earn FA and top end equipment however they choose to go about earning.

    I am not sure why raiders seem to have the elitist attitude they are 'better' than everyone else and are 'entitled' to things other players don't have. Just balance the difficulty and make everyone work just as long - just as hard, and earn the same rewards.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie4all View Post
    I am not sure why raiders seem to have the elitist attitude they are 'better' than everyone else and are 'entitled' to things other players don't have. Just balance the difficulty and make everyone work just as long - just as hard, and earn the same rewards.
    Isn't that pretty much the case in all games? I want my shinnies but you can't have em if you don't do like I do!
    As for the need for them.
    If you can complete the raid to gain the FA, what is there that is harder that you need the FA for.
    With the exception of PvP since there everyone want what ever little extra edge there is.
    For the FAs to be "Needed" you would have to make something even more difficult than what they drop from.
    So in the end they are mostly for show or a little time saver on the next run.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman76 View Post
    As for the need for them.
    If you can complete the raid to gain the FA, what is there that is harder that you need the FA for.
    ...
    For the FAs to be "Needed" you would have to make something even more difficult than what they drop from.
    So in the end they are mostly for show or a little time saver on the next run.
    Very good point.

  19. #19
    I'm not trying to be political, but I feel that adventuring in Middle-Earth should be survival of the fittest not a democracy. If Lothar of the Hillpeople shows off his shiny new FA sword in Bree after slaying a dragon with his friends, I don't think Joe Shmoe of buttefly land should start demanding that big brother puts the same treasure outside under a rock for him.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Cartman76 View Post
    Isn't that pretty much the case in all games? I want my shinnies but you can't have em if you don't do like I do!
    As for the need for them.
    If you can complete the raid to gain the FA, what is there that is harder that you need the FA for.
    With the exception of PvP since there everyone want what ever little extra edge there is.
    For the FAs to be "Needed" you would have to make something even more difficult than what they drop from.
    So in the end they are mostly for show or a little time saver on the next run.
    Its called progression.

    It used to be the case that the gear you get was progressively better starting from landcsape content, to 3-man content, to 6-man content to raids. Which made sense (and still would) because not only do you have to have the activities scheduled/arranged on the player end adding in all the chaos that other people bring (from you to you +2, to you +5, to you +11 others all playing your classes in their required roles, knowing the mechanics, being there to back each other up by reacting to something not going as planned, etc) - but because being stepping-stones of PvE (and the stories, sometimes) the difficulty increases too. 3 mans are generally harder than solo content. 6 mans are generally harder than 3 mans. 12 mans are generally harder than 6 mans - not just because of the people involved but because thats how the content works. These are all just parts of one whole - its called PVE.

    I really hate these "the need for a first ager" posts. (I'm about to ignore lvl 60 LI's in general and the watcher/turtle/DN)

    How much experience do you folks have with completing T2C Ost Dunhoth on-level, or T2C ToO on-level?

    A big thing people overlook is that its the CHALLENGE mode that is designed to (not necessarily always or for every single player in the group) "require" (or at least make the biggest most important difference/impact on your chances of success) said first age weapons.

    We had to get first ages to our DPS classes in my kins static raid group to be able to complete certain OD and ToO challenges (dat server first! I miss the healthy competition(s) between kins, between servers, between players around the world. :/) There was a chance for each T2 chest to drop a 1st age symbol, and challenge chests guaranteed a symbol each.

    You played solo and got solo gear.
    You played a particular role in 3-mans and got 3-man gear.
    You played a paritcular role in 6-mans and got 6-man gear.
    You played a particular role in raids and got raid-gear.

    Where applicable, you chose higher difficulty settings (which had even bigger currency/loot advantages or at least potential for such advantages) as you/your group learned mechanics and class synergies and overcame challenges, and you obtained better gear at each point along the way giving you/your group the extra healing, DPS or legacy-points-spent to enable successful completion of the next step up.

    There were always shiny carrots to chase after like Baingrist, Cloak of Hwin, Draig scales, Clasps, Ithilwegil and Celegmegol, whatever that huge mini shield was called, etc.

    Might I ask.... How many times did all of your guys' kins complete Bukot challenge in ToO Shadow on-level, and how many of your raiders had First Ages?
    Last edited by Ithrien; Mar 12 2014 at 05:09 PM.
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I'm ok with the system they used with Erebor. It gave people who cannot participate in 12 man raids a chance to (at a much longer grind) get first age items.
    No it didn't. You had to complete the erebor raids at least on t1 before you could even barter for a symbol at the highest price.

    Next lowest price, had to beat the erebor raids on t2.

    For the cheapest price, had to beat the erebor raids on t2c.

    So you STILL had to participate in the 12-man raids, at least on the lowest difficulty, at least once... before you sambrog farmed for seals.

    At least with today's LOTRO, you'd have to run multiple raid instances to have enough seals to barter - which works for me. I'd still prefer that T2C properly scaled end-game raids like BG and OD (and hopefully TOO in future) and erebor, had a chance drop First Age symbols from t2, and a higher chance or even a guarantee for one symbol from challenge chest.
    [COLOR="#40E0D0"]Turbine does not give out rewards based on the profit factor; because rewards must be earned by completing content.[/COLOR]

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag28 View Post
    Once the game is balanced and difficulty is no longer laughable and first age items are reintroduced, I feel it would add a certain uniqueness to your character if first age items randomly dropped at the end of raids. Instead of buying them from skirmish vendors.
    Actually I'm talking about not using elder king symbols at all, I think it would be better if the weapon itself dropped at the end of the raid.

 

 

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