We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 54

Thread: Lottery

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    81

    Lottery

    Lotteries have now vanished, did I miss something, or was it quietly shelved?
    Leader of S.O.A Firefoot

    85 LM 85 Min 85 Burg 85 Capt 85 RK 84 Guard 65 Warden 75 Champ 85 Burg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    They were fried early last year during a particularly icky storm. So, for the foreseeable future, we will not have any more lotteries.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Barad-dûr
    Posts
    617
    Quote Originally Posted by watarun View Post
    Lotteries have now vanished, did I miss something, or was it quietly shelved?
    They're not as big as they used to be and are now called Hobbit Presents.

  4. #4
    The Lotteries were also broken with no ETA on any fix. I guess it's Hobbit Presents* for the long haul.


    * I don't open Hobbit Presents. A personal choice.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  5. #5
    As someone who works in IT, I find it very hard to believe a storm "fried" the ability for them to do lotteries. There are (or should be) too many safeguards and redundancies in place for this to happen.

    I am guessing whomever was working on the system was axed, and the position that person was working was never re-filled due to the cuts at Turbine.

    IMHO, Lotteries have sailed into the west and we will probably never see them again.
    Note: My posts are my OPINION, and are NOT intended to "troll", "provoke", "bait" or "harass".
    If my posts are taken as such, then I humbly apologize in advance.


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito View Post
    As someone who works in IT, I find it very hard to believe a storm "fried" the ability for them to do lotteries. There are (or should be) too many safeguards and redundancies in place for this to happen.

    I am guessing whomever was working on the system was axed, and the position that person was working was never re-filled due to the cuts at Turbine.
    Turbine like many companies did not want the expense of building a data center and hiring the humans to run it. Turbine's servers are not in a Turbine data center. Turbine pays another company to provide reliable power, air conditioning and internet connectivity. No matter how much money you spend, there is always the potential for equipment damage. Hence companies with a serious need to service availability have two sets of hardware well separated by distances. One company I worked for had three data centers with identical copies of the data - one in Europe - one in South America and the last one in Asia. Somebody asked what will your company if all three data centers are destroyed at the same time. Nobody is going to care about what we do in that situation.

    I personally have seen more two incidents of equipment damage despite our best efforts. The worst case was a data center in Florida. All the equipment is 48 volt DC powered. You have FPL connected to a switch --> to the batteries --> to all the equipment. There is a diesel powered generator connected to the switch in case FPL stops working. The battery plant is designed for 24 run time hours. One day a lightning bolt hit the ground over the FPL feed. ran into the building. burned out the switch - jumped across the battery plant - sent a huge over voltage into the 48 feed lines. Million dollars worth of equipment damage. That was in spite all the high speed breakers, circuit interruptors, sold state fuses...

    The apparent problem Turbine has is that they have no money in their budget to buy replacement hardware. Nobody is going to be fired at Turbine because no Turbine employee at fault. There maybe some unpleasantness between Turbine and the company that operates the data center. Perhaps issues with the service level agreement. Lack of insurance.

    We did not have insurance. It was felt that it was a waste of dollars to cover such an unlikely event. There is no way to predict exactly where, when and how the wheels would come off. One of our centers was crushed when the World Trade Center tower collapsed. Fortunately, none of the employees were injured or killed. The manager on site followed company policy. Everybody was out of the building - leaving the area with in five minutes.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,839
    The hardware failure story is all real and true.

    The thing is, Turbine just does not really want the lotteries back anymore, and that is just how it is. If they really wanted the lotteries back, they'd have made it so already. The lotteries have little to no priority, so you might as well forget them.

    Of course the above is just my personal translation of Sapience's statement that there is no ETA on when the lotteries will be back, and nothing more than just my personal translation. He knows, I guess.

    At this point I'd prefer the straight up 'not coming back, sorry'. Or fix the thing. Not the dangling. It sucks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,092
    Here's one of the comments Sapience made about it. I know we're living in cynical times, but I don't think they have anything to gain by lying about it, and I see no reason to be skeptical of this answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    • What is happening with lotteries
      The power outage awhile back broke them, and until the hardware and system are repaired and back up and running he can’t even speculate on an ETA.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    Quote Originally Posted by Burrito View Post
    As someone who works in IT, I find it very hard to believe a storm "fried" the ability for them to do lotteries. There are (or should be) too many safeguards and redundancies in place for this to happen.
    While I don't doubt your word, I do find it hard to believe that you would work in position high in the IT department and still say that. I don't work in IT at all, but I have witnessed first-hand the effects that storms can have on electronics. Any time when something is shut off cold-turkey (power outage, for example, or even as simple as pulling the plug) you run the risk of ruining it. That's why you should not turn your computer off by yanking the cable. The chances are very slim, but still very real. We once had a storm here that fried one of the servers in our basement (yes... we have our own servers in our basement xD). My dad, being the technological wizard that he is, was eventually able to salvage the data (after weeks and weeks) but he said it's incredibly unlikely to manage that once it's been fried badly enough. And the dangers and chances of this kind of thing happens increases the more bad the storm is. My power can get knocked off if we have bad enough flooding. Throw in a tornado or a lightning storm, and it's even worse. Even companies like Turbine are not immune to the weather in this regard. Even fail-safes are not perfect. Once when our power went out our backup battery failed to kick in. We were lucky that time (no damage that I can remember, beyond the obvious need for a new battery) but it could have been a lot worse.

    So equipment getting fried as a result of a storm is far from unlikely. And if that does happen, more often than not it must be reconstructed from scratch. That takes time and money. Time and money that Turbine, for something as small as the lotteries, may not be willing to spend at this time. Eventually? Perhaps. But I doubt it's high on their list of things to do.

    "Fried" was merely a description. They weren't literally "burnt to a crisp" and letting off a hiss and smoke. But they were damaged and no longer work.

    Also, the time-line was off. At the time that this thread was started, I'd thought it was further back into 2013 than it actually was. In wasn't until later in the year that all of this happened.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Here's one of the comments Sapience made about it. I know we're living in cynical times, but I don't think they have anything to gain by lying about it, and I see no reason to be skeptical of this answer.
    I do wonder how long it's going to take to repair that hardware and system.

    Nah. I think the lottery has unofficially been written off, it's just that the official decision hasn't been taken yet and the system that ran the lottery being still broken paired with the low priority of the feature make it so the decision does not need any taking either. Indeed impossible to speculate on an ETA.

    Turbine can indeed give that answer and it is indeed not a lie.
    Last edited by Rainothon; Apr 02 2014 at 05:44 AM. Reason: spelling

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    While I don't doubt your word, I do find it hard to believe that you would work in position high in the IT department and still say that. I don't work in IT at all, but I have witnessed first-hand the effects that storms can have on electronics.
    Burrito is right.
    You cannot lose software because of a hardware problem.
    I worked in bank/financial as PM and C/C++ developer for ~20 years, and we always had at least 2 backup servers for sensitive data like databases, source code, etc...
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 02 2014 at 02:54 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    Burrito is right.
    You cannot lose software because of a hardware problem.
    I worked in bank/financial as PM and C/C++ developer for ~20 years, and we always had at least 2 backup servers for sensitive data like databases, source code, etc...
    You most certainly can. If I take your computer and put a stick of dynamite in it and blow it to kingdom come, it doesn't matter what kind of software you had on it. Anything stored on that computer is poof.

    If a lightning bolt strikes your house and causes an electrical surge that literally burns to a crisp anything electronic in your house, then anything (the software) stored on those electronics (the hardware) are poof.

    If severe flooding causes power outages that shuts electronics down cold turkey, there is always a chance that they will not work properly afterward. That's why if you open the Task Manager and switch to the Processes tab (for XP; might be something different on other systems) and hit End Process (to shut something down cold turkey), Windows will give you the following error:

    WARNING: Terminating a process can cause undesired results including loss of data and system instability. The process will not be given the chance to save its state or data before it is terminated. Are you sure you want to terminate the process?
    Why do you think you have those 2 backup servers? Perhaps because something bad might happen to the main one? And suppose, rare though it may be, that not only the main server but also both backups fail? In Turbine's case, something similar to that happened, IIRC. Storm causes power outages. Backups fail to initiate. Unhappy result = loss in data.

    If we're going to go through the "my horse is bigger than your horse" routine, my dad has made a living working in IT, maintaining servers and all sorts of electronic gadgets. He currently works for a large school district. Before that for a computer (and other electronics) company. He started out way back in Radio Shack almost 40 years ago. My older brother began programming when he was 12, developed his own game, and currently makes even more than my dad does in an IT department at some company outside Detroit. He's been doing that stuff for about 15 years now.

    It's apparent that your viewpoint (and Burrito's) won't mesh with mine (and, I think, Yula's). I guess in the long run it doesn't really matter. Right or wrong, the situation stands: We don't have lotteries and it may be a long while before we get them back (if we ever get them back). Who really cares whether it was a software problem, hardware problem, both, or neither?
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  13. #13
    Quietly? I wouldn't say that. There have been a fair number of threads opened on the topic. Folks are disappointed about this, including I think, Sapience. However, I think time is better spent on the upcoming update, etc.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    484
    There is no shortage of I.T. expertise amongst the lotro player base. People who use computers at work tend to have little difficulty with also using them at home for play.

    Whilst it may well have been an I.T. issue that knocked the lotteries out, the uncertainty surrounding their return is a political, not a technical, issue.

    *ANY* I.T. issue can be sorted if the will and resources are there to do it with.

    The problem with returning the lotteries is that that would be 'swimming against the tide' at Turbine nowadays.

    Someone at Turbine has decided that they do not want their company to disappear into a bottomless pit of web add-ons.
    Unless and until that policy is changed, return date for the lotteries will always be: Manyana.

    So, smartest thing to do is to assume that they are permanently dead. Just not buried. Sic transit gloria mundi.

    On the up side, lotro clearly still has got a future. However inefficient implementing unpopular features and losing nice ones might be, as long
    as they keep adding new stuff, sooner or later something good should turn up, even if it is only by accident.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,839
    And even if lotteries were ever to return, they'd be totally fluke things, mostly merely used to promote new content, or if Sapience had a good pun day.

    The regular lotteries, now those were the days, were gone even before the storm hit.

    Nostalgia. Sic transit gloria mundi indeed.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    You most certainly can. If I take your computer and put a stick of dynamite in it and blow it to kingdom come, it doesn't matter what kind of software you had on it. Anything stored on that computer is poof.

    If a lightning bolt strikes your house and causes an electrical surge that literally burns to a crisp anything electronic in your house, then anything (the software) stored on those electronics (the hardware) are poof.

    If severe flooding causes power outages that shuts electronics down cold turkey, there is always a chance that they will not work properly afterward. That's why if you open the Task Manager and switch to the Processes tab (for XP; might be something different on other systems) and hit End Process (to shut something down cold turkey), Windows will give you the following error:

    Why do you think you have those 2 backup servers? Perhaps because something bad might happen to the main one? And suppose, rare though it may be, that not only the main server but also both backups fail? In Turbine's case, something similar to that happened, IIRC. Storm causes power outages. Backups fail to initiate. Unhappy result = loss in data.
    Well, and even if they DID have a backup of the code for the system, new hardware would need to be purchased and configured, the software to run the system would need to be loaded, configured and tested, and that takes time and resources. Not just an IT guy or two, but engineers to reconfigure the lottery software and awarding of prizes. Sapience made it pretty clear that he has been bugging people to try to get the lotteries going again but it's a low priority item. So as far as I can see, it's not a matter of them taking a long time, it's a matter of that not getting started yet because it's low on their list of things to deal with. That doesn't mean it will never happen, but it does mean we shouldn't hold our collective breath.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    You most certainly can. If I take your computer and put a stick of dynamite in it and blow it to kingdom come, it doesn't matter what kind of software you had on it. Anything stored on that computer is poof.
    No, backup servers are (of course) always physically at different places (+ cloud storage now...)

    I think wachkussen did a good summary of the situation.
    Last edited by Castorix; Apr 02 2014 at 03:14 PM.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    2,946
    I worked at a company that also had two completely separate server set ups. (I am not an IT just the sales guy that suffered because of the issue.)

    This was the famous 99.999% IBM set up that we would never even lose our data. Please note the famous 5 9's which IT people used a lot back then. Not sure if they still do.

    Ours issue was not even external electrical issues. We were having an update done and something small, I do not remember what it was but it was a < $100 item, decided to breakdown during the upgrade. What ended up happening was both servers went down and it took three days to get then restarted and and week + to get our data back. But even with the 99.999% rule we lost 3 weeks of data. Three weeks of orders, payment, shipping, returns and everything else a company need to keep in order to run its business.

    From what I remember the broken component resulted in the programing not being loaded correctly so when it was time to restart with the new upgrade there was no working code and all the data was scrambled. Because of this they could not roll it back either which was the first thing they tried as the broken item scramble the data and program again. So stuff does happen.

    The lotto was a nice gimme, but it really does not affect the game in anyway shape or form. To me that means bottom of the priority list. I would much rather see the new zones than a lotto return. IMO anyway.
    I wonder what IS behind that waterfall?
    The Player Council knows!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    Quote Originally Posted by wachkussen View Post
    Whilst it may well have been an I.T. issue that knocked the lotteries out, the uncertainty surrounding their return is a political, not a technical, issue.

    *ANY* I.T. issue can be sorted if the will and resources are there to do it with.
    Very true. Can Turbine justify spending the resources (time and money) to bring the lotteries back? Is it worth the effort, in other words? Something to remember is how much goes into this kind of thing. I read something one of the the employees (if not Sapience then at least some form of a dev) posted a while ago that explained how it could take an hour or more to just add a check-box option somewhere in the game.

    And we should keep in mind: do we really want the old lotteries back? They were buggy at times -- if lotteries return, wouldn't we want a better system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    No, backup servers are (of course) always physically at different places (+ cloud storage now...)
    That wasn't the point. I wasn't talking about backup servers in my examples, I was talking about how software can be affected by hardware problems.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    I read something one of the the employees (if not Sapience then at least some form of a dev) posted a while ago that explained how it could take an hour or more to just add a check-box option somewhere in the game.
    It was during one of the Hobbit runs:

    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    • How long does it take to make new content
      That depends on what kind of content you are talking about. He has a good example he has of how things can be way more time-consuming and complicated than most people realize. He was having a conversation of one of the engineers about work he was doing on one of the changes coming with U13, which allows players to toggle confirmation boxes on or off, and basically every single confirmation box that he’s put into the system takes about an hour for him just to add a checkbox. To write the code, to check it in, to verify the code, to make sure it’s working or that it didn’t break anything else. That’s an hour of just his time. It still has to go through QA, it still has to go through a build process, and it still has to go through several other steps. And then it ends up on Bullroarer, and if any of us find a bug, he has to start over. So if he’s adding a checkbox to 5 dialog boxes, that’s most of a day shot just in adding checkboxes.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Middle-earth
    Posts
    1,839
    Well, I liked the lotteries.

    They were a nice unique addition to the game, in the sense that they did not depend on the client. I could access them from anywhere I had internet connection. For example on vacation.

    Also some were really funnily named and gave matchingly humorous rewards.

    And they were an extra from visiting these pages.

    Oh, yes, indeed they were merely icing on the cake. And icing without cake is only sugarry stuff. But a cake does so much better with icing.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    It was during one of the Hobbit runs:
    Yep, that's the one; thanks for hunting it down!
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    555
    Quote Originally Posted by Breeon View Post
    They're not as big as they used to be and are now called Hobbit Presents.
    I would tend to agree with this statement except you dont get "all" the same items in the Hobbit Presents that were available in the lotteries like new horses. I kinda thought the lotteres was a tool used by turbine to get players interested in new items. so that when it became available in the Turbine Store people would want the new item more. But im just guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    Turbine like many companies did not want the expense of building a data center and hiring the humans to run it. Turbine's servers are not in a Turbine data center. Turbine pays another company to provide reliable power, air conditioning and internet connectivity. No matter how much money you spend, there is always the potential for equipment damage. Hence companies with a serious need to service availability have two sets of hardware well separated by distances. One company I worked for had three data centers with identical copies of the data - one in Europe - one in South America and the last one in Asia. Somebody asked what will your company if all three data centers are destroyed at the same time. Nobody is going to care about what we do in that situation.

    I personally have seen more two incidents of equipment damage despite our best efforts. The worst case was a data center in Florida. All the equipment is 48 volt DC powered. You have FPL connected to a switch --> to the batteries --> to all the equipment. There is a diesel powered generator connected to the switch in case FPL stops working. The battery plant is designed for 24 run time hours. One day a lightning bolt hit the ground over the FPL feed. ran into the building. burned out the switch - jumped across the battery plant - sent a huge over voltage into the 48 feed lines. Million dollars worth of equipment damage. That was in spite all the high speed breakers, circuit interruptors, sold state fuses...

    The apparent problem Turbine has is that they have no money in their budget to buy replacement hardware. Nobody is going to be fired at Turbine because no Turbine employee at fault. There maybe some unpleasantness between Turbine and the company that operates the data center. Perhaps issues with the service level agreement. Lack of insurance.

    We did not have insurance. It was felt that it was a waste of dollars to cover such an unlikely event. There is no way to predict exactly where, when and how the wheels would come off. One of our centers was crushed when the World Trade Center tower collapsed. Fortunately, none of the employees were injured or killed. The manager on site followed company policy. Everybody was out of the building - leaving the area with in five minutes.
    I have had some hardware losses and I still managed to pull the data off. Corrupt Sectors, power surges. The only time I was unable to save the data was when the circuit board on the hd itself went out. but learned much later when a friend on mine had the issue had taken a duplicate HD and swapped components around on the hds. it ran long enough to pull the data off his HD. Not to mention Turbine is a professional company so I would imagine they have a routine in place of backing up all their data. So if someone did blow up the primary data center or it was completely flooded making it un retrievable they could just implement the back up copy. Making the data loss still minimal. Its just a matter of how much money a company wants to spend on trying to update, save or retrieve data from broken equipment. Especially since according to some the data centers are not at turbine so that would mean the company that owns the data centers would be the ones waiting on turbine to decide if they want to pay for that kind of in-depth data retrieval. If it was a storm that did it, then The owners of the data center could pay their workers to actually retrieve data then turn it into their insurance company, if they were insured properly.


    And yes it might take the devs a very long time to code something into the game, like an hour just to get a little box. However, Im gona guess and say that the Devs who work on the game content are not the same folks who work on the web site. The lotteries were a Turbine web site item and not visible or accessible from in game. While i also do believe the devs are good at their jobs writing code, I would hazard a guess and say that they would not be touching the Web site code or forum code as it is 2 a different animal from writing or dealing with game code. While not an expert Once the main framework of the web site data is compiled. After a couple weeks of updating the web site daily the folks doing it would almost know right where to go in the web data index file for what they want changed. I used to do this when i had my own web site. Write the new code in notepad. Open the index file find the data i want to replace, highlight it, and copy /paste the new data right over the old. its not as difficult as say a dev trying to find 1 line in a million lines of game code. Yes back then Things were not as complicated back then as they are now, but still web site code is only so much vs game code which is ever growing.

    I would also hazard a guess and say since they have not been fixed by now that they are gone. It could be that WB / Turbine decided to just not spend the money to pay the web designers to keep it going or any number of reasons.

    If they were to come back im sure Sapience would let us all know.. However, I would say it would be a good idea to assume they are gone for good, at least for now.


    Besides, if they did come back then we would all be oh Cool! Their back I forgot all about them!.
    ***Public Safety Reminder: When Driving, Please do not use your cell phones to call or text. If something is that important pull over to the side of the road and stop the vehicle, then return to driving when done. Also as an additional reminder, please do not drink and drive when out celebrating.***

  24. #24
    The lotteries were the only reason I followed lotro on Twitter. I miss the lotteries, but I don't miss getting woken up in the middle of the night because Turbine decided to retweet someone's stupid message.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,558
    A new form of the lotteries is in the works. I think Sapience announced it in a live feed. I don't think it's coming SoonTM but it is on the official list of things to do.
    R5 105 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 105 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/105 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/62 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

 

 
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload