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  1. #26
    Hunters were never built to be a great solo PvMP class. I have been playing the moors on and off since SoA days. I remember two very short period of times where the hunter had some great advantages. The proper response was to nerf them of course. I think nerfing the class when it was needed sparked some trend. They then became nerfed every time a creep yelped loud enough after being killed. Many of the changes did not bring balance to the force. I recall when Desperate flight in combat was removed for MvMP. Because you know, hunters were abusing it. A creep could not get a KB on a hunter, once every 30 minutes. It is not like wargs can do that every three minutes. Having that stupid yellow mark when you go for a heart seeker? That makes perfect sense because a warg needs a warning when they need to start their run away or hide skills. Then there was that great nerf to remind hunters how useless we really are as soloers, the "bug" of not being able to track stealth mobs.

    I am being somewhat sarcastic. I still love to solo even though I know I will lose most of the battles. But in groups we do shine and I think this is the point of the devs. Giving us DF back, adding some better self heals, or giving us cry of the predator back will just make us think we are better then what we really are. So accept your role as a powerful group DPSer, or an OK group CC, or a "run around like a chicken with their head cut off" harasser (which is currently my favorite moors build) and watch your rank rise!
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    I think we need some sort of self buff that allows us to avoid damage in the first place, not bounce back from minor damage
    Read one post and I see this...zomg. ...

    We have excellent evasion abilities due to a toggling buff from stance swapping, and HD set bonus giving 2.1k bubble and increased run speed buff. Using blue or yellow (which you would because you prefer easier gravy train) means you can tank and kite very well.
    Have you played a Hunter before? Hm?

    These reports of 25k-30k Upshots only hit on Wargs due to low mitigation and only before U13, so Hunters werent skipping around the lawn firing 25k Upshots because we couldnt track them. Some muppet said he got 24k Swift? Ye right, low aud while buffed, maybe we should all write stories about critting on low audacity players to look good.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    1,456
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    Hunters were never built to be a great solo PvMP class. I have been playing the moors on and off since SoA days. I remember two very short period of times where the hunter had some great advantages. The proper response was to nerf them of course. I think nerfing the class when it was needed sparked some trend. They then became nerfed every time a creep yelped loud enough after being killed. Many of the changes did not bring balance to the force. I recall when Desperate flight in combat was removed for MvMP. Because you know, hunters were abusing it. A creep could not get a KB on a hunter, once every 30 minutes. It is not like wargs can do that every three minutes. Having that stupid yellow mark when you go for a heart seeker? That makes perfect sense because a warg needs a warning when they need to start their run away or hide skills. Then there was that great nerf to remind hunters how useless we really are as soloers, the "bug" of not being able to track stealth mobs.

    I am being somewhat sarcastic. I still love to solo even though I know I will lose most of the battles. But in groups we do shine and I think this is the point of the devs. Giving us DF back, adding some better self heals, or giving us cry of the predator back will just make us think we are better then what we really are. So accept your role as a powerful group DPSer, or an OK group CC, or a "run around like a chicken with their head cut off" harasser (which is currently my favorite moors build) and watch your rank rise!
    Regardless of intended Hunter use, Hunters could always solo well. The only reason its so bad atm, is because Hunters should have around 40% Orc craft/Fell mitigation by default. Instead Hunters have ~22% by default with 50% physical mitigation.

    Do you remember the u13 patch notes?
    -Due to Freepside gaining MORE(?) mitigations we're increasing Creeps damage.

    My Hunter takes 8% more Orc craft and 15% more tactical since u13. I should mitigate roughly my physical mitigation value which is at 50%. If all classes mitigated the physical mitigation value U13 would back to RoR scale.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    AFK in Dol Amroth
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionoil View Post
    Read one post and I see this...zomg. ...

    We have excellent evasion abilities due to a toggling buff from stance swapping, and HD set bonus giving 2.1k bubble and increased run speed buff. Using blue or yellow (which you would because you prefer easier gravy train) means you can tank and kite very well.
    Have you played a Hunter before? Hm?

    These reports of 25k-30k Upshots only hit on Wargs due to low mitigation and only before U13, so Hunters werent skipping around the lawn firing 25k Upshots because we couldnt track them. Some muppet said he got 24k Swift? Ye right, low aud while buffed, maybe we should all write stories about critting on low audacity players to look good.
    The stance bonus is good, Ill admit I do use it alot out there. As for the bubble, thats almost always gone the moment it procs. Also, with the recent explosion of creeps, specially all these new fail of the month defilers running around, I can't see going blue or yellow out there in group v group which is pretty much forced now.

    24k swift is def possible.And not just on wargs. The other day on a ranked defiler:
    Belvelgar scored a critical hit with Smouldering Wrath on Akbalak for 17,162 Fire damage to Morale.
    Patriotpea scored a devastating hit with Blinding Upshot on Akbalak for 45,990 Light damage to Morale.

    Most creeps are glassed these days. Cant outheal that which kills you in seconds.
    This is with zero outposts( some creeps LOVE to PvE)..

    So what if we were buffed and we use debuffs? They aren't nerfing themselves, why should we. I'll be in the moors today if you want some screenshots.
    Quote Originally Posted by lionoil View Post
    Regardless of intended Hunter use, Hunters could always solo well. The only reason its so bad atm, is because Hunters should have around 40% Orc craft/Fell mitigation by default. Instead Hunters have ~22% by default with 50% physical mitigation.

    Do you remember the u13 patch notes?
    -Due to Freepside gaining MORE(?) mitigations we're increasing Creeps damage.

    My Hunter takes 8% more Orc craft and 15% more tactical since u13. I should mitigate roughly my physical mitigation value which is at 50%. If all classes mitigated the physical mitigation value U13 would back to RoR scale.
    Hunters could always solo but nowhere near other classes. Hunter is probs the worst soloing class out there. Like I said above, you could have 80% OC/FW mitigations but if you get caught solo by multiples, you are done. Unless they are completely terrible..Playing on a big server I'm sure you must know this. My server is lucky to have 20 v 20 during peak hours..even then I hope you are grouped because creeps are.. and looking to rank.
    [center][color=cyan]Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.[/color][/center]
    [center][img]http://bit.ly/1Oq7Mgg[/img][/center]
    [center]From Dwarrowdelf to Arkenstone | [color=red]Asylum | No-QQ[/color][/center]

  5. #30
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    Sep 2008
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    1,456
    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    Patriotpea scored a devastating hit with Blinding Upshot on Akbalak for 45,990 Light damage to Morale.
    Hunters could always solo but nowhere near other classes. Hunter is probs the worst soloing class out there. Like I said above, you could have 80% OC/FW mitigations but if you get caught solo by multiples, you are done. Unless they are completely terrible..Playing on a big server I'm sure you must know this. My server is lucky to have 20 v 20 during peak hours..even then I hope you are grouped because creeps are.. and looking to rank.
    24k Swift and 46k Upshot...let me post my damage against slugs in the Shire for more irrelevant information.

    Hunters who know how to play can manage against 2+ easily. This was before RoR Pen spam.

  6. #31
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    Sep 2011
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    AFK in Dol Amroth
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionoil View Post
    24k Swift and 46k Upshot...let me post my damage against slugs in the Shire for more irrelevant information.

    Hunters who know how to play can manage against 2+ easily. This was before RoR Pen spam.
    But it is relevant.
    Are saying that the hunter's biggest advantage in the moors, the ability to frontload massive damage on target over a short period of time is irrelevant?
    50% OC/FW is irrelevant if you get zerged.
    Stance buffs is irrevelant if you get stunned then zerged.

    yea, 2+ r2s. Any decent midranked creeps should beat hunters. Unless they handicap themselves and decide not to use certain skills to make it a little more 'fair'
    [center][color=cyan]Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.[/color][/center]
    [center][img]http://bit.ly/1Oq7Mgg[/img][/center]
    [center]From Dwarrowdelf to Arkenstone | [color=red]Asylum | No-QQ[/color][/center]

  7. #32
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    But it is relevant.
    Are saying that the hunter's biggest advantage in the moors, the ability to frontload massive damage on target over a short period of time is irrelevant?
    50% OC/FW is irrelevant if you get zerged.
    Stance buffs is irrevelant if you get stunned then zerged.

    yea, 2+ r2s. Any decent midranked creeps should beat hunters. Unless they handicap themselves and decide not to use certain skills to make it a little more 'fair'
    So you prefer talking about inconsistent situation examples against classes that aren't 100% or one specific stealth burst damage class that has the weakest defense Creepside?
    Oh well, I prefer talking about constant solo damage first, then what that damage is buffed against important targets such as Healers.

    But let me try how you do it instead: heals per second verses TA Tyrant.
    Tyrant Trintr - Heal: 55,552; HPS: 241.4;
    Hallawing (cappy)- Heal: 32,042; HPS: 139.2;
    Aquitanius (mini)- Heal: 22,080; HPS: 95.9;
    TA Tyrant died after 3mins, the Capp+Mini heals are from the entire fight. Only other DPS was a Champ.

    Heartseeker on red Outpost troll was: 48,037 (note, Upshot hits harder, so my Upshot would be around 55k?)

    Now for relevant information, average solo damage on Warleaders and Defilers this book is ~11k Upshots, thats 11k/75k aka ~15%. However my Black-arrow can hit for 45% (7.5k) from one VT.

  8. #33
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    Sep 2011
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    AFK in Dol Amroth
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionoil View Post
    So you prefer talking about inconsistent situation examples against classes that aren't 100% or one specific stealth burst damage class that has the weakest defense Creepside?
    Oh well, I prefer talking about constant solo damage first, then what that damage is buffed against important targets such as Healers.

    But let me try how you do it instead: heals per second verses TA Tyrant.
    Tyrant Trintr - Heal: 55,552; HPS: 241.4;
    Hallawing (cappy)- Heal: 32,042; HPS: 139.2;
    Aquitanius (mini)- Heal: 22,080; HPS: 95.9;
    TA Tyrant died after 3mins, the Capp+Mini heals are from the entire fight. Only other DPS was a Champ.

    Heartseeker on red Outpost troll was: 48,037 (note, Upshot hits harder, so my Upshot would be around 55k?)

    Now for relevant information, average solo damage on Warleaders and Defilers this book is ~11k Upshots, thats 11k/75k aka ~15%. However my Black-arrow can hit for 45% (7.5k) from one VT.
    Weakest defense? I'd target wargs if that was the case, not defilers.
    In group v group, those heals will not keep you alive over a 3min fight if the creeps are decent at best.

    You play over in E, which is a much larger server than DD so I'm sure you've seen your share of creep heal stacks. Have you ever tried killing a decent defiler with only 2 dps in a 6man group againts a creep raid with atleast 3 defilers and a Warleader?Without oathbreakers? Even in redline, they will laugh at your hits if you dont have the oathbreakers.
    Solo damage on warleaders and defilers? lol.. even if they are 30k upshots, you will not be soloing defilers and warleaders. good ones anyway.
    With oathbreakers and alot of burst dps, you can nuke fail of the month defilers consistently.
    [center][color=cyan]Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.[/color][/center]
    [center][img]http://bit.ly/1Oq7Mgg[/img][/center]
    [center]From Dwarrowdelf to Arkenstone | [color=red]Asylum | No-QQ[/color][/center]

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Croatia
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    92
    suggestion for hunter dev - play this class in etten, try to fight against high rank BA or spider...
    Sralethin (mighty hunter R11), Sraleth (mighty captain R11), Burovran (mighty warden R9)
    Mlatimir (mighty reaver R7), Vrtirepka (mighty warg R5) & rest of not so mighty alts :-)
    Member of Keepers of Silmarils on the Laurelin server

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Srale View Post
    suggestion for hunter dev - play this class in etten, try to fight against high rank BA or spider...
    Or hey... Even a reaver, perhaps.
    Feailuve - Aeviternus - Vesanus
    Brandywine

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  11. #36
    I stopped playing before the Helms Deep expansion.

    I come here, read this thread and...

    It's like I never left!
    My other Warhorse is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit,[I] Defiant-Class[/I], [I]U.S.S. Say My Name[/I], NCC-93144

 

 
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