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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    May I ask why? How did we get from "The defiler is the top priority" to "As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing"?

    Y, im wondering same ....

    Appreciate Jinjaah working hard on EM and taking time to answer (take flak!) etc, but cant help thinking its too little, 3 yrs too l8. The state of creep side and pvp in general is well documented elsewhere so wont go into that ... but since the devs RIP ruined pve making it a pointless faceroll and lack of end game content, i wonder if the great powers are realising pvp is the only end game and desperately trying to "fix it" within 1 update before ESO goes live.

    Theres so much resentment among creeps, even if Turbine managed to restore balance to the force, I doubt many will continue or even care anymore as there are other MMO options now. Customers will vote with their feet and given previous promises of balancing/scaling/updating creep classes im not even surprised at the above quote.

    Flaps (almost a R14 defiler...)

  2. #77
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glohir View Post
    I'm also curious what the policy is about this issue. Could you give us a direct answer if Multiboxing in the moors will still be allowed or will be punishable in the future?

    Absolteuly. We have several times. Mulitboxing is not a violation of any of our policies. In fact, the ability to run multiple clients is built into the game if you want to do it on a single machine instead of using several PCs. There is no plan to change this policy.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    Yes, this is the key. Our hps is not the main problem, it's just that it appears useless versus burst. Also the reason our hps usually sucks is because of the perma cc, induction interrupt, and addle slow. Defiler heal may need a tiny bump in scale but should not go too far if the other stuff is fixed. As for power cost, maybe this is an issue on lower levels, but I do not see it. I haven't used a power pot in years. But everyone has a different playstyle that should be addressed, it's just that takes time to investigate that they don't have before U13.

    My $0.02 if you are in a hurry to squeeze in any defiler changes in for U13 (that could be better than none), just quickly do the easy stuff that's obvious on its face:

    1. reduce inductions
    2. bump up every debuff to a meaningful number
    3. change damage type & bump up base dps numbers

    But don't forget about important defiler issues that require more investigation as to how to best fix in the future:
    - heal scale
    - power adjustment
    - counter-play to burst damage
    - counter-play to induction interrupt
    - counter-play to addle (if not cc in general)
    - add meaningful dps
    - rethink debuffs
    - rethink traits
    - in-combat rez
    - rethink flies as pet
    - etc.
    Sounds good and Jinjaah agrees (is that hope rekindled!!!) but id disagree with heal scale being 2nd priority. Even with no addle/CC etc, defiler hots stacked on 1 creep barely manage Dots from 1 freep. I realise reducing inductions (even removing them all together wouldnt make defiler OP at the moment) will help, but only to place the heals on in 1st place - if they're useless while on, its kinda pointless anyway. About the only good thing a defiler can do is boost inc healing by 15%. The Hots look just like an increase in ICMR. Curses utterly pointless. Blight resists - pool size nerfed to almost being pointless, blight damage not scaled. DPS non existent. Its just a waste of class atm.

    A defiler friend said, "at least NPCs dont have to walk back from the GY"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Absolteuly. We have several times. Mulitboxing is not a violation of any of our policies. In fact, the ability to run multiple clients is built into the game if you want to do it on a single machine instead of using several PCs. There is no plan to change this policy.
    and hopefully we can keep discussion of policy issues separate from the germane topic of creep adjustments and changes we may or may not see in the near future. This is a super useful and informative thread, and it would be awesome if it remained that way.
    [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img41/4553/73i4.jpg[/img]

    Even my Signature is trolling!

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Absolteuly. We have several times. Mulitboxing is not a violation of any of our policies. In fact, the ability to run multiple clients is built into the game if you want to do it on a single machine instead of using several PCs. There is no plan to change this policy.
    Maybe i should try to rephrase my question: Are you oke with players abusing serval and multiple skills from different accounts (with the use of multiboxing) in a PvmP environments to boost their main account?
    For example: a hunter being able to use some shield walls and shield of dunedains on him with a simple click on the screen triggering the boxed account skills.

    ~Edhun

    P.S. i dont intent to change the subject of this topic. I think this is actualy a major issue when it comes to balance and fixes in the Moors. Keep up the feedback!

  6. #81
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    and hopefully we can keep discussion of policy issues separate from the germane topic of creep adjustments and changes we may or may not see in the near future. This is a super useful and informative thread, and it would be awesome if it remained that way.
    I agree completely. So let me finish by answering this...

    Quote Originally Posted by edjepredje View Post
    Maybe i should try to rephrase my question: Are you oke with players abusing serval and multiple skills from different accounts (with the use of multiboxing) in a PvmP environments to boost their main account?
    For example: a hunter being able to use some shield walls and shield of dunedains on him with a simple click on the screen triggering the boxed account skills.

    ~Edhun

    P.S. i dont intent to change the subject of this topic. I think this is actualy a major issue when it comes to balance and fixes in the Moors. Keep up the feedback!
    ...by repeating my statement (which repeats countless other answers to various other questions in various other wordings that amount to the same question).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Mulitboxing is not a violation of any of our policies. In fact, the ability to run multiple clients is built into the game if you want to do it on a single machine instead of using several PCs. There is no plan to change this policy.

  7. #82

    Lalala*

    So, yes they're ok with it, we all have known for year after year after year after etc.
    Anyway: Good to see a Jinjaah I think. Your thoughts are appreciated. A blue name that is polite, not snarky and interacts maturely and very thorough in answering, it's almost as non-existent as defiler dps
    Also want to chime in: defilers could use some love. It's not just that class and it's systems (scaling healing, debuffs-potency, non-existent dps, inductions etc.) you will fix if healing and dps, read: sustainability will get boosted.
    It's a whole side in a pvp-zone that benefits from it. And that needs it I must add.. Take your time (about 6 years by now) to get it right. But get it in u13 please, puppy-eyes*
    Lalala*
    Last edited by lalalaNerfylalala; Feb 28 2014 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Lalala*

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I agree completely. So let me finish by answering this...



    ...by repeating my statement (which repeats countless other answers to various other questions in various other wordings that amount to the same question).
    Thanks for confirming Sapience.

    In my opinion this makes any balance changes you make invaled, it devaluates the ranks(in ettenmoors) of players, it discourages consumable boosts(no need when you got 10 accounts to save you/aid you in damage) and thus decreases your revenue from micro transaction and probebly your other revenue from subscribers aswell (a lot of players already left or quit because of this issue).

    ~Edhun

  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    I agree completely. So let me finish by answering this...



    ...by repeating my statement (which repeats countless other answers to various other questions in various other wordings that amount to the same question).
    Most people know that part. The issue at hand is that most multiboxers in the moors use 3rd party software to control the extra account's movement and skill usage. Multiboxing is supported, but the use of third party software to control characters is supposedly against the ToS, yet no action is taken in this regard. Maybe you could clarify on this point?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Absolteuly. We have several times. Mulitboxing is not a violation of any of our policies. In fact, the ability to run multiple clients is built into the game if you want to do it on a single machine instead of using several PCs. There is no plan to change this policy.

    What we told several times is the ability to use several accounts at once with a program. like this guy in here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noaMR...4kQseHrt7poluQ

    You can see his UI has one thing that allow all his wargs to perform the action at the same time.

    So, by your own CoC:

    18. You may not create, post, use or distribute any utilities, emulators or other third party software tools without the express written permission of Turbine (including, without limitation, macroing programs, botting programs, server emulators, client hacks, map hacks, and data gathering utilities).


    Too bad you guys don't even do an effort to follow your own rules

  11. #86
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    I don't think Multi-boxing is a big issue honestly.

    There are greater issues in the Ettenmoors. The greatest issue being more CONSISTENT love and attention from the dev's in regards to the evolution of ANYTHING in the Ettenmoors.

  12. #87
    Sapience, you should know that by doing that you are not finishing it...
    But the overall message is clear. Multiboxing is allowed. Period. You might not agree with it, that's your business, but don't go off-topic please, discuss it somewhere else.

    So to bring it back on-topic:

    I see lots of requests about removing autoflips, I've stated somewhere else (although it got lost) that I don't agree with that, but that autoflips should need some changes, being it should always aim for balance, it should not happen randomly, have a cooldown after a flip and the fact it was an autoflip should be clear. Than there is no more confusion, ability to use autoflips strategically, but no day-long grams/gv camping because lugz/TR doesn't flip (which is the one thing autoflips are good for).

    I agree with defiler inductions needing to be sped up. I looked at a bit and I was kinda shocked how long they are. The heals should perhaps improve with the stat changes in u13, so we should see if it needs further adjustments later.

    More important in the moors though is more counter-play, especially concerning cc, interrupts, debuffs, bleeds. Making most, if not all, DoTs pottable (no effect in pve) for freepside, with giving creeps more ability to cure these effects can go a long way with improving counter-play. I'd also like the corruptions system to be finally introduced in PvP, which could be counters to powerful buffs. The counter-play will have animations/cooldowns, meaning the players always have to decide whether the counter-play is worth the time, and that makes for interesting PvP.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Sapience, you should know that by doing that you are not finishing it...
    But the overall message is clear. Multiboxing is allowed. Period. You might not agree with it, that's your business, but don't go off-topic please, discuss it somewhere else.

    So to bring it back on-topic:

    I see lots of requests about removing autoflips, I've stated somewhere else (although it got lost) that I don't agree with that, but that autoflips should need some changes, being it should always aim for balance, it should not happen randomly, have a cooldown after a flip and the fact it was an autoflip should be clear. Than there is no more confusion, ability to use autoflips strategically, but no day-long grams/gv camping because lugz/TR doesn't flip (which is the one thing autoflips are good for).
    What if i told you, that autoflips on my main server Gilrain are also controled by multiboxed rank 1 wargs standing afk all day on the ledges in the keeps.

    ~Edhun

  14. #89
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    Sapience, you should know that by doing that you are not finishing it...
    But the overall message is clear. Multiboxing is allowed. Period. You might not agree with it, that's your business, but don't go off-topic please, discuss it somewhere else.

    So to bring it back on-topic:

    I see lots of requests about removing autoflips, I've stated somewhere else (although it got lost) that I don't agree with that, but that autoflips should need some changes, being it should always aim for balance, it should not happen randomly, have a cooldown after a flip and the fact it was an autoflip should be clear. Than there is no more confusion, ability to use autoflips strategically, but no day-long grams/gv camping because lugz/TR doesn't flip (which is the one thing autoflips are good for).
    Autoflips are something that we are looking into. There is a problem there but its not easy for us to track down. It sounds like the general consensus among players has always been to remove them completely, which is not off the table, but as they exist now should only happen every 6 or 8 hours (forget off the actual number top of my head). By the sounds of some of the feedback, it sounds like there is another issue lurking behind the scenes that is causing this to not properly function. So in summary, this is something I will look into but don't have any details of change on the near horizon.

    -Jinjaah

  15. #90
    1/24/2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    We are looking to do another healing pass for update 13 for creep classes. The defiler is the top priority.

    -Jinjaah
    2/27/2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing, but this remains something that I want to squeeze in if I can.

    -Jinjaah
    You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly sir! Bravo!

  16. #91
    What... what's this feeling...? I've never felt it before.... is it maybe... maybe what people call... hope?

    Yes it is, and you, Jinjaah, have given it to me. Hope that PvMP may one day be great again... Hope that issues will actually be fixed rather than ignored. Thank you SO much for all the work you're putting in and acknowledging the existence of auto-flips (don't think its ever been spoken of by Turbine) and working to fix them!

    PvMP, it seems, may become relevant again.

  17. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by edjepredje View Post
    What if i told you, that autoflips on my main server Gilrain are also controled by multiboxed rank 1 wargs standing afk all day on the ledges in the keeps.

    ~Edhun
    That's not uncommon at all on the server I play on, either.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Autoflips are something that we are looking into. There is a problem there but its not easy for us to track down. It sounds like the general consensus among players has always been to remove them completely, which is not off the table, but as they exist now should only happen every 6 or 8 hours (forget off the actual number top of my head). By the sounds of some of the feedback, it sounds like there is another issue lurking behind the scenes that is causing this to not properly function. So in summary, this is something I will look into but don't have any details of change on the near horizon.

    -Jinjaah
    Most of the time when they flip it's right after I visited a place where the mobs had unspawned, with me causing them to spawn again. If you leave quickly afterwards (within 1-2 minutes, if I had to guess), there is a very high chance that it will flip within 5 minutes after leaving the relevant area. (This can also happen if you map out immediately after taking a keep.) For this reason, it's a much bigger issue during mornings and on quiet servers than on big ones.
    Last edited by rannion; Feb 28 2014 at 07:09 PM.

  19. #94
    it is nice to see that blue name is actualy speaking to us, answering and stuff.
    Do not nerf impale please, i cant play without it.

  20. #95
    It is very pleasant to see blue-names responding and answering so many questions regarding PvMP and the Ettenmoors. However, my concerns and the multiple threads over the past months, that defilers need a serious revamp, seem to be somewhat ignored. In another thread it was stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    We are looking to do another healing pass for update 13 for creep classes. The defiler is the top priority.

    -Jinjaah
    But now the answer seems to be:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing, but this remains something that I want to squeeze in if I can.

    -Jinjaah
    I really hope you go back to the former answer. Our heals, debuffs, DPS - pretty much every aspect of the defiler is underwhelming. It's currently in-superior by a noticeable degree to it's Warleader counterpart, and far, far in-superior to the healing presented on Freepside. I understand that there are many and more things that need to be addressed in the 'moors; but please do not forget the lowly defilers. We need love too.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by edjepredje View Post
    What if i told you, that autoflips on my main server Gilrain are also controled by multiboxed rank 1 wargs standing afk all day on the ledges in the keeps.
    If these are AFK for extended periods of time, then that is a bug in the AFK timers.
    Which I know do exist, as I see random AFK characters standing around for hours, in different parts of the world, not just the Moors.

    /bug them!
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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  22. #97
    Seems to me the rationale for auto-flips was so that a map wouldn't be dominated by the side with larger numbers. Unfortunately, it seems often as not that the keep flips to the dominant side.

    If flips are not removed entirely they should be limited only to: TR will flip Blue if all 5 keeps are Red, and Lugz will flip Red if all 5 keeps are Blue.

    I could be probably be talking into LC and Isen flipping Red (on a fairly long timer) to facilitate Croobs turning in their map quests.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    If these are AFK for extended periods of time, then that is a bug in the AFK timers.
    Which I know do exist, as I see random AFK characters standing around for hours, in different parts of the world, not just the Moors.

    /bug them!
    Chances are they have manually tagged themselves as AFK and actually move the mouse on the screen every so often to keep from timing out.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad_ox1 View Post
    Chances are they have manually tagged themselves as AFK and actually move the mouse on the screen every so often to keep from timing out.
    This. I used to flag myself AFK and go clean, coming back every so often to check tells/kinchat and move my mouse before returning to dealing with RL things.
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  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joebob7 View Post
    What... what's this feeling...? I've never felt it before.... is it maybe... maybe what people call... hope?

    Yes it is, and you, Jinjaah, have given it to me. Hope that PvMP may one day be great again... Hope that issues will actually be fixed rather than ignored. Thank you SO much for all the work you're putting in and acknowledging the existence of auto-flips (don't think its ever been spoken of by Turbine) and working to fix them!

    PvMP, it seems, may become relevant again.
    Pvmp has steadily gone downhill with each update and expansion since MoM. The only positive thing the "pvp" dev has said was that defiler healing was a top priority then retracted that into saying "well... maybe it'll get changed"... and that gives you hope? That ship has sailed... into the west.

 

 
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