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  1. #51
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    I probably have a thousand questions I could add, but I want to thank Jinjaah MIGHTILY for stopping in to address some concerns and lay down some of what we may see in U13. It's always a pleasure to get this sort of look into the dev's mindsets.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    Would it be possible to completely remove auto-flips from the moors? I cannot think of a single good reason to have them with the present PvMP situation.
    I completely agree with this. Happens so often that we flip a keep, map out and halfway to whatever we're going to do next it flips back.
    Then, there's the other factor of that's how freeps and creeps let the other side know where they're at/still in the moors/ strategic fight moves. If the other side just assumes it's an auto they just continue business as usual.
    Auto-flips, not really so great in implementation. Nice attempt at something different.
    ~*~Ryssawyn~*~ (RK)
    Acheros (LM) Glitzen (Guard)
    Snozzberries Defiler of great taste.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    If weaver's damage is changed to fell-wrought, I have a bad feeling spider would be just as OP as it was in RoR... after picking my spider up again, all I find needing is a finesse buff/-target resist boost, plus the ability to summon pet in combat, and we'd be fine. Giving them fell-wrought damage would be just too much. Their CC/debuffing/survivability is potent, no need for their damage to be potent as well.


    I'm interested to see how the swap over to physical mitigation will look for low-survivability classes like RK and hunter. Seems like this has the potential to grind them into warg food... just my concern...
    There certainly may need to be some balancing, but putting all the creeps on the same page damage-wise seems like a no-brainer. Then future changes will be against one variable.

  4. #54
    i really hope update 13 brings more than creep virtues and stats bump and creep types being mitigated. In my mind they are far from being a fair trade to creepside, but I also don't know the numbers yet I guess. If this U13 is screwed up then it's going to be a LOOOOONG few months for creeps and grams camps galore. I sure hope there's some sort of creepside increase in dps and Deflier hps and fine tuning of freepside classes to go with the current changes.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing, but this remains something that I want to squeeze in if I can.

    -Jinjaah
    please please please squeeze this in as I know there are a lot of defilers that got really excited at the prospect of being top priority in update 13 and will be really disappointed not to get any loving.

    In fact some are even contemplating running away from the fite, abandoning Sauron and donning hobbit disguises to go fishing in the Shire.

    Defilers need decent heals to combat the high dps of feeps, at the moment they just look cute n cuddly freep bait.



    Naughtybutnice rk 11 defi on Eldar

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by mrfigglesworth View Post
    i really hope update 13 brings more than creep virtues and stats bump and creep types being mitigated. In my mind they are far from being a fair trade to creepside, but I also don't know the numbers yet I guess. If this U13 is screwed up then it's going to be a LOOOOONG few months for creeps and grams camps galore. I sure hope there's some sort of creepside increase in dps and Deflier hps and fine tuning of freepside classes to go with the current changes.
    Lol, if thats the case, mugoth will be back in lug for a few hours a night

    Jinjaah, is there any way that you can tell us about how you are, atleast hoping, to address the issue of the auto flips ? or the keep/op buffs? all you have to do is remove coding for that im sure, surely it can't be much more than removing.
    [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/1repgl.jpg[/IMG]
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    So why even consider a change that gives heavies additional mitigations when something will have to be added to lower those increased mitigations? Freep heavies can already solo keeps, so they need more mitigations?
    Its true that heavies can solo keeps but they are not the only classes. However they have the mitigation of a lightarmour now against Creeps which is not fair.
    On the otherhand some traitline will be godmode. Yellowline cappy will survive even better and you prob need a good raid to beat one, same goes to blue line maybe also yellow line guards and blueline champs. So i suggest either disable those traitlines in moors or nerf them and buff creep damage that the can kill them but so thats not an overkill for lightarmours.

    What I suggest with teal/good gear: (DPS Spec)
    Heavies: 50-60% mits
    Medium: 40%+ mits
    Lightarmour: 30-35% mits

    What should be also looked at is the damage/ healing output on both side skill by skill.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    This is definitely something that we have thought about. A solution that we could look further into is perhaps making some of those traits that change damage for creeps become toggle skills that change their damage type. I do agree though that it seems a bit odd with the new types to trait away from them.

    -Jinjaah
    Thanks a lot for your hard work, hopefully it won't drive you mad :P
    ww
    A toggle skill would be fantastic, seeing as creeps should've have to spend a trait slot just for damage type!


    Crickhollow l Thorfinn || r14 champ, r12 burglar- Crickhollow || r11//r9 warg Crick//Elendilmir || + other stuff

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moors-Battlemaster View Post
    Would it be possible to completely remove auto-flips from the moors? I cannot think of a single good reason to have them with the present PvMP situation.
    How about if a player flips something, the message is different than when it's an auto-flip?

  10. #60
    Defiler heals/traits are a few things on list, but any chance of these points being changed any time?

    -Tagging renown, getting 50% of points for just hitting target once. Why should someone/even worst a group get most of my points for me fighting a freep? Can we not change this back to how it was at level 75 and before.
    -Removing healing for renown/comms. I don't see why a defiler sitting back in a rezze point or a keep putting 30sec hots should earn my points. Once again can we now change this back to how it was before. Or at least make it so they don't get 50% of the points. Also same problem on freep side with captains WoC.
    -Keep Buffs/DOF buffs. Main problem with these is the buffs are too high, offering 200%? this should be at least lowered. But also causing extra unnecessary buffs on the buff bar causing more lag. At the least can we not have just a simple %number in the corner of our screen or even on our map telling us the % of buffs we have instead of causing extra buffs for no reason.
    -Outpost buffs. Nobody can agree with this, these buffs just simply need to go. Why should a someone be able to beat someone in PVP because they did more PVE. Doesn't add up, so once again can we not change this to how it was.
    -Autoflips like someone mentioned, this is another thing which I don't understand why this is in place, at least change the message so we know when its a auto. But regardless they shouldn't be in place. Maybe at least change it so Luga/TR Can't auto? So each side can keep a rezze point.
    -Possibly OLD Luga/TR rezze points with old EC/OC locations?

    These are just a few points I can think of, but these should be some of the top points to be looked at, I would also add the KB deed change but that's way too late to change now.
    A respond to this would be appreciated.

    Off point: Is there really no chance of Turbine thinking about old update servers? Releasing a different launcher or something to play servers with old updates?

    Cheers.
    [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34E4z-xOOUA]High Chieftain Nufnuff[/url]
    DE Vanyar

  11. #61
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    Yeah, why should healers be rewarded for doing their job? It's all about DPS, right?
    [LEFT][COLOR=#ffffff]Morlenil Barkolomew Turmuz Shurz Gruubluk

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  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    Yeah, why should healers be rewarded for doing their job? It's all about DPS, right?
    Sitting in rezze point putting 30sec hots = their job? OK bro
    [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34E4z-xOOUA]High Chieftain Nufnuff[/url]
    DE Vanyar

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing, but this remains something that I want to squeeze in if I can.

    -Jinjaah
    "The defiler is the top priority." please stand behind your words.

    some simple defiler tweaks would atleast be nice:

    1. reduce inductions

    2. scale healing

    3. lower power cost

    4. increase dps

    reduced induction on Fell Resto and Efflorescnce, filers are pretty useless at combating freep spike dmg or make Blessing similar to shield wall where it can be used on the move.

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE REMOVE AUTO FLIPS...

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by falzr View Post
    Defiler heals/traits are a few things on list, but any chance of these points being changed any time?

    -Tagging renown, getting 50% of points for just hitting target once. Why should someone/even worst a group get most of my points for me fighting a freep? Can we not change this back to how it was at level 75 and before.
    -Removing healing for renown/comms. I don't see why a defiler sitting back in a rezze point or a keep putting 30sec hots should earn my points. Once again can we now change this back to how it was before. Or at least make it so they don't get 50% of the points. Also same problem on freep side with captains WoC.
    -Keep Buffs/DOF buffs. Main problem with these is the buffs are too high, offering 200%? this should be at least lowered. But also causing extra unnecessary buffs on the buff bar causing more lag. At the least can we not have just a simple %number in the corner of our screen or even on our map telling us the % of buffs we have instead of causing extra buffs for no reason.
    -Outpost buffs. Nobody can agree with this, these buffs just simply need to go. Why should a someone be able to beat someone in PVP because they did more PVE. Doesn't add up, so once again can we not change this to how it was.
    -Autoflips like someone mentioned, this is another thing which I don't understand why this is in place, at least change the message so we know when its a auto. But regardless they shouldn't be in place. Maybe at least change it so Luga/TR Can't auto? So each side can keep a rezze point.
    -Possibly OLD Luga/TR rezze points with old EC/OC locations?

    These are just a few points I can think of, but these should be some of the top points to be looked at, I would also add the KB deed change but that's way too late to change now.
    A respond to this would be appreciated.

    Off point: Is there really no chance of Turbine thinking about old update servers? Releasing a different launcher or something to play servers with old updates?

    Cheers.
    the only thing that need to go are auto flips everything else is good and adds movement/strategy to the map. without the buffs the fighting would be stagnate like the old STAB TA lawn days.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Rupture1 View Post
    filers are pretty useless at combating freep spike dmg
    Yes, this is the key. Our hps is not the main problem, it's just that it appears useless versus burst. Also the reason our hps usually sucks is because of the perma cc, induction interrupt, and addle slow. Defiler heal may need a tiny bump in scale but should not go too far if the other stuff is fixed. As for power cost, maybe this is an issue on lower levels, but I do not see it. I haven't used a power pot in years. But everyone has a different playstyle that should be addressed, it's just that takes time to investigate that they don't have before U13.

    My $0.02 if you are in a hurry to squeeze in any defiler changes in for U13 (that could be better than none), just quickly do the easy stuff that's obvious on its face:

    1. reduce inductions
    2. bump up every debuff to a meaningful number
    3. change damage type & bump up base dps numbers

    But don't forget about important defiler issues that require more investigation as to how to best fix in the future:
    - heal scale
    - power adjustment
    - counter-play to burst damage
    - counter-play to induction interrupt
    - counter-play to addle (if not cc in general)
    - add meaningful dps
    - rethink debuffs
    - rethink traits
    - in-combat rez
    - rethink flies as pet
    - etc.
    Sniz(defiler) / Johanson(cappy)

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    Yes, this is the key. Our hps is not the main problem, it's just that it appears useless versus burst. Also the reason our hps usually sucks is because of the perma cc, induction interrupt, and addle slow. Defiler heal may need a tiny bump in scale but should not go too far if the other stuff is fixed. As for power cost, maybe this is an issue on lower levels, but I do not see it. I haven't used a power pot in years. But everyone has a different playstyle that should be addressed, it's just that takes time to investigate that they don't have before U13.

    My $0.02 if you are in a hurry to squeeze in any defiler changes in for U13 (that could be better than none), just quickly do the easy stuff that's obvious on its face:

    1. reduce inductions
    2. bump up every debuff to a meaningful number
    3. change damage type & bump up base dps numbers

    But don't forget about important defiler issues that require more investigation as to how to best fix in the future:
    - heal scale
    - power adjustment
    - counter-play to burst damage
    - counter-play to induction interrupt
    - counter-play to addle (if not cc in general)
    - add meaningful dps
    - rethink debuffs
    - rethink traits
    - in-combat rez
    - rethink flies as pet
    - etc.
    This is why it may be hard to "squeeze" in.

    Defilers need more than boosting numbers, and it requires a bit of analysis over how the non-quantitative changes effect the overall output, so that the numerical increases can be targeted.

    Ultimately, we will also need to look at legacied addle.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    I haven't used a power pot in years.
    power issues are while dps'ing npcs or really long heal heavy fights (should have specified) power issue is minor compared to the other glaring issues with this class.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    requires a bit of analysis.
    maybe they can actually use Bullroarer numbers for analysis. *sarcasm*
    Last edited by Rupture1; Feb 28 2014 at 12:22 PM.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing, but this remains something that I want to squeeze in if I can.

    -Jinjaah
    May I ask why? How did we get from "The defiler is the top priority" to "As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing"?
    Last edited by Nouri; Feb 28 2014 at 12:35 PM.

    Casinoari - Rank 15 RK
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  19. #69
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nouri View Post
    May I ask why? How did we get from "The defiler is the top priority" to "As of right now, we haven't really touched the defiler healing"?
    Well its a little unfair to twist that quote that way but what it comes down to is time. The quote is in reference to the Defiler being the top priority for the healing pass we were planning. That doesn't mean he was the top of everything else. As I mentioned before I am trying to squeeze everything in I can and if we can take a look at healing, the defiler will get top priority.

    Although I do like Sniz's suggestions mentioned above about potential fixes that are a little smaller in scope, but like stickieez alluded to, it is no small amount of work.

    -Jinjaah

  20. #70
    It really feels like defiler buffs should be more of the priority then hoping mit changes will work and not back-fire. If Moors updates were often enough to quickly fix problems then I could see trying out stuff but being stuck for months with god-mode heavies who can still throw out nasty bleeds will be a huge problem if it doesn't work.

    WL is only effective healer on creepside while minis, cappies and rks (RKs might not be as OP as they used to be but still miles ahead of defilers) can all heal effectively freepside. Needs more diversity.

    Still appreciate you communicating in a non-snarky manner.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Well its a little unfair to twist that quote that way but what it comes down to is time. The quote is in reference to the Defiler being the top priority for the healing pass we were planning. That doesn't mean he was the top of everything else. As I mentioned before I am trying to squeeze everything in I can and if we can take a look at healing, the defiler will get top priority.

    Although I do like Sniz's suggestions mentioned above about potential fixes that are a little smaller in scope, but like stickieez alluded to, it is no small amount of work.

    -Jinjaah
    By all means, go for the low-hanging fruit if you're pressed for time and resources. I'd imagine most people would prefer to see quick easy fixes (like to auto-flips and bugged skills) and smaller incremental changes than Big changes that will necessitate lots of additional fixes themselves.

    P.S.
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    hoping mit changes will work and not back-fire.
    ^^ You're taking a big gamble there! Wouldn't time be better spent fixing existing bugs, when you know that will make people happy, rather than take a chance on something like mit changes that have the potential to "back-fire" and make a lot of people mad?
    Last edited by Nouri; Feb 28 2014 at 01:37 PM.

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by edjepredje View Post
    It's good to see some developer communication. Thanks for this so far Jinjaah.

    One thing comes to mind regarding the Ettenmoors balance:

    What is your (Turbine's) policy on the multi-boxing players in the Ettenmoors?
    You can balance all you want, but if people are still allowed to bring and control 10 accounts at the same time it seems pointless. This has been happening on alot of servers including Meneldor, Laurelin and Gilrain that i know of personally. Here is an example (youtube video):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noaMRwlJ6qs&noredirect=1

    ~Edhun
    I'm also curious what the policy is about this issue. Could you give us a direct answer if Multiboxing in the moors will still be allowed or will be punishable in the future?
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  23. #73
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    It really feels like defiler buffs should be more of the priority then hoping mit changes will work and not back-fire. If Moors updates were often enough to quickly fix problems then I could see trying out stuff but being stuck for months with god-mode heavies who can still throw out nasty bleeds will be a huge problem if it doesn't work.

    WL is only effective healer on creepside while minis, cappies and rks (RKs might not be as OP as they used to be but still miles ahead of defilers) can all heal effectively freepside. Needs more diversity.

    Still appreciate you communicating in a non-snarky manner.
    The mit changes were a bug that reached beyond the Ettenmoors which is why it was higher priority. I agree though about the variety, just hope the time allows us to make some changes.

    -Jinjaah

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glohir View Post
    I'm also curious what the policy is about this issue. Could you give us a direct answer if Multiboxing in the moors will still be allowed or will be punishable in the future?
    Boxing has nothing to do with developer's work, mon. You're asking the wrong person about the issue
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    just hope the time allows us to make some changes.
    how much time is left? *wink wink*

 

 
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