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  1. #1
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    Where's Jinjaah? We miss you

    You lost in the shire?
    Captains are clearly made of sunshine and rainbows. I thought that much was obvious. - RockX

    Essie - Tr.

  2. #2
    Heh, yes now would be a good time to chime in as the latest producer notes might lead some to "now is the perfect time to panic!" mode, since there's zero mention of any moors work for U13. As of now I'm keeping the faith that the creep rebalancing & defiler update is still part of the plan despite the omission. But I have to admit it is a little unsettling only reading about things I don't give a rat's patootie about like ent & festival cra -- er, items only catering to casual role players.
    Sniz(defiler) / Johanson(cappy)

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    since there's zero mention of any moors work for U13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    moors work
    Not sure if what they do to the 'Moors can be considered 'work'. When I think about them tinkering around with it, things like this come to mind.



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  4. #4
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...43#post7085843

    We are looking to do another healing pass for update 13 for creep classes. The defiler is the top priority.
    -Jinjaah
    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...50#post7087750

    We can talk in more detail when things get closer as to what changes are coming, but one that I will mention on the creep side is some re-configuring of creep base stats and corruptions. Over the years, these haven't got a ton of love, which has caused many stats like finesse and b/p/e to lag behind their freep counter-parts. We hope to bring these back up to acceptable levels for update 13.

    Once again, we can talk more in detail as we get closer, but a heads up is always nice.

    -Jinjaah
    For posterity:-)
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  5. #5
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    All of those posts were done before the layoffs.

    The question is really:

    1. Is this still Jinjaah's area of responsibility (we lost some systems design folks leaving 3 classes without a dev, no way of knowing without word how this is being reorganized)?
    2. Will they complete U13 as planned before the cuts? Or did the cuts alter the plans/what can conceivable be completed for this update.

    I'm not surprised we aren't seeing new posts from Jinjaah. He's likely 2x as busy.

    I'd still like to know more about U13. My great fear is that some of the changes will go in half baked, and we just won't ever see the rest... stacking a steaming pile of "not complete" on top of the several hundred already existing steaming piles of "not complete".

    Let's say they tweak some of our stats and lower some of our skill damages... but leave the rest... etc.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  6. #6
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Hey All,

    I did in fact get lost in the Shire...so pretty this time of year...But on a serious note I have in fact been very busy and the recent events have changed some of our U13 plans for the Ettenmoors.

    I am trying to put in some extra time and push through a lot of the things we talk about but here are some things that have been completed:
    - The new PVMP damage types are now properly passing through physical mitigation. This means that the additional mitigation tacked onto audacity has been removed.
    - We did some tweaks some things within the Ettenmoors like increasing the damage from the murder holes in TA from 500 common damage to % health.
    - We did some stat adjustments to the Creep core virtues (on the character panel, the categories with squares next to them). Most of these have never been updated since Monsterplay came into existence, which was part of what caused such a discrepancy in stats between freeps and creeps.
    - Trying to clear out a lot of bugs that have been lingering for far too long on the creep side.

    There were some other things that we are working on that we can talk about at a later date since its fairly early in their testing. Some things I would still like to do is a damage / healing pass if time permits.

    -Jinjaah

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    There were some other things that we are working on that we can talk about at a later date since its fairly early in their testing
    -Jinjaah
    Any chance that you can tell us anything about the Ettenmoors pass? Here are my questions if you can.

    1. Is it a time-based unlock or permanent unlock?
    2. If it is permanent, is it for the character or the account?
    3. Is it expected to make the U13 build?
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    Hey All,

    I did in fact get lost in the Shire...so pretty this time of year...But on a serious note I have in fact been very busy and the recent events have changed some of our U13 plans for the Ettenmoors.

    I am trying to put in some extra time and push through a lot of the things we talk about but here are some things that have been completed:
    - The new PVMP damage types are now properly passing through physical mitigation. This means that the additional mitigation tacked onto audacity has been removed.
    - We did some tweaks some things within the Ettenmoors like increasing the damage from the murder holes in TA from 500 common damage to % health.
    - We did some stat adjustments to the Creep core virtues (on the character panel, the categories with squares next to them). Most of these have never been updated since Monsterplay came into existence, which was part of what caused such a discrepancy in stats between freeps and creeps.
    - Trying to clear out a lot of bugs that have been lingering for far too long on the creep side.

    There were some other things that we are working on that we can talk about at a later date since its fairly early in their testing. Some things I would still like to do is a damage / healing pass if time permits.

    -Jinjaah

    So if I understand this right Orc Craft and Fell Wrought will now be checked against physical mitigation? Terrible news for anyone trying to kill a guard, captain, or champion as their inherently high might ratio allows easy over-capping of physical mit.

    Not sure why this change was put in front of the massive healing imbalance. Minstrels need a major tweak to bring them into alignment .

    I assume the stat changes on creep side will also reflect on racial stat points/percentages, especially considering there current state.

  9. #9
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Any chance that you can tell us anything about the Ettenmoors pass? Here are my questions if you can.

    1. Is it a time-based unlock or permanent unlock?
    2. If it is permanent, is it for the character or the account?
    3. Is it expected to make the U13 build?
    We are looking at a time based unlock.

    -Jinjaah

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    H
    - The new PVMP damage types are now properly passing through physical mitigation. This means that the additional mitigation tacked onto audacity has been removed.
    So it is true you have increased Freeps mitigations. Very much needed... Top priority, obviously.
    Bravo!
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    - The new PVMP damage types are now properly passing through physical mitigation. This means that the additional mitigation tacked onto audacity has been removed.


    There were some other things that we are working on that we can talk about at a later date since its fairly early in their testing. Some things I would still like to do is a damage / healing pass if time permits.

    -Jinjaah
    This is definitely a good thing in concept. Minstrels and Guards should not have the same incoming damage rate. On the other hand, with the levels of mitigations heavy classes can easily achieve, along with the current potency of their self-heals and damage, you as developers have painted yourselves into a bit of a corner.


    How are you planning to allow heavy classes that are already quite competitive, or among the more powerful classes in the moors (not counting red champs here) with a 30% mitigation rate to be even remotely challenged by creeps when they have 65-80% mitigations? If creep damage, whether through base stat adjustments or the damage / healing pass makes it through, scales things up to where creeps are still hitting heavies about as hard as they do now, that seems like it would mean a light armour class would be reduced to ashes if a dps creep so much as looked at it funny.

    How do you plan to reconcile these issues?
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  12. #12
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    So if I understand this right Orc Craft and Fell Wrought will now be checked against physical mitigation? Terrible news for anyone trying to kill a guard, captain, or champion as their inherently high might ratio allows easy over-capping of physical mit.

    Not sure why this change was put in front of the massive healing imbalance. Minstrels need a major tweak to bring them into alignment .

    I assume the stat changes on creep side will also reflect on racial stat points/percentages, especially considering there current state.
    Well the physical mitigation change was something that was meant to be there to begin with. As I mentioned, I am doing my best to try and get some damage pass in before u13 but I think the increase in base stats will also provide creeps with some much needed defensive and offensive boosts.

    As for the racial points I believe you are referring to the racial traits that you can slot? Those were not touched yet but are still on the radar. It came down to having to choose which places to attack first and we felt we got way more bang for our buck on the core virtue changes at this time.

    -Jinjaah

  13. #13
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    I know the defiler is top priority for update 13 at least in healing. But are the Defiler/Warleader and spider getting a dps boost aswell with update 13?
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  14. #14
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    This is definitely a good thing in concept. Minstrels and Guards should not have the same incoming damage rate. On the other hand, with the levels of mitigations heavy classes can easily achieve, along with the current potency of their self-heals and damage, you as developers have painted yourself into a bit of a corner.


    How are you planning to allow heavy classes that are already quite competitive, or among the more powerful classes in the moors (not counting red champs here) with a 30% mitigation rate to be even remotely challenged by creeps when they have 65-80% mitigations? If creep damage, whether through base stat adjustments or the damage / healing pass makes it through, scales things up to where creeps are still hitting heavies about as hard as they do now, that seems like it would mean a light armour class would be reduced to ashes if a dps creep so much as looked at it funny.

    How do you plan to reconcile these issues?
    I guess I should also clarify that while it passes through physical mitigation, it does so at a reduced rate. similar to how westernesse or bel damage passes through for creeps. With this change, it will also be visible on the freep panel by hovering over the physical mitigation panel.

    To answer the second part of your question, I think there is some things we can do besides damage passes to help mitigate some of your concerns. One thing is addressing the deficiency that creeps have in finesse to over come some heavy avoidance totals as well as some possible Armour/physical mitigation debuffs in the future. Overall I think its an issue we can't solve over night but one we can continue to work towards over the course of a few updates.

    -Jinjaah

  15. #15
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glohir View Post
    I know the defiler is top priority for update 13 at least in healing. But are the Defiler/Warleader and spider getting a dps boost aswell with update 13?
    It really comes down to the amount of time we have. I would like to say yes to all, but it may not be in the cards for u13. That's kind of a weak answer, but its all I can give at this point.

    -Jinjaah

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    I guess I should also clarify that while it passes through physical mitigation, it does so at a reduced rate. similar to how westernesse or bel damage passes through for creeps. With this change, it will also be visible on the freep panel by hovering over the physical mitigation panel.

    To answer the second part of your question, I think there is some things we can do besides damage passes to help mitigate some of your concerns. One thing is addressing the deficiency that creeps have in finesse to over come some heavy avoidance totals as well as some possible Armour/physical mitigation debuffs in the future. Overall I think its an issue we can't solve over night but one we can continue to work towards over the course of a few updates.

    -Jinjaah
    While much of that may alleviate the issue of heavies outmitigating creep damage, where does that leave the light (and medium) armoured classes, particulalry additional armour/mitigation reductions?

    It seems like either light, medium, and heavy classes need to have different mitigation rates for orc-craft/fell-wrought such that say:
    40% common mit on a light = 35% orc-craft mits
    50% common mit on a medium = 40% orc-craft mits
    70% common mits on a heavy = 50% orc-craft mits

    or the freep updates need significant further retweaking so that the amount of self-healing guards/wardens/cappies/champs can do is reduced (or their dmg output is reduced).

    Regardless, thanks for the reply, keeping us updated, and generally doing what you can for this zone.
    Last edited by spelunker; Feb 27 2014 at 02:48 PM.
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  17. #17
    I guess that's kind of confirmation that the defiler revamp isn't gonna happen. Oh well, at this point I appreciate any work being done on the moors at all and I get the big picture stuff needs to get fixed first. But please don't forget the easy little stuff, too. This stuff shouldn't take too much time and it really needs priority to go into U13, like:

    -adjust the LM set piece bonus so the frost lore silence has a cooldown.
    -change keep backdoors to only use out of combat.
    -no logging out in combat.
    -reset weaver web to how it used to be.
    -bugged traits hurting instead of helping (reaver quick strikes increases attack duration instead of decreases it, WL aura of command?)
    -creep armor and evade pots to not share a cooldown

    (this & other stuff at the thread https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...63#post7098463)

    Good luck!
    Sniz(defiler) / Johanson(cappy)

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinjaah View Post
    It really comes down to the amount of time we have. I would like to say yes to all, but it may not be in the cards for u13. That's kind of a weak answer, but its all I can give at this point.

    -Jinjaah
    Thank you for your forthright answers, even if its not what we may have hoped.

    I notice you didn't respond one way or another on the Ettenmoors pass making U13, I shall in that case, remain optimistic that I will see it (and that it will be reasonably priced) soon!

    (Actually, the account/vs/character) question should probably have been for the timed-based as well, but I imagine making it account-wide and timed based is probably extremely complicated (subscription type perhaps PremiumEttens/F2PEttens? vs F2P vs VIP vs Premium)
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  19. #19
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    While much of that may alleviate the issue of heavies outmitigating creep damage, where does that leave the light (and medium) armoured classes, particulalry additional armour/mitigation reductions?

    Regardless, thanks for the reply, keeping us updated, and generally doing what you can for this zone.
    It will certainly leave them in a dangerous spot but we can play with how we want to go about implementing these things based on who we are trying to target with these types of effects. For example, if we wanted to target the heavy classes with a armour debuff but were concerned it would be too much for light armour classes, we could look at debuffing the the physical mitigation rating by a percentage, so lower values get less of an effect. Not saying this is something we will do, but its something we will keep an eye on.

    -Jinjaah

  20. #20
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    I guess that's kind of confirmation that the defiler revamp isn't gonna happen. Oh well, at this point I appreciate any work being done on the moors at all and I get the big picture stuff needs to get fixed first. But please don't forget the easy little stuff, too. This stuff shouldn't take too much time and it really needs priority to go into U13, like:

    -adjust the LM set piece bonus so the frost lore silence has a cooldown.
    -change keep backdoors to only use out of combat.
    -no logging out in combat.
    -reset weaver web to how it used to be.
    -bugged traits hurting instead of helping (reaver quick strikes increases attack duration instead of decreases it, WL aura of command?)
    -creep armor and evade pots to not share a cooldown

    (this & other stuff at the thread https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...63#post7098463)

    Good luck!
    Some of these things listed were addressed and some are on the radar. I will dig into that thread some more and see if I can find some more things to slip into u13.

    -Jinjaah

  21. #21
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Thank you for your forthright answers, even if its not what we may have hoped.

    I notice you didn't respond one way or another on the Ettenmoors pass making U13, I shall in that case, remain optimistic that I will see it (and that it will be reasonably priced) soon!

    (Actually, the account/vs/character) question should probably have been for the timed-based as well, but I imagine making it account-wide and timed based is probably extremely complicated (subscription type perhaps PremiumEttens/F2PEttens? vs F2P vs VIP vs Premium)
    Yeah I can't really say more than we are looking at it. Once we have something final on whether or not it is actually a thing, we can talk about it more. But I don't want to write any more checks I can't cash, U13 is already full of them

    -Jinjaah

  22. #22
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    Thanks for the taking the time to talk to tell us a little of what you have in mind.
    It is very much appreciated.

    and if catapults do make it to the moors I want to load them with fellow players not stones....
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  23. #23
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    Could you maybe tell us when to expect update 13 exactly?
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  24. #24
    Jinjaah is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkroll View Post
    Thanks for the taking the time to talk to tell us a little of what you have in mind.
    It is very much appreciated.

    and if catapults do make it to the moors I want to load them with fellow players not stones....
    If catapults ever made it into the moors I would demand that little red headed hobbits named "Jinjaah" would be an ammo type.

    -Jinjaah

  25. #25
    Just one question from me, as I couldn't understand. Do defiler heals get scaled properly in u13?
    Thank you for popping and answering our questions, in advance
    POLARIS --> Esta Sinome
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