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  1. #1

    I think Big Battles should be convert to session play..

    Then I wouldn't be so ticked off when I am playing my class. Now I am not talking about session play in the traditional sense. Instead we play a pre defined character with his/her given skills. It is still solo/duo/6/12 man option. You would get the rewards the same way (though for the love of all that is good please stop with the duplicate loot or make it bound to account).


    If this was the case then I wouldn't find my self getting bitter because the majority of my skills on all my classes in BB are useless. My hunter can't shoot fast enough to make a difference. Blue line I run around and try and kill and hope I get a shot off. The traps of the yellow line are like small annoyances that in most cases just means for my fellow NPC to hurry and break that CC. (Surprising though when I rank my engineer line the traps work much better then my native hunter traps). My LM goes in Blue line and sets my pet to aggressive. I stand around and watch until the next side quest pops up. Occasionally I heal here and there. My RK runs around like a chicken with its head cut off. Thanks for the temporary fix that allows my attunement to last when out of combat a little longer (before this fix, I spoke many dwarvish curse words that I didn't even think I knew). My warden runs yellow so I can pretend I am a hunter with the same results. I become a button masher without much luck. I 've ran all my classes in the BB except my burg, I am thinking I would run around in stealth with the occasion stab in the back. But i am not even sure if stealth would work.


    It is frustrating. If I were to instead be playing a session player I could be an archer, or soldier or whatever. The skills would fit into the game and I wouldn't be reminded how useless I am in these events. This is the future of LOTRO apparently. This is the end game but in reality we play to get new jewelry to buff or characters up but for what point?
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  2. #2
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    The big battles are basically a race to rank 6 and once you get that, you set up the big battle, maybe kill a catapult or two, turn on Netflix and wait for the side quest to entertain you for 1 min. I find hunter and mini to be the most useful. Hunters because of the speed bonuses and ranged attacks, mini because you can heal objects that get damaged. I despise BBs on my captain because as a melee class, they're horrid just chasing #### around.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  3. #3
    In order to go through the epic quest line, they all have to be done. There should be an option to skip them. They are not like skirmishes where a player actually uses their characters' skills, or actually participates in the battles.

    I'm currently playing one of them as I type. Just waiting for it to finish so I can get through the story line.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jab723 View Post
    In order to go through the epic quest line, they all have to be done. There should be an option to skip them. They are not like skirmishes where a player actually uses their characters' skills, or actually participates in the battles.

    I'm currently playing one of them as I type. Just waiting for it to finish so I can get through the story line.
    I imagine for my alts when they go through, I'll just load up a big battle and then go read a book or something until it's done.

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    I imagine for my alts when they go through, I'll just load up a big battle and then go read a book or something until it's done.
    Best to worst classes for BBs in my experience:

    1=: Minstrel, LM
    3: RK
    4: Hunter
    5: Captain
    6: Warden
    7: Champion
    8: Guard
    9: Burg.

    Anyone who does a BB without either ranged DPS or healing is in a bad situation, particularly without AOE.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    Best to worst classes for BBs in my experience:

    1=: Minstrel, LM
    3: RK
    4: Hunter
    5: Captain
    6: Warden
    7: Champion
    8: Guard
    9: Burg.

    Anyone who does a BB without either ranged DPS or healing is in a bad situation, particularly without AOE.
    Healing is almost worthless in there. Anyone who does a BB solo without ranged AOE is in a bad situation. Only my main has finished her epic book and that's because she's a minstrel. Two others went in, tried one or two through the epic, then just quit. It's easier to buy a symbol than open the books for a free one.
    Last edited by Beaniemooch; Feb 21 2014 at 11:15 AM.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  7. #7
    I wrote the OP when I was trying to leveling up a burg with a friend who was new to the game. He asked if he should buy HD and i told him to wait till he hits 85. He said he would miss out on the Big Battle experience. I decided to see how it would be worth it for a low level. The scaling is a joke. I had the best of what I could find at level 10 and joined Helms Dike. The scaling is embarrassing. And of course being on a burg didn't make matters any easier. Not only could I do no damage but my one CC was shrugged off like a gnat. The side quest of protecting the archer came and I was doing my best running around and doing nothing. There was a commander on an archer. I CC him, did everything I could to distract him but nothing worked. It was like throwing water balloons at him. Finally he killed the archer then turned on me! The only time in the freaking BB that I could grab aggro. I ran through all my NPCs allies and they act like he wasn't even there. I spent the rest of the stupid instance running for my life. He chased me everywhere and finally caught me by the horse stables. I died quickly. There goes my undying deed.

    I know it was a marketing ploy to get people with low levels to buy HD but I can only think that it back fired. When does the scaling work? I tried this week with a level 20 Minnie. It was slightly better because I did it with another level 20 minnie but in reality it was frustrating.

    I do have a higher ranked engineer and the it becomes easier and just as boring. I decided that other then the story line I will not do them.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  8. #8
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    It does already seem like a session play. I play a champion to run in screaming bloody murder while provided much deserved massacre to this enemies around me. Trying to do this in BB was rage inducing and frustrating. I was chasing enemies around like an idiot, barely able to get one swing in before they quickly dropped to NPC's. I refuse to play an engineer as it is completely opposite to what my playstyle is. It just seems strange that this very hyped feature feels so restricting. Why revamp the classes so drastically to make them completely insignificant in the expansions biggest feature?

  9. #9
    I agree. You do not play your class when you are in there. You are an officer, engineer or vanguard.

    The only one that can be a hassle for Epic Line credit is the first one. Helms Dike. It depends on what side quests you get. You get the burn down the gate with the flamethrower when the third wave is coming up the same channel that the attackers that after your archers. This combination is a nightmare on a zero point character doing the first Big Battle. I went thru this scenario today with Lore Master. They killed all ten soldiers, both commanders and Gamling to fail the mission. I got the first two side quests done.

    The other four are extremely easy with little to no points to spend. I have not done all five with my Burglar, Captain, Champion, Guardian, Hunter, Lore Master and Minstrel. I try to do one or two attempts per day. It is going to take me close to a month.

    My personal opinion - Big Battles are Session Play currently. The Session play is built around your character instead of character that Turbine built for you.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post

    My personal opinion - Big Battles are Session Play currently. The Session play is built around your character instead of character that Turbine built for you.
    The one difference being that your performance/enjoyability can SIGNIFICANTLY change over time as you gain access to more abilities.

    Would you find them much funner if we all had R6 abilities out of the starting gate instead of having to grind your way up there? I probably would.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    The one difference being that your performance/enjoyability can SIGNIFICANTLY change over time as you gain access to more abilities.

    Would you find them much funner if we all had R6 abilities out of the starting gate instead of having to grind your way up there? I probably would.
    I have R6 abilities. I hate them with a passion. They're not fun.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I have R6 abilities. I hate them with a passion. They're not fun.
    Did you find it fun prior to R6? Did you simply participate because there was nothing else to do to improve your character or gain the gear? Did you play it originally solely because of the Epic?

    You can always spend less points if you find that more enjoyable, the reverse is not true.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    The one difference being that your performance/enjoyability can SIGNIFICANTLY change over time as you gain access to more abilities.

    Would you find them much funner if we all had R6 abilities out of the starting gate instead of having to grind your way up there? I probably would.

    I don't think I would personally. It seems to deviate too much from my preferred playstyle. I am a champion and want to play as such. Unfortunately, enemies completely ignore me and force me to give chase. I don't care for ordering NPCs around, or messing with catapults. I simply want to be a soldier and fight in glorious battle. That's why I picked a champ. Any other instance/raid/skirmish allows me to do this. I thought vanguard was for this role but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I have no aggro and other NPCs burn the mobs incredibly fast. Plus, my champ does this strange thing where he goes in and out of combat further delaying skill use.

  14. #14
    I do not see these as session play. In session play a player is in the skin of another character with a few basic skills that work, and is an integral part of the instance.

    In the Big Battles, a player is in their own skin, but is not a necessity to complete the instance, and seems to have no real impact on what happens. You could just stand there and the battle will go on without you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Did you find it fun prior to R6? Did you simply participate because there was nothing else to do to improve your character or gain the gear? Did you play it originally solely because of the Epic?

    You can always spend less points if you find that more enjoyable, the reverse is not true.
    I did not find them enjoyable because I'm not playing my class. My captain did not finish the book even for the symbol because it was miserable. My minstrel opened them all and worked up to R6 mostly solo, a couple of 12-mans and 1 6-man, in order to get the jewelry. Once I had all the pieces I needed I quit going. I have over 50k medallions and several hundred thousand marks, so getting symbols isn't a problem. They also drop out of raid skirms, which 2 friends and I do without a full raid. Or my kin 5-6 mans T3 skirm raids.

    Less points doesn't change the fact I'm not playing my class. The mechanics in the big battles are specifically what I find irritating and offensive. None of my other classes have any intention of participating in this content.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticNightmare View Post
    It does already seem like a session play. I play a champion to run in screaming bloody murder while provided much deserved massacre to this enemies around me. Trying to do this in BB was rage inducing and frustrating. I was chasing enemies around like an idiot, barely able to get one swing in before they quickly dropped to NPC's. I refuse to play an engineer as it is completely opposite to what my playstyle is. It just seems strange that this very hyped feature feels so restricting. Why revamp the classes so drastically to make them completely insignificant in the expansions biggest feature?
    ^^^^^^^^
    My emphasis.

    Truth and well-said, it seems so poorly thought out. I'm happy for those folks that find BB's fun and engaging, but a huge miss for many of us.
    “And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became myth. And for two and a half thousand years, the ring passed out of all knowledge.”
    ? J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

  17. #17
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    They might as well be session play. With the exception of Helm's Dike I find them generally boring. Oh and the glittering caves which are like some shopping mall designed by a failed and very demented engineer with terrible fashion sense.

    About the only fun thing in the big blunders for me is the siege weapons. I do like playing with those. And I do think the ideas of knocking over ladders, cutting grapple lines, repairing equipment....well it makes sense. And the mobs do, at times, go for specific targets...but one fart from a player and they all fall down. Except the trolls, those guys require a little more effort- so eat a spicy chipolte burrito or something.

    There doesn't seem to be much point in doing them before end cap- unless you just want to try it out or complete the books. The rewards scale to your level.

    But back to the op's point, well they are right, it might as well be session play, which also is overdone and often slow paced.

    I wouldn't expect any large change to the big blunders anytime soon.

    Aside from siege weapons they do have one other slightly redeeming quality...they are more interesting to me than wildermore.
    A cosmos without the Doctor scarcely bears thinking about- The Master

  18. #18
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    Sep 2010
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    BB Rank 6 Guardian here. Big Battles are the biggest complaint I have with Helms Deep. I am pessimistic about all content releases this year because I'm fairly certain they will centre around this poorly developed, shoddy mechanic. Just adding my voice in the hopes someone that can influence game direction should ever read it.

 

 

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