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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    I am ranked 5-6 now with all my 9 classes (some of them are R6, some still R5 but they will be R6 as well within a day or two) and every single one of my BB's has been done solo.
    I'm curious how you were able to solo your captain to R5 or R6 completely solo. Mine can't even win a side quest without points.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I'm curious how you were able to solo your captain to R5 or R6 completely solo. Mine can't even win a side quest without points.
    My cappy is currently still R5, 107 points at the moment. With him I did Glittering Caves 3-man when I was still R4 (twice, so I got both west and east side quests, and then Civilian Defense as final quest, as Preparing The Charge is a bit too much in 3-man for my captain), so 21 points of those 107 are from soloing GC 3-man. Now, as I am R5 and get access to damage upgrade, I can squeeze the remaining 13 points out of those solo quests where it is possible.

    For me the class don't do much difference really. I rely mostly on barricade/ballista -combo, and now at R5 in GC 3-man I don't use my class skills much at all. That's also why Hornburg is maybe the most difficult for my captain because there is no portable siege equipment available (haven't got platinum yet with my captain there from any side quests). Anyway, my captain is red-specced, and using archer herald, naturally on aggressive mode. Placing improved standard of war helps a bit with it's AoE when needed.

    But when I look at my papers (where I have ticked highest medal I have got from each side quest for each of my characters), I don't really see difference between my captain and my other characters: they perform pretty much the same: if I am able to get platinum on side quest, I can do that with all classes, and if I cannot get higher than gold, that's also true with all my classes Although for example I really feel my burglar is so much worse than my minstrel, the points tell me otherwise.

    Anyway, because I can solo 20+ points from GC 3-man, that means I can pick and choose those 20 points from solo main/side quests that I think I cannot get without banging my head against brick wall too many times - and skip them. And still get 120 points needed for R6 Naturally the last points are hardest to get.

  3. #28
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    I too have been struggling with the HD Battles solo (I finally got to R6 after joining some 6-man Dikes), and part of that challenge has been because my main character is a Burglar. The general sense seems to be that Burglars are at a particular disadvantage in these Battles, and that there is an advantage for classes that can do ranged AOE, especially.

    However, another complaint that I've made, and I've seen others make, is that these Epic Battles in general -- because of the focus on the 3 roles of Engineer, Officer, and Vanguard -- have mostly rendered our own classes irrelevant, despite the fact that we have been working on those classes for 95 levels.

    So, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in these general observations: a) Some classes are worse off than others in the Battles; b) Battles have made our own classes irrelevant.

    How can both be true?

    Note that this isn't directed at anyone -- I myself have expressed both of these statements!

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    My cappy is currently still R5, 107 points at the moment. With him I did Glittering Caves 3-man when I was still R4 (twice, so I got both west and east side quests, and then Civilian Defense as final quest, as Preparing The Charge is a bit too much in 3-man for my captain), so 21 points of those 107 are from soloing GC 3-man. Now, as I am R5 and get access to damage upgrade, I can squeeze the remaining 13 points out of those solo quests where it is possible.

    For me the class don't do much difference really. I rely mostly on barricade/ballista -combo, and now at R5 in GC 3-man I don't use my class skills much at all. That's also why Hornburg is maybe the most difficult for my captain because there is no portable siege equipment available (haven't got platinum yet with my captain there from any side quests). Anyway, my captain is red-specced, and using archer herald, naturally on aggressive mode. Placing improved standard of war helps a bit with it's AoE when needed.
    I understand you rely on barricades/ballistas, but how did you do it on your R5 captain when you had zero points towards progression? You said you did it completely solo, and since that's how my captain went in and failed all side quests completely I'm trying to understand how you ranked it up? How did you medal on saving the horses, for example? You have no ability to place ballistas or barricades without rank - what method did you use? The comments above are when you're R4 and R5 so you're able to use a lot of the extras - how did you get from 0 to 4?

    As to how our own classes can be more useful - anything with range and/or AOE can help kill swarming mobs for side quests. My minstrel is useless as a "minstrel" but as an AOE/range dps class she can kill things. I'm not a healer though, I'm fill-in-generic-dpser-turned-Engineer. Saving the Horses is an example - I don't have to place barricades and ballistas on the minstrel solo - I just beat the hell out of mobs and they're dead before they reach the horses. Same with Powder at the Gate - I dps the sappers down before they ever even approach the gate, and leave the rest to the NPCs. It's a dps race at that time, one my cappy sadly has no chance at being mostly melee/single target/lower dps than my minstrel.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  5. #30
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    To the OP in particular:
    I understand banging your head and cursing a blue streak! But it's important for us to remember that BB are the new "end game" which means it is not intended to be finished in the first try, or even quickly. Not that LI's are anybody's favourite part of the game, but think of it a bit like the LI system. We don't expect to get a 1A LI with all the right legacies when we get our starter LI's after the Walls of Moria instance. We get a basic, beginner LI that we will soon discard for something better. Slowly we grind away at our LI's, finding better ones and earning up the resources we need to craft 2A or even 1A ones when we hit cap.

    In the tutorial for BB they do say that doing side quests makes the whole thing harder. This tells me that at the beginning, we should just focus on getting through the main battle in 1 piece. If we get bronze or even silver, awesome! Then, once we've been through all of the main battles enough to get silver in each, we should have enough points to put into engineer to start getting gold on the main quest and bronze or even silver on the side quests. Rinse and repeat. We keep running them, like new LI's, until we have ground them out enough to get the points we want in the specialization we want. That allows us to then start trying to go for platinum on side quests, etc. It's a grind because it is end game. The intent is to give capped players something to do until new content comes out.

    In general:
    I've only done BB on my captain, who finds it hard to do much other than fire ballistae or catapults, set barricades and fix banners. However, doing those three things has been enough to get a fair number of gold and platinums on solo battles.

    I did try my lvl 65 champ one time to see if the AoE dps would make vanguard plausible. No dice! Soon I will start my RK on BB too. I have a feeling it's going to feel like my captain. I would echo the sentiment that after all their work to put in the trait point system in order to "add variety and distinction," BB feel the same no matter what class you are. Hopefully some ranged DPS on my RK will make it feel like I'm doing something useful. (Anybody else wish threat worked in BB?)
    Officer in Windfola's House of Blackrock: a great, casual kin of people who play a lot. [url]http://hobonline.org[/url]

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    It depends on your class. My captain would not be able to even get medals on most of the side quests if she went in solo (failed all she encountered on first 2 big battles including Helms Dike). She has no range, she has no high dps, she has no AOE, and chasing mobs as they run by you doesn't do enough to accomplish anything. My minstrel got silvers, golds, and quickly platinum solo from the beginning. Same player, different class - different results.
    Ranged classes do have it easier solo at low ranks the way BB is designed. I dont play captain and have no suggestion other than running duo. I rarely see any requests for duo either. After seeing frustration threads like this one , I have started announcing in glff when I am running one solo (once a day) so anyone who desires can tag along.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I understand you rely on barricades/ballistas, but how did you do it on your R5 captain when you had zero points towards progression? You said you did it completely solo, and since that's how my captain went in and failed all side quests completely I'm trying to understand how you ranked it up? How did you medal on saving the horses, for example? You have no ability to place ballistas or barricades without rank - what method did you use? The comments above are when you're R4 and R5 so you're able to use a lot of the extras - how did you get from 0 to 4?
    Maybe this will help you:

    For low rank captains it helps a lot to switch to the yellow tanking spec. When you force taunt the mobs - even for 5 seconds only - they forget about attacking the original targets and this gives enough time to friendly NPCs to kill the enemies. You have the 6 target Threatening Shout available every 15 seconds and it is a lot, you can agro every arriving wave. And Routing Cry can stun the mobs after the agro effect expires! Meanwhile do not forget to heal all the objects (soldiers, horses, banners) by simply spamming WoC on them.

    Already at Rank 1 you can have traps in from the Engineering role. Use them near the spawn locations of the mobs when possible. For example, near the windows during the Deeping Wall side quests. With tanking abilities you can also force the same mobs to pass through the Bear Trap two times.

    At later ranks I prefer to use red spec just because it makes quests faster, but in some cases - and the quest with protecting the horses is exactly such case - I still switch to the yellow spec.
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  8. #33
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    I don't enjoy BBs and I especially don't like it on a melee single target support class, but because I am stubborn I do try and overcome issues to see if it can be done. I appreciate the suggestions but I was hoping to hear from Gilean-EU specifically as they ranked their captain up to R5 doing it solo and I just don't see how it's possible other than possibly as you suggest force-taunting everything. And yes, this is a serious question because I have a hard time imagining doing all the side quests necessary in the different BBs to get a captain to R5 solo so I'm very interested in the answers.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by scithen View Post
    So please, someone tell me just how I'm supposed to do these battles. If it involves struggling
    my way through it until I scrape together enough points to actually get the necessary ranks,
    then screw it.
    The battles are intended to be a repeatable challenge, in which early experience provides rewards that enable improved performance on subsequent runs.

    It's fine if that doesn't appeal to you -- you can then profitably spend your time on more enjoyable aspects of the game. If you want to skip them but still finish the epics, then you'd only need to run them once, when called for in the storyline. (As long as you wait out the battle until its end, you'll get epic quest credit, if little else.)

    They *could* make it so that any competent player can easily beat all battle challenges on their first try, but then it wouldn't be very compelling as a repeatable challenge.

    For myself -- up to a point, I enjoy repeatables. When I fail, I think through what happened and try something different next time. When that thought process yields improved results, that's a nice feeling. (When it doesn't .... well, back to the drawing board.)

    As you've already noticed, even when starting with 0 points, you can end up with a handful to put into new skills. If you make any effort at all on the 5 battles in the Epic questline, you should finish them with maybe 20 points. More importantly, you'll have experience with each battle, allowing you to avoid some rookie mistakes. So you'll get further on the next run, resulting in more points to spend. A virtuous cycle.

    That process appeals to many players, but not all, so feel free to skip it. But if you do decide to go further with it, I think most people would say the Engineer line is a good one to level up while you're learning some strategies.
    Theofrid, Wyndriel, Wendros, Glydia, Halfrid, Fridward, Friddis, Fridli, Gondaglir

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I understand you rely on barricades/ballistas, but how did you do it on your R5 captain when you had zero points towards progression? You said you did it completely solo, and since that's how my captain went in and failed all side quests completely I'm trying to understand how you ranked it up? How did you medal on saving the horses, for example? You have no ability to place ballistas or barricades without rank - what method did you use? The comments above are when you're R4 and R5 so you're able to use a lot of the extras - how did you get from 0 to 4?
    Oh, I most certainly did not get platinum medal from that quest when I was low-ranked captain. My strategy was doing as many different side quests as possible, because even low-ranked, when I tried to DPS as much as cappy can (which is not much ), I was able to get bronze or even silver from most side quests. Of course I failed something like Powder at the Gate at that point, but then again I could get gold medal from some other side quests almost by just being there. I recall Statue of Helm Hammerhand was one of those quests. So, it didn't take much at all until I had 20 points and then I was able to place traps - which again helped with some quests so that if I was able to get bronze last time, now I could get silver. Or if I failed before, now I got bronze. That's +1 promotion point. At some point I realized with captain I could actually heal NPC's, banners, horses etc (and healing banners for example was faster than repairing them!), and again I found I got +1 or +2 points from some side quests. Eventually I had 60 points, which is when things start to get A LOT easier because you can use portable ballista/catapult. But still, getting points gets slower, but eventually I reached R5 and got that damage upgrade for ballistas and barricades. R6 is not as crucial as R5 (you don't really need extra distance for your ballistas that you get with R6), although faster cranking/repairing etc is always nice.

    For what it's worth, my cappy has been red-specced all the time, but I don't see why Lunasa's suggestion wouldn't work as well.

    Anyway, my main point is that if you are low ranked and think some side quest is impossible for you now - just skip it and try another side quest to get those promotion points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    As to how our own classes can be more useful - anything with range and/or AOE can help kill swarming mobs for side quests. My minstrel is useless as a "minstrel" but as an AOE/range dps class she can kill things. I'm not a healer though, I'm fill-in-generic-dpser-turned-Engineer. Saving the Horses is an example - I don't have to place barricades and ballistas on the minstrel solo - I just beat the hell out of mobs and they're dead before they reach the horses. Same with Powder at the Gate - I dps the sappers down before they ever even approach the gate, and leave the rest to the NPCs. It's a dps race at that time, one my cappy sadly has no chance at being mostly melee/single target/lower dps than my minstrel.
    Quote Originally Posted by DanteIL
    So, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in these general observations: a) Some classes are worse off than others in the Battles; b) Battles have made our own classes irrelevant.

    How can both be true?

    Note that this isn't directed at anyone -- I myself have expressed both of these statements!
    I paired these two quotes because my comment is about those points.
    Point A is true basically when you are ranked 0-2. That's when you cannot use much else than the skills of your characters. That's when ranged and/or AoE classes shine. Red minstrel, being ranged AoE, is clearly better here than, say, burglar with zero ranged DPS skills and one lousy AoE skill with long cooldown (Knives Out). Captain is not much better but herald and healing skills help here quite a bit.
    Point B is not entirely true but close to it when you are ranked 3-6, especially when you are rank 5-6. That's when you win these Big Battles by using siege equipment, and giving orders to NPC commanders etc.

  11. #36
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    I think something else to take into account is the BBs were made much more difficult after 12.3 "balancing". There tend to be more mobs and they do more damage, so what was possible in the beginning may not be as easy now. There is far less ability to stand around and still succeed as the balancing that was done was specifically to prevent this.

    My opinion still stands that BBs aren't balanced for all classes alike, yet your specific class "roles" aren't taken into account either. My minstrel can go in as ranged AOE dps and do well, but there is no role for her healing as mobs can out-dps her heals on NPCs and banners. As a note, minstrel heals do not function quite as well as cappy heals (cappy hots work, minstrel hots don't in my experience) and minstrel bubble doesn't cover NPCs although the RK bubble does. I also note that standing and hitting an NPC or banner with Bolster Courage - which should hit for 6-15k traited blue or 2-5k traited red - might not do much healing at all, and I frequently have to use it several times for it to even register on the NPC/banner. I tried my cappy again in HD solo, and being just under R1 (I've only done 3 BB total) it was still not possible to grab all mobs from the side quests traited yellow line and not possible to out-heal the mobs dps on horses. Since I dislike BBs in general as mechanics I find irritating at best I'll just call it a failed experiment on my part for the cappy and an unnecessary pain for the minstrel (R6, has all her bling).

    What's also amusing is I found the larger BBs to be better balanced than the solo versions. After 12.3 the solo versions were made proportionately harder than the larger group versions it seems, which if anything punishes the lower level/newer solo player starting into BBs.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    What's also amusing is I found the larger BBs to be better balanced than the solo versions. After 12.3 the solo versions were made proportionately harder than the larger group versions it seems, which if anything punishes the lower level/newer solo player starting into BBs.

    There are NO solo BB. There are duo BB that can be played (or better, attempted) as solo player. Turbine announced it the other way around, but that is simply not true.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I think something else to take into account is the BBs were made much more difficult after 12.3 "balancing". There tend to be more mobs and they do more damage, so what was possible in the beginning may not be as easy now. There is far less ability to stand around and still succeed as the balancing that was done was specifically to prevent this.

    My opinion still stands that BBs aren't balanced for all classes alike, yet your specific class "roles" aren't taken into account either. My minstrel can go in as ranged AOE dps and do well, but there is no role for her healing as mobs can out-dps her heals on NPCs and banners. As a note, minstrel heals do not function quite as well as cappy heals (cappy hots work, minstrel hots don't in my experience) and minstrel bubble doesn't cover NPCs although the RK bubble does. I also note that standing and hitting an NPC or banner with Bolster Courage - which should hit for 6-15k traited blue or 2-5k traited red - might not do much healing at all, and I frequently have to use it several times for it to even register on the NPC/banner. I tried my cappy again in HD solo, and being just under R1 (I've only done 3 BB total) it was still not possible to grab all mobs from the side quests traited yellow line and not possible to out-heal the mobs dps on horses. Since I dislike BBs in general as mechanics I find irritating at best I'll just call it a failed experiment on my part for the cappy and an unnecessary pain for the minstrel (R6, has all her bling).

    What's also amusing is I found the larger BBs to be better balanced than the solo versions. After 12.3 the solo versions were made proportionately harder than the larger group versions it seems, which if anything punishes the lower level/newer solo player starting into BBs.
    You have a point there. I remember reading 12.2 patch notes in disbelief: they said solo battles were now harder! If I recall, people has (in general) been saying that group instances should be harder, solo content is quite okay, so I don't understand why they had to make solo Battles harder. And 12.3 did not bring no updates to BB's (except a typo fix ), but mobs in general got a bit stronger, so I guess it impacted BB's as well. And as I have been saying, 3-man Glittering Caves is in general easier than solo version: trolls have half the health in 3-man version than what they have in solo version, and another easier quest is Spider Assault: Don't know why, but in 3-man version crystals stay clear of webbing, but in solo version they always get webbed: 25% to 75%. And you have plenty of time to kill Skimgrit AND run back to dismantle your barricade, check the health of your soldiers etc before you get message saying you should fall back to the centre. But in solo version I often fail the whole quest because just when I am about to attack Skimgrit (or I am fighting it) I get the message saying "You were forced to fall back to the centre" and that means quest failed.

    The problem in general is that there are many side quests where you feel overwhelmed by incoming mobs before you are ranked high enough to use ballista+barricade -combo. And because you have to play those battles quite a many times before you have that 60 points, it may be a bit too much for many players: they rather skip the whole Epic Battle system apart from doing them for Epic Book quests once.

    I have said this before and my mind has not changed: I think it would be better if class skills worked normally in Epic Battles: I mean threat/taunts that would not wear off after 5 seconds or so, and CC should work normally as well. That way lower ranked players could get those medals (and promotion points) easier and that would also open up several new strategies for players.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    It depends on your class. My captain would not be able to even get medals on most of the side quests if she went in solo (failed all she encountered on first 2 big battles including Helms Dike). She has no range, she has no high dps, she has no AOE, and chasing mobs as they run by you doesn't do enough to accomplish anything. My minstrel got silvers, golds, and quickly platinum solo from the beginning. Same player, different class - different results.
    I think your Cappy could certainly, even at rank 0, get some solo medals (not plat, but medals of SOME sort, which come with promotion points) on side quests. In HD: flames at the gate is absolutely class-independent and gold-able from R0; protecting the watchtowers and protecting helm's statue depend more on putting barricades down effectively than on class (even at rank 0, you get two; not enough to do ALL side quests, but enough to do one well each run); and in stone obstructions, it's mostly the ability to run back and forth between archers while also fighting off mobs that get past the soldiers. All of these are soloable for a bronze or silver or (flames at the gate) gold medal, the very first time any class tries them. I absolutely agree that melee classes will have a harder time getting anything out of protecting horses and sappers at the gate than ranged/tactical. And that's HD; the other instances are the same; some quests you can medal (bronze or silver) early on, others you can't at first. But it's about getting from R0 to R1, then R2 and R3, and then class really starts to become irrelevant.

    Yes, ranged and tactical have higher DPS against mobs that won't stand still. But melee classes have force taunts, which--surrounded by NPCs that will do the DPS for you--can be even more powerful. My guard and warden depended on force taunts to succeed early on (which is what makes Sappers in HD so much of a pain for melee classes; immune to taunts).

    I did notice this as I was taking 7 different toons through the BBs: it's easy to forget how many iterations it took on your first couple of toons before you started getting up in rank. When I was on my second and third toon, having gotten one or two before that to high BB rank, I instinctively expected things to flow faster, to see more golds and plats early on. And experience (player experience) does count for something in the BBs, just not nearly as much as toon experience (rank). By my 4th toon on, I'd figured out not to expect too much success at first, that it would be a slog (again) getting up in rank. Maybe that's part of what has you frustrated on your Cappy, because you already went through it all on your Mini.

    Bottom line: any class can progress in these BB instances until engineer & officer rank start making class considerations all but trivial. And at that point, the plats start flowing.
    Last edited by Angadan; Feb 26 2014 at 07:26 AM.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliahnus View Post
    There are NO solo BB. There are duo BB that can be played (or better, attempted) as solo player. Turbine announced it the other way around, but that is simply not true.
    I've got over 80 skill points from solo BB, with gold or platinum badges for nearly all of the side quests. So, from personal experience I'd say perhaps your assessment is incorrect.
    Theofrid, Wyndriel, Wendros, Glydia, Halfrid, Fridward, Friddis, Fridli, Gondaglir

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I don't enjoy BBs and I especially don't like it on a melee single target support class, but because I am stubborn I do try and overcome issues to see if it can be done. I appreciate the suggestions but I was hoping to hear from Gilean-EU specifically as they ranked their captain up to R5 doing it solo and I just don't see how it's possible other than possibly as you suggest force-taunting everything. And yes, this is a serious question because I have a hard time imagining doing all the side quests necessary in the different BBs to get a captain to R5 solo so I'm very interested in the answers.
    In such case, sorry for jumping into a conversation you two had.

    My suggestions for a yellow-traited captain were given exactly for soloing the battles as I started doing them solo both on my captain and on my hunter, and it was much easier for a captain. Even though I am a group player in general, I always disliked small-group instances and avoided all 3mans. Duos are just not appealing to me and this is why I was obtaining my first 4-5 ranks solo. I admit though that I had a lot of extra knowledge about battles from the beta experience. Force-taunting is mostly useful till you get rank3, at which point you should have promotions to make two builds: r3 officer (for "sapper priority" and "2h stance") and r3 engineer (traps or catapults - depending on the battle). As I also mentioned, traps become available already at r1 and a bear trap is doing a significant amount of damage compared to captain's attacks. There are many threads on this forum with advices specific for every battle and nearly every rank. There is a topic on the captain's forum with captain-specific advices for soloing deeping wall (summarised by Furtim).

    My husband had no problems getting r5 on a captain - class he did not even play until HD - following my advices, and he never grouped for battles even with me. It is possible that now, after 12.3, battles are harder than before. But quite a few earlier not available quests were fixed and the total amount of points a solo player can get was increased significantly since release.

    Good luck in achieving your goals. I will not interfere anymore.
    Ishtarien - Captain
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    In such case, sorry for jumping into a conversation you two had.

    My suggestions for a yellow-traited captain were given exactly for soloing the battles as I started doing them solo both on my captain and on my hunter, and it was much easier for a captain. Even though I am a group player in general, I always disliked small-group instances and avoided all 3mans. Duos are just not appealing to me and this is why I was obtaining my first 4-5 ranks solo. I admit though that I had a lot of extra knowledge about battles from the beta experience. Force-taunting is mostly useful till you get rank3, at which point you should have promotions to make two builds: r3 officer (for "sapper priority" and "2h stance") and r3 engineer (traps or catapults - depending on the battle). As I also mentioned, traps become available already at r1 and a bear trap is doing a significant amount of damage compared to captain's attacks. There are many threads on this forum with advices specific for every battle and nearly every rank. There is a topic on the captain's forum with captain-specific advices for soloing deeping wall (summarised by Furtim).

    My husband had no problems getting r5 on a captain - class he did not even play until HD - following my advices, and he never grouped for battles even with me. It is possible that now, after 12.3, battles are harder than before. But quite a few earlier not available quests were fixed and the total amount of points a solo player can get was increased significantly since release.

    Good luck in achieving your goals. I will not interfere anymore.
    No apologies needed except perhaps from me, it was not interference at all. I appreciate your comments but had missed the fact you ranked your captain solo and that was where I was focusing. I'm also a group player by nature and dislike duo BBs so solo'd my minstrel. At this point I believe your suggestion of force taunting is the only way to really achieve anything on the side quests on the captain.

    I have experience from the beta in BBs as well, but focused on the minstrel there since its my main. I just find that melee single target classes seem to have a huge disadvantage in BBs and especially after the "balancing" doing them solo is ridiculous. They're still easy on the minstrel, but she doesn't need anything in there except to grind for a gold necklace which I won't do. Thank you for the suggestions and I'm sure they'll be helpful for others as well as myself if I choose to take her back in.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angadan View Post
    I think your Cappy could certainly, even at rank 0, get some solo medals (not plat, but medals of SOME sort, which come with promotion points) on side quests. In HD: flames at the gate is absolutely class-independent and gold-able from R0;
    This got my interest for sure. For me, Flames At The Gate is pretty black & white: before I got Engineer rank 3, I basically failed this every time, or got bronze if I was lucky. Not sure if I got silver but I doubt it, most definetely I never got gold medal. But after I reached rank 3, I am getting platinum from this every time (just catapulting the war machine below until it goes down).

    I am interested to know how could you get gold from this at Rank 0, solo? You need to run between three archers and supplying them with arrows (because that's the only way to damage the war machine at that point), and before it goes down, it damages the gate quite a lot. You need to extinguish/repair the door, and that will take forever at rank 0, so usually the war machine burns the gate down before archers can burn it down (and you need to protect them from enemy attacks as well).

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    This got my interest for sure. For me, Flames At The Gate is pretty black & white: before I got Engineer rank 3, I basically failed this every time, or got bronze if I was lucky. Not sure if I got silver but I doubt it, most definetely I never got gold medal. But after I reached rank 3, I am getting platinum from this every time (just catapulting the war machine below until it goes down).

    I am interested to know how could you get gold from this at Rank 0, solo? You need to run between three archers and supplying them with arrows (because that's the only way to damage the war machine at that point), and before it goes down, it damages the gate quite a lot. You need to extinguish/repair the door, and that will take forever at rank 0, so usually the war machine burns the gate down before archers can burn it down (and you need to protect them from enemy attacks as well).
    You actually only need to extinguish and repair the gate, and when you get a minute, pop up and feed arrows to one archer (you don't have time for all 3). It takes a long time, and you can't get plat (because the gate WILL be 10% damaged before you can begin repairing it), but you can do it. Just make the gate's repair job #1, and add archer support as possible. See how that works for you.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angadan View Post
    In HD: flames at the gate is absolutely class-independent and gold-able from R0; protecting the watchtowers and protecting helm's statue depend more on putting barricades down effectively than on class (even at rank 0, you get two; not enough to do ALL side quests, but enough to do one well each run)
    Nope. Rank zero cannot place barricades, that's a rank 1 ability. Helm's statue is an easy gold for most/all classes though, since the trolls actually can be cc'ed, and tank-ish classes can force taunt them. One assumes the ranged classes can just burn them down fast enough, but I've retired my minstrel and never did much with hunter/lm/rk.

    Watchtowers was bugged the one time it came up back when my champ did it in November - I protected the tower, it took a very small amount of damage (was on track for a high silver or low gold), and the quest failed for no apparent reason.

    Disagree on flames at the gate - my experience is that it's an automatic failure at low rank. If you're down at gate level doing repairs, the archers will die. And most likely the orcs jumping down to beat on you will combine with the heat from the gate itself (at least I assume that's what was putting out all the damage I was taking) to force you away from the gate or die. And this was on my warden - a notably non-squishy, good self-healing character even by level 95 standards.

    The one where the Dunlendings block the stream is another auto-fail at low rank. You run back and forth, archers fire, the western archer dies, the central archer starts getting beat down, the damming counter completes and you fail. Again, warden, blue line, force-taunting all I could.

    Yes, ranged and tactical have higher DPS against mobs that won't stand still. But melee classes have force taunts, which--surrounded by NPCs that will do the DPS for you--can be even more powerful. My guard and warden depended on force taunts to succeed early on (which is what makes Sappers in HD so much of a pain for melee classes; immune to taunts).
    Burglars are a melee class with no force taunt. And most targets one would want to cc cannot be cc'ed. Agreed that DC is the way for a warden to proceed, but the taunt duration is painfully short, so it often doesn't accomplish much.

    From what I've read in the patch notes, the other easy gold/plat for a r0 character, Civilian Defense in GC, has now been turned into another auto-fail quest. I'm sure that will be lovely once I get my warden that far... On the plus side, supposedly it's possible to not fail Searching the Debris in Deeping Coomb now. Like Beaniemooch, I despise BBs and I only do them for the epic. The 2nd age symbol, delving scroll, and zeal point are too good to pass up, much as I'd like to. Haven't done them since my burg and champ hit 95 back in November, but I've finally gotten my warden back to cap so now he has to do them... Will be interesting to see how he compares with my burg and champ, IIRC the latter two got 18 and 28 points respectively from their runs through the epic.

    Not looking forward to my captain either - I designed his yellow spec for support and off-tanking, so unless I rebuild it specifically for BBs (unlikely) he'll have just the single target force taunt. But the point is just to get through the stupid things, so ultimately it doesn't really matter.

    This whole progression thing is nice in theory, but to work the battles actually have to be at least somewhat enjoyable. As it is, you spend half an hour mostly being completely bored. Click on siege engine, or click on officer, or pick your nose - to the extent one can see any results from any of those activities, it tends to be detrimental, when excessive siege engine use causes the main battle to end before the last side quest ends (or even begins, sometimes). In the middle of all that we get a few side quests, which for low ranked characters tend to be frustrating and more often than not completely pointless as well. /whippitydo, well done Turbine!

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    From what I've read in the patch notes, the other easy gold/plat for a r0 character, Civilian Defense in GC, has now been turned into another auto-fail quest.
    I guess I missed those times when this was easy gold/plat for r0 character (you are talking about solo instance, right?), because this has always been a nightmare for me (maybe I didn't do this quest just after HD was released). But yes, nowadays it's even worse, as FOUR trolls (elites with 72k morale or so) come basically all at once, so they pound the barricades down in few seconds. 3-man version is sooo much easier to solo (signature trolls have about 35k morale).

    So, just yesterday I did this quest, both 3-man version (solo) and solo version with my R5 captain.

    3-man version: I used ONE barricade and ONE ballista (damage & speed upgrades ofc). Result: easy platinum.

    Solo version: I used FOUR barricades and TWO ballistas, with damage & speed upgrades. And caltrop trap, and tripwire trap. Because those four trolls come in such a way that you can't hit all of them with your ballistas, two trolls still managed to get through and did enough damage that I got only silver medal.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    Nope. Rank zero cannot place barricades, that's a rank 1 ability. Helm's statue is an easy gold for most/all classes though, since the trolls actually can be cc'ed, and tank-ish classes can force taunt them. One assumes the ranged classes can just burn them down fast enough, but I've retired my minstrel and never did much with hunter/lm/rk.

    Watchtowers was bugged the one time it came up back when my champ did it in November - I protected the tower, it took a very small amount of damage (was on track for a high silver or low gold), and the quest failed for no apparent reason.

    Disagree on flames at the gate - my experience is that it's an automatic failure at low rank. If you're down at gate level doing repairs, the archers will die. And most likely the orcs jumping down to beat on you will combine with the heat from the gate itself (at least I assume that's what was putting out all the damage I was taking) to force you away from the gate or die. And this was on my warden - a notably non-squishy, good self-healing character even by level 95 standards.

    The one where the Dunlendings block the stream is another auto-fail at low rank. You run back and forth, archers fire, the western archer dies, the central archer starts getting beat down, the damming counter completes and you fail. Again, warden, blue line, force-taunting all I could.
    ---------------------------------------------snipped=----------------------------------------------------------------
    !
    Exactly my experience on my minstrel. At rank zero an engineer can build and fire the small ballista on the dike near Gamling and that's it. If you use it too much and actually kill enough of the mobs attacking the central path it seems to auto fail the quests. The gate damage is very high on squishies and not repairable at rank 0. And if you run out to meet the orcs to avoid gate damage and prevent them for getting close to the gate it's insta death. Haven't succeeded with the Dunlending's one-even in duo with a ranked engineer. ( May be easier now I can move barricades. If I can ever find them, and I'm not doing another side quest when it appears.) Failed this one every time -solo or duo. The trolls attacking the statue are killable on a level 20 fire RK, though. That was the one gold medal i got from side quests, soloing first few times. (i ended up ignoring the other side quests completely.)

    I got a gold on the main quest on the dike on an early attempt last november and haven't a clue how. The next time i did exactly the same - i thought-and got nothing on the main quest.

    The latter is the most frustrating part-what did i do wrong or right is a question the quest result information doesn't provide. For example, Which commander/banner got damaged-was it one on the other side and I just didn''t see the attack? How can i learn with no feedback?

    Friend took me through them all in the last week-he has rank 5 or 6 engineer and at the end of those runs I had enough points to get some traps -that made a huge difference. I'd suggest to soloers-don't try them solo! Get a friend with a few points (even rank 3 makes a difference) to show you the ropes, (literally and metaphorically) lay traps, shift barricades, etc while you just run around trying to find/see where stuff is. They are confusing, there is no usable map, and the tutorial doesn't actually explain about traps, using barricades,when you can start building catapults or any of the officer commands available above rank 0.

    Some observations after persisting for several weeks:
    Random bugs seem to make the experience vary from player to player and class to class: Couldn't interact with archers or arrows at all last time i got that side quest. They both glowed but wouldn't let me either pick up the arrows or instruct the archers (tried both.) Often selecting ladders on the protecting the wall BB auto reselect to cutting grappling hooks. Even with the ladder still showing you have it targeted. Banners can only be healed by CoS on my minstrel and then it takes a few goes for the heal to work. (Still quicker than repairing them though.) Minstrels can't use bubbles or any aoe heals on npcs/banners etc-although other classes can.

    Finally, they are not designed for those of us without huge HD screens. If you play on small screen or have to use low graphics due to lag, many visual cues are invisible: eg Trapdoor in the gatehouse floor was virtually invisible. As is the rope that takes you up again. I ran into the upper gatehouse several times looking for my fellow or a door or stairs or something, the first time we got the side quest to defend the lower gatehouse from the orcs. I could see his green fellow dot but not the trapdoor at all. Even when in the centre of the room looking hard. I only know where they are now because my mate jumped up and down on it and I saw him use the rope back up.

    I don't like them any more than i did 3 months ago -I actually found the epic precursor quests around HD ( finding Gimli in the caves, etc.) much morre exciting-the mobs aggroed from range, cane in 2 s and 3s and attacked me sufficiently for me to have to fight back. More of those and I'd have been happier.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilean-EU View Post
    I guess I missed those times when this was easy gold/plat for r0 character (you are talking about solo instance, right?), because this has always been a nightmare for me (maybe I didn't do this quest just after HD was released). But yes, nowadays it's even worse, as FOUR trolls (elites with 72k morale or so) come basically all at once, so they pound the barricades down in few seconds. 3-man version is sooo much easier to solo (signature trolls have about 35k morale).
    Yes, solo instance, U12.0 - I haven't done GC in a *long* time. And the prospect of pushing my warden through the last four is not inspiring me to log in much these days, as expected.

    Back when my burglar and champ did their epics, Civilian defense had the trolls coming out in groups of 1-1-2, with assorted irrelevant trash mobs in each group. Spacing between groups was plenty long enough that they didn't overlap. For burglar, mez troll (another of the rare mez-worthy mobs that isn't cc-immune!), soldiers kill trash, burglar and soldiers burn troll down before it damages a barricade. Last group, mez one troll, kill the other; I may have worked in a provoke mez or dust-twist stun to help delay it, I don't recall. Champ - shing shing, plus the force taunt on one troll per group. Both had a few (10-ish?) points and used Officer as best they could here, so the soldiers had at least one commander buff active for each wave for whatever good that did.

    IIRC that was the only quest where both of them got platinum. At least I think my champ "only" got gold on Helm's Statue - don't recall what his other two plats were though.

    Could well be that they buffed Civilian Defense in 12.1 or 12.2 as well and I didn't notice it in the patch notes or just forgot reading about it. It almost sounds like they've somehow switched the solo and 3-man versions of that quest between the two versions of the instance; I may /bug it when I get that far on my warden.

    Quote Originally Posted by yvandriel
    I got a gold on the main quest on the dike on an early attempt last november and haven't a clue how. The next time i did exactly the same - i thought-and got nothing on the main quest.
    I believe my warden's bronze on the HD main quest is a personal best for a first run, pretty sure the other two got iron. Champ did suck it up and do a second HD because he had three platinums (18/20 jewelry points) from his run through the epics, so it was arguably worth it to do just one more and see if any useful jewelry dropped (not really, tanky earring for a dps class, yay). Quite a difference between r0 and r1: iron + fail/gold/fail vs. gold + gold/plat/silver, I think it was.

    The advice to do them as duos doesn't necessarily apply. Counter-argument #1: most servers are as dead as they've ever been these days - who exactly is one to group with? Even Brandywine is pretty quiet these days. And my warden and captain are still on Arkenstone for now - a server that I gave up on almost exactly two years ago, and it's only gotten worse since then. Counter-argument #2: if one can actually find people to group with, why in the world would you waste time doing BBs instead of a real instance that's actually fun?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Howell View Post
    Could well be that they buffed Civilian Defense in 12.1 or 12.2 as well and I didn't notice it in the patch notes or just forgot reading about it. It almost sounds like they've somehow switched the solo and 3-man versions of that quest between the two versions of the instance; I may /bug it when I get that far on my warden.
    It's not only Civilian Defence, it's the trolls in general (at least in Glittering Caves). In solo version all trolls are elites, and in 3-man version all trolls are signatures. Because of this, it makes a huge difference in outcome of side-quests because trolls hit like a truck and barricades/whatever are usually very squishy, and 1-2 hits are enough to lose platinum medal. For example there's 3-4 signature trolls in 3-man Cave-In quest, but only one elite troll in solo version. Still that solo version is harder to solo than 3-man because of that extra ~36000 morale you have to burn through, while 2 ballista hits kills the signature trolls right away.

    Still, I am happy about that soloable 3-man version of GC: without that one, I couldn't reach R6 solo (6 classes achieved that so far, 3 to go ) ...

  25. #50
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    Lmao, you were screaming and yelling at a game?
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    The mind twists and bends to shake the horrors of life
    The mind, keeping it's sanity, bends so far that it snaps in two.

 

 
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