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  1. #1

    Please Return Aggression!

    I'm unsure about other warden tanks, but the removal of our Aggression gambit has left me with a broken heart. It was a truly great gambit and one of my favorites next to EoB and DoW. From what I understand, the other tank classes have multiple force-taunt/aggro-catch-up skills. Wardens currently only have one force-taunt skill, and it's not even a gambit. I don't know about other warden players, but the gambit system is one of my favorite things about the class!
    Now, as Feleg has kindly pointed out, Aggression was not a force-taunt, but an aggro-transfer. I stand corrected. However, I must emphasize that while Aggression was not a force-taunt, it was a mighty good threat transfer. Since threat transfers don't seem possible anymore given the new dps/heal-based threat system, perhaps Aggression could be resurrected as a force-taunt/aggro-catch-up gambit. I emphasize "gambit" because I don't see the fun in getting aggro at the single hit of a button. I'm sure that many other wardens also share this view. Spamming DC is just not fun.

    Now, I can understand why Aggression was removed. From what I recall, Turbine has been trying to streamline the classes and reduce the amount of skills. This makes sense, somewhat. However, I have noticed that our blue trait line has several "earned" skills, such as Defiant Challenge, Shield Tactics, and Shield Mastery. Defiant Challenge is a force taunt, and Shield Tactics/Mastery give buffs. Why not make Aggression another "earned" skill that is exclusive to the blue-line? Surely another one could not hurt. If it does hurt, why not make Shield Mastery or Shield Tactics available to all wardens (like our other gambits currently are) and putting Aggression (a force-taunt/aggro-catch-up-version) in one of their slots? I think yellow and red line wardens could benefit from Shield Tactics or Shield Mastery, especially if they are soloing!

    Now, why should Aggression be returned to us? Well, warden tanks are already sort of behind other tank classes in terms of the force-taunt/aggro-catch-up skills available to them. From what I have read and understand, guards, cappys, and champs all have multiple force-taunt and aggro-catch-up skills that they can use. These skills are important because tanks occasionally need that extra boost to put them ahead of other classes who might be getting too much aggro via healing and dps. As already mentioned, wardens only get one skill. The return of Aggression would create balance between the tank classes by giving tank wardens another skill to use when things get tough. After all, there is only so much dps a tank warden can do, and the +300% threat multiplier can only help so much. Other tank classes have other ways to get aggro--we should too.

    Also, please excuse if this is a repeat thread. I tried searching for a similar one, but could not find it. If there is another thread on returning Aggression, please let me know and I'll just post this information there.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by SilverUnicorn; Feb 21 2014 at 02:28 AM.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverUnicorn View Post
    I'm unsure about other warden tanks, but the removal of our Aggression gambit has left me with a broken heart. It was a truly great gambit and one of my favorites next to EoB and DoW. From what I understand, the other tank classes have multiple force-taunt/aggro-catch-up skills. With the removal of Aggression, wardens now have only one force-taunt skill, and it's not even a gambit. I don't know about other warden players, but the gambit system is one of my favorite things about the class! DC is a force-taunt skill, yes, but it is not a gambit--and being a warden, I love my gambits.

    Now, I can understand why Aggression was removed. From what I recall, Turbine has been trying to streamline the classes and reduce the amount of skills. Because Aggression was a force-taunt/threat transfer, it only applied to blue line tank Wardens--so it was removed, while gambits that were applicable to all warden types were retained. Keeping Aggression would have meant that while blue line wardens got a nifty aggro skill, red and yellow line wardens would have been left with a skill they could not use. Seems fair at first, but only to red and yellow line wardens, and not to blue line Wardens.

    I propose that Aggression be returned to us wardens, so that we are not behind other tank classes in terms of force taunts (we already wear medium armor--so why should we have fewer force-taunts as well?) Force-taunts are helpful skills because there is only so much dps a tank can do (aggro is now based on dps). Sometimes, a tank needs that extra boost to put them ahead of other classes who might be getting too much aggro via healing and dps. Guards, captains, and champs all have various skills ready to help them out, but wardens only get one. The return of Aggression will give tank wardens another skill to use when things get though; after all, there is only so much dps a tank warden can do. But, where could we put Aggression? Would not including it in our gambit list render it useless to red and yellow line wardens? That would cause much unfairness and unbalance.
    The answer to this is simple: make Aggression an earned gambit skill in our blue line. (I stress gambit; no more button skills please!)
    Our blue line already has a few earned skills, such as Shield Tactics and Shield Mastery, so an extra one should not hurt. If it does hurt, why not make one of our current earned gambit skills (like Shield Mastery or Shield Tactics) available to all wardens, and putting Aggression in its slot? I think yellow and red line wardens could benefit from Shield Tactics or Shield Mastery too, especially if they are soloing!
    This way, it will make all three Warden types happy: the blue-line Wardens will get their force-taunt gambit back, and the red and yellow line wardens won't have to worry about getting a skill they won't use!

    Also, please excuse if this is a repeat thread. I tried searching for a similar one, but could not find it. If there is another thread on returning Aggression, please let me know and I'll just post this information there.
    Thanks!
    Welcome to the Warden forums. Aggression was never a force taunt. I miss it too, but for different reasons. Aggression was a threat transfer from the rest of the fellowship. I don't play so much any more, because interesting mechanics like threat transfer got taken away.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Feleg View Post
    Welcome to the Warden forums. Aggression was never a force taunt. I miss it too, but for different reasons. Aggression was a threat transfer from the rest of the fellowship. I don't play so much any more, because interesting mechanics like threat transfer got taken away.
    Thank you! And oh my goodness, you are right! I for some reason always remembered Aggression as a force taunt because it usually got me the aggro. Allow me to edit my proposal then. I do not believe that threat transfers will work with the current system, which is a shame, but I believe that aggro-catch-up skills do exist. Perhaps Aggression could be resurrected as one of those. I just believe that warden tanks should have another force taunt/aggro-catch-up type skill at hand for when things get especially hairy. We do have epic heals, but I've heard of minis out-healing warden tanks and thus getting aggro--even with the +300% threat bonus in our blue line. Again, this is just what I have heard, but not what I have experienced.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Toulouse, France
    Posts
    159
    Removing threat transfer is a total nerf of the warden... I used to fire agression or dance of war as they allowed me to build aggro on mobs without worrying about their position. Now, if the mobs are not hit by our skills we can't hold aggro on them.
    Conviction can help a little because of the heal threat but works only if the other fellowship members have not full morale... So it's not totally reliable.
    And we don't have anymore gambits which can build threat without any damage... Quite embarrassing.

  5. #5
    I totally agree with you Kenjii. Threat transfers were what set warden tanks apart from the other tanks--it was one of our primary ways of tanking. It required quick thinking and constantly tweaking our alternations to meet the current demands (ie: I tanked differently depending on the boss, if there were high-dps classes in the group, etc). It was fun and challenging.
    Now, we are just like all the other tanks: we tank through damage. The only difference between us and the others is the weapons we use, the armor we wear, and the skills we employ; the strategy is the same: dps/heal spam. We play like we play solo--hitting hard and healing ourselves, the only difference being spamming DC from time to time. We're not really an exclusive class any more.
    So, I'd love it if we could get back our threat transfers. Maybe the devs will figure out how to return them to us one day. Otherwise, I'd be satisfied with another force taunt or aggro catch up skill. It would be helpful in the situations when DC is on cool down and when our AoE attacks missed a few targets. Yup.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000023fb3b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverUnicorn View Post
    Also, please excuse if this is a repeat thread. I tried searching for a similar one, but could not find it. If there is another thread on returning Aggression, please let me know and I'll just post this information there.
    Thanks!
    I doubt this this the first thread. And I doubt it will really matter.

    Basically warden AOE tanking is spam eob, with DC when it's off cooldown.
    Single target tanking is the WC-desolation line.
    There is no need for buffs anymore. As long as you can spam a few gambits, or train a monkey to do it for you, you're as "skilled" as you need to be to do the slim shadow of end-game content that's left.

    Look for whatever adds light damage. LI legacy, warden carving, blue line, red line.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    26
    Removing aggression or threat leachs in general is one of the many things i really don´t understand.
    It´s always been the way wardens work.
    Someone in beta said it didnt´t work in the new so called aggro system but without any explanation why.
    DC is proof that a skill can change threat values without making damage.

    Aggro match up is basically like: look who is the first one the threat list copy his value to me add 20%.
    So what would be so hard to make it like: check the whole list take 5% or something (or a solid number) from everybody and add it to my value.

    I´m not an Programmer but thats the way i see it.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Skirata View Post
    Removing aggression or threat leachs in general is one of the many things i really don´t understand.
    It´s always been the way wardens work.
    Someone in beta said it didnt´t work in the new so called aggro system but without any explanation why.
    DC is proof that a skill can change threat values without making damage.

    Aggro match up is basically like: look who is the first one the threat list copy his value to me add 20%.
    So what would be so hard to make it like: check the whole list take 5% or something (or a solid number) from everybody and add it to my value.

    I´m not an Programmer but thats the way i see it.
    It's disheartening when someone tells you that something won't work, yet neglects to give a reason or explanation.

    When you say "take 5% and add it to your value" do you mean that Aggression would make your overall threat +305% ? The numbers are just arbitrary.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    26
    Of course numbers are just made up.

    What i was trying to say was that i can´t believe that threat leachs are not possible anymore when there is a skill that can manipulate aggro tables, just in a slightly different way.

 

 

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