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  1. #1

    Dear Devs, take a look at those bugs, please

    All are welcomed to post bugs they found while playing warden.
    From what I saw blue line looks really buggy/messy.

    Thick Skin trait (blue trait line), that is supposed to increase +10% crit defence and physical or tactical mitigation while using dance of war (for pm) or conviction (for tm) does nothing.

    Indefatigable trait, again from blue trait line, that is supposed to increase Restoration base heal by +10% and Celebration of Skill block rating by +10%, does nothing (at least for CoS, not 100% about base heal).

    Elegant Finish passive skill (blue trait line) has wrong description. It says that dance of war is giving parry and block rating buff and surety of death giving +2% physical mitigation buff. It works vice versa: surety of death gives parry and block buff, while DoW gives small mitigation buff.

    I hope it will be fixed in the future (near future, I hope!

    Edit: Resounding Challange spammed from battle memory also does nothing, at least done immidiately after first one. I think when some time passes it does damage. But still it is not working as it should.
    Last edited by Galwir; Feb 07 2014 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,352
    There are a number of problems in Assailment, too. As for warden issues in general, you can probably find a number of them listed here: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...at-need-fixing though some of the issues mentioned there have already been addressed, and were never consolidated into a single post.

    Some of the concerns I recall, mostly Assailment:
    Shatter does super low, tiny radius damage.
    Barbed javelin bleed on length 5 gambits (Severe Bleed) is as low as that of length 2 gambits instead of higher than length 4.
    Untyped damage on a number of things; some of this may be addressed in the 12.3 patch.
    - low, medium, big bleeds (Low Bleed, Low Bleed - Vicious Offense, Medium Bleed, Medium Bleed - Vicious Offense, Big Bleed, Big Bleed - Vicious Offense)
    - barbed javelin bleeds (Low, Moderate, Major, Severe Bleed - Barbed Javelins).
    - bleed proc on javelin builder in Assailment stance (Quick Toss - Bloodied)
    - shatter from trait Shattered Javelins
    - possibly the redline aoe from bleed removal (Spear Sweep trait), since it functions similar to shatter (haven't tested its type)
    Spear gambit damage boosts no longer apply to Ranged gambits that start with javelin
    - redline trait Way of the Spear (6%)
    - spear gambit damage legacy (10%)
    - redline trait set bonuses (15%)
    - big battle jewelry set bonus (10%)
    Way of the Spear trait applies to recklessness gambits that do not start with spear (Precise Blow, Piercing Strike, Spear of Virtue)
    Attack Duration boosts are giving maybe half of their listed bonus (Endurance Training, recklessness selection bonus, recklessness legacy; probably Adroit Manoeuvre and Ranged Adroit Manoeuvre too)
    Ranged Boar's Rush is missing its weapon component of damage is therefore super weak. (Not that it would be worth using even if fixed anyway.)
    Spear-Shield gambit damage boosts only give 1/2 boost to Ranged gambits whose melee counterparts are 2-hit attacks, and 1/3 boost to Ranged gambits whose melee counterparts are 3-hit attacks.
    - Ranged Combination Strike
    - Ranged Offensive Strike
    - Ranged Onslaught
    - Ranged Wall of Steel
    - Ranged Dark Before the Dawn
    -- This bug used to exist in the melee counterparts too, and was fixed with the launch of Riders of Rohan expansion IIRC. It was only applying the bonus to the first hit of multihit attacks.
    -- This bug also existed for spear gambit damage boosts applying to the same Ranged gambits, until HD broke spear gambit damage boosts completely.
    The Assailment traitline bonus Makeshift Caltrops spreads the regular (30% slow, no root) Hampering Javelin debuff to other targets, not the Improved Hampering Javelin that Assailment spec wardens have.
    Fire oil and light oil do not change the damage type of several warden ranged skills:
    - Marked Target
    - Diminished Target
    - Shap Shot - Ambush
    - Dodge This!
    - Quick Thrust (javelin builder)
    - all Ranged javelin damage type gambits
    Javelin of Deadly Force can't hit anything if the player so much as stands the width of a blade of grass higher than the mobs.
    Level 90 warden carvings for Light-type damage are the same stats as level 80.
    The bug reporting page itself ( /bug ) is frankly horribly slow, takes several minutes to load just to report one bug, so most of these bugs I've only reported once or twice over the past few years, and the minor ones (makeshift caltrops, carvings) not at all.

    I think that's the worst of the bugs, not counting how unplayable Big Battles are for gambits and how the BB mobs keep dropping combat and wiping bleeds/debuffs.

    As for non-bug issues:
    Assailment stance fighting does more damage traited Recklessness traitline primary instead of Assailment traitline primary.
    - Assailment traits are by and large very underwhelming (Momentum, Shields Up, second and third ranks of Piercing Javelins, Shattered Javelins, Hurry Up With That!, Battering Strikes, Suppresion, Javelin of Deadly Force)
    - Assailment traitline bonuses are lackluster (Fire At Will is too low a bonus to be usable, Dodge This! is low damage and only activates if a player's Finesse is too low, and Snap Shot is both too unpredictable and generally useless except for Snap Shot - Ambush. Snap Shot also doesn't include Marked or Dimished Target, despite being our best AOE damage skills.)
    Improved Hampering Javelin slow is too strong - 45% on a sustainable slow is overkill.
    In informal testing, Assailment stance damage overall is somewhere around *half* the DPS of Recklessness primary using In The Fray stance, and even below that of Determination primary setups with similar gear.
    - Assailment stance shield (Behind the Shield) and fist (Warden's Aim) builders have not scaled well in damage and have a long animation, 2.3 to 2.4 seconds to do ~300 damage. Trying to optimize DPS involves avoiding these builders as much as possible.
    - gambits without a spear(javelin) builder have no Assailment counterpart, so gambits such as Defensive Strike, Goad, and the Brink of Victory and Impressive Flourish lines can still only be used in melee range while in Assailment stance.
    - see the aforementioned spear gambit damage and spear-shield gambit damage bugs
    - all the good bleed boosts are deep in Recklessness traitline now
    If the attack speed bugs get fixed for Recklessness, that would give melee Recklessness users even more damage when they are already some of the highest DPS toons - something might have to give. Light damage DoTs probably.
    And since you didn't mention it... I've seen a number of people say that For the Free Peoples, the Determination capstone, is rather gimp too.
    EDIT: Forgot to mention, Wages of Fear has not scaled well at all and most Ranged gambits aren't worth using... ever.


    As you might guess, I've been thinking about posting a consolidated list of things that need fixing for a while; just hadn't taken the time. And honestly this is not comprehensive, but is instead focused more on the redheaded stepchild known as Assailment. The only thing keeping it viable currently is the broken bleed damage, and that mostly for PvMP.
    Last edited by Gremus; Feb 07 2014 at 08:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galwir View Post
    Thick Skin trait (blue trait line), that is supposed to increase +10% crit defence and physical or tactical mitigation while using dance of war (for pm) or conviction (for tm) does nothing.
    I'm seeing it's working just fine. I get +10% to critical defence (1439 vs 1583) and +10% to the mitigation ratings (540 vs 594).

    Indefatigable trait, again from blue trait line, that is supposed to increase Restoration base heal by +10% and Celebration of Skill block rating by +10%, does nothing (at least for CoS, not 100% about base heal).
    I'm seeing CoS getting the 10% buff to Block (1439 vs 1583). Though I'm only seeing a ~5% gain on the base heal for Restoration (1590 vs 1671). +10% should have been 1749.

    Elegant Finish passive skill (blue trait line) has wrong description. It says that dance of war is giving parry and block rating buff and surety of death giving +2% physical mitigation buff. It works vice versa: surety of death gives parry and block buff, while DoW gives small mitigation buff.
    Yeah, just a tooltip bug from when Egg had those gambits switched around in Beta.

    Edit: Resounding Challange spammed from battle memory also does nothing, at least done immidiately after first one. I think when some time passes it does damage. But still it is not working as it should.
    Yup, sure is kind of wonky still.
    L100: Gentoo [WRD] · Adilae [CHM] · Svenric [BRG] · Svengo [HNT] · Svenwyn [CPT] · Svenriq [GRD] · Svenrid [LRM] · Sveorn [BRN]
    Officer of Easily Amused · Gladden · "If I'm not having fun, I must be doing it wrong."

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SvenNiscadae View Post
    I get +10% to critical defence (1439 vs 1583) and +10% to the mitigation ratings (540 vs 594) 10% buff to Block (1439 vs 1583)
    On every class I saw if something says +x% of something (lets say, physical mastery), it adds to the % we already have. For example my PM gives me +155% damage, so skill or item that increase PM by 5% will change this number to 160%. Thats why I counted it as bug, because I have never met this type of 'thinking' before.
    If it is working as intended, it should has different description (as +x% to something means to the final number of % I have to perform some action, not to the the buff).
    And leaves those skills usless, which is pretty sad.

    About javelin's skills and spear buff: I read some time ago it is working as intended, because spear is not javelin, so melee buffs should not work on ranged skills/gambits. I agree with this, but sadly this leaves our ranged stance in even worse state, as it deals small damage, debuffs are rather weak, bleeds very weak, and we have no LIs legacies or gear sets that can improve it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galwir View Post
    On every class I saw if something says +x% of something (lets say, physical mastery), it adds to the % we already have. For example my PM gives me +155% damage, so skill or item that increase PM by 5% will change this number to 160%. Thats why I counted it as bug, because I have never met this type of 'thinking' before.
    If it is working as intended, it should has different description (as +x% to something means to the final number of % I have to perform some action, not to the the buff).
    The Elegant Finish +2% mitigations buff to those gambits is set after the traits are applied. They're not going to apply an individual trait bonus to a set bonus.
    L100: Gentoo [WRD] · Adilae [CHM] · Svenric [BRG] · Svengo [HNT] · Svenwyn [CPT] · Svenriq [GRD] · Svenrid [LRM] · Sveorn [BRN]
    Officer of Easily Amused · Gladden · "If I'm not having fun, I must be doing it wrong."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galwir View Post
    About javelin's skills and spear buff: I read some time ago it is working as intended, because spear is not javelin, so melee buffs should not work on ranged skills/gambits. I agree with this, but sadly this leaves our ranged stance in even worse state, as it deals small damage, debuffs are rather weak, bleeds very weak, and we have no LIs legacies or gear sets that can improve it.
    Yes, that is an opinion some players have expressed, despite spear gambit damage working on javelin gambits for years, despite spear-shield gambit damage and spear gambit power cost reduction still working on javelin gambits.

    And you raise a good point - if a blue name does officially decide that spear gambit damage not applying to javelin gambits is working as intended, then instead of fixing that, they just need to redo itemization, legacies, and trait bonuses instead.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Galwir View Post
    All are welcomed to post bugs they found while playing warden.
    From what I saw blue line looks really buggy/messy.

    Thick Skin trait (blue trait line), that is supposed to increase +10% crit defence and physical or tactical mitigation while using dance of war (for pm) or conviction (for tm) does nothing.

    Indefatigable trait, again from blue trait line, that is supposed to increase Restoration base heal by +10% and Celebration of Skill block rating by +10%, does nothing (at least for CoS, not 100% about base heal).

    Elegant Finish passive skill (blue trait line) has wrong description. It says that dance of war is giving parry and block rating buff and surety of death giving +2% physical mitigation buff. It works vice versa: surety of death gives parry and block buff, while DoW gives small mitigation buff.

    I hope it will be fixed in the future (near future, I hope!

    Edit: Resounding Challange spammed from battle memory also does nothing, at least done immidiately after first one. I think when some time passes it does damage. But still it is not working as it should.
    Problems with those traits is that they contribute to ratings, same as buffs, that's what makes them useless, even on my full tanking gear I use a lot of red line traits, since I can ignore most traits of blue line, and I only keep up 2 buffs (celebration of skill + shield mastery) to have all avoids capped and inc healing buff.
    What should be done is turn every trait that gives rating (same as buffs) into a certain %, since you can't keep up more than 3 buffs and they don't need to make them a high %, just giving 5% mitigation to dance of war and conviction in total would be enough, since that rating added is useless. And maybe giving few avoid % too to some skills (fist shield line)...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,352
    Rather than editing my post, I'm going to comment on the things that were fixed in today's patch. Not really sure why they weren't mentioned in the patch notes, but glad to see things getting fixed regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gremus View Post
    Shatter does super low, tiny radius damage.
    Damage and damage type fixed (Definitely recommended for Assailment wardens now); radius appears to be 3m, but still good for single target.

    Barbed javelin bleed on length 5 gambits (Severe Bleed) is as low as that of length 2 gambits instead of higher than length 4.
    Fixed.

    Untyped damage on a number of things; some of this may be addressed in the 12.3 patch.
    - low, medium, big bleeds (Low Bleed, Low Bleed - Vicious Offense, Medium Bleed, Medium Bleed - Vicious Offense, Big Bleed, Big Bleed - Vicious Offense)
    The basic bleeds on Power Attack, Mighty Blow, and Unerring strike have had their type fixed.
    The 15% chance bleeds on those 3 gambits (from Recklessness traitline bonus Martial Fury) are still untyped.
    Ranged Unerring Strike's Big Bleed is still untyped.

    - barbed javelin bleeds (Low, Moderate, Major, Severe Bleed - Barbed Javelins).
    Fixed.

    - bleed proc on javelin builder in Assailment stance (Quick Toss - Bloodied)
    Still untyped but minor anyway.

    - shatter from trait Shattered Javelins
    Fixed.

    - possibly the redline aoe from bleed removal (Spear Sweep trait), since it functions similar to shatter (haven't tested its type)
    Testing it post-patch and it is weapon damage type. Same radius as Shatter?

    Spear gambit damage boosts no longer apply to Ranged gambits that start with javelin
    - redline trait Way of the Spear (6%)
    - spear gambit damage legacy (10%)
    - redline trait set bonuses (15%)
    - big battle jewelry set bonus (10%)
    Still a no go, though I don't have the BB jewelry to test the last one.

    Way of the Spear trait applies to recklessness gambits that do not start with spear (Precise Blow, Piercing Strike, Spear of Virtue)
    Still bugged, but minor. Maybe change trait description to 'Recklessness / reversal gambit damage'?

    Attack Duration boosts are giving maybe half of their listed bonus (Endurance Training, recklessness selection bonus, recklessness legacy; probably Adroit Manoeuvre and Ranged Adroit Manoeuvre too)
    Haven't tested yet, takes a bit more time to do, but at least one of the other warden threads had positive news about attack duration legacy post patch.

    Ranged Boar's Rush is missing its weapon component of damage is therefore super weak. (Not that it would be worth using even if fixed anyway.)
    Still bugged, but minor.

    Spear-Shield gambit damage boosts only give 1/2 boost to Ranged gambits whose melee counterparts are 2-hit attacks, and 1/3 boost to Ranged gambits whose melee counterparts are 3-hit attacks.
    - Ranged Combination Strike
    - Ranged Offensive Strike
    - Ranged Onslaught
    - Ranged Wall of Steel
    - Ranged Dark Before the Dawn
    -- This bug used to exist in the melee counterparts too, and was fixed with the launch of Riders of Rohan expansion IIRC. It was only applying the bonus to the first hit of multihit attacks.
    -- This bug also existed for spear gambit damage boosts applying to the same Ranged gambits, until HD broke spear gambit damage boosts completely.
    Still bugged, but didn't really expect a years-old bug to go away that quickly. If this and spear gambit damage were fixed, it would be a jump of up to +60% damage on the affected gambits, so I have to keep hoping.

    The Assailment traitline bonus Makeshift Caltrops spreads the regular (30% slow, no root) Hampering Javelin debuff to other targets, not the Improved Hampering Javelin that Assailment spec wardens have.
    Still bugged, but minor.

    Fire oil and light oil do not change the damage type of several warden ranged skills:
    - Marked Target
    - Diminished Target
    - Shap Shot - Ambush
    - Dodge This!
    - Quick Thrust (javelin builder)
    - all Ranged javelin damage type gambits
    Still bugged, though I never really expected it to apply to ranged gambits.

    Javelin of Deadly Force can't hit anything if the player so much as stands the width of a blade of grass higher than the mobs.
    Fixed! Haven't tried on super steep slopes, but on the hills behind Aldburg I can hit mobs that are upslope or downslope of me.

    Level 90 warden carvings for Light-type damage are the same stats as level 80.
    Still bugged but minor.


    Overall we got some pretty nice fixes with this patch; my thanks go out to the silent blue names.

    On a side note, since I was resetting traits and testing stuff anyway, I tested Piercing Javelins trait. Apparently it increases defense against gambits instead of decreasing it. Using an Aldburg dummy and Ranged Wall of Steel crits (from out of combat, no +ranged damage from builders):
    no points in Piercing Javelins trait: 5818
    one point: 5602
    two points: 5581
    three points: 5559
    So this is a new one for the bugged list, though even with that the list is still a fair bit shorter today than it was yesterday; my thanks again.


    TLDR: Shatter fixed, most untyped damage fixed, JODF fixed, Piercing Javelins bugged.

 

 

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