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  1. #1
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    War Steeds and the Water that Dismounts them

    I have an issue, and it only occurs in Rohan (possibly only in Western Rohan, haven't had it happen in Eastern).

    Normally, when a horse rides through water shallow enough, you are not dismounted. But now if I lag hitches my character even a *tiny* amount, I'm dismounted while crossing water at any depth. An ankle-deep puddle will dismount me at the slightest touch of lag.

    This is not recently true of any other zones that I have seen--I have lagged a little while crossing other bodies of shallow water without being dismounted.

    Anyone else having this issue? Maybe it has something to do with how the landscape is layered? I remember in the past that there were spots on the landscape, even looking like dry land, which fell below the water line and because of that dismounted you. I remember one particular annoying one on the one horse-quest route from Hengstacer to Othrikar that dismounted you and failed the quest, and another one in Staddle right on the path where you had to deliver a bucket of water, causing you to drop the bucket.

    The difference here is that *any* sliver of water in Western Rohan at any elevation has the possibility to do so if I lag at all.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  2. #2
    I've had this several times, but also in East Rohan. Like when following the path out of the South Gate of Snowbourn, I got dismounted when crossing the small bridge (not even fording the small stream that was there). But, it's far more annoying in West Rohan, after killing Patarshan and heading north to kill Krupu, I'm constantly being dismounted right upon getting to the water's edge, then have to re-summon my war-steed and ford the steam as normal.

  3. #3
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    This happened to me recently on Cadence (my warsteed) at the quest where we're supposed to scout a river crossing (Entwash Vale area?), but I've also been dismounted from my regular mounts many times in lower regions. One place that comes to mind is the crossing at Budgeford, where the adventurous "seafaring" hobbit says he went all the way to Frogmorton. I land in ankle-deep water every time.

    Since my horses are all well-trained and know better than to refuse a water crossing or throw me, it has to be a bug.

  4. #4
    It happens in Eastern also. For example in that 1 m^2 puddle in Snowbourne.

    If it is lag-related as you suggest, perhaps it is normal to occur more frequently in the latest zones.

  5. #5
    same for me, any body of water and you can be dismounted, it happens more in rohan but it does happen in the other areas, worse is if you are in combat and just ride over a puddle and instantly dismounted and have to resummon your warsteed before you die.
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  6. #6
    I also get thrown from my war steed if his hooves get damp. It's my understanding that the best way to address this issue is to type "/bug" from in-game and file a report about it. I imagine this is a know problem, but perhaps it will help Turbine to know how wide spread the problem is, how frequently it occurs, and WHERE it happens. Maybe it's just a glitch with specific water crossings?
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  7. #7
    Agreed, this is very annoying. Well some places that it happens all of the time is any river crossing in West Rohan, and the crossing in the Norcrofts in Eastern Rohan by the warband Skutog. Basically if it looks like you are supposed to cross at a certain point on any river, jump the river anyway.

  8. #8
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    Man, it sounds like some people have it worse than I do. Or maybe it's a new problem and I just don't ride normal horses or in old zones enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by KielArronax View Post
    Agreed, this is very annoying. Well some places that it happens all of the time is any river crossing in West Rohan, and the crossing in the Norcrofts in Eastern Rohan by the warband Skutog. Basically if it looks like you are supposed to cross at a certain point on any river, jump the river anyway.
    I thought I was clever thinking the same thing, but I get dismounted occasionally even midair over a puddle. Might be due to lag, and I'm really closer to the water than it seems on my computer--it does sort of seem like when it's a really small bit of water and I jump really far in advance, its not an issue.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    ... An ankle-deep puddle will dismount me at the slightest touch of lag.
    This has always been true for my guys. There is even a spot in snow on the way to the relic guys next the bard in ... what ever that building was ... anyway there was a spot on the sidewalk that had no visible water that would sometimes dismount my guys. I'd hear the splash splash sound as if going through a stream or what not and off my horse I'd go. No stream no puddle just a dry sidewalk but I would hear the splashing and get dismounted.

    Not tied to lag as far as I can tell. Just some stupid random toss of the dice. I found and find it extremely annoying. Does not seem to happen as much in the new zone but still can.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandie2 View Post
    This has always been true for my guys. There is even a spot in snow on the way to the relic guys next the bard in ... what ever that building was ... anyway there was a spot on the sidewalk that had no visible water that would sometimes dismount my guys. I'd hear the splash splash sound as if going through a stream or what not and off my horse I'd go. No stream no puddle just a dry sidewalk but I would hear the splashing and get dismounted.

    Not tied to lag as far as I can tell. Just some stupid random toss of the dice. I found and find it extremely annoying. Does not seem to happen as much in the new zone but still can.
    Yeah, that's a different issue altogether. There are various points like this all over Middle Earth. What annoys me more is that it happens at *every* point that is anywhere near water. It may actually be at any point where water meets land, because I don't recall ever being dismounted in the middle of the river, only if there's a hiccup right as I'm entering or leaving a river.

    The ABSOLUTE worst is crossing a wide body of water like the crossing just west of Edoras, where the river is wide and shallow, but there are a few tiny islands of land in the middle of the river. I have NEVER made it across that river mounted. It's like it does a check every time you cross from water to land (even a sliver of a sand bank) and vice versa, and if it processes it too slowly, it convinces your horse that you're in the Marianas Trench and tells him to bail.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  11. #11
    Glittering Caves is another area that you do the tuck and roll. There is a spot where the water comes up onto the trail between the cave entrance path and the balista. It doesn't happen every time, but more often than it should.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    It's like it does a check every time you cross from water to land (even a sliver of a sand bank) and vice versa, and if it processes it too slowly, it convinces your horse that you're in the Marianas Trench and tells him to bail.
    I think this is more or less what it does.

    I'm guessing that in order to calculate a war-steed's momentum and Fury, the engine is constantly predicting where the player is going and how fast. When you approach a body of water at high speed and a slight angle, even a shallow one, the game doesn't take into account the ground leveling off, and predicts that you'll keep heading in a straight line. So it thinks you're going deeper than you really are, and by the time the client and server come to an agreement you're dismounted and dumbfounded on the bank.

    This also explains all the rubberbanding and jerky movement.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Yeah, that's a different issue altogether. There are various points like this all over Middle Earth. What annoys me more is that it happens at *every* point that is anywhere near water. It may actually be at any point where water meets land, because I don't recall ever being dismounted in the middle of the river, only if there's a hiccup right as I'm entering or leaving a river.

    The ABSOLUTE worst is crossing a wide body of water like the crossing just west of Edoras, where the river is wide and shallow, but there are a few tiny islands of land in the middle of the river. I have NEVER made it across that river mounted. It's like it does a check every time you cross from water to land (even a sliver of a sand bank) and vice versa, and if it processes it too slowly, it convinces your horse that you're in the Marianas Trench and tells him to bail.
    I've run into those myself. For a few areas where I cross frequently, I've taken the time to examine the river and found that in some cases the little islands have very deep channels between them. If I hit the channel, I dismount. Others have shallow channels and cause no problems whther I jump or ride over them. I try to remember the shallow path and head that way to cross. I have come to believe that there's also a client-server communication delay at time (lag) where I see myself in one spot but the server thinks I'm not that close, so when I jump I'm not near where it seems I'm jumping. Dismount.

    For some rivers, I've found a narrow enough spot that I can successfully jump across the entire river even though there's no ford. These seem to work better for me, most of the time.
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  14. #14
    I'm sure this has been bought up before, but IRL horses are pretty good in the water, and I always thought it a bit weird that the horses in lotro can't handle it that well.
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  15. #15
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    I've been dismounted in the Moors just down the hill on the path west of the spider den before you get to HH. There's not even water there, but it managed to dismount me. Got that lovely splash sound. No body around. You know, I should have bugged it.
    Bruuwnor, Dwarf Champion of Arkenstone, Pipeweed and Ale

  16. #16
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    this is easily the most annoying landscape bug in the game. Turbine hasn't addressed it in over a year they've known about it. I kindof doubt they can, and its sad, because it really takes away from your enjoyment of riding a horse.
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  17. #17
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    I think it happens if you change zone server. There are some areas where it's safe to ride over shallow water (near Helms DeepI found 2 safe zones) and other zones where everyone gets dismounted, even if the road is clearly visible at that location. Once it happened to me that I got dismounted, then remounted, went back and forth and didn't get dismounted anymore.
    In the past I managed to jump over water in one out of four tries, but these times are over.

    It's really annoying, I have no idea what's causing it. I can understand that we get dismounted in deep water (even if it isn't fully realistic), but the shallow water where even Hobbits can run shouldn't dismount us.
    Last edited by Neumi; Feb 18 2014 at 08:36 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by eorl67 View Post
    I'm guessing that in order to calculate a war-steed's momentum and Fury, the engine is constantly predicting where the player is going and how fast. When you approach a body of water at high speed and a slight angle, even a shallow one, the game doesn't take into account the ground leveling off, and predicts that you'll keep heading in a straight line. So it thinks you're going deeper than you really are, and by the time the client and server come to an agreement you're dismounted and dumbfounded on the bank.
    This is the most logical and sensible explanation I've heard so far. Makes perfect sense.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elusius View Post
    This is the most logical and sensible explanation I've heard so far. Makes perfect sense.
    With 2 exceptions
    1. you also get dismounted if you jump over a river, even if you jump early
    2. it does not happen at every river. I managed to get straight over a river which was not completely plain.

    As far as I know the server does not handle the Z-coordinates for moving, only for targeting. But that's just an assumption of course, but supported by a bug that lets you flow in mid-air sometimes.

  20. #20
    This happens to me all the time. I get dismounted in just inches of water. I have sent in a bug report on it but never heard anything. Not sure why it happens, but it does.


  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by eorl67 View Post
    I think this is more or less what it does.

    I'm guessing that in order to calculate a war-steed's momentum and Fury, the engine is constantly predicting where the player is going and how fast. When you approach a body of water at high speed and a slight angle, even a shallow one, the game doesn't take into account the ground leveling off, and predicts that you'll keep heading in a straight line. So it thinks you're going deeper than you really are, and by the time the client and server come to an agreement you're dismounted and dumbfounded on the bank.

    This also explains all the rubberbanding and jerky movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elusius View Post
    This is the most logical and sensible explanation I've heard so far. Makes perfect sense.
    I have to be another nay sayer here. When I get dismounted, other then by water deep enough that I do need to swim, when I get dismounted it is before I actually enter the water. Check next time you get dismounted. Where are you standing? My guys are always standing on the river bank, both feet on dry land before the water. Not to mention the times I've been dismounted on the dry sidewalk in snowbourn. I don't think the game engine predicts where we are going. Fury is built up from the time spent at x speed, not from a prediction of time to be spent.

  22. #22
    I have been encountering the "dismounted while crossing water " and it has not been very consistent. I can, mounted, slowly approach the crossing and watch as I momentarily stop, then drop to the water as the war steed disappears. Water that is typically up to my ankles and nowhere deep enough for me to otherwise fear crossing it, i.e. at a ford. If I remount then try it again, I cross normally without a problem. Sometimes, I ride off to do stuff then when I come back I can again experience being dismounted but not always.

    I know that mounted movement (either by normal horses or by war steed) can occur independently from what else is happening in the game. While mounted on a normal horse, I had a character try the elf guard to the Caras Galadhon with no response (the guard did have the ring above him and it disappeared when clicked on). After a period, maybe a minute of waiting, with no response, I turned around and rode across the bridge then down to a pond where I encountered a lizard critter. Not noticing that my skills were all grayed out, I aggroed it then had to run away because I had no means of fighting it. Logging off then on cleared whatever the problem was and she was able to click the elf and go into the city.

    I would speculate that for mounted movement there are certain things that would automatically dismount you unless other game information says no. Entering a building (boundary check), and entering water (another boundary check), for starters, so it may be that if the game is lagging, even every so slightly, so your position is not where the client shows you as you cross a boundary where there is water, then there is no check from the game that says water is shallow so the "entering water" condition depth check fails resulting in dismounting. By the time you remount and try again, the game has caught up so the water depth check works and you are not then dismounted. Given that the two actions (game and mounted movement) seems to be able to operate somewhat independently it is a possible explanation (and actually makes sense to me).

 

 

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