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  1. #201
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    Excited about ToO scaling?

    Don't be...I think a lot of you saw the first part of that paragraph and ignored the last sentence...."but it’s not something we can commit to doing more of this year at this point." translation--it's not happening this year.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q2: Which areas are being revamped for update 13?
    A: [Budgeford] - We're hitting the North Downs, Trollshaws, and Misty Mountains with Update 13. North Downs has a lot of content already, and it's a great zone, but the quest flow and level range definitely need some love. Misty Mountains and Trollshaws are beautiful zones, but the quests are sparse and often difficult to find. We're hoping to address all of these issues during the revamps.
    Please don't change the elites to signatures in the process, those elites were great for the impression and sense of danger (very important!!!). Just addressing quest flow and level ranges are fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q9: Are you planning a major Ettenmoors update during 2014?
    A: [HoarseDev] – We’re presently working on shoring up some of the fundamentals (long overdue stat updates). We are also prototyping some new stuff. No promises, but I want to see if we can get catapults in there.
    Catapults are a nice idea if implemented right, and at the right places. Buildings probably need a different layout to make this viable. I think the ability to shoot TA from TR or lugz can work nice, and TR and lugz from TA for that matter.

    About autoflips. A lot of people want them gone, but I think they are good to keep variety in the moors, if done well.
    Make them always aim for keep-balance, at a ~1h timer after the last flip (meaning if you flip something yourself it prevents an autoflip too). That is, lugz will only autoflip to creepside and TR only to freepside, with autoflips never happening if you already have a keep. So if TR and lugz are both red, freeps will get TR at some point. If TR and lugz are both blue, creeps will get lugz after some time, but if freeps have lugz, TR won't flip to freepside. Well, maybe if creeps have TR and freeps have lugz, it could both flip at the same time. This to prevent GV/grams camps from going all day long (which mostly happens if one side has both keeps, or at least the keep close to the opposing side's rez).
    Isendeep/LC/TA should never autoflip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post

    Q10: When can we expect new content in the form of a new multi-boss raid?
    [/B]
    A: [JWbarry] – A new raid is not in the plans for 2014.
    That is unfortunate, but to be expected. Would there be any chance for a new (challenging) 3man or 6man with each of the major updates in 2014 (except u13 than since there is probably no time left)? I guess there should be some room for 3mans left.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q15: With the advent of the player up scaling for Epic Battles is it possible and being looked into to allow us to downscale and run other classic instance spaces without requiring the old instances to be redesigned and broken up thus allowing for the continued use of locks on the instances like Tower of Orthanc, Carn Dum, The Rift, Draigoch, Moria, DN etc?
    A: [JWbarry] – Not currently. Downscaling presents a lot of different challenges than upscaling does. Upscaling we’re adding statistics to the character, downscaling we have to figure out how to not just add statistics, but what to do about additional skills that have been unlocked. Upscaling can tend to produce underpowered characters, while downscaling more often produces overpowered characters. Additionally, our instance scaling works by moving the instance level up and down. Expectation of how a certain type of space behaves and consistency in its ruleset is a very valuable thing.
    Perhaps the easiest solution would be to downscale (gear) below the target level (except if the gear you wear is on-level), so lvl 95 players would have gear downscaled to lvl 40 in a lvl 50 instance for example. That would make on-level gear also relevant for these instances. One fix that might be needed in upscaling is TDR/THD scaling for tactical classes. A lvl 34 RK that's upscaled only has the defensive stats right, dps is only 10% of a lvl 95 character, healing the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q28: When inspecting someone, you can no longer see their traits. Will this be rectified in the future?
    A: [NLS] Unfortunately with the trait tree redesign, viewing another player’s equipped traits has gotten a lot more complicated. As a result, we don’t expect to enable this function.
    Would it be possible to only show some meta-data, like the amount of ranks spent in each line + what the main spec is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q31: Are there plans to remove all the old icon-placeholders & doppelgangers that are still used for buffs, items, jewelry etc?
    A: [HoarseDev] – Icons are always… challenging. We are working on sorting a lot of this stuff out.
    My interpretation: Eh... we have so much to do we really don't get to it... Let's give some kind of vague answer and hope it pleases people enough.
    As long placeholder graphics exist it still looks like a beta version of the game, players do notice it, and it really gives players the impression it's not a finished product.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q2: Which areas are being revamped for update 13?
    A: [Budgeford] - We're hitting the North Downs, Trollshaws, and Misty Mountains with Update 13. North Downs has a lot of content already, and it's a great zone, but the quest flow and level range definitely need some love. Misty Mountains and Trollshaws are beautiful zones, but the quests are sparse and often difficult to find. We're hoping to address all of these issues during the revamps.

    While I agree that Misty Mountains and Trollshaws need some attention (main problem being that the regions have about half the number of quests of other regions) I hope you are very careful about the North Downs revamp.

    Currently North Downs is actually my favourite zone and I don't think it needs much change. It is true that the quest flow is not perfectly stream-lined, but in my opinion this is a *good* thing - it makes the area feel much more like a real place than it would if the quest-flow was perfectly smooth and nice and generally convenient to us players.

    It is also the case that North Downs currently has a fairly large number of fellowship landscape quests. Please don't change that. It is nice that there is still a few places left for those who like grouping and slightly more challenging quests. There are plenty of other options available for those who like to play solo all the time.

    Personally I think that there are only a few changes that need to be done to North Downs.
    First of all add swift stable travel options between Esteldin, Amon Raith, and Trestlebridge, as well as between Trestlebridge and Bree. (Swift travel between Esteldin and Aughaire would also be nice.) That would take care of most problems that might exist due to the back-and-forth behaviour of a few questlines. (No real need for swift travel to/from Othrikar and Lin Giliath. The travel times between Esteldin and those places are not too bad, and you don't need to go there very often.)

    Secondly the part of the Epic that requires you to kill a half-orc in Nan Wathren. Depending on exactly how you walk in there you might not actually get an opportunity to activate your elfstone (and get the corresponding Inspired Greatness buff) and even if you do activate it, it can easily get de-activated if you take a wrong turn. This makes things needlessly difficult and can be more than a little confusing.


    And a final note: While I do agree about MM and Trollshaws getting a revamp, I hope that does not mean that you will turn all existing fellowship quests and turn them into solo quests. Like I said before - it is good that there are some landscape fellowship quests available for those who like them. The people who don't like them have plenty of other options available.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience
    Q2: Which areas are being revamped for update 13?
    A: [Budgeford] - We're hitting the North Downs, Trollshaws, and Misty Mountains with Update 13. North Downs has a lot of content already, and it's a great zone, but the quest flow and level range definitely need some love. Misty Mountains and Trollshaws are beautiful zones, but the quests are sparse and often difficult to find. We're hoping to address all of these issues during the revamps.
    Since I have always loathed North Downs I hope you will be making substantial changes. The quest flow is terrible and the large number of fellowship quests will hopefully be removed. I know hardly anyone who bothers to by the quest pack these days for these reasons. Dol Dinen is supposedly beloved but I never see anyone on level there and hope this area will be made solo-friendly. Trollshaws is just not fun to quest through. It is supposed to be a largely deserted area and therefore filling it with extra quest hubs would probably not be a good idea. It would probably be better to make more use of Rivendell as a hub including more quests inside it. This would be a way to increase the quest count and make it worth the money for the quest pack without changing the feel of the area too much.

    Overall the answers provided are interesting and I think bode well. I will be very interested to see what this year brings.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    While this year of smaller updates and revamping things may turn out to be worth our patience (which is yet to be seen), what concerns me more is... a seeming lack of "vision" for the game. In other words, the plans that have been unveiled so far come across as being too short-sighted.
    Interesting to see your take on the game. Mine is very different. I do feel I see a strong vision, here. The game, after all, has been primarily about bringing the books to life, and regardless of whatever side content we may be given from time to time, the path of the epic story is the central focus. The story from HD on is dominated by massive battles, so something like the Big Battle system was needed to bring that type of content to life in a way that feels truly massive while giving us a role commensurate with our character's place in the story (peripheral but valuable).

    I feel the Big Battle system does just that, and I think it's a huge achievement by Turbine that shows they do have a vision for how to bring that epic story to life. Not only did they bring these massive battles to life on a scale that feels suitably intense, but with the 3 specializations they also managed to give people multiple options for approaching that content. Along with that, they gave us multiple options for group size, and some solo-friendly choices. The new system for medals, promotions, and rewards is also pretty smart, and gives us choices there, too. People can cash out right away or save up for better items.

    The thing is, new systems are always a gamble. You can never be really sure how people will receive them, and some people will like them and others will hate them. This is true with Big Battles. People who are heavily invested in traditional multi-boss raids are going to want more of same. People who dislike learning new mechanics are going to shy away from something that feels more complicated to them. People who like to mow things down and feel the center of everything are going to feel a bit marginalized in the new system. People who dislike grouping are going to feel left out of the real meat of the system.

    I don't really see how much of this could have been avoided. The larger battles in the latter sections of the story are not suited to the traditional raid format. Like it or not, those battles needed a new approach. New mechanics mean a learning curve; there's no getting around it. The story has always been focused on the fellowship, we are not, have never been and never will be at the center of that. Large battles require more people to fight them.

    I do feel the one element that is missing is a deeper reason for us to be invested in that system. The mistake Turbine made - I'm not sure if it was due to time or what - was in failing to connect the new battles system, medals, promotions and stuff like that to the rest of the game. What we do in Big Battles stays in Big Battles, and therefore there is less incentive for players to really grind them and get good at them. Now, if there was a means for us to show off our medals, if there were difficult to achieve deeds and titles and shinier prizes for bigger challenges or regular play, if there were some special, epic feeling reputation faction, then I think people would have been sucked in more.

    Ultimately there needs to be a pay-off that is proportionate to the amount of effort someone must make to master that content, and right now that payoff is nonexistent. If they'd just given players a few goals, they'd feel like they have a lot more direction and purpose within the current expansion and moving forward. The rewards that do exist - the medals and specialization ranks - only matter within the Big Battle system. They are totally irrelevant to regular day-to-day gameplay and socialization.

    1. They need to give us a Big Battles tab so that when we are inspected, people can see what rank we are at in which specialization, which medals we have, etc.
    2. They need to create deeds that reward rare prizes and titles so that there's more incentive to really get into Big Battles, and something for us to show off.
    3. They need to think of ways in which players can benefit from investing in the Big Battles system for the long haul - goals and achievables that matter outside of Big Battles, not just within that system.


    I don't think it is the system that failed to grab people, it's the incentive, goals and integration with the game outside of that system that failed.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I don't think it is the system that failed to grab people, it's the incentive, goals and integration with the game outside of that system that failed.
    To an extent, this would have helped with the perception of Big Battles. However, I think there are two problems that can't be mitigated by those. The first is the fact that your class- the class you have played since lvl 1- doesn't matter at all in Big Battles. As much fun as using the catapult is, I didn't play this game to be an Engineer in side content, I played it to be a Champion, and Big Battles makes my choice to be a Champion irrelevant. Then to top it off, if I play them as a Hunter or Minstrel or other class, it is the exact same experience as playing on my Champ- class doesn't matter, just lob some catapult shots at the enemy, throw up some barricades and the NPCs can do the rest.

    Secondly, they were not ready for release- too buggy and needed more polish. This left a sour taste in many people's mouths. Related to the bugs is the fact that the more you do to help out (catapults, DPS, traps) the NPCs, the MORE likely you are to fail the side quests and do poorly. It is asinine that by using catapults for more than a shot or two will cause the waves to end so quickly that you won't have a chance to do the side quests. It was terrible design, and a terrible design that was pointed out in Beta and nothing was done to adjust the design.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Ultimately there needs to be a pay-off that is proportionate to the amount of effort someone must make to master that content, and right now that payoff is nonexistent. If they'd just given players a few goals, they'd feel like they have a lot more direction and purpose within the current expansion and moving forward. The rewards that do exist - the medals and specialization ranks - only matter within the Big Battle system. They are totally irrelevant to regular day-to-day gameplay and socialization.

    1. They need to give us a Big Battles tab so that when we are inspected, people can see what rank we are at in which specialization, which medals we have, etc.
    2. They need to create deeds that reward rare prizes and titles so that there's more incentive to really get into Big Battles, and something for us to show off.
    3. They need to think of ways in which players can benefit from investing in the Big Battles system for the long haul - goals and achievables that matter outside of Big Battles, not just within that system.


    I don't think it is the system that failed to grab people, it's the incentive, goals and integration with the game outside of that system that failed.
    I disagree - the system itself failed to grab me. I'll go farther and say I despise it. Clicking and moving barricades doesn't have anything to do with basically any character mechanic,it renders my specific class unnecessary. Firing catapults? Nope, never liked that in Thangulhad either, but at least there I somewhat understood it in larger group runs. Trying to be in 2 places at once in a solo BB? Not fun. Ridiculous. Idiotic. I have more words for that, just usually screamed at my monitor in frustration and dislike.

    I will happily go die in a 12 man raid trying to learn strats, keep other players alive, work together and feel an important part of the instance. We will achieve success as a raid team and in the end we will triumph even over T2c. Big Battle? Not so epic. And regardless of what we do the end is already written. We make no difference.

    * Inspect through a Big Battle tab to show off the fact you ground out R6? When people already make fun of raiders for being proud of gear they achieved?
    * No deeds please. I did the least amount possible and never want to have to grind these for anything.
    * Again, I don't want to have to run through more Big Battles to gain benefit outside of a Big Battle. I'd rather BBs died an excrutiating boring death, which is what I felt I was doing while running them.

    As for reward commensurate with effort, I believe people called raiders elite for wanting that as well. I believe more effort deserves more reward, but I have been told repeatedly I am wrong for that.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sthrax View Post
    the class you have played since lvl 1- doesn't matter at all in Big Battles.
    This is a valid complaint, for sure. I personally enjoy the new roles and mechanics, but I totally understand why some people find them disappointing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I disagree - the system itself failed to grab me. I'll go farther and say I despise it.
    I understand that. Some people really do hate the new system. But I really feel that people weren't given enough incentive to give it a fair shot. Maybe that wouldn't have changed your opinion, maybe it would have. We'll never know. But I do understand why some people dislike Big Battles. It is somewhat a matter of taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    As for reward commensurate with effort, I believe people called raiders elite for wanting that as well. I believe more effort deserves more reward, but I have been told repeatedly I am wrong for that.
    I don't think that is a hugely prevalent attitude. I do see it in-game and in the forums from time to time, but it's pretty easily dismissed. Haters gonna hate. Best thing to do is just ignore.


    Also, I just wanted to expand a bit on the whole "incentive" thing because I feel it should not be underestimated. A few examples:

    • When Wildermore was first released I discovered, entirely by chance, Floid and Dewitt at the top of a waterfall, and saw that it unlocked a deed to give me the title of "Vagabond." I was excited. The title really suited the particular character I was playing at the time. I travelled to each area the deed mentioned and exhaustively combed the map of each region to complete that deed. It took me hours to do this. When I finally got the title I was so excited and proud. Especially knowing that I must certainly have been one of the first people on my server to get that title.
    • Nimble Black Goat. Steed of Eriador.
    • I had a character for whom the Lord of Streams title was essential. I set aside other in-game activities to grind out that ultra-tedious fishing deed over what seemed like an interminable period, and was happy to do so.
    • Ivar's Helm is an item I need - MUST have. I have every intention of getting it, as difficult as the Ivar's Champion deed will be to complete.

    I know that not everyone enjoys grinding out achievements, but it's been one of the major incentives in this game since day one. One that has been almost entirely lacking within the Big Battles system.
    Last edited by frickinmuck; Feb 10 2014 at 04:31 PM.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I understand that. Some people really do hate the new system. But I really feel that people weren't given enough incentive to give it a fair shot. Maybe that wouldn't have changed your opinion, maybe it would have. We'll never know. But I do understand why some people dislike Big Battles. It is somewhat a matter of taste.
    I'm a R6 Engineer, and I participated in BBs back during beta as well. I've given them a chance. I forced myself to do them until I could succeed at most side quests on most big battles because I feel until you give something a chance you're not able to speak to a system or instance completely. I did these. I did them with teeth gritted, many bad words, and never got past hating them. There were times I focused intently to find the best way, how could I succeed, whatever I could do - and even when I found that I still felt useless and hated it. Sorry - there is not enough incentive in the world to change my opinion. I just don't like them.

    I understand some people do, and I don't mean to say they shouldn't enjoy them. Not everybody has to like what I do. I just wish that Turbine hadn't bet the whole farm on this for Helms Deep because right now I feel like I was short-changed. In fact, even the TP I spent (since I knew what was coming and refused to spend actual dollars) feels almost like a waste. Other than replaying old content for the millionth time I have been given basically nothing.

    And by the way? I finished every deed in HD - every single deed - a couple weeks after I hit 95, because there was nothing else to do. And then I began going to other zones and finishing every single deed, because there was nothing else to do. Guess what? I'm sick to death of deeding on my main because there was nothing else to do. Most of my alts will not level, other than a couple crafters that will never do BBs. They're not going to deed, and I don't like the changes in the classes so I won't be taking them into skirms or instances or raids. I did gear out my captain because the captain mains in my raiding kin have quit (along with a number of others) and we found ourselves with no one to play that role should we do BG or OD. But again, I won't do BBs on here because they are miserable, not even to finish the epic line. I can just go to the skirmish vendor and buy a symbol.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I disagree - the system itself failed to grab me. I'll go farther and say I despise it. Clicking and moving barricades doesn't have anything to do with basically any character mechanic,it renders my specific class unnecessary. Firing catapults? Nope, never liked that in Thangulhad either, but at least there I somewhat understood it in larger group runs. Trying to be in 2 places at once in a solo BB? Not fun. Ridiculous. Idiotic. I have more words for that, just usually screamed at my monitor in frustration and dislike.

    I will happily go die in a 12 man raid trying to learn strats, keep other players alive, work together and feel an important part of the instance. We will achieve success as a raid team and in the end we will triumph even over T2c. Big Battle? Not so epic. And regardless of what we do the end is already written. We make no difference.

    * Inspect through a Big Battle tab to show off the fact you ground out R6? When people already make fun of raiders for being proud of gear they achieved?
    * No deeds please. I did the least amount possible and never want to have to grind these for anything.
    * Again, I don't want to have to run through more Big Battles to gain benefit outside of a Big Battle. I'd rather BBs died an excrutiating boring death, which is what I felt I was doing while running them.

    As for reward commensurate with effort, I believe people called raiders elite for wanting that as well. I believe more effort deserves more reward, but I have been told repeatedly I am wrong for that.

    Yes, I feel the same. I had 8 characters at max level during RoR. I have abandoned all but one of them with HD. BBs are boring to the extent that watching paint dry seems more exciting at this point. My time spent in LOTRO since HD released vs previous expansions at this same point of time after release is down by around 90%.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylleecat View Post
    I'd really like to see all the big battles allow 3 people teams.
    I second this motion. There are instances I would love to play, but cannot because my group consists of three players.

    I also applaud Turbine for taking solo players into account when designing instances. I solo play a lot. Few things are more frustrating than spending a long time working through a quest chain only to be brought to a grinding halt due to a fellowship instance (the Tomb of Elendil leaps to mind).

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Interesting to see your take on the game. Mine is very different. I do feel I see a strong vision, here. The game, after all, has been primarily about bringing the books to life, and regardless of whatever side content we may be given from time to time, the path of the epic story is the central focus. The story from HD on is dominated by massive battles, so something like the Big Battle system was needed to bring that type of content to life in a way that feels truly massive while giving us a role commensurate with our character's place in the story (peripheral but valuable).
    My view is... I suppose... two-fold.

    Either the developers do not have a long-term vision (enough of one to really guide their decisions)... or they do but do not have the willingness to share that vision with us.

    If the former is true... I can see where they might have a vision, but it doesn't really take into account any long-term goals other than the obvious goal of reaching Mordor. And, without a long-term vision, some of the things we got with Helms Deep may have been needed, but the massive changes to the trait system came because the developers finally realized something had to be done about the status quo or risk disaster. To me, that scenario speaks to people who really didn't think long-term from the beginning of the game. Maybe it took a "changing of the guard" (so to speak) for someone to catch onto the potential disaster awaiting them if these changes weren't made as soon as it was feasible.

    If the developers do, indeed, have a long term vision... I really think it would behoove them to reveal enough of their road map so that we can understand where the Helms Deep expansion fits into that vision. Now, I know not everyone would be happy with that vision. I wouldn't expect everyone to be happy. And, I wouldn't expect the developers to necessarily have figured out every detail of how to get where they want to go. I do expect them to be able to explain how Helms Deep fits into the bigger picture. Of course, there is the case that not everyone would accept that level of honesty. But, again, it is simply about letting people see how the puzzle piece fits into the plan.

    Either way, the two new major systems introduced with Helms Deep feels like they are incomplete... and make you ask what the plan is.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    However, as ESO will be VIP-only (at least to begin with) I will be left behind.
    And an expensive VIP-only. $60 to buy it first off (includes one month) and then $15/month sub. No plans announced for a multi-month discount like we have here.

    I think it is short sighted myself to not have a free/premium option. But there are so many defenders of subscription-only that I was surprised. From people who seem to think that a subscription keeps trolls and gold sellers away (which is untrue given history with this game). There are others who seem to take as a matter of faith that going F2P means a game has "failed". They point to Rift or SWTOR as examples, and try to make a direct connection (as in great game before, awful game after, thus F2P is either the cause or the herald). There are even a few who say that they would be willing to pay more than $15 just to show their support for subscription-only. If ESO goes F2P these people will claim it's because it was a failure. Others saying things like "I am so glad there's finallly a subscription-only game out there". Others are actually defending that it keeps out more casual players!

    Almost everyone argues that stores end up always causing you to pay more for a game; that is just wrong but maybe they just don't know about this game, or they just listen to the anti-store crowd and believe it. There really is so much fear and/or hatred for the very concept.

    My gut feel is that the publishers essentially know starting an MMO is a big gamble. Thus with an expensive purchase plus a subscription, you get back profit sooner than later, and if the game dies in a year then they'll be able to recoup more costs.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sthrax View Post
    The first is the fact that your class- the class you have played since lvl 1- doesn't matter at all in Big Battles.
    They do in some cases. In the raid in particular, it is the players who matter for DPS on many of the side quests, as well as healing, debuffing, crowd control (slows really), and so forth. In a full raid there are maybe 2 to 4 people on catapults, for a short period of time only (it's not a good idea to keep them firing the whole time). Definitely on my captain I will be healing and damaging, and on lore master I am mezzing and slowing and debuffing. I did for sure notice that things were harder when I was upleveled than they were when I got to max level with new gear.


    The problem is that they really only have 3 group versions. It would have been nice if say Deeping Wall allowed 1, 3, 6, and 12 person versions of the same thing, rather than just 1 and 12.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    If the developers do, indeed, have a long term vision... I really think it would behoove them to reveal enough of their road map so that we can understand where the Helms Deep expansion fits into that vision.
    If they reveal anything then players will scream and shout whenever that vision changes slightly or is delayed.

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    If they reveal anything then players will scream and shout whenever that vision changes slightly or is delayed.
    I was about to say the same thing. They really are damned if they do and damned if they don't, but at least if they decide to share less information they have the opportunity to under-promise and over-deliver, rather than the reverse, with people constantly complaining and trying to derail all along the way.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Gotta look a little closer. I did not say I'd rather pay monthly. What I said is that I wouldn't keep my sub. If this update goes live there is a 95% chance that I will drop my sub. If I can just get in via TP, then I'd rather do that. The VIP system is getting devalued. Sapience has rumored that VIPs are getting stuff added to their subscription, but hasn't stated what that will be.

    I have no need to stack up TP. I have almost 20k TP (and that's after spending over 2k just a few days ago on more storage and whatnot). That's the whole point. I have TP ready and available, and if the "pass" isn't gonna be an arm and a leg, why keep my sub anymore?
    I still dont understand you. Why do you want to pay monthly? Why are you asking them to not remove vip restrictions? 95% chance you drop ur sub, well thats a good thing for you.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    8,694
    Quote Originally Posted by yafga View Post
    It is accually true that some people spend more Money on a f2p game than a sub game.
    That is their problem, not ours. Some people spend $150,000 on an automobile too. An f2p game designed like LotRO lets you play for much less than $15. I think if you budgeted $5 a month and purchased TP from that you will get the full game (barring pvp freepside). All you'd miss would be cosmetics and fluff and endless consumables. Anyone paying more than $10 a month on TP is not doing this because the game requires it in order to play it as a full player.

    15$ a month isnt alot of Money really, you get regular quality content, less lag and yeah a better Community. Lotro is one example why games shouldnt be f2p. The game has become worse since it became f2p and that is a fact.
    $15 is a not much money if you only play one game. It is a lot of money if you want to keep up with several games at once. But cheap or expensive, it is wasted money if you don't take advantage of what you pay for: thus many players feel locked in so that they must play every day that month if they can. Maybe it's ok if the games let you "pause" your subscription at any time without losing the value from it.

    As for community, I feel the community in LotRO is better than in any other MMO I have played. I'm sorry you don't feel that way, maybe head over to Landroval and check that out.

    The community after F2P did not decline that I saw, except for a few cases in the first month. In general the newcomers were well behaved. Many of them are active in RP activities, are in end game now, and so forth. There are MANY premium players now who I would be sad to see go as they're a positive contribution to the game. It would diminish everything if everyone except active subscribers were around. (actually I've heard someone say that if a game can't survive on only subscribers that it deserves to die, talk about arrogance and elitism!)

    Now maybe some parts of the game after F2P, but you can not prove that it was F2P that is the direct or indirect cause of it. The game got more money after F2P, so it is not a cause of budget tightening. But the logic, you may as well say that the game became worse after Mirkwood expansion, so clearly it's a bad idea to have dark and gloomy zones.

  19. #219
    Q27: Any new instruments?
    A: [NLS] There are currently no new instruments planned.

    ------------


    Violin! Please please please pleaseeeeeee!


    Retired
    Ona -> Confetti - r8 Burglar // Funfetti - r7 Mini (Execution - Gladden)
    Demodex - r8 Warg // Bonana Split - r11 WL(Brandywine)

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyMe View Post
    Q27: Any new instruments?
    A: [NLS] There are currently no new instruments planned.
    ------------


    Violin! Please please please pleaseeeeeee!
    ---

    Read the answer. I made the important part LARGER in case is got mis-read as a "yes" or a "maybe"....
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  21. #221
    It's a corporation. Since the contract was extended to 2017, it's likely that LOTRO is bringing in sufficient $$ for WB to continue to develop it. It's also likely that there is an overall plan of what to do for those additional years.
    However, there is a budget that Turbine gets. Turbine has resources within that budget. It appears that Turbine has more projects than its resources can comfortably complete. Many of those projects are not concerned with LOTRO. It appears that LOTROs piece of the pie has been severely reduced for 2014.

    Project priority setting is a highly political subject in every corporation. Departments affect that by submitting high- or low-ball estimates of what it will take to get the job done. Individual employees affect it by favoring the parts of their jobs that they enjoy and postponing the parts they dislike. Customers affect it by voting with their wallets.

    It appears that the people who specialize in multi-player instances have been diverted away from LOTRO. It appears that the icon-developing department is overwhelmed and understaffed. (Changing a red agate to a green agate and calling it an emerald does not require design work, just programming. Maybe their internal procedures need streamlining).

    LOTRO's dedicated staff is, I'm sure, intent on making the game shine and satisfying the player base. But until LOTRO gets a higher priority within Turbine or WB decides to give Turbine a bigger budget, they are insufficient to keep LOTRO afloat as an all-around popular MMO.

    So, what part of the player base can you afford to ignore in 2014 and hope to entice back later?

  22. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    That is their problem, not ours. Some people spend $150,000 on an automobile too. An f2p game designed like LotRO lets you play for much less than $15. I think if you budgeted $5 a month and purchased TP from that you will get the full game (barring pvp freepside). All you'd miss would be cosmetics and fluff and endless consumables. Anyone paying more than $10 a month on TP is not doing this because the game requires it in order to play it as a full player.


    $15 is a not much money if you only play one game. It is a lot of money if you want to keep up with several games at once. But cheap or expensive, it is wasted money if you don't take advantage of what you pay for: thus many players feel locked in so that they must play every day that month if they can. Maybe it's ok if the games let you "pause" your subscription at any time without losing the value from it.

    As for community, I feel the community in LotRO is better than in any other MMO I have played. I'm sorry you don't feel that way, maybe head over to Landroval and check that out.

    The community after F2P did not decline that I saw, except for a few cases in the first month. In general the newcomers were well behaved. Many of them are active in RP activities, are in end game now, and so forth. There are MANY premium players now who I would be sad to see go as they're a positive contribution to the game. It would diminish everything if everyone except active subscribers were around. (actually I've heard someone say that if a game can't survive on only subscribers that it deserves to die, talk about arrogance and elitism!)

    Now maybe some parts of the game after F2P, but you can not prove that it was F2P that is the direct or indirect cause of it. The game got more money after F2P, so it is not a cause of budget tightening. But the logic, you may as well say that the game became worse after Mirkwood expansion, so clearly it's a bad idea to have dark and gloomy zones.
    Well name one mmo that has become f2p that didnt make the game worse.

  23. #223
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    2 Waterbank Road, Eryn Lelryn, Falathlorn Homesteads
    Posts
    1,875
    Quote Originally Posted by yafga View Post
    Well name one mmo that has become f2p that didnt make the game worse.
    Depends on your definition of "worse". If the game being dead and shutdown because it didn't go F2P isn't the "worst" I dunno.
    Tarphindiel~Hu~100, Tolella~Mi~86, Ryeberry~Gu~80, Torfrik~Rk~80, Arindis~Be~60
    Meleras~Wd~50, Minethril~Ca~49, Diorwen~Ch~44, Indiria~Lm~38, Alanda~Bu~32
    And Fourteen Other Alts
    Founder of Gladden's "The Fellowship of the Ping"

  24. #224
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    4,953
    Quote Originally Posted by yafga View Post
    I still dont understand you. Why do you want to pay monthly? Why are you asking them to not remove vip restrictions? 95% chance you drop ur sub, well thats a good thing for you.
    Sorry, I just don't know how I can explain it any better. It's not about me, it's about them. If they implement the passes, then they'll lose my sub (95% sure of that). If they lose my sub, they lose my money. I already have 20k TP. It'll be a long time before I would have to buy TP again. They are devaluing their VIP system. That, to me, is shooting themselves in the foot. And anything that shoots them in the foot is potentially a bad thing in the long run.

    Ticking off the loyal subscribers to the point where they drop their sub is never a good thing.
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 100 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/100 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
    R9 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  25. #225
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    327
    Helm's Deep was about as exciting and Mounted Combat.

    Thanks Turbine.


 

 
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