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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Sorry, I just don't know how I can explain it any better. It's not about me, it's about them. If they implement the passes, then they'll lose my sub (95% sure of that). If they lose my sub, they lose my money. I already have 20k TP. It'll be a long time before I would have to buy TP again. They are devaluing their VIP system. That, to me, is shooting themselves in the foot. And anything that shoots them in the foot is potentially a bad thing in the long run.

    Ticking off the loyal subscribers to the point where they drop their sub is never a good thing.
    Take into account, you're basing this off current VIP perks. They've already stated they have plans to make being a VIP more meaningful. There may be some pretty sweet incentives to being VIP if/when Moor's Passes are introduced.
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  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    I was about to say the same thing. They really are damned if they do and damned if they don't, but at least if they decide to share less information they have the opportunity to under-promise and over-deliver, rather than the reverse, with people constantly complaining and trying to derail all along the way.
    To me, there is a way to reveal what their long term vision is without necessarily revealing specific details or promising anything. What the developers could do is reveal enough of their vision to show how recent (or future) changes fit into that vision.

    For my part, I think I've been able to "figure out" what that vision might be with some aspects of the game. But, it does seem to me that some of the recent changes we got maybe weren't thought out completely in terms of everything else that would be affected. Or, if they did know where all the dominoes would fall, the developers did not (IMHO) do an adequate job explaining what we could expect out of the process.

    Let's take the new trait system... I think that if they had explained... "Look this is a big change to the game that is going to take x-amount of estimated time to really adjust every aspect of the game to compensate for these changes to the classes."
    That (IMHO) would have been enough notice that a little patience would be in order as all of the related stuff gets adjusted.

    And, honestly, there does seem to be a host of issues the developers seem to be dragging their feet on addressing... if they addressed some of these issues, I think people might be a little more lenient on the "no instances planned for 2014" part.
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  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by yafga View Post
    Well name one mmo that has become f2p that didnt make the game worse.
    Rift has an absolutely incredible F2P system. Though, that is the only MMO I can think of that I actually like the model and don't feel like I'm being hit with annoying store prompts and/or pay gates. I sometimes wonder how Rift does it since you truly can play like anyone else without paying a cent. There aren't any restrictions I can think of.

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Take into account, you're basing this off current VIP perks. They've already stated they have plans to make being a VIP more meaningful. There may be some pretty sweet incentives to being VIP if/when Moor's Passes are introduced.
    I'm still waiting for the Destiny Points reward changes to be implemented for VIP. We were told a couple years ago this would be revamped and something done for VIP when the destiny point system was announced as being discontinued. I don't recall seeing anything that replaced it or even recent discussion. Destiny was taken out of deeds, quests, moors, and now it's reduced to 200 dp only when a character gains a level. People used to gaining destiny points to use for perks were dismayed but were told by Turbine they were working on a system to replace this. I'm still waiting for that, so forgive me if I have little faith in new VIP incentives.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  5. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I'm still waiting for the Destiny Points reward changes to be implemented for VIP. We were told a couple years ago this would be revamped and something done for VIP when the destiny point system was announced as being discontinued. I don't recall seeing anything that replaced it or even recent discussion. Destiny was taken out of deeds, quests, moors, and now it's reduced to 200 dp only when a character gains a level. People used to gaining destiny points to use for perks were dismayed but were told by Turbine they were working on a system to replace this. I'm still waiting for that, so forgive me if I have little faith in new VIP incentives.
    Beanie, are dp still being issued? I thought that was something done away with some time ago...?

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    Let's take the new trait system... I think that if they had explained... "Look this is a big change to the game that is going to take x-amount of estimated time to really adjust every aspect of the game to compensate for these changes to the classes."
    That (IMHO) would have been enough notice that a little patience would be in order as all of the related stuff gets adjusted.
    Well, ignoring the fact that common sense would tell anyone that an entirely new class/skill system would take time to balance, there has been plenty of discussion of balance through the various updates and Q/A sessions. Not sure how you could get the impression they're being tight-lipped about it, unless you're talking timeline, which, no one on their right mind would attempt to put a timeframe on anything in this community. That is just asking for uproar. Besides, as Sapience said just last week, balance is an ongoing thing that is never really "done." They are constantly looking at balance and making adjustments as needed. That will never end, and shouldn't.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterio2 View Post
    Beanie, are dp still being issued? I thought that was something done away with some time ago...?
    You still get 200 dp upon leveling. Having run up a new character as an experiment, this was one of the things I noticed. This is the only way to still earn dp though.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Take into account, you're basing this off current VIP perks. They've already stated they have plans to make being a VIP more meaningful. There may be some pretty sweet incentives to being VIP if/when Moor's Passes are introduced.

    The only concrete thing I've heard from the company about making VIP more 'meaningful' is the ability to rent the new content updates in 2014. In other words, nothing new. I asked this question
    Are VIP perks slated for an overhaul - for example free respecs, bonus trait tree, more fluff - to make it more attractive?
    in the 20 questions thread, and I see no answer to that or anything similar posted here.

    Re: destiny points. I still have 72k of these, you do get 200 on level-up as Beanie said, and you can still spend them on boosts or what-not, as long as you're ViP. Long overdue for overhaul.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by yafga View Post
    Well name one mmo that has become f2p that didnt make the game worse.
    This one?

    Sure you could say that it is worse now, but you have no direct link between F2P and the declines or tarnishes that you dislike. Then think of all those MMOs that became worse even though they did not go F2P. You are taking it as a fact that F2P makes things worse without offering any evidence.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    If they lose my sub, they lose my money. I already have 20k TP. It'll be a long time before I would have to buy TP again. They are devaluing their VIP system.
    So you're worried about it bothering Turbine even though it would be a good thing for you.

    This reminds me of the arguments about why lifetime accounts were so bad, or how lifetime sub holders are freeloaders and Turbine is losing so much money on them, etc. But those accounts were a net gain for Turbine, even after all these years. Experienced players who are still in the game are valuable, even if not paying anything directly for a particular month. It makes the game feel busier than otherwise (people leave when the population goes down, or when there's no one around in their zones, etc).

    The fact that you kept subscribing and thus earning those points proves that you have been PAYING. This doesn't make you a freeloader if you unsub and start living off of accumulated TP.

    And if Turbine does provide such a system this is not because they have kindergarteners running the accounting office, instead have some trust that they've had professionals check over the numbers and have decided that it will work out.

  11. #236

    Draigoch needs to be fixed.

    I have asked this question of Sapience during his live streams several times and have not received an answer. Therefore I am asking the question here.

    Will Draigoch ever be truly fixed? In the last few weeks we have tried to run Draigoch with no success. Each time the instance would bug. There are too many rules in play to keep the instance from bugging out like, no LM pets, no stuns, no cloaks, no in combat rez, no this , no that. So, once again, will Draigoch ever truly be fixed?
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  12. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    You still get 200 dp upon leveling. Having run up a new character as an experiment, this was one of the things I noticed. This is the only way to still earn dp though.
    Well, thanks, that's a pleasant surprise. I haven't really been paying attention to dp, since my main is level capped. Guess I'll pay more attention to it on my alts.

  13. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Daeranoth View Post
    I have asked this question of Sapience during his live streams several times and have not received an answer. Therefore I am asking the question here.

    Will Draigoch ever be truly fixed? In the last few weeks we have tried to run Draigoch with no success. Each time the instance would bug. There are too many rules in play to keep the instance from bugging out like, no LM pets, no stuns, no cloaks, no in combat rez, no this , no that. So, once again, will Draigoch ever truly be fixed?
    I have the distinct feeling the answer to that is no. After all this time, if there was a fix, it would have been done. I have the feeling that what they tried to do with Draigoch was more than the game engine could reliably handle and as a result there are fundamental flaws that are beyond fixing within the available framework and resources.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalLethality View Post
    Take into account, you're basing this off current VIP perks. They've already stated they have plans to make being a VIP more meaningful. There may be some pretty sweet incentives to being VIP if/when Moor's Passes are introduced.
    Precisely. 95% sure I'll drop my sub, but the above reason counts for 4.9% for why I may keep my sub. The other .1% is merely for bragging rights (such as they are xD). And if those incentives are merely more free quest packs (akin to Wildermore, Great River, etc) then it's not gonna be enough. And while I personally don't know about destiny points, Beanie does make a good point. Until Turbine delivers on their word, I'm not overly optimistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohi View Post
    So you're worried about it bothering Turbine even though it would be a good thing for you.

    This reminds me of the arguments about why lifetime accounts were so bad, or how lifetime sub holders are freeloaders and Turbine is losing so much money on them, etc. But those accounts were a net gain for Turbine, even after all these years. Experienced players who are still in the game are valuable, even if not paying anything directly for a particular month. It makes the game feel busier than otherwise (people leave when the population goes down, or when there's no one around in their zones, etc).

    The fact that you kept subscribing and thus earning those points proves that you have been PAYING. This doesn't make you a freeloader if you unsub and start living off of accumulated TP.

    And if Turbine does provide such a system this is not because they have kindergarteners running the accounting office, instead have some trust that they've had professionals check over the numbers and have decided that it will work out.
    As I said, anything that shoots Turbine in the foot is not good for the game overall. I've never seen or even heard of an MMO that was completely f2p (as in, no VIP system, or at least no VIP system that was worth a second glance) that was successful or big. Perhaps there is one out there, but so far all I've seen are a lot of MMOs that involve some form of payment for the best of what's available (extra perks), be it right from the get-go, or over the long-term via VIP.

    I guess the question is: Does Turbine want my subscription $$$? Or is it not really that valuable to them? And that question goes for every VIPer out there. If they want our subscriptions, then they'll need to make sure they are keeping those subscriptions worth the cost. Taking away the exclusiveness of freepside Moors is a perfect way to do the exact opposite. Now, if our subs really aren't that important to them, then fine. I've been Premium before, and I can be Premium again. *shrug*
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  15. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    Precisely. 95% sure I'll drop my sub, but the above reason counts for 4.9% for why I may keep my sub. The other .1% is merely for bragging rights (such as they are xD). And if those incentives are merely more free quest packs (akin to Wildermore, Great River, etc) then it's not gonna be enough. And while I personally don't know about destiny points, Beanie does make a good point. Until Turbine delivers on their word, I'm not overly optimistic.



    As I said, anything that shoots Turbine in the foot is not good for the game overall. I've never seen or even heard of an MMO that was completely f2p (as in, no VIP system, or at least no VIP system that was worth a second glance) that was successful or big. Perhaps there is one out there, but so far all I've seen are a lot of MMOs that involve some form of payment for the best of what's available (extra perks), be it right from the get-go, or over the long-term via VIP.

    I guess the question is: Does Turbine want my subscription $$$? Or is it not really that valuable to them? And that question goes for every VIPer out there. If they want our subscriptions, then they'll need to make sure they are keeping those subscriptions worth the cost. Taking away the exclusiveness of freepside Moors is a perfect way to do the exact opposite. Now, if our subs really aren't that important to them, then fine. I've been Premium before, and I can be Premium again. *shrug*
    But.. but.. but...

    ViP are getting 4 new zones this year for free!
    Honestly, hanging onto people with the promise of free content in the future is like a the bad cheeseburger skit with Wimpy from Popeye.
    "I'll gladly pay you tomorrow for that cheeseburger today"

    By the way.. Has anyone heard what the first new zone is and when it will be released? Quarterly means every three months and March is 2 weeks away. Will this one be Fangorn, pathways or the dead mashes or Gondor?
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  16. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post
    Well, ignoring the fact that common sense would tell anyone that an entirely new class/skill system would take time to balance, there has been plenty of discussion of balance through the various updates and Q/A sessions. Not sure how you could get the impression they're being tight-lipped about it, unless you're talking timeline, which, no one on their right mind would attempt to put a timeframe on anything in this community. That is just asking for uproar. Besides, as Sapience said just last week, balance is an ongoing thing that is never really "done." They are constantly looking at balance and making adjustments as needed. That will never end, and shouldn't.
    I will copy over what I said in another thread...

    What I am looking for is what the developers either don't seem to have... or they have not communicated it well enough. Namely, I am looking for that long term vision that lets me know that they have at least some idea of a roadmap.

    Let's look at what has happened with the last 2 expansions (RoR and HD)...

    You could say that RoR was a typical expansion. It had new content (expansion of the story line). It had an associated "instance cluster" in the form of "Road to Erebor" even though it came out a few months after RoR. Everything about RoR was pretty typical. The introduction of Hytbold was about the biggest change we got.

    Now, all of a sudden, with HD we got massive class changes... no real prior indication that the developers were looking at even doing a revamp of the classes. You could argue that people always want class changes... but prior to March 2013 there was no indication the developers were going to get serious about [starting to] revamp the entire trait system.
    We also got a new type of "raid" mechanic called "Big Battles" with the HD expansion. We get this new mechanic after several years of pretty much not doing anything new. The last "new" mechanic for raids was skirmishes... and that was how many years ago? Again, we get a significant new mechanic without any indication that they were looking at adding an additional type of "raid" to the game.

    In both cases, the developers could have spoken up and told us "Hey, we are going to get serious about some class changes and we are working on introducing a new type of raid/instance to the game."

    That would have indicated that they, indeed, had been thinking about all of this stuff long before the details are announced... long before Kate Paiz released the info about HD in March 2013.

    But, all of a sudden, March 2013 comes along and the developers announce these massive changes... which begs the question... Shouldn't the class changes [at least] have been something that was in the works long before the announcement was made? Was this a decision they just decided to make now... or did they know the changes had to be made but just needed to find the right time to make them?

    Now, in both cases, I can look at both of these big changes and (I think) I can see the potential brought about by those changes. I just wish the developers would make more effort to indicate that they are thinking "long term"...


    You don't need to give away a "timeline" to let people know you have long term plans.
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  17. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    I will copy over what I said in another thread...

    What I am looking for is what the developers either don't seem to have... or they have not communicated it well enough. Namely, I am looking for that long term vision that lets me know that they have at least some idea of a roadmap.

    Let's look at what has happened with the last 2 expansions (RoR and HD)...

    You could say that RoR was a typical expansion. It had new content (expansion of the story line). It had an associated "instance cluster" in the form of "Road to Erebor" even though it came out a few months after RoR. Everything about RoR was pretty typical. The introduction of Hytbold was about the biggest change we got.

    Now, all of a sudden, with HD we got massive class changes... no real prior indication that the developers were looking at even doing a revamp of the classes. You could argue that people always want class changes... but prior to March 2013 there was no indication the developers were going to get serious about [starting to] revamp the entire trait system.
    We also got a new type of "raid" mechanic called "Big Battles" with the HD expansion. We get this new mechanic after several years of pretty much not doing anything new. The last "new" mechanic for raids was skirmishes... and that was how many years ago? Again, we get a significant new mechanic without any indication that they were looking at adding an additional type of "raid" to the game.

    In both cases, the developers could have spoken up and told us "Hey, we are going to get serious about some class changes and we are working on introducing a new type of raid/instance to the game."

    That would have indicated that they, indeed, had been thinking about all of this stuff long before the details are announced... long before Kate Paiz released the info about HD in March 2013.

    But, all of a sudden, March 2013 comes along and the developers announce these massive changes... which begs the question... Shouldn't the class changes [at least] have been something that was in the works long before the announcement was made? Was this a decision they just decided to make now... or did they know the changes had to be made but just needed to find the right time to make them?

    Now, in both cases, I can look at both of these big changes and (I think) I can see the potential brought about by those changes. I just wish the developers would make more effort to indicate that they are thinking "long term"...


    You don't need to give away a "timeline" to let people know you have long term plans.

    And exactly how much lead time do you think you need to have before they "announce" a change? Generally companies announce stuff when it is "ready to ship" and not in some "theoretical state". I don't know of many companies that announce too far in advance.

    What you are saying is that you didn't have enough time to "evaluate" the changes.

    Even if you had prefect information X months/years ahead would that make a difference? And what happens if the information becomes stale and a change happens in the interim - your informational lead time means nothing until it's "boots on the ground".

    Think of all the smartphones in the world. They announce just before the winter holidays (in the US) and it goes on sale in time for them. You can read all the reviews you want about the item but the early reviews are often stale information by shipping time. And even if you kick-the-tires on them before you buy, you will find "something" doesn't quite work as expected or as advertised.

    So what you are also saying is that changes that could be anticipated given historical reference, should not be made because they make they didn't give you enough lead time to evaluate the change. Changes that happen because well, stuff happens, should not be made because your information is incomplete. Changes in design, execution and features cannot be made because your information is not "perfect".

    Perfect Information is not really available in a dynamic environment.

    The long-term plans are there. They have been stated many times. It's the answers that are not acceptable to some and so they think the answers are not there. They are there. The answers and information are given when they can be given. They mean "exactly" what they say. It's the interpretation that gets distorted. There is no interpretation needed.
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  18. #243
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    They sent this out January 31, so there's at least one indication prior to March.


    "Class Adjustments – Later in the year, we will be making some significant changes to the skills and traits of the Free Peoples classes. We’ll be pruning out skills that just feel disappointing in play and increasing the potency of others. The end result will be fewer skills, but a more profound impact on moment-to-moment play. How you choose to specialize your class will make a real difference!"


    I have to admit I wasn't expecting that dramatic of a change, but I appreciate there was at least some (10 months?) heads up.

  19. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien View Post
    And exactly how much lead time do you think you need to have before they "announce" a change? Generally companies announce stuff when it is "ready to ship" and not in some "theoretical state". I don't know of many companies that announce too far in advance.

    What you are saying is that you didn't have enough time to "evaluate" the changes.

    Even if you had prefect information X months/years ahead would that make a difference? And what happens if the information becomes stale and a change happens in the interim - your informational lead time means nothing until it's "boots on the ground".

    Think of all the smartphones in the world. They announce just before the winter holidays (in the US) and it goes on sale in time for them. You can read all the reviews you want about the item but the early reviews are often stale information by shipping time. And even if you kick-the-tires on them before you buy, you will find "something" doesn't quite work as expected or as advertised.

    So what you are also saying is that changes that could be anticipated given historical reference, should not be made because they make they didn't give you enough lead time to evaluate the change. Changes that happen because well, stuff happens, should not be made because your information is incomplete. Changes in design, execution and features cannot be made because your information is not "perfect".

    Perfect Information is not really available in a dynamic environment.

    The long-term plans are there. They have been stated many times. It's the answers that are not acceptable to some and so they think the answers are not there. They are there. The answers and information are given when they can be given. They mean "exactly" what they say. It's the interpretation that gets distorted. There is no interpretation needed.
    That is not at all what I mean. Though... I would have been in favor of extending the time in which a change as massive as the class changes was Beta tested. I agree with the changes, but I think (IMHO) pushing the release date back just a little bit might have been wise.

    That being said... I am not at all discussing "evaluation" time. That is a completely different subject and I am not sure how you arrived at that from what I said.

    The analogy you used works for "evaluating" things... but I think there is a different analogy that works better to convey what I mean.

    The analogy that comes to mind is the "reboot" of the Superman movies. Long before any previews or any details were announced, it was made known that a "reboot" of the franchise was in the works. It let the fans know "we are looking to do this. we will announce details as we have them ironed out." I don't remember if they initially announced a "release date" but IIRC the release date wasn't announced until later in the process (could be wrong... going off memory as best I can). Long term plan was announced while still giving plenty of time to work out the details without the pressure of having announced a release date.

    In the same way, I think it would have been a lot smarter for Turbine to have given us a lot more "lead time" with respect to such a massive change. While I can't speak for everyone, I think it would have been sufficient for them to say "We are giving serious thought to revamping the classes... we are still fleshing out the details... including when the best time will be to implement any changes we decide on." And, I think they could have gone into greater detail as to *why* the developers believed the class changes were needed... even given hints that the class changes were part of a greater plan.
    That would have indicated that they were thinking far enough out... and I think that might have gone a long way in winning over critics to the [necessity of the] class changes.

    Again, that does not mean they have to give time-tables or any such details that puts them in a box. In fact, with such a massive change to the game, I would expect them *not* to give a specific timeline because of how much impact those changes would have on everything in the game.
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  20. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by SabrielofLorien View Post
    The long-term plans are there. They have been stated many times. It's the answers that are not acceptable to some and so they think the answers are not there. They are there. The answers and information are given when they can be given. They mean "exactly" what they say. It's the interpretation that gets distorted. There is no interpretation needed.
    Thank you, this is exactly what I was going to say. Just because an answer doesn't appeal to you, doesn't mean it's not an answer. For example, they've been REALLY clear for AGES that there will be no raids coming for awhile, and why. People still keep asking, still keep flogging the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmyrSelyf View Post
    They sent thisout January 31, so there's at least one indication prior to March.

    "Class Adjustments – Later in the year, we will be making some significant changes to the skills and traits of the Free Peoples classes. We’ll be pruning out skills that just feel disappointing in play and increasing the potency of others. The end result will be fewer skills, but a more profound impact on moment-to-moment play. How you choose to specialize your class will make a real difference!"
    Exactly. Just because someone didn't hear the initial talk, doesn't mean it didn't happen. For example, "no new raids coming" was said in March of last year. People acted blindsided when it was mentioned again more recently, as though Turbine had dropped a bomb with no warning.

  21. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by frickinmuck View Post

    Exactly. Just because someone didn't hear the initial talk, doesn't mean it didn't happen. For example, "no new raids coming" was said in March of last year. People acted blindsided when it was mentioned again more recently, as though Turbine had dropped a bomb with no warning.
    I don't think it was that. I think many people were hoping that it was a cruel joke, or a distraction, or that maybe they changed their minds. You may get tired of the reiteration of the question but usually those people are tired of the answer! After all unless there is noise results rarely happen. And promises (for what ever reason: good or bad) have been broken many times. So I would rather people keep the issue in the forefront and maybe someone will finally realize that many people actually want this to happen.

    There are many examples of this. The changes in mail has been asked for since I started. Housing enhancements have always been at the front line of what players want. Moors changes is the same way. But do you think that if no one complained/suggested/asked/nagged about housing changes that Turbine would have spent the money and resources to do it?
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  22. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by EmyrSelyf View Post
    They sent this out January 31, so there's at least one indication prior to March.


    "Class Adjustments – Later in the year, we will be making some significant changes to the skills and traits of the Free Peoples classes. We’ll be pruning out skills that just feel disappointing in play and increasing the potency of others. The end result will be fewer skills, but a more profound impact on moment-to-moment play. How you choose to specialize your class will make a real difference!"


    I have to admit I wasn't expecting that dramatic of a change, but I appreciate there was at least some (10 months?) heads up.
    This is true but they never mentioned the migration to a skill tree. They never mentioned that the classes would be forced to be alike depending on what role you wanted. (In fact we were lead to believe that we would have more customization and less homogenized classes). The result was hybrid classes and freedom of choice was severely limited. Skills that certain classes used for years were now locked down a certain tree (freaking Rain of Thorns!). So I don't think the majority of people were ready for the huge changes. Maybe the devs knew that if they gave out that much info early that there would be a revolt. Now we are forced to accept it or leave.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  23. #248
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Posts
    3,090
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    I don't think it was that. I think many people were hoping that it was a cruel joke, or a distraction, or that maybe they changed their minds. You may get tired of the reiteration of the question but usually those people are tired of the answer! After all unless there is noise results rarely happen. And promises (for what ever reason: good or bad) have been broken many times. So I would rather people keep the issue in the forefront and maybe someone will finally realize that many people actually want this to happen.

    There are many examples of this. The changes in mail has been asked for since I started. Housing enhancements have always been at the front line of what players want. Moors changes is the same way. But do you think that if no one complained/suggested/asked/nagged about housing changes that Turbine would have spent the money and resources to do it?
    Yeah, I'm not saying people should stop rallying for the content they want, rather that they should stop pretending Turbine hasn't given them the answer to their questions. It's one thing to say, "I don't like that answer, and I am going to advocate for more raids" and another thing entirely to keep asking if new raids are coming, and saying, "Turbine won't give us a clear picture on what's happening with raids."

  24. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    This is true but they never mentioned the migration to a skill tree. They never mentioned that the classes would be forced to be alike depending on what role you wanted. (In fact we were lead to believe that we would have more customization and less homogenized classes). The result was hybrid classes and freedom of choice was severely limited. Skills that certain classes used for years were now locked down a certain tree (freaking Rain of Thorns!). So I don't think the majority of people were ready for the huge changes. Maybe the devs knew that if they gave out that much info early that there would be a revolt. Now we are forced to accept it or leave.
    There was information. The extent of the changes was not "understood" because it was so different from what we had. There was no way to partially implement this change and "get it done". It was a shock but the information was given out.

    That the changes did not meet your "expectation" does not mean they were not successful. They do make you select from Hard Choices. You may not like the choices offered but you can select them. If you don't select them that is a game play decision you make within the context of the new functionality.

    Again, it's a matter on "not liking" the answer that's been given. But the answer was there.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  25. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by anthonyx View Post
    I don't think it was that. I think many people were hoping that it was a cruel joke, or a distraction, or that maybe they changed their minds.
    afaik Turbine has never been given out information that was a "cruel joke" just to freak out players*. The Q&A, these questions and others, have all been straight up about the answers. Some of the answers are consistent: raids, pvmp and some other areas. Those answers have not changed.

    Sometimes the wording may have been less than "in your face" about an item but the answer was there. That the answer is not liked or not the one expected leads to misinterpretation of what the meaning of "NO" is.

    Advocating for improvements and changes to the game is fine. It shows passion and interest. Advocating for features that have "no", "No", "NO" responses will not change the response.



    * maybe something for April Fools?
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

 

 
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