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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    This is not a problem for this build. The blue-line build in PvP is intended for only one strategy: spam water-lore. By making use of effects like "Coordination" or "Don't interrupt me", along with the fact that the blue line is the fastest line (barring possibly a Yellow spec that off-specs deep into blue), you can almost guarantee that you will be able to stack enough water-lore that no single creep can possibly kill you. This build puts the induction of water-lore at 0.7s if I remember correctly. Of course, you should have several opportunities to use it without any induction at all. With all this, even the fastest wargs out there won't be able to prevent you from stacking enough water-lore.

    There's also the heal from loyalty, which is very significant. If by any chance you manage to mess up, you still have WotC to save your ###. Other than that, just toss a BE or a LotRD when water-lore is on cooldown, keep SI up, and let your pet DPS. There's no need to hurry; no single creep can out-dps 3 stacks of water-lore. It simply cannot be done.

    Of course, if you don't wish your PvP experience to be just a zombie-like spam of one skill, this isn't the build for you.
    I see what you're saying. I usually switch between red and blue depending on what I feel like using at the time =) With blue I run things to increase my pets health so when I get crit I get healed for quite abit more and run some red for induction reduction and yellow for the extra healing and down to playing with fire and also pick a point in storm lore works decent enough.
    Last edited by deatheluden; Feb 09 2014 at 07:45 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by LEGENDofALL View Post
    While everyone has a different play style Waterlore will save your behind and when used right you wont have to blow WotC in a 1v1 which im shocked was used.
    Yes, everyone plays different. You see in the first video I only use WotC and only one Water-lore at start, then I rely on slows. It works for me.
    Last edited by -Tanyc-; Feb 11 2014 at 06:03 PM.


    Evernight : Tanick R13 Lm ~ Wakkawakka R10 Def
    Morthond : Mandridar R9 Lm ~ Cragstone R9 Wvr

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by deatheluden View Post
    The only problem with blue line is that you rely mainly on sic em to win your 1v1's and after that your dps is pretty lackluster compared to going red and some yellow.
    actually the way I'm set up I still do very nice damage and I've had many 1v1s blue line not using sic em
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    This is not a problem for this build. The blue-line build in PvP is intended for only one strategy: spam water-lore. By making use of effects like "Coordination" or "Don't interrupt me", along with the fact that the blue line is the fastest line (barring possibly a Yellow spec that off-specs deep into blue), you can almost guarantee that you will be able to stack enough water-lore that no single creep can possibly kill you. This build puts the induction of water-lore at 0.7s if I remember correctly. Of course, you should have several opportunities to use it without any induction at all. With all this, even the fastest wargs out there won't be able to prevent you from stacking enough water-lore.

    There's also the heal from loyalty, which is very significant. If by any chance you manage to mess up, you still have WotC to save your ###. Other than that, just toss a BE or a LotRD when water-lore is on cooldown, keep SI up, and let your pet DPS. There's no need to hurry; no single creep can out-dps 3 stacks of water-lore. It simply cannot be done.

    Of course, if you don't wish your PvP experience to be just a zombie-like spam of one skill, this isn't the build for you.
    While a lot of what you say is true you don't need to spam water lore blue line with all the flanks which gives you time to do some damage along with your pet.

    I don't worry about wargs the only class that I'd worry about is reavers
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Tanyc- View Post
    Yes, everyone plays different. You see in the first video I only use WotC and only one Water-lore at start, then I rely on slows. It works for me.
    Now this is the same reaver, same day, same traits but relying on Water-lore.

    All I was saying generally Lms don't use wotc in 1v1s , unless the reavers using wraith
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Tanyc- View Post
    Yes, everyone plays different. You see in the first video I only use WotC and only one Water-lore at start, then I rely on slows. It works for me.
    Now this is the same reaver, same day, same traits but relying on Water-lore.

    Your movement is really bad, you missed BE two times. Also wasting a staff-strike stun on a charging reaver wasn't wise. I stopped watching when you popped WotC.
    Siggy

  7. #32
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    Well, it's meant to be the bad example. Posted it to show what happens when you think Water-lore will help if you don't slow, don't kite, don't Fire-lore.
    Didn't I even write that ? Using WotC doesn't help you either with the second rotation of the reaver. But can you post a video of beating a good reaver without WotC ?


    Evernight : Tanick R13 Lm ~ Wakkawakka R10 Def
    Morthond : Mandridar R9 Lm ~ Cragstone R9 Wvr

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Tanyc- View Post
    Well, it's meant to be the bad example. Posted it to show what happens when you think Water-lore will help if you don't slow, don't kite, don't Fire-lore.
    Didn't I even write that ? Using WotC doesn't help you either with the second rotation of the reaver. But can you post a video of beating a good reaver without WotC ?
    I dont have a video of me beating a very good reaver without using WotC but i have and i wont use it in set up 1v1s. its all about what you use and when you use it and yes fire lore for sure helps with it but tar kiting is the best way to do it.

    Now blue line you really and im being honest , dont have to kite as much.


    Just saying from me i wont use WoTc in a 1v1 id literally have to be getting creamed right from the beginning which has happened yet.
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  9. #34
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    ... just watch numbers - then look what we can do.

    this thread shows two things:

    - those who encounter severe difficulties (however it never was as easy for us squishies anyways)
    - and a lot of bragging.

    Think, its in the nature of PVP to have bragging. It's about who you soloed and who you downed (easily of course, while you are reading a newspaper).

    > So why not go away from it abit and look at plain Numbers? For that- especially small servers are 'quite' obvious and telling. Also a look on the leaderboards helps.

    a) how many LM's are we left in the Moors, especially compared to other classes? ....only guardians are fewer than us.
    Speaking for the two servers i play on, I can count them 'literally' on one hand. A few newbies step by- ... and leave quickly to return with another class.

    b) The few higher ranked LM's existing- did they earn their ranks these days? ... or before?
    All higher ranked LM's i know at least are oldtimers, when we actually 'did' CC.


    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But.... whining is no fun, and dosn't help. So what can we do? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<

    - Larger Moral-Pools, meaning some grinding work for jewellery and relics
    - keyslot your pots (heal/fear(!)/wound/stun)
    - trying out the hints & tipps (like mentioned here in the thread). E.G I will try the yellow-spec one- that I'v not done before
    - Group up! Lets for a while forget our ego and the rank-race and face it: We do better in a small group of ppl that we know (I like duo and 3-mans)

    > and keep in mind- other classes face similar challenges. I also play a defiler- and on date- its both dps and heal-wise a pittyful poor creature ;-)

    * This is my own resumé. Being a gamereturner myself (after a year away and a bit rosty now), I found out myself a lot is changed. Some for the better, some for the worse*

    Greetings to you all, and happy hunting! ;-)

    Elbi

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by -Tanyc- View Post
    Well, it's meant to be the bad example. Posted it to show what happens when you think Water-lore will help if you don't slow, don't kite, don't Fire-lore.
    Didn't I even write that ? Using WotC doesn't help you either with the second rotation of the reaver. But can you post a video of beating a good reaver without WotC ?
    Using water-lore will prevent any single creep from killing a decently-built LM. You didn't spam water-lore as effectively as you could. It was off cooldown a lot and you weren't using it.

    No debuffs? That's dumb. Again, of course someone assumes you will use your skills, especially debuffs with no induction, between water-lores. (SoP:C can even be cast on the move, I see no possible reason why someone wouldn't use it)

    You use percentage morale, so I don't know what your morale is. My guess is it's on the lower end of the spectrum. You didn't pot any wounds, allowing for 4-bleed impales easily. You didn't pot disarm either.

    The use of tar vs melee opponents in 1v1s is considered a fail-move in my server. The fact that you failed to kite a reaver with tar just further proves how terrible you are.

    You cannot excpect anyone to judge the potency of water-lore based on this pathetic performance.

    By your logic, I should use impale without stacking any bleeds, just to show that impale isn't that strong...
    Last edited by Birdflies; Feb 11 2014 at 09:33 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020100004f382b/signature.png]Bloodbad[/charsig]

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LEGENDofALL View Post
    While a lot of what you say is true you don't need to spam water lore blue line with all the flanks which gives you time to do some damage along with your pet.

    I don't worry about wargs the only class that I'd worry about is reavers
    Yeah, I forgot to point out flanks. That makes it even more ridiculous.

    Well wargs can constantly interrupt you water-lore. Reavers have one interrupt skill, on an 8s CD, so even if you get interrupted, water-lore should be back up before Gut Punch (I forget, is it 3 or 4s to use WL again if interrupted?)

    Having said this, I would like to point out the following: Interrupting a 0.7s induction is hard. Interrupting a 0.7s induction on a melee class is harder. Interrupting a 0.7s induction on a melee class vs a ranged class is extremely hard. Finally, interrupting a 0.7s induction on a melee class vs a ranged class that has as much CC as LM, is practically impossible. And if you actually manage to do it...he can do it again in a few secs
    Last edited by Birdflies; Feb 11 2014 at 11:21 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020100004f382b/signature.png]Bloodbad[/charsig]

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    Using water-lore will prevent any single creep from killing a decently-built LM. You didn't spam water-lore as effectively as you could. It was off cooldown a lot and you weren't using it.

    No debuffs? That's dumb. Again, of course someone assumes you will use your skills, especially debuffs with no induction, between water-lores. (SoP:C can even be cast on the move, I see no possible reason why someone wouldn't use it)

    You use percentage morale, so I don't know what your morale is. My guess is it's on the lower end of the spectrum. You didn't pot any wounds, allowing for 4-bleed impales easily. You didn't pot disarm either.

    The use of tar vs melee opponents in 1v1s is considered a fail-move in my server. The fact that you failed to kite a reaver with tar just further proves how terrible you are.

    You cannot excpect anyone to judge the potency of water-lore based on this pathetic performance.

    By your logic, I should use impale without stacking any bleeds, just to show that impale isn't that strong...
    I love how people jump in a discussion on page2 of a thread without reading page1. Justtried to point out that slows, debuffs and high morale is more effective than spamming water-lore. But yes, I'll just remove this misinterpreted video and agree with you.

    Using water-lore will prevent any single creep from killing a decently-built LM. You are right !!


    Evernight : Tanick R13 Lm ~ Wakkawakka R10 Def
    Morthond : Mandridar R9 Lm ~ Cragstone R9 Wvr

  13. #38
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    not working for us...

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdflies View Post
    This is not a problem for this build. The blue-line build in PvP is intended for only one strategy: spam water-lore. By making use of effects like "Coordination" or "Don't interrupt me", along with the fact that the blue line is the fastest line (barring possibly a Yellow spec that off-specs deep into blue), you can almost guarantee that you will be able to stack enough water-lore that no single creep can possibly kill you. This build puts the induction of water-lore at 0.7s if I remember correctly. Of course, you should have several opportunities to use it without any induction at all. With all this, even the fastest wargs out there won't be able to prevent you from stacking enough water-lore.

    There's also the heal from loyalty, which is very significant. If by any chance you manage to mess up, you still have WotC to save your ###. Other than that, just toss a BE or a LotRD when water-lore is on cooldown, keep SI up, and let your pet DPS. There's no need to hurry; no single creep can out-dps 3 stacks of water-lore. It simply cannot be done.

    Of course, if you don't wish your PvP experience to be just a zombie-like spam of one skill, this isn't the build for you.

    As mentioned prior, as game returner from 1 year break, quite a lot has changed.
    So i happy took some advices, among others yours, and tried them.

    Groups:
    Stacking moral, going speced yellow (for lore, root) and red (lightning) and 4 yellow Moors-set for silence, i do very fine.
    My moral is at about 21-22k, with 52k tac mastey and about 15k finesse. So that all werked for me nicely, thnx for the tipps.

    Solo:
    Most classes i do quite ok with 1vs1 while spec blue. Coordination, WaterLore, loyalty, SicEm works ok. Some fights i win, some fights I loose.
    HOWEVER.... the exceptions are Wargs & Reavers (which are the WASTE majority of creeps these days) from my own rank upwards.
    In case they '.. actually know what they are doing...' then they are MUCH faster in interrupting me, than what CtV or parable, or coordination can help me.
    The few times, i actually did defeat them was- when they did mistakes in their rotation, or interruption.
    Some say its the macroing thing, i dont know. But played my LM since 4 years- and i never done so bad against those two.

    Having said this, I do live a little longer in yellow (root and improved heals and debuffs), but also i damage them much less. So solo i still do a bit better in blue.

    Ergo Summarum:
    Wargs and Reavers together are de facto 80% (or more!) of our Server (guess that equals the percentage of Wardens, Minis and Cappys freepside). Thats also an indicator what classes do best now. The wargs, i rarely meet solo, mostly they are in pack (at least so when they attack).

    We are perhaps 3 LM's left in the Moors, playing at least SOMEWHAT regularily, except for a newbie visit here and there. Thats not a good indicator.
    But we do show our value in groups (especially the War-Leader-Silence and the root with its grace is much appreciated).
    I guess thats what our class also is originally designed for- to support!

    Have fun guys, and happy hunting to you

    /Elbi

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElenEstel View Post
    As mentioned prior, as game returner from 1 year break, quite a lot has changed.
    So i happy took some advices, among others yours, and tried them.

    Groups:
    Stacking moral, going speced yellow (for lore, root) and red (lightning) and 4 yellow Moors-set for silence, i do very fine.
    My moral is at about 21-22k, with 52k tac mastey and about 15k finesse. So that all werked for me nicely, thnx for the tipps.

    Solo:
    Most classes i do quite ok with 1vs1 while spec blue. Coordination, WaterLore, loyalty, SicEm works ok. Some fights i win, some fights I loose.
    HOWEVER.... the exceptions are Wargs & Reavers (which are the WASTE majority of creeps these days) from my own rank upwards.
    In case they '.. actually know what they are doing...' then they are MUCH faster in interrupting me, than what CtV or parable, or coordination can help me.
    The few times, i actually did defeat them was- when they did mistakes in their rotation, or interruption.
    Some say its the macroing thing, i dont know. But played my LM since 4 years- and i never done so bad against those two.

    Having said this, I do live a little longer in yellow (root and improved heals and debuffs), but also i damage them much less. So solo i still do a bit better in blue.


    52kMastery before or after the Op buffs? also wondering how you got to 22k

    Ergo Summarum:
    Wargs and Reavers together are de facto 80% (or more!) of our Server (guess that equals the percentage of Wardens, Minis and Cappys freepside). Thats also an indicator what classes do best now. The wargs, i rarely meet solo, mostly they are in pack (at least so when they attack).

    We are perhaps 3 LM's left in the Moors, playing at least SOMEWHAT regularily, except for a newbie visit here and there. Thats not a good indicator.
    But we do show our value in groups (especially the War-Leader-Silence and the root with its grace is much appreciated).
    I guess thats what our class also is originally designed for- to support!

    Have fun guys, and happy hunting to you

    /Elbi
    1. you do know you can heal as much in blue line as yellow line if you spend your points right

    2. Honestly theres always a chance to lose but in blue line you should pretty much never lose to a warg and maybe even reaver


    Use tar,sic um,stuns, WL, plus debuffs and they pretty much cant do anything to you
    Last edited by LEGENDofALL; Feb 16 2014 at 09:47 AM.
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  15. #40
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    I wanna come on your server for fight versus this good reaver / warg
    Impale crit + dev strike crit can be 14k damage in one sec ... and ??? What are you doing with 4/5 k morale ???

    How can yellow heal more than blue line ??? Please explain this really ...
    Every crit on you will heal, more flank, reflect while inductions ... 400 morale ...

    When you can do enough damage versus a normal reaver in yellow line ??? Charge give 8 sec of immunity resilience remove your first stun enough fast ... diminishing return can leave you without option of injurity ...

    Disarm can be another Good problem ... and a good spam of interupt leave you with low option ...
    Same for warg ... stun, fear, increase induction time can kill you really fast ...

    At last the best point it's only lucky, if your heal give more crit than Crit's enemy damage will be easy ... no more atm. At last a rever can kill you in 8 sec

  16. #41
    I trait red with enough in blue to reduce my inductions as much as possible. I can't take blue seriously because of how pathetic the aoe options and dps output is. I use a lot of crafted jewelry for morale and sit at just over 20k unbuffed at rank 9. The crafted stuff is very, very nice for pvp. I hardly ever join big groups and just duo 99% of the time with another LM while sticking around other freeps and do just fine. If you want to solo or 1v1 I have nothing to add because I don't play that way. I think LMs are one of the more OP classes if you build yourself up enough to not look like a good target. On my server an LM with 15k morale is a nice looking snack.
    You gotta chill to take it to the next level.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyRogersMcFreely View Post
    I trait red with enough in blue to reduce my inductions as much as possible. I can't take blue seriously because of how pathetic the aoe options and dps output is. I use a lot of crafted jewelry for morale and sit at just over 20k unbuffed at rank 9. The crafted stuff is very, very nice for pvp. I hardly ever join big groups and just duo 99% of the time with another LM while sticking around other freeps and do just fine. If you want to solo or 1v1 I have nothing to add because I don't play that way. I think LMs are one of the more OP classes if you build yourself up enough to not look like a good target. On my server an LM with 15k morale is a nice looking snack.
    I actually sit at 16k and i really dont die unless i put myself in a bad position.

    while 20k is nice theres many options for me why i dont go with health and ive seen others around 20k die before me.
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  18. #43
    is this where i can QQ?

    seriously though guys, is no one angry that the lore master class has not gotten the skill gerbil wave yet? i mean all i'm asking is that i can summon thousands of gerbils to devour the enemy is that so much to ask?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/072060000001aaa8d/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #44
    Hello all I have been focusing my lm recently last week or so on a red line build with enough in yellow to fill out the ancient craft to tier 3. I just started playing my lm and this is the build ive started with. I love it but it is a bit challenging vs wargs. I am curious how other lms are dealing with good wargs that are silencing then silencing right after you pot. That 10 secs of silence is killer for me and I haven't been able to get a good work around it. The damage on LM is really impressive though inductions are taking some getting used to I normally main a champ and not moving while attacking is weird. I doubt ill play blue line for those that enjoy that spec its really not for me I don't enjoy healing my opponents to death in pvp. So if anyone has red line tips or tricks I would appreciate some conversation about them. Thanks all enjoy.
    Formerly Derlan of Arkenstone, Thistlebeard of Crickhollow, Thistlehair of Brandywine. Once again Derlan of Arkenstone. Your Welcome for the $75 WB.

    Auzue, Number (Arkenstone)

  20. #45
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    Wila, make sure after you use a pot for the first silence you have your brand ready.

    Also, always ALWAYS face a warg, they do a ton more damage if you try to run and they keep hitting you in the back.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r9 (active) Mini

  21. #46
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    Raid fights look bad for LMs, from what I can see. So if you want to live most of the time.....look for small fights in Gothrum & HH. Otherwise you'll be one of the first to die. At most my R9 warg is only brought to half morale by LMs I encounter alone so high-rank wargs obviously not worth attacking. Nor ranked Reavers

    If a LM was paired with a Captain that would be dynamite. I forget his name, there was one about a year ago I roamed for 2 or 3 hours, alongside with on my LM. NOTHING killed either of us, even when outnumbered by R5-6 creeps. True, small fights are usually easy for Freeps but I'm sure that's the best option for a LM with a captain-playing friend.
    [B]Hitchens[/B](r9 warg)[B], [/B][B]Glasgow[/B](R9 LM), [B]Lintalthir[/B] (R10 Hunter), [B]Rithun[/B] (R6 Captain) Brandywine server.
    [I]I fought alongside Silverest & Wuffles on Gladden when LOTRO began, nowadays on Brandwyne's PvP [/I]

 

 
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